Why Is There Smoke In Chiang Mai?

[Firelily]

I don't know about stats and figures and WHO guidelines, I just know that every single year this is the best time to get out and ride the mountain roads on a motorcycle, superb crisp clean air and stunning views - this year it is like a completely different landscape, I'm lucky if I see Doi Suthep all the way from Nonghoy.

disappointing.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I don't know about stats and figures and WHO guidelines, I just know that every single year this is the best time to get out and ride the mountain roads on a motorcycle, superb crisp clean air and stunning views - this year it is like a completely different landscape, I'm lucky if I see Doi Suthep all the way from Nonghoy.

disappointing.

"last year" "this year" "some year".. you do realize that the weather changes every couple of days. If it's a bit on the hazy side now, it can be bright clear again in a couple days. That's what weather does.

Let's be in touch in a couple days time.

Edited December 27, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[elektrified]

This has been an awful 2 - 3 weeks where we are,burning day and night in the surrounding area rice fields verges anything and everything it seems and just had to close the doors and windows to try to block out the smell of yet more burning-can see black smoke rising not too far away.

And as for it being an annual event that some seem to think does not warrant discussion, it is unhealthy, dangerous and needs to be brought to peoples attention- whenever it occurs!

Apparently it warranted enough attention to be discussed on the Thai news last night. Some of the plumes of smoke they showed were pure black! Tires or what???

[onthedarkside]

some off topic 'banter' removed

[zziffle]

"last year" "this year" "some year".. you do realize that the weather changes every couple of days. If it's a bit on the hazy side now, it can be bright clear again in a couple days. That's what weather does.

Smoke and other forms of air pollution are not weather.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

"last year" "this year" "some year".. you do realize that the weather changes every couple of days. If it's a bit on the hazy side now, it can be bright clear again in a couple days. That's what weather does.

Smoke and other forms of air pollution are not weather.

Like it or not, weather has an overbearing influence on it. A lot more than whether you see some people burning trash or a field near you or not.

Anyway, that's why you'll see it change over the next couple of weeks, with some hazier periods and some clear periods.

[Thailand]

Just to put this discussion into perspective:

The Thai Pollution Control Department has two standards for Particulate Matter Pollution (PM₁₀):

- The yearly average level should not exceed 50 µg/m^3.

- The daily average should not exceed 120 µg/m³ for any 24-hour period.

This year in Chiang Mai (with four days to go) has had an average level of 33.2 µg/m³. There has not been a single day in excess of 120 µg/m³, in fact the maximum value recorded this year was 92.0 µg/m³. These levels make 2011 the best year on record (pollution-wise).

As concerns the present month the average, at 44.3 µg/m³, has been slightly better than an average December, though not as good as December of last year which was the best on record. There has not been a single observation in excess of 60 µg/m³, i.e. half the PCD standard. In fact, you have to go back to April 6th to find an observation in excess of 60 µg/m3.

This has been an awful 2 - 3 weeks where we are,burning day and night in the surrounding area rice fields verges anything and everything it seems and

As so many people in these discussions, you are mixing up local occurrences and annoyances with seasonal regional air quality. You can't take a look at a neighbor, then add to a topic on seasonal air quality and then go 'oh, this year is worse'. (or better, for that matter.)

Silly me,I thought I could post what I wanted to relevant to the title of the thread:

Why Is There Smoke In Chiang Mai?

Guess I hadn't read the forum rule that applied.

[el jefe]

Just to put this discussion into perspective:

The Thai Pollution Control Department has two standards for Particulate Matter Pollution (PM₁₀):

- The yearly average level should not exceed 50 µg/m^3.

- The daily average should not exceed 120 µg/m³ for any 24-hour period.

This year in Chiang Mai (with four days to go) has had an average level of 33.2 µg/m³. There has not been a single day in excess of 120 µg/m³, in fact the maximum value recorded this year was 92.0 µg/m³. These levels make 2011 the best year on record (pollution-wise).

As concerns the present month the average, at 44.3 µg/m³, has been slightly better than an average December, though not as good as December of last year which was the best on record. There has not been a single observation in excess of 60 µg/m³, i.e. half the PCD standard. In fact, you have to go back to April 6th to find an observation in excess of 60 µg/m3.

/ Priceless

The streak is over. It was 68.6 today.

[Mapguy]

Well, Mr. BB, I hope you have been paying attention, as you promised, rather tongue in cheek. You have indeed learnt something. Thanks to Priceless.

Certainly all of us who have been around a while appreciate how remarkable the last year has been. We didn't need a lot of numbers to realize it, either. It was remarkably clear due (perhaps) to frequent early intermittent rains and a relatively early onset of the rainy season. Rain clears the air. That it happened to become a record good year is not surprising, but it is interesting.

Priceless has nailed it down with the best available data (numbers). I wrote best available because measurement is truly sketchy and difficult, but as Priceless has said before, you go with the best data you've got. From year to year in recent years, the numbers are probably decent enough for statistical comparison.

But it is indeed becoming hazier with air pollution. Yes, burning has indeed begun --- and that is NOT unusual for late December. I have seen a very noticeable smoky blanket over the valley from the peak of Doi Inthanon in late December in previous years. The same happened last year, but burning was snuffed out a few times by showers. In any case, for whatever reason, it was a remarkable year.

The comments above about plowing instead of burning are roughly correct. If you look on the PCD web site, you will find (in Thai) that the former is agriculturally preferable. But it is apparently more expensive, and it is hard to change traditional farming and land clearing practices.

For more information --- a LOT more information --- there are numerous threads on Thai Visa stretching back a number of years. They include good references as well as idle speculation. Or you can do some decent searching elsewhere.

The weather and agricultural burning are not, of course, the only sources of the problem. The urban vehicular pollution as well as local trash and charcoal burnin) are contributors. Fortunately, Chiang Mai is not a major industrial area.

Let's be thankful for an unusually fine year, hope and work for the best. Because, quite simply, that dirty air isn't good for anyone regardless of how sensitive they might be to it. It is worth beating the drum to encourage improving the situation.

[elektrified]

Today, there is so much burning in Sansai that there ashes all over my front yard. The stench is unbelievable and the air is thick.

Yesterday I was in Rimping and saw an older farang guy in there who I have seen many times before and I'm sure others have too as he is in there every day; if not one Rimping then another. The Thais really get a kick out seeing him! He paces around Rimping in a very animated manner selecting his vegetables and so forth. He wears a large grey respirator mask that looks like something the U.S. military would wear in Iraq with thick straps around his head and neck. Yesterday I noticed he added a pair of thin profile, military looking dark goggles to his anti-pollution garb. He looks like an alien now. I do have to wonder why someone would choose to live in C.M. if they are so affected by the air quality?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There's weirdos people with a mental health condition everywhere.

Best to let them be.

Edited December 29, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[junglechef]

Went to a local pulmonologist as my pregnant GF is having a real hard time breathing, and I'm feeling it the worst ever. We live in San Sai and the sky is grey w/smoke. We discussed all this and his opinion is that the readings that are posted are not accurate.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There is no station in San Sai. Again, the stations are not for measuring local events, such as burning next door.

If I start a BBQ and stand right next to it then I would get high readings for that specific location too, but I would not see that reflected in the measuring station reports from Mae Rim.

[MESmith]

There is no station in San Sai. Again, the stations are not for measuring local events, such as burning next door.

If I start a BBQ and stand right next to it then I would get high readings for that specific location too, but I would not see that reflected in the measuring station reports from Mae Rim.

We're not talking about "local events". Reports are from all around the CM valley. Air quality is really bad. Ignore the govt figures. I drive around a large sector between Saraphi & Mae on. It's sh1t.

[PoodMaiDai]

I see the haze but it doesn't bother my breathing or eyes at all. Probably killing me internally, but I don't feel it. Yet.

This is my first burn season in CM, so I'm not sure what to expect for the upcoming "bigger" burn season. Worse than this or about the same?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I see the haze but it doesn't bother my breathing or eyes at all. Probably killing me internally, but I don't feel it. Yet.

This is my first burn season in CM, so I'm not sure what to expect for the upcoming "bigger" burn season. Worse than this or about the same?

This is nothing; completely par for the course. It goes up and down a bit as the winds and weather changes.

As for March, it depends. Past year there virtually wasn't any hazy season. But if it's a bad year then there will be days that it looks like we're on Mars. You could travel to Chiang Rai or Mae Hong Son to experience the worst of it.

[Mapguy]

Went to a local pulmonologist as my pregnant GF is having a real hard time breathing, and I'm feeling it the worst ever. We live in San Sai and the sky is grey w/smoke. We discussed all this and his opinion is that the readings that are posted are not accurate.

Very sorry to hear that you and your girl friend are so sorely afflicted. Apparently, San Sai has been particularly bad of late. You might have seriously to consider moving. But you might have misunderstood your physician, or he is wrong.

There is no reason to seriously doubt the veracity of the two readings reported regularly in Chiang Mai, but you have to realize that those readings are the only ones published regularly for the entire province! One station is located in town; the other in the regional governmental complex. To compare, Bangkok has eight stations (which isn't a lot, either, for a major metropolitan area).

You just can't take that data (the best we have) as an accurate reflection of the situation across the whole city, let alone the province. The information collected and analysed by Priceless is not seriously misleading when combined with simple observation over time and combining it with what your eyes and nose tell you (understanding some people are bothered more than others).

I am appreciative of the astonishing amount of time and effort Priceless has put into his "hobby." This past year might indeed have been the most pleasant on record (as he has posted above) given the limited measurement data that are available. After several years here, I believe that what Priceless has reported is useful. It pretty much agrees with general observation. But you have to understand the limitations of his conclusions and not be overwhelmed given the limited data he has to work with.

[nikster]

I too was wondering about the early haze.

The way I see it is so: 2011 was the best year in a long time in March/April. Meaning a lot of stuff that normally burns during that time of the year didn't burn. So now they're catching up - it's gotta burn at some point, right?

IMO it's crazy to say that everything is fine with the burning. It's very obviously not OK; just walk through CM - or anywhere in northern Thailand - in the dry season and look around you - everyone's coughing. I wonder why that is? The kids catch pneumonia every year; same now, lots of runny noses, coughs, and antibiotics all around. All the kids at school had one form of lung disease or another. I don't remember that when I was growing up... I caught it once in 25 years growing up in Vienna, Austria.

The problem is spread over a large area, Burma, northern and eastern Thailand, and Laos. From Chiang Mai, you have to drive halfway to Bangkok before the air gets better. Therefore it's not the cars or the korean barbecues or anything else local to Chiang Mai.

I remember driving out of Pai in 2009 or 2010... Pai valley is a lush jungle valley near the burmese border, it's all trees, and pastures, and very small villages.... visibility that March was around 100m when we left. It was like driving through a bonfire, except it was everywhere, no escape. Mountains were on fire all the way towards CM... the air slowly got better once we passed Tak, 3 hours south of CM. And everything is OK??

Edited December 30, 2011 by nikster

[nikster]

Went to a local pulmonologist as my pregnant GF is having a real hard time breathing, and I'm feeling it the worst ever. We live in San Sai and the sky is grey w/smoke. We discussed all this and his opinion is that the readings that are posted are not accurate.

Pregnant GF? What are you still doing here? Go to the seaside. Opinions are just that, everyone has one, but if your GF has difficulty breathing then get the hell out of here. Or at least send her somewhere near the ocean.

[ogb]

Agree with Nikster that is is not only a localized problem, and its hard to see it ever getting any better when even (many) farang here are in denial and kidding themselves that there is not a problem.

Even if the Thai got their act together, what about the surrounding countries?

btw, that's a very big IF

(has anyone noticed that riding a motorbike without a helmet is illegal?)

[Priceless]

Agree with Nikster that is is not only a localized problem, and its hard to see it ever getting any better when even (many) farang here are in denial and kidding themselves that there is not a problem.

Even if the Thai got their act together, what about the surrounding countries?

btw, that's a very big IF

(has anyone noticed that riding a motorbike without a helmet is illegal?)

If you look at the graph in post #29 above, you'll see that the trend for average yearly pollution has fallen by more than a third since mid-2004. I call that getting significantly better, but you may define the word "better" differently.

/ Priceless

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Aaaaandddd so this topic moves to page 2. Let's recap some comments, shall we:

------------------------

Ignore the govt statistics or pm data from some site they probably have sprinklers all around to clean the air, take a drive around the countryside outside of CM. It is f*cking sh1t. Smoke everywhere, kids can't play outside. It's a freaking burnfest.

I have seen far more burning this past two months than I did during a similar period last year. One day they'll understand that burning is not the way to get rid of waste (burning plastic and rubber last week by the Mae Ping) or a practical solution to the clearing of rice fields, overgrown verges and so on. It makes me angry every time I see this ........

-------

And here is what actually happened. And just as I already mentioned several times, it's a periodical dip. Over the next weeks there will be very clear days and some hazy days.

So this is not new, this always happens. It would be a freak scenario if it didn't occur. For over a decade when I recommend visitors what to see and do around Chiang Mai this time of year, I recommend to 'wait for a clear day' to visit Doi Suthep: "wait until you can clearly see the temple from town, then you will also have a good view in the opposite direction once up there."

But don't take my word for it; let's compare this time of year (mid winter) with previous years. I take the first PM-10 reading over 60, i.e. half the limit used by the PCD:

This year: 28-Dec: 68.6

2010/2011: 01-Jan: 70.7 [Which turned into the best year on record]

2009/2010: 14-Dec: 66.8

2008/2009: Nothing!! [but then this turned into a fairly nasty year with bad readings early March.]

2007/2008: 20-Nov 74.3 [ So this is already in NOVEMBER]

2006/2007: 23-Dec 77.6

So as you can see, nothing at all out of the ordinary is happening. I already knew that of course when I read the following, but I had to wait for the spell to drop off before presenting the information:

I don't know about stats and figures and WHO guidelines, I just know that every single year this is the best time to get out and ride the mountain roads on a motorcycle, superb crisp clean air and stunning views - this year it is like a completely different landscape,

The human mind and how it handles memory is a beautiful thing. Anyway, I'm sure we'll do this one again at least one more time somewhere in Feb/March.

Edited January 1, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[scotbeve]

All of the burning is from the mass vegetation that grew from all the rain we accumulated during the rainy months. I have a large piece of property to tend to and it is quite amazing how fast it grows with that extra rain. Previous years we hadn't gotten that much.

I usually get a small army of folks with weed hackers - it works. And when the vegetation starts rotting, we have them drag it over to our rubber trees or teak trees - this also works well - especially before the "hot season"... costs only a bit more but people are JUST starting (after 25 yrs. in the area) to get an idea that that unburnt vegetation is fertilizer...