Thailand Remains Major Centre For Human Trafficking

[Yunla]

We all sell our bodies one way or another - the man digging holes in the road is selling his muscle, the managing director is selling his brain - so why do we see only sex as somethign different to other bodily functions. Each persons body belongs to them and they are entitled to use is in any way they wish to their best advantage.

I totally disagree. You don't sell your brain, you slowly train it to become a useful tool in professional fields, it is not something that you are born with (unlike sex). Manual labour too, is a skilled craft which you have to train for, again unlike sex you are not born with the skills for manual labour. And also in those jobs you are unlikely to get AIDS at work, or murdered and dumped in a car trunk.

Generally speaking selling your sex is a last resort in Asia, it is not a professional decision or a lifestyle choice (in most cases), it is usually either because you are forced into it by gangs or because you have no other worthwhile options on the table. This is a socioeconomic problem, it has roots in poor education and weak jobs markets. Thailand has areas where education is very poor, money is very short and good jobs are impossible to find. That is where prostitutes are generated.

That is why countries with universal welfare, meritocratic employment and free high-quality education, have extremely low prostitution rates and zero-tolerance to paedophilia. These things are the mark of a more affluent and well-educated society than Thailand is. Human trafficking also flourishes in countries with rampant corruption, of which Thailand is a world leader. Human trafficked prostitutes are entirely slaves controlled by gangs and have no choice in it whatsoever.

Also Thailand is next to China which has slave-labour camps, and organ-harvesting of dissidents, these are the final null-point of human trafficking, when humans are reduced literally to meat. Hopefully we will never see that here, and hopefully future Thai governments will increase the living standards and education of the poorest Thais, so that human rights can be protected and prostitution will become just another job option, rather than as it often is today, literallly the 'only way out'.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yunla

[samsiam]

(if operating in the sex trade can be deemed as proper in the first place).

Why is it not proper ??

Nothing wrong with the sex trade as long as it is operated properly and legally.

Pay for sex is a service that usually, if carried out correctly, offers both parties and solution to their problems and should be nobodies business but theirs.

Human Trafficking and Slavery means a person is Forced to do things and/or Held against their Will. In the case of the Prostitution Industry I think many People would be surprised just how many of them are doing so Willingly! Of Course once they are caught they Claim They were forced into it!!! Take a look around all the Bars and massage parlours, Do they look like they are Unhappy or being forced to do it??? I think not! Don't believe everything (or anything) We are told!

Most of the die hard trafficking and sexual slavery type operations would be within the Thai industry, not the farang scene. So what you see is nothing in comparison and while what you see may not always be nice, the vast majority cannot be classed as slavery or trafficking.

Certainly some moral corruption is there...but it takes 2 to tango.

Screw the crimes against foreign tourist and murders, trafficking of young children between 11 - 15 years if age is perhaps the lowest form of human existence. Does not get any lower than pedophilia and sex industry involving young trafficked children.

Absolutely.....and this is where the real concentration is required.

15yo girls that may or may not have been coerced/traded/trafficked or whatever that are rescued and then return to their jobs later are a waste of resources.

When funds are not coming from bottomless buckets....a choice to fund the exploitation of under 13yo kids or older kids....the younger ones need to be given the priority every time without question.

[ttelise]

Where do the majority of pattaya parlours customers come from?

Doesn't matter. Happening in Thai soil, Thai authorities turning the other way, so it's a Thailand problem.

[ttelise]

We all sell our bodies one way or another - the man digging holes in the road is selling his muscle, the managing director is selling his brain - so why do we see only sex as somethign different to other bodily functions. Each persons body belongs to them and they are entitled to use is in any way they wish to their best advantage.

I don't agree at all. You don't sell your brain, you slowly train it to become useful in professional fields, it is not something that you are born with (unlike sex). Manual labour too, is a skilled craft which you have to train for, again unlike sex you are not born with the skills for manual labour. And also in those jobs you are unlikely to get AIDS at work, or murdered and dumped in a car trunk.

Generally speaking selling your sex is a last resort in Asia, it is not a preofessional decision or a lifestyle choice (in most cases), it is usually either because you are forced into it by gangs or because you have no other worthwhile options on the table. This is a socioeconomic problem, it has roots in poor education and weak jobs markets and poorly stratified salary structures. Thailand has areas where education is very poor, money is very short and good jobs are impossible to find. That is where prostitutes are generated.

That is why countries with universal welfare, meritocratic employment and free high-quality education, have extremely low prostitution rates and zero-tolerance to paedophilia. These things are the mark of a more affluent and well-educated society than Thailand is. Human trafficking also flourishes in countries with rampant corruption, of which Thailand is a world leader. Human trafficked prostitutes are entirely slaves controlled by gangs and have no choice in it whatsoever.

Also Thailand is next to China which has slave-labour camps, and organ-harvesting of dissidents, these are the final null-point of human trafficking, when humans are reduced literally to meat. Hopefully we will never see that here, and hopefully future Thai governments will increase the living standards and education of the poorest so that human rights can be protected and prostitution will become just another job option, rather than as it often is today, literallly the 'only way out'.

Yeah, guy is either a sicko or just in serious denial. His logic would be let people shoot drugs as they should becabke to do with their body as they please if it gets them off.

Also, he would apparently endorse murder and torture if victim or victim's family consents as some people get off by killing or causing other's pain. Lots of mis wired sickos out there who se malfunctions should not be used to define what society deems acceptable.

Irregardless, society has a heightened duty to protect children and those particularly vulnerable.

[NanLaew]

Of all the criticisms that could be made against the BiB, this one would represent the worst. These people are operating right below the nose of the Bib, and even if the slave traders manage to secret them into the country, the whereabouts of the Brothels will be known to the BiB.

To allow slavery to take place below your nose is an abrogation of your responsibility as a member of the human race. To be in the position that the BiB are to potentially profit from the tea money paid by slave traders make's you worse than them.

It's not human trafficking...............it's slave trading, and the BiB have a high responsibility for it.

Yes but the victims aren't Thai so it is a non-issue.

Now, if some American or German of [insert any farang nationality] is caught running a 'brothel' where Thai maidenhood is being plundered, then they take this very seriously.... and leave the Thai-operated brothel alone.

[brianP]

Sex rears it's ugly head. I think anybody that needs to pay someone for sexual activity is a dysfunctional inept total loser.

[hellodolly]

I have marked JurgenG's post (#8) as an I Like because he is addressing the other side of the coin. Because a bar or a go-go is "Falang" managed, doesn't mean it is run properly (if operating in the sex trade can be deemed as proper in the first place).

If the girl (or boy or in-betwwen for that matter) is wearing a number, they are fair game as far as the customer is concerned. We don't know the girl's/boy's story, don't know if they were coerced into the situation they find themselves in or if it is a voluntary decision.

The above statement doesn't mean I condone these places, what I am trying to say is think before you comment on this subject as you may be unknowingly contributing to it.

EDIT: It is a far more complicated issue than it first appears, and an even harder one to stop!

I heard a fellow from a NGO that tries to help these people out. Part of his talk was about the difficulties getting the government to do some thing when they find people in the trade.

Also their are a lot of people in it who were rescued and just turned around and came back to it. Apparently the living condition they are being sent back to make the conditions here look good by comparison.

I am not a proponent of human trafficking but I do believe that there are conditions people live in that most of the do gooders here have no idea of and would deny them if they were staring them in the face.

[hellodolly]

People talk about Thailand, but it is possible that one of the countries most involved in traficking of humans in USA. The USA has millions of alians that were brought across the sothern border, and the government is doing nothing. When states try to slow the flow of illigals the federal government punishes them.

You know nothing about human trafficking or the conditions in the states. All the individual states dos is stop any mexican walking down the street and ask to see his papers. Do you have your passport with you at all times? Are you stopped for just walking down thew street and asked for your identification.

Human trafficking is when they are promised a good job and then sold into slavery of one kind or another. And yes there is a lot of it here. But it is not to the bad extent some would have us believe. The truth is a lot of those people complaining don't care about the people being trafficked they are just trying to imposing there western morals on people they know nothing about.

My mother devout Catholic was strongly against abortion. But she refused to protest she said if you feel that strongly about it help the unwanted child when it is born. Don't just parade around telling others what to do.

[hellodolly]

We all sell our bodies one way or another - the man digging holes in the road is selling his muscle, the managing director is selling his brain - so why do we see only sex as somethign different to other bodily functions. Each persons body belongs to them and they are entitled to use is in any way they wish to their best advantage.

I totally disagree. You don't sell your brain, you slowly train it to become a useful tool in professional fields, it is not something that you are born with (unlike sex). Manual labour too, is a skilled craft which you have to train for, again unlike sex you are not born with the skills for manual labour. And also in those jobs you are unlikely to get AIDS at work, or murdered and dumped in a car trunk.

Generally speaking selling your sex is a last resort in Asia, it is not a professional decision or a lifestyle choice (in most cases), it is usually either because you are forced into it by gangs or because you have no other worthwhile options on the table. This is a socioeconomic problem, it has roots in poor education and weak jobs markets. Thailand has areas where education is very poor, money is very short and good jobs are impossible to find. That is where prostitutes are generated.

That is why countries with universal welfare, meritocratic employment and free high-quality education, have extremely low prostitution rates and zero-tolerance to paedophilia. These things are the mark of a more affluent and well-educated society than Thailand is. Human trafficking also flourishes in countries with rampant corruption, of which Thailand is a world leader. Human trafficked prostitutes are entirely slaves controlled by gangs and have no choice in it whatsoever.

Also Thailand is next to China which has slave-labour camps, and organ-harvesting of dissidents, these are the final null-point of human trafficking, when humans are reduced literally to meat. Hopefully we will never see that here, and hopefully future Thai governments will increase the living standards and education of the poorest Thais, so that human rights can be protected and prostitution will become just another job option, rather than as it often is today, literallly the 'only way out'.

A well written article. Just lacking a little research. Thailand is corrupt. But they are not even in the op 50% most corrupted. Hardly a leader

[devilish]

As an American, I have certain morals and beliefs instilled in me from an early age; However, spending a lot of time in Thailand will question those beliefs relentlessly.

[tonysilly]

Funny! All this info and the stupid map and they can't stop it. Can't stop drugs can't stop the mobb. Tooo much $$$$ the police and the Goverment are all involed

[PoodMaiDai]

And to think, just a week ago I saw a debate on TV where several posters said that sort of thing doesn't happen in Thailand anymore.

The sad part is, they know how they do it, where they do it, and who's involved, but they don't do a whole lot to stop it. The reality is, it's not stopped because police and government officials are involved in owning the brothels and moving the girls around. This sort of thing doesn't happen without help from the authorities, and it's the same all over the world.

[PoodMaiDai]

Where do the majority of pattaya parlours customers come from?

Some of the brothels on Soi 8 Theppist are girls working off debt their parents have and can not leave until it's paid. If you want to know who is who, as to see their ID. If they can't produce it, it's because either the boss / owner has it until the debt is paid, or she is underage. Some of those same bars are owned by Pattaya police.

[JurgenG]

I have marked JurgenG's post (#8) as an I Like because he is addressing the other side of the coin. Because a bar or a go-go is "Falang" managed, doesn't mean it is run properly (if operating in the sex trade can be deemed as proper in the first place).

If the girl (or boy or in-betwwen for that matter) is wearing a number, they are fair game as far as the customer is concerned. We don't know the girl's/boy's story, don't know if they were coerced into the situation they find themselves in or if it is a voluntary decision.

The above statement doesn't mean I condone these places, what I am trying to say is think before you comment on this subject as you may be unknowingly contributing to it.

EDIT: It is a far more complicated issue than it first appears, and an even harder one to stop!

I heard a fellow from a NGO that tries to help these people out. Part of his talk was about the difficulties getting the government to do some thing when they find people in the trade.

Also their are a lot of people in it who were rescued and just turned around and came back to it. Apparently the living condition they are being sent back to make the conditions here look good by comparison.

I am not a proponent of human trafficking but I do believe that there are conditions people live in that most of the do gooders here have no idea of and would deny them if they were staring them in the face.

Also their are a lot of people in it who were rescued and just turned around and came back to it.

The same can be said about drug addicts.

_

[canuckamuck]

And to think, just a week ago I saw a debate on TV where several posters said that sort of thing doesn't happen in Thailand anymore.

The sad part is, they know how they do it, where they do it, and who's involved, but they don't do a whole lot to stop it. The reality is, it's not stopped because police and government officials are involved in owning the brothels and moving the girls around. This sort of thing doesn't happen without help from the authorities, and it's the same all over the world.

The Police don't stop it but they do make it more expensive.

[Yunla]

A well written article. Just lacking a little research. Thailand is corrupt. But they are not even in the op 50% most corrupted. Hardly a leader

Thankyou for your reply, and I can see your point, I wasn't really writing it as an article, just a posted response to what I felt was an outrageous post saying prostitutes have the right to be sex slaves if they want to. Also the eminently fallible 'corruption perception index' puts Thailand as equal 80th place on their table 2011, which is not a positive achievement, but that is a "perceived corruption of public sector" which is not actually a litmus for the full depth or indeed breadth of actual corruption in a country. There are some good PDF documents online which are measuring and calculating the accuracy of CPI, most people agree that CPI has a far too narrow a definition of corruption, and that corruption is by its very nature impossible to chart.

I would suggest that Thailand is spectacularly institutionally corrupt, and that the continuous tourist income actually provides oxygen for this fire, whereas other nations that are corrupt are often also totally impoverished. Thailand is unique imo, and uniquely corrupt and is in my opinion a world leader in this. I also think Thailand is a world leader in 'nice place to live'. I wasn't really saying its one of the worst nations, or that the corruption is irreversible, just that the corruption and the knock-on effects of corruption including impunity for human-traffickers etc. is massive and will take a long time to fix.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Yunla

[americaninbangkok]

Take a look around all the Bars and massage parlours, Do they look like they are Unhappy or being forced to do it??? I think not! Don't believe everything (or anything) We are told!

Yes... I will start by not believing this logic.

[americaninbangkok]

name='Aurer' timestamp='1340885378' post='5436424']

Where do the majority of pattaya parlours customers come from?

[/b]

Scary places.

[americaninbangkok]

We (the world) need to wake up to the fact that sex is ...

What rubbish!

[americaninbangkok]

"We have sent some staff to Britain and Canada to improve our investigations. We have also worked with the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime in trying to solve the problem," he said.

Or was it more likely...

The Brits and Canadians paid for some of our staff to come over and learn how they crack down on human trafficking.

Our staff went to UK and Canada and totally f*cked off and went shopping.

[americaninbangkok]

Pol Lt-Colonel Jatuporn Arun-rerkthawin from the Department of Special Investigation said Chinese-speaking women were now much in demand among customers of brothels in the South.

Was he doing a marketing survey/recon?!

"Those places serve many Chinese-Malaysians," he said. "Women from countries north of Thailand have nice skin and good figures."

Why does that last part just sound a bit creepy/pervy?

[simple1]

Take a look around all the Bars and massage parlours, Do they look like they are Unhappy or being forced to do it??? I think not! Don't believe everything (or anything) We are told!

Yes... I will start by not believing this logic.

Start believing because girls working in Bar Beers do so of their own volition; nobody forces them to do so. Completely opposite to human trafficking

EDIT: Some foreigners do not understand that in Thailand, some Thai girls are sold to brothels by their parents for economic reasons, debts etc they actually have signed a contract, through an agent, for the daughter for x number of years to work in the brothel to clear the family debt. This is one of the ugly facets of human trafficking in Thailand.

Edited June 29, 2012 by simple1

[canuckamuck]

Take a look around all the Bars and massage parlours, Do they look like they are Unhappy or being forced to do it??? I think not! Don't believe everything (or anything) We are told!

Yes... I will start by not believing this logic.

Start believing because girls working in Bar Beers do so of their own volition; nobody forces them to do so. Completely opposite to human trafficking

EDIT: Some foreigners do not understand that in Thailand, some Thai girls are sold to brothels by their parents for economic reasons, debts etc they actually have signed a contract, through an agent, for the daughter for x number of years to work in the brothel to clear the family debt. This is one of the ugly facets of human trafficking in Thailand.

You realize you just contradicted your self right?

[simple1]

Take a look around all the Bars and massage parlours, Do they look like they are Unhappy or being forced to do it??? I think not! Don't believe everything (or anything) We are told!

Yes... I will start by not believing this logic.

Start believing because girls working in Bar Beers do so of their own volition; nobody forces them to do so. Completely opposite to human trafficking

EDIT: Some foreigners do not understand that in Thailand, some Thai girls are sold to brothels by their parents for economic reasons, debts etc they actually have signed a contract, through an agent, for the daughter for x number of years to work in the brothel to clear the family debt. This is one of the ugly facets of human trafficking in Thailand.

You realize you just contradicted your self right?

As far as I know girls working in bar beers with open fronts to the street are not sold into service, their may be exceptions, is that correct?

Edited June 29, 2012 by simple1

[samsiam]

I understand what you mean....there are varying degrees of everything.....but in general, yes the beer bars most likely do not have girls working on debt contracts same same as brothels or massage parlours.

While girls may not be forced into the biz....many are faced with financial pressures that can be not much different to being forced by another.

But, at the end of the day....look around....many girls choose to work normal lives in 7/11's and department stores for little money....its all a choice at the end of the day.

//Baiting comments removed//

Edited June 29, 2012 by metisdead

[ttelise]

Yes, some men and women chose the sex industry. I have no problem with that provided they are not children.

Regarding human trafficking though, I candidly do not see how anyone with an ounce if ethics or morals can even attempt to imply or infer it is okay.

The glorious patrons of the messed up sex industry are comparable to drug addicts except their dopamine/endorphin rush comes from sex rather than substances. Well, actually, to me their is nothing lower especially when it involves children or youg adults who, for one reason or another, do not have choices or are forced to mess with smelly old, beer bellied men. Has to mess them up down the road.

[kerryk]

I wasn't going to comment because I doubt anyone posting in this thread would really want to hear the truth. If you want the truth ask a woman who was trafficked or better yet ask 50,000 women who have been trafficked.

"Instead of respect for our basic human rights under the United Nations Human Rights Council we are

given “protection” under the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. We are forced to live with

the modern lie that border controls and anti-trafficking policies are for our protection. None of us

believe that lie or want that kind of protection. We have been spied on, arrested, cut off from our

families, had our savings confiscated, interrogated, imprisoned and placed into the hands of the men

with guns, in order for them to send us home... all in the name of “protection against trafficking”.

It’s rubbing salt into the wound that this is called helping us. We are grateful for those who are

genuinely concerned with our welfare ... but we ask you to listen to us and think in new ways."

The above quote is from Ms Chantawipa Apisuk the leading authority on trafficking in Thailand.

www.chezstella.org/stella/Hit-and-Run-RATSW.pdf

[simple1]

I wasn't going to comment because I doubt anyone posting in this thread would really want to hear the truth. If you want the truth ask a woman who was trafficked or better yet ask 50,000 women who have been trafficked.

"Instead of respect for our basic human rights under the United Nations Human Rights Council we are

given “protection” under the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. We are forced to live with

the modern lie that border controls and anti-trafficking policies are for our protection. None of us

believe that lie or want that kind of protection. We have been spied on, arrested, cut off from our

families, had our savings confiscated, interrogated, imprisoned and placed into the hands of the men

with guns, in order for them to send us home... all in the name of “protection against trafficking”.

It’s rubbing salt into the wound that this is called helping us. We are grateful for those who are

genuinely concerned with our welfare ... but we ask you to listen to us and think in new ways."

The above quote is from Ms Chantawipa Apisuk the leading authority on trafficking in Thailand.

www.chezstella.org/stella/Hit-and-Run-RATSW.pdf

Surely western governments must know the identity of the major sponsors/financiers of human trafficking in Thailand. Have they put in place travel bans, frozen their overseas assets and so? At a minimum it would be a step in the right direction

Edited June 30, 2012 by simple1

[kerryk]

I wasn't going to comment because I doubt anyone posting in this thread would really want to hear the truth. If you want the truth ask a woman who was trafficked or better yet ask 50,000 women who have been trafficked.

"Instead of respect for our basic human rights under the United Nations Human Rights Council we are

given “protection” under the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. We are forced to live with

the modern lie that border controls and anti-trafficking policies are for our protection. None of us

believe that lie or want that kind of protection. We have been spied on, arrested, cut off from our

families, had our savings confiscated, interrogated, imprisoned and placed into the hands of the men

with guns, in order for them to send us home... all in the name of “protection against trafficking”.

It’s rubbing salt into the wound that this is called helping us. We are grateful for those who are

genuinely concerned with our welfare ... but we ask you to listen to us and think in new ways."

The above quote is from Ms Chantawipa Apisuk the leading authority on trafficking in Thailand.

www.chezstella.org/stella/Hit-and-Run-RATSW.pdf

Surely western governments must know the identity of the major sponsors/financiers of human trafficking in Thailand. Have they put in place travel bans, frozen their overseas assets and so? At a minimum it would be a step in the right direction

If you read the linked article you would know the answer to your question.

[simple1]

I wasn't going to comment because I doubt anyone posting in this thread would really want to hear the truth. If you want the truth ask a woman who was trafficked or better yet ask 50,000 women who have been trafficked.

"Instead of respect for our basic human rights under the United Nations Human Rights Council we are

given “protection” under the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. We are forced to live with

the modern lie that border controls and anti-trafficking policies are for our protection. None of us

believe that lie or want that kind of protection. We have been spied on, arrested, cut off from our

families, had our savings confiscated, interrogated, imprisoned and placed into the hands of the men

with guns, in order for them to send us home... all in the name of “protection against trafficking”.

It’s rubbing salt into the wound that this is called helping us. We are grateful for those who are

genuinely concerned with our welfare ... but we ask you to listen to us and think in new ways."

The above quote is from Ms Chantawipa Apisuk the leading authority on trafficking in Thailand.

www.chezstella.org/stella/Hit-and-Run-RATSW.pdf

Surely western governments must know the identity of the major sponsors/financiers of human trafficking in Thailand. Have they put in place travel bans, frozen their overseas assets and so? At a minimum it would be a step in the right direction

If you read the linked article you would know the answer to your question.

OK I have read the report and unless I have overlooked it no action has been taken against specific Thais by Western governments. However, the report is primarily focused on the sex worker industry in Thailand and is arguing the case for decriminalisation of prostitution as the best way forward to minimise exploitation; this seems fair enough to me.

Some interesting content as follows:

Given the anti-trafficking movement’s primary focus is on the sex industry and the size of our migrant workforce we found that the above data fully supports our anecdotal evidence from sex workers and employers, that trafficking into the sex industry in Thailand is the exception rather than the rule.

No witness protection provided even though legislated.

“I did so many jobs before sex work. I was exploited in every one of them. Sex work gives me the most independence, freedom and the best conditions. It’s the same for all my friends. We are grateful and thank you for your concern, but please don’t rescue”

This last quote underlines my Thai wife's comment that Westerners visiting Thailand are fools if they believe bar girls sob stories

Edited June 30, 2012 by simple1