Pathetic, Really. House Hunting ....

[pattayadingo]

Looking around for houses, I found one in a quiet street, a little bit out of the way from shops and such, but that was no real problem. The house is clean and a reasonable size. The g/f likes it too.

The house in question has a 2 tier rent pricing structure. 10,000 unfurnished or 13,000 furnished. As I have all my own furniture I thought 10K was a reasonable price to pay. That was until the woman who showed us the house said that if it was let unfurnished they would take down the curtains and take out the air-con units too. I had to double check that that is what she actually said to the g/f. When the woman confirmed it in English, I turned around and walked out.

All the unfurnished places I have rented here in Thailand have all had curtains, mosquito screens and air con units as standard in the rental price. This one has to take the prize for me as being so pathetic. I also wondered, if they were being like this at the start, what they might be like in the future if anything needs repairing or sorting out.

Sigh, back to house hunting again!!

[David48]

The good news is that you now have a Lassie in tow ...

Bit average about the curtains etc ... she's just a poker player and calling a bluff.

Sad really ...

[Jingthing]

Which begs the question -- did you ask whether there would be a discount on the furnished price to take it "furnished" only with A/C units and curtains?

[Scully]

Sounds like she wanted 13k a month and cut off her nose to spite her face.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Scully

[dave111223]

You should be happy you found out the landlord was a douche now and were able to walk away. Better than moving in and finding them unscrewing the toilet seats because "those cost an extra 500 per month each"

[candid]

I just rented a house after looking around for a few weeks. Anything I was showed by an agent was terrible. We went to Big C, Foodland noticeboards etc. drove round the villages till I found one I liked. Not a patch on the one I let go last year (which had a Thai landlady) but was getting fed up and needed to go back to work.

Never seen this kind of unfurnished to mean no curtains or AC bit before, but who would accept that anyway?

[chiangmaikelly]

I moved out of my apartment and sold the landlord the AC that I had put in. When I moved in it had only a fan.

[BookMan]

Which begs the question -- did you ask whether there would be a discount on the furnished price to take it "furnished" only with A/C units and curtains?

Very astute indeed JT

[pattayadingo]

I just rented a house after looking around for a few weeks. Anything I was showed by an agent was terrible. We went to Big C, Foodland noticeboards etc. drove round the villages till I found one I liked. Not a patch on the one I let go last year (which had a Thai landlady) but was getting fed up and needed to go back to work.

Never seen this kind of unfurnished to mean no curtains or AC bit before, but who would accept that anyway?

I too have spent a long time looking for a different place and there seem to be so few about, at least in the areas I would prefer to live. Newspapers, Baht Sold and other mediums like you have mentioned seem to have too few places for rent.

Yes, it was over the top regards the curtains and air con. I can laugh about it now but I was not a happy bunny at the time

[pattayadingo]

Which begs the question -- did you ask whether there would be a discount on the furnished price to take it "furnished" only with A/C units and curtains?

Darn it, I never thought of that angle, JT. I'll bear it in mind next time

[tfc]

Sounds like you dodged a bullet there. This is the sort of landlord that wants you to fix the roof when it falls in.

[SlyAnimal]

You called her bluff.

No landlord furnishes a place, and then wants to rent it out unfurnished. Because then they have to put all of the furnishings into storage, that's why she tried to effectively bully you into taking the place (Since she'd take out some of the essentials if you didn't accept it with furnishings). She probably only said that it was 10k without the furnishings (Even though she would never intend on renting it for only 10k), just so that she could get more people to respond to the advertisement etc (Or if you heard about it via word of mouth, that she could justify why the "Farang Price" was 13k not 10k).

[BigJohnnyBKK]

If you want good value never ever search via any advertising medium, particularly those targeting foreigners.

Just select your neighborhood(s) and walk around, asking people - especially the street vendors, moto dops and hair salons in the area, plus anyone else that looks like they get out and about and know what's going on - also just walk around the back sois and look out for posted signs. Obviously this requires Thai, so take along a trusted helper if you don't have that bit.

If I'm really determined on a particular area - like walking distance to my new full-time job - I make up a stack of little flyers 1/8 cut up photocopies with an outline of my price range, type of place I'm looking for and my (or my helper's) phone number, offering B1,000 to whoever puts me in touch with the landlord of the place I end up choosing. Since I've already become a bit of a known quantity in the neighborhood - here's that crazy farang again - word tends to spread and within a couple of weeks you've usually got a few dozen places to look at.

Personally if you're there long-term and looking for the best value, I advise taking the place with no curtains or A/C. If the units are old, the electric bill from using the A/C will quickly overtake the price of buying a newer efficient one, and the places that are "truly unfurnished" like that should be significantly cheaper.

I also get a "rolling" three-year lease, so each year we execute another one, gives me more leverage if/when she wants to put up the rate, or I need her to fix something up - usually I take responsibility for the paint, electric and minor plumbing issues, she only gets called in for things like water leakage.

B12K per month for a five-story row house fifteen minutes walk from Sathorn BTS, two minutes from the express ferry dock. But the neighbors all say I'm paying too much 8-)

[Semper]

Sounds like you dodged a bullet there. This is the sort of landlord that wants you to fix the roof when it falls in.

Most of them do.

[pattayadingo]

You called her bluff.

No landlord furnishes a place, and then wants to rent it out unfurnished. Because then they have to put all of the furnishings into storage, that's why she tried to effectively bully you into taking the place (Since she'd take out some of the essentials if you didn't accept it with furnishings). She probably only said that it was 10k without the furnishings (Even though she would never intend on renting it for only 10k), just so that she could get more people to respond to the advertisement etc (Or if you heard about it via word of mouth, that she could justify why the "Farang Price" was 13k not 10k).

The place is currently unfurnished. Nothing in it but the curtains on the windows and a sink in the kitchen. I never mentioned that in the original post because i did not even think about it. It was my assumption they wanted to furnish it only if and when they get someone to rent the place.

On the other hand, maybe the curtains and air con ARE the furnishings

[pattayadingo]

If you want good value never ever search via any advertising medium, particularly those targeting foreigners.

Just select your neighborhood(s) and walk around, asking people - especially the street vendors, moto dops and hair salons in the area, plus anyone else that looks like they get out and about and know what's going on - also just walk around the back sois and look out for posted signs. Obviously this requires Thai, so take along a trusted helper if you don't have that bit.

If I'm really determined on a particular area - like walking distance to my new full-time job - I make up a stack of little flyers 1/8 cut up photocopies with an outline of my price range, type of place I'm looking for and my (or my helper's) phone number, offering B1,000 to whoever puts me in touch with the landlord of the place I end up choosing. Since I've already become a bit of a known quantity in the neighborhood - here's that crazy farang again - word tends to spread and within a couple of weeks you've usually got a few dozen places to look at.

Personally if you're there long-term and looking for the best value, I advise taking the place with no curtains or A/C. If the units are old, the electric bill from using the A/C will quickly overtake the price of buying a newer efficient one, and the places that are "truly unfurnished" like that should be significantly cheaper.

I also get a "rolling" three-year lease, so each year we execute another one, gives me more leverage if/when she wants to put up the rate, or I need her to fix something up - usually I take responsibility for the paint, electric and minor plumbing issues, she only gets called in for things like water leakage.

B12K per month for a five-story row house fifteen minutes walk from Sathorn BTS, two minutes from the express ferry dock. But the neighbors all say I'm paying too much 8-)

Starting with the air con, this is a relatively new house and the air con units are new too. 5* rated also.

With regards to looking, I have the g/f on the back of the bike and we have been round and up and down so many streets it makes your head spin. She looks for the Thai signs and I look for the ones in English. In all honesty there are not many empty. Some that are are asking ridiculous prices, well into the 20K band and I refuse to pay that much for what are basically town or village houses. Not even a semi-detached among them.

I do also look in the newspapers, Thai Visa and Baht Sold, as well as extending my radius into other areas.

I found another place this evening in a very small street that was the very devil to find the entrance of. I got the g/f to phone and the deposit alone is 30K ( 3 months rent ) + a months rent in advance on a 2 bed, 1 storey building. There is no way I intend to throw away 30K if I can help that either. ( I have never had a deposit returned here in Thailand).

No wonder so many places stay empty.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

With regards to looking, I have the g/f on the back of the bike and we have been round and up and down so many streets it makes your head spin. She looks for the Thai signs and I look for the ones in English. In all honesty there are not many empty. Some that are are asking ridiculous prices, well into the 20K band and I refuse to pay that much for what are basically town or village houses. Not even a semi-detached among them.

I do also look in the newspapers, Thai Visa and Baht Sold, as well as extending my radius into other areas.

I found another place this evening in a very small street that was the very devil to find the entrance of. I got the g/f to phone and the deposit alone is 30K ( 3 months rent ) + a months rent in advance on a 2 bed, 1 storey building. There is no way I intend to throw away 30K if I can help that either. ( I have never had a deposit returned here in Thailand).

No wonder so many places stay empty.

Yes it can take a lot of legwork, maybe try the flyer idea, it's worked for me a few times over the years, maybe make it B2,000 if B1,000 doesn't get many hits in the first couple of weeks.

Sounds like a very pricey area, is it one where there are a lot of farang? Do you have a strong reason for wanting to be in that particular area?

And note if you don't need car access the really small sois are cheaper, I rented one house for a few years one storey like yours but 2BR 2 bath for B5,000, but it was right on the edge of a pretty rough slum, and the wife didn't want our kids growing up learning the kind of language you'd hear around the neighborhood.

[SimonD]

Speak to the taxi-motorcycle guys on the ranks, let them know what sort of place you're looking for and offer the incentive suggested by another poster.

The mom 'n' pop shops are also a good place to ask. The people who run them have their ears to the ground. Print off some 'wanted' ads and offer to pay to put them up various shops, or even on utility poles. Get a disposable sim just for this purpose rather than compromise your main number.

By your username I take it you are looking in Pattaya? If so, have you looked on the Darkside?

[barefoot1988]

the next time you know about unfurnished is that it doesnt even have tiles

[Neeranam]

Sounds like she wanted 13k a month and cut off her nose to spite her face.

Was she Chinese Thai?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

the next time you know about unfurnished is that it doesnt even have tiles

Just in case this isn't a joke, let me clear up that would be an extreme case.

Basic rule of thumb - you get the house "as is" what you see is what you get unless you arrange otherwise with the landlord. Of course you should clarify anything that strikes you as unusual as you walk around and confirm it does or doesn't come as part of the package.

And don't be shy to negotiate addendums to the off-the-shelf lease agreement - for example, permission to conduct a business on the premises without paying additional rent, right to sub-let (rarely granted).

And yes, be aware that landlords charging actual-market rents as opposed to the usual farang-inflated prices will never take responsibility for the kinds of maintenance repairs we'd expect (and often legally required) in the west, make sure your expectations in that area are very low and specified in writing.

The usual situation is the tenant fixes anything but major structural stuff - factor that into your financial calculations and you'll be OK, fantasize about them doing it and you're just setting yourself for failure.

[tfc]

the next time you know about unfurnished is that it doesnt even have tiles

Wait a minute - you got tiles in yours? dam_n.

[barefoot1988]

the next time you know about unfurnished is that it doesnt even have tiles

Wait a minute - you got tiles in yours? dam_n.

mine came with cement floor, finished off with a 50 grit sandpaper

[BigJohnnyBKK]

mine came with cement floor, finished off with a 50 grit sandpaper

The heavy-duty vinyl pseudo-tiling is not expensive, but be aware it only looks good for the first 2-3 years.

[pattayadingo]

Speak to the taxi-motorcycle guys on the ranks, let them know what sort of place you're looking for and offer the incentive suggested by another poster.

The mom 'n' pop shops are also a good place to ask. The people who run them have their ears to the ground. Print off some 'wanted' ads and offer to pay to put them up various shops, or even on utility poles. Get a disposable sim just for this purpose rather than compromise your main number.

By your username I take it you are looking in Pattaya? If so, have you looked on the Darkside?

Yes, I've been looking on the 'darkside' too. We have spent hours on the m/c looking over the 'border'. I did not realise there were so many Villages !! Up and down all those streets and quite a few kilometres into the darkside.

I am not a particularly fussy person but have to admit that I have seen nothing yet that is suitable. My main needs are to have a spare bedroom for the computer + the main bedroom where she can watch Thai TV, a kitchen, a living room and somewhere relatively clean and quiet.

It is surprising the high rent some are asking and excessive deposits too.

This afternoon I'm off to look at this new place I found last night but it does not bode well that she has asked for 30K deposit on a 10K rent.

Believe it or not I've even been to khon Kaen and Roi Et looking for places. But due to some difficulties I had to curtail that trip. The Issan forum has been helpful regards hotels and I'm considering a new trip up that way in the near future.

[jacktrip]

anything weird at the beginning, anything, walk.

they will be holding deposits and you have very little rights here.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I built into my lease that in the first three years, when I renew my rolling three-year lease, my original three-month deposit is reduced by one month (counted toward rent that month), conditional on an inspection and the improvements I've made to the house that I can't take with me being worth more than any wear-and-tear showing at that time. Obviously I take care of any greater damages as they come up.

We've now got down to zero, and in fact now and again I've gotten as much as six months' behind in the rent and she's been OK because she knows I won't run out on her, we've built up mutual trust over time.

[Shaktam]

I'm thinking she maybe is losing a small amount of her monthly cut on this house. I had a similar problem when I was dealing with the caretaker of my condo. The lady was taking a cut for herself that the owner didn't know about. I got in contact with the foreign owner and sorted the whole mess out much to his surprise. Now we deal direct with the owner and it's much better.

[pattayadingo]

I'm thinking she maybe is losing a small amount of her monthly cut on this house. I had a similar problem when I was dealing with the caretaker of my condo. The lady was taking a cut for herself that the owner didn't know about. I got in contact with the foreign owner and sorted the whole mess out much to his surprise. Now we deal direct with the owner and it's much better.

when the g/f phoned the second number who we believe is the Thai owner, he insists we tal to the 'office'. Anyway, we have decided 100% that we would not feel comfortable there any longer, myself especially as I could not really trust anyone who would turn off or take the air con units on an unfurnished unit.

As an aside, we looked at this other house that was 10K a month.......

2 bed furnished. 3 air con units.

The first thing we noticed were the mattresses. They were covered in stains and not coffee stains either!!

The kitchen was dirty with black mould on the untiled sections of the floor. Along the counter it was coming away from the wall and cockroaches were coming through the large cracks.

One bathroom was okay the other would never look clean.

Minimal furniture.

AND she insisted the deposit would be 30K

Some of these people seem to have no real idea on how to maintain a place or what standards ahould be.

Sigh, I'll keep on looking

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Some of these people seem to have no real idea on how to maintain a place or what standards ahould be.

IMO it's your standards that need adjusting at this lower end of the market, only in the IMO overpriced sector do you see anything approaching international standards.

To the extent you're staying long-term, just factor in the fact that you'll need to spend X amount to get it up to what you want to live with. Don't listen to the SF complaining that you're wasting money, just donating to the landlord, in your own head amortize it over the length of time you'll be there and make your own decision as to what's cost-effective.

For example - if the market rate for a beautifully maintained and furnished place with the location and space you want is B18,000, and you find a fixer-upper for 11K, and you plan to stay there for two years, you could spend well over B100K making it gorgeous exactly to your tastes so you really love living there, without having to worry about fixing it up toward the end of your stay, and still have plenty left over for the ongoing plumbing/electric etc maintenance differential as well.

That way you're motivated to find a place that is super-cheap in order to give you a greater spending budget, never mind that one place is more slovenly and run down than the next, that works to your advantage.

Plus the 3-month deposit becomes much less of an issue.

The fact that you're also making the landlord happy can also work to your advantage if/when you decide to stay on, don't let the teerak's jealousy turn it into a disadvantage.

That's how I look at it anyway, YMMV