Retirement Visa Extention

[chiang mai]

Made an appointment to extend my OA visa in Chiang Mai using the online reservation system, that part went well.

Showed up 15 minutes early and was allowed straight in, no waiting - it's worth noting that the Immigration Office was almost empty at 3pm so no waiting for anyone.

Despite having a bar code in my passport I was still required to provide photocopies of the relevant pages which this time around included photocopies of ALL previous visa extentions in my passport, this was a new one for me.

Was asked to provide a copy of the lease agreement for my condo in order to confirm my address. I pointed out that I had notified Immigration of my change of address when I moved from Phuket in June last year and that I had reconfirmed it during three subsequent 90 day reports! I also pointed out that my current address appears at the top of each page of the twelve bank statements from HSBC that I had provided. No good, they wanted to see my lease agreement hence I had to go home and get it.

Having satisfied all of the above my passport was stamped and returned to me in under 30 minutes, excluding the time taken for the trip home to collect my lease.

As always the process works well, if you know exactly what items they want to see. A short discussion with the captain on the differences between documentation requirements at the different offices around Thailand confirms that each office may vary the offical requirements, depending on the person in charge.

[uptheos]

"A short discussion with the captain on the differences between documentation requirements at the different offices around Thailand confirms that each office may vary the offical requirements, depending on the person in charge".

Yeah, they really help to make the process run smoothly!

[Mapguy]

One does wonder, doesn't one! But the officer does have discretionary authority.To be forewarned is to be forearmed! Thank you, CM!

I once spent extra time at the photocopy shop, as well, imaging the previous extensions. Fortunately, I have never had to return home for documentation.

Such authority is not unusual among officials in similar positions in most countries. I wouldn't be terribly critical of Thai immigration officials, especially considering the license people take in meeting the requirements of non-immigrant visas of various kinds, including --- as is broadly known --- retirement visas here in Thailand. Perhaps the scattershot checking evident from various posts here over the years is a form of random spot checking.

[Lancelot]

One does wonder, doesn't one! But the officer does have discretionary authority.To be forewarned is to be forearmed! Thank you, CM!

I once spent extra time at the photocopy shop, as well, imaging the previous extensions. Fortunately, I have never had to return home for documentation.

Such authority is not unusual among officials in similar positions in most countries. I wouldn't be terribly critical of Thai immigration officials, especially considering the license people take in meeting the requirements of non-immigrant visas of various kinds, including --- as is broadly known --- retirement visas here in Thailand. Perhaps the scattershot checking evident from various posts here over the years is a form of random spot checking.

I started going to one of those 50 satang per copy placces and getting my entire pass port copied. Like others have pointed out, the required copies seems to change for year to year, at the whim of the Immigration Officer...

[uptheos]

Like others have pointed out, the required copies seems to change for year to year, at the whim of the Immigration Officer...

......and it should not!

But if a bit of power lights up their life, then I guess it's OK.

[chiang mai]

Just one more thing here: I'd posted my experience in the OP for the benefit of CM ex-pats because I felt there was sufficent variation from my previous CM visa extention experience that folks needed to be made aware, the copying of all previous visa's and the need to provide a copy your lease in particular. I also wanted to emphasise that the reservation system appears to work well and is owrth using.

[hellodolly]

Just one more thing here: I'd posted my experience in the OP for the benefit of CM ex-pats because I felt there was sufficent variation from my previous CM visa extension experience that folks needed to be made aware, the copying of all previous visa's and the need to provide a copy your lease in particular. I also wanted to emphasise that the reservation system appears to work well and is owrth using.

I was under the understanding that for a marriage visa you needed a copy of the lease.

In the many threads on this topic in the past this is the first time I have heard of the need for a lease on a retirement visa or copies of all the previous extensions. I believe I need a copy of the last extension but not all of the ones in the last 6 years.

Looking forward to see if other posters have had this problem.

[uptheos]

Just one more thing here: I'd posted my experience in the OP for the benefit of CM ex-pats because I felt there was sufficent variation from my previous CM visa extension experience that folks needed to be made aware, the copying of all previous visa's and the need to provide a copy your lease in particular. I also wanted to emphasise that the reservation system appears to work well and is owrth using.

I was under the understanding that for a marriage visa you needed a copy of the lease.

In the many threads on this topic in the past this is the first time I have heard of the need for a lease on a retirement visa or copies of all the previous extensions. I believe I need a copy of the last extension but not all of the ones in the last 6 years.

Looking forward to see if other posters have had this problem.

Is there any law that says a retired person must live in one place with a lease?

What if a person wants to spend his/her retirement fund travelling around all the time?

[purushanti]

With reference to post number one, and the bringing of 12 bank statements (presumably monthly statements), is that a requirement in Chingmai, that many? My experience with an officer in BKK, who had had little experience with retirement issues, took the 3 bank statements I had put on the table, just to be safe from her side. Is there a set total here?. I do not want to help set the bar too high!

And if we bring bank statements, it would be logical not to need a letter from a consulate. But still required, right?

[onthedarkside]

Is there any law that says a retired person must live in one place with a lease?

What if a person wants to spend his/her retirement fund travelling around all the time?

A retirement visa only requires proof of pension income or money in the bank. No need for any lease details. As for a marriage visa I have never had to supply any lease information.

[TommoPhysicist]

Is there any law that says a retired person must live in one place with a lease?

What if a person wants to spend his/her retirement fund travelling around all the time?

A retirement visa only requires proof of pension income or money in the bank. No need for any lease details. As for a marriage visa I have never had to supply any lease information.

Yet they asked for mine only last week when I renewed my marriage extension (and my children's birth certificates).

I always take all the paperwork I have with me, just in case ....

[Semper]

One does wonder, doesn't one! But the officer does have discretionary authority.To be forewarned is to be forearmed! Thank you, CM!

I once spent extra time at the photocopy shop, as well, imaging the previous extensions. Fortunately, I have never had to return home for documentation.

Such authority is not unusual among officials in similar positions in most countries. I wouldn't be terribly critical of Thai immigration officials, especially considering the license people take in meeting the requirements of non-immigrant visas of various kinds, including --- as is broadly known --- retirement visas here in Thailand. Perhaps the scattershot checking evident from various posts here over the years is a form of random spot checking.

I started going to one of those 50 satang per copy placces and getting my entire pass port copied. Like others have pointed out, the required copies seems to change for year to year, at the whim of the Immigration Officer...

I mentioned the same in a similar thread a few months ago, and was called a cheap charlie after that post.

[chiang mai]

Just one more thing here: I'd posted my experience in the OP for the benefit of CM ex-pats because I felt there was sufficent variation from my previous CM visa extension experience that folks needed to be made aware, the copying of all previous visa's and the need to provide a copy your lease in particular. I also wanted to emphasise that the reservation system appears to work well and is owrth using.

I was under the understanding that for a marriage visa you needed a copy of the lease.

In the many threads on this topic in the past this is the first time I have heard of the need for a lease on a retirement visa or copies of all the previous extensions. I believe I need a copy of the last extension but not all of the ones in the last 6 years.

Looking forward to see if other posters have had this problem.

I can only report my experiences of last week and describe what was asked for, I also was surprised.

[chiang mai]

Is there any law that says a retired person must live in one place with a lease?

What if a person wants to spend his/her retirement fund travelling around all the time?

A retirement visa only requires proof of pension income or money in the bank. No need for any lease details. As for a marriage visa I have never had to supply any lease information.

I'm sorry but that was what was asked of me, as I described it in the OP, once again, I awas also very surprised.

[chiang mai]

With reference to post number one, and the bringing of 12 bank statements (presumably monthly statements), is that a requirement in Chingmai, that many? My experience with an officer in BKK, who had had little experience with retirement issues, took the 3 bank statements I had put on the table, just to be safe from her side. Is there a set total here?. I do not want to help set the bar too high!

And if we bring bank statements, it would be logical not to need a letter from a consulate. But still required, right?

I have always supplied my twelve monthly bank statements because that is what I was asked for several years ago, it has become a habit with me and heads off any request for them if I don't supply them. I use the 800k in the bank method and bank with HSBC BKK hence the statements are my only source of proof of funds and expenditure. I think the need for them to see the entire year stemmed from several years ago when some people were playing games with the 800k, borrowing it and then repaying it after the visa was granted - it also has something to do with them wanting to see that you are actually spending money in Thailand etc.

The consulate letter is based on the income approach and that is still needed for that approach, as is the bank letter with the 800k approach, despite having supplied all twelve statements, I never said any of this is logical!

Finally, I think the key statement in all of this is that Immigration admits that rules vary from office to office and doubtless they will vary from person to person within an office, if they so choose.

[Jingthing]

No "need" to show a full year's bank activity for 800K qualifiers. Normally, people should not supply any more than what is actually needed (assuming you can figure that out). The "money seasoning" rules were indeed put into place to thwart people getting short term loans for the bank method. Two months for first extension, three months for subsequent. There is absolutely no requirement at all to spend even one baht of the 800K baht in any given year.

[uptheos]

With reference to post number one, and the bringing of 12 bank statements (presumably monthly statements), is that a requirement in Chingmai, that many? My experience with an officer in BKK, who had had little experience with retirement issues, took the 3 bank statements I had put on the table, just to be safe from her side. Is there a set total here?. I do not want to help set the bar too high!

And if we bring bank statements, it would be logical not to need a letter from a consulate. But still required, right?

I have always supplied my twelve monthly bank statements because that is what I was asked for several years ago, it has become a habit with me and heads off any request for them if I don't supply them. I use the 800k in the bank method and bank with HSBC BKK hence the statements are my only source of proof of funds and expenditure. I think the need for them to see the entire year stemmed from several years ago when some people were playing games with the 800k, borrowing it and then repaying it after the visa was granted - it also has something to do with them wanting to see that you are actually spending money in Thailand etc.

The consulate letter is based on the income approach and that is still needed for that approach, as is the bank letter with the 800k approach, despite having supplied all twelve statements, I never said any of this is logical!

Finally, I think the key statement in all of this is that Immigration admits that rules vary from office to office and doubtless they will vary from person to person within an office, if they so choose.

Good post, but I don't think that it is anywhere written in immigration law, that you need to show that you spend one baht in Thailand, as long as you show the required income as required by immigration law.

However an immigration officer wanting a bit of power might make an issue out of it, but he/she will not be acting according to Thai immigration law......(I think)

Edited April 28, 2012 by uptheos

[Jingthing]

Correct. There is nothing in the rules requiring:

-- spending even one baht

-- transferring in even one baht

-- proving the transfers are internationally sourced

I use a passbook at Jomtien and I used to give them a years history of the passbook. I stopped doing that after an officer rudely threw the pages with the older history back at me. They don't need a year's history.

The rules do require the amount being at least 800K and properly seasoned.

Of course, sometimes the officers MAY ask how you get your spending money if they see a static account. So in that case, have an answer and make sure its a legal one ...

Edited April 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

So much talk about "the rules" here, as if understanding what's written in them will allow a visa applicant to challenge or refuse a request for an additional unspecified document or not answer logical questions when the officer asks at the time of the extention. As JT points out, it's logical to expect that a retiree will spend money in the course of living here so why not head off the need for that question to be asked in the first place.

Ditto the need to supply a copy of your lease or to otherwise prove your place of residence, that requirement is not in "the rules" yet two posters in this thread have been asked for such. It's not a big deal, if "the rules" get modified by individual officers at different locations, Immigration already admits this happens and we all know it does hence it shouldn't come as a shock. All you have to do is to be aware and be prepared to respond, as one poster put it, take everything with you to the renewal appointment, just in case it is asked for.

[uptheos]

So much talk about "the rules" here, as if understanding what's written in them will allow a visa applicant to challenge or refuse a request for an additional unspecified document or not answer logical questions when the officer asks at the time of the extention. As JT points out, it's logical to expect that a retiree will spend money in the course of living here so why not head off the need for that question to be asked in the first place.

Ditto the need to supply a copy of your lease or to otherwise prove your place of residence, that requirement is not in "the rules" yet two posters in this thread have been asked for such. It's not a big deal, if "the rules" get modified by individual officers at different locations, Immigration already admits this happens and we all know it does hence it shouldn't come as a shock. All you have to do is to be aware and be prepared to respond, as one poster put it, take everything with you to the renewal appointment, just in case it is asked for.

Can a retiree say he's supported entirely by his Thai wife as long as he meets the 800k criteria?

[chiang mai]

So much talk about "the rules" here, as if understanding what's written in them will allow a visa applicant to challenge or refuse a request for an additional unspecified document or not answer logical questions when the officer asks at the time of the extention. As JT points out, it's logical to expect that a retiree will spend money in the course of living here so why not head off the need for that question to be asked in the first place.

Ditto the need to supply a copy of your lease or to otherwise prove your place of residence, that requirement is not in "the rules" yet two posters in this thread have been asked for such. It's not a big deal, if "the rules" get modified by individual officers at different locations, Immigration already admits this happens and we all know it does hence it shouldn't come as a shock. All you have to do is to be aware and be prepared to respond, as one poster put it, take everything with you to the renewal appointment, just in case it is asked for.

Can a retiree say he's supported entirely by his Thai wife as long as he meets the 800k criteria?

I don't see why not. But to play devils advocate for a moment and to try to look at things from an Immigration perspective, could they, would they, ask for proof of earnings/ability to support from her? I would guess not but it's not impossible to imagine that they might.

[Sophon]

Ditto the need to supply a copy of your lease or to otherwise prove your place of residence, that requirement is not in "the rules" yet two posters in this thread have been asked for such.

Actually, it is in the rules (indirectly). The rules says you can only get the extension at the immigration office servicing the area where you live. So it's doesn't seem unreasonable to me if the immigration officer ask for proof that you live in his "district".

Sophon

[Lifer]

No experience with leasing or renting, but I do know that for 14 years a married extension required a copy of the blue book including the pages your child is listed if you own the house you live in. Makes sense if you rent they want to see something verifying your place of residence.

People don't fight the requirements, just go prepared by taking more than you think they will ask for and have it all in order to give to them. You will have a problem free processing experience. Posters seem to fight everything they don't think they should provide. You will always lose the battle.

[uptheos]

People don't fight the requirements, just go prepared by taking more than you think they will ask for and have it all in order to give to them. You will have a problem free processing experience. Posters seem to fight everything they don't think they should provide. You will always lose the battle.

Yes for sure to be safe and some people do in fact take everything but the kitchen sink and sit waiting....trembling.

As much as I despise immigration - I don't ever recall having to come back for anything and I only take what I need. But just because I haven't had a problem doesn't mean they get off the hook lightly - I've seen them be downright rude to some very elderly folk, who I personally know are nice people.

[Jingthing]

I still stand by the advice to give them exactly what you think is required, and not one thing more. Of course, its a good idea to be prepared to give more IF asked, but really, you usually will not be asked. I don't consider this tactic to be "fighting" the requirements at all. The opposite, actually. Comply fully but no need for OVERKILL.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[hellodolly]

So much talk about "the rules" here, as if understanding what's written in them will allow a visa applicant to challenge or refuse a request for an additional unspecified document or not answer logical questions when the officer asks at the time of the extention. As JT points out, it's logical to expect that a retiree will spend money in the course of living here so why not head off the need for that question to be asked in the first place.

Ditto the need to supply a copy of your lease or to otherwise prove your place of residence, that requirement is not in "the rules" yet two posters in this thread have been asked for such. It's not a big deal, if "the rules" get modified by individual officers at different locations, Immigration already admits this happens and we all know it does hence it shouldn't come as a shock. All you have to do is to be aware and be prepared to respond, as one poster put it, take everything with you to the renewal appointment, just in case it is asked for.

I agree with what you have said here.

I would like to add that the applicants attitude can effect what is asked for. Just as the staff have bad days and get a little picky . Not saying or implying you had a bad attitude but from some of the posters attitude I can see why they would be asked for information not required.

I use the monthly allowance and have my letter from the US consulate plus other stuff not sure what, (the wife knows and photo copies it) before we go. I shall as you have suggested do the same with the lease from now on.

Talking about attitude both my self and another applicant stood by the number 5 window for over a hour talking. We were way down the list. we never made one actuzational statement talked about taking time for new systems to work and in general a very good conversation.

Noon hit and the fellow I had been talking to was next in line I was one behind him. The staff could hear every thing we said. Noon came up and he looked at us and said you and you. He worked into his lunch time for us.

[hellodolly]

I still stand by the advice to give them exactly what you think is required, and not one thing more. Of course, its a good idea to be prepared to give more IF asked, but really, you usually will not be asked. I don't consider this tactic to be "fighting" the requirements at all. The opposite, actually. Comply fully but no need for OVERKILL.

I agree I use the certificate of guaranteed income from the US consulate. And I do take the proof of the earnings with me even though they never ask I do have them at hand and in the future I will have a copy of the rental agreement. In case they ask for it.

Edited April 28, 2012 by hellodolly

[uptheos]

He worked into his lunch time for us.

I thought they had started a system working between noon and one.

If this is the case he just did what he supposed to.

[uptheos]

I still stand by the advice to give them exactly what you think is required, and not one thing more. Of course, its a good idea to be prepared to give more IF asked, but really, you usually will not be asked. I don't consider this tactic to be "fighting" the requirements at all. The opposite, actually. Comply fully but no need for OVERKILL.

I agree I use the certificate of guaranteed income from the US consulate. And I do take the proof of the earnings with me even though they never ask I do have them at hand and in the future I will have a copy of the rental agreement. In case they ask for it.

You're lucky, you obviously don't remember the days when old guys turned up with their petite 19 year old wives, carrying more gifts than the three bloody wise men. That's how scared many were regarding their visa renewal and I think that's where carrying everything in but the kitchen sink started.

[hellodolly]

I still stand by the advice to give them exactly what you think is required, and not one thing more. Of course, its a good idea to be prepared to give more IF asked, but really, you usually will not be asked. I don't consider this tactic to be "fighting" the requirements at all. The opposite, actually. Comply fully but no need for OVERKILL.

I agree I use the certificate of guaranteed income from the US consulate. And I do take the proof of the earnings with me even though they never ask I do have them at hand and in the future I will have a copy of the rental agreement. In case they ask for it.

You're lucky, you obviously don't remember the days when old guys turned up with their petite 19 year old wives, carrying more gifts than the three bloody wise men. That's how scared many were regarding their visa renewal and I think that's where carrying everything in but the kitchen sink started.

Seems like some people are still living there.

As I said in a earlier post attitude can make a big difference most of the time some days the staff just have a bad day.

Just because they have some one working through lunch does not mean he had to do it. If he had to work through lunch why would he just not light up the next number? You seem to have a real hate on for them. Seems to me with the number of posts you put up you have lots of time to go in every 90 days.

Heck it is a outing for us go there then up to the mall do some shopping or watch a movie. I have met some very nice people there the times I had to wait. No big deal for a retiree. The most time I ever had to put in was three hours and that was for the yearly renewal.

Just because a person is nice to them does not guarantee any thing. Many of them can feel the superiority attitude some posters carry for them.