The Grey Man "The truth revealed"

[KittenKong]

Just as with tourist police volunteers: I don't know any and I don't want to know any, thanks. These people generally seem to have an axe of some type to grind.

You are comparing chalk and cheese. The tourist police volunteers are generally people who would never have been accepted as police back home possibly due to criminal convictions or failing psychological tests at entrance exams. Grey men aren't old expats trying to live a missed past but many are actually currently serving dedicated police officers who accumulate their leave and volunteer their time to a cause. They pay everything out of their own pockets and probably the only axe to grind is the dislike of child abuse and the child sex slavery business.

To me both groups appear to be very similar indeed, and I dont trust or like either of them.

Luckily I am unlikely to ever come into contact with either group, which suits me just fine.

[OLDAUSSIE]

Just as with tourist police volunteers: I don't know any and I don't want to know any, thanks. These people generally seem to have an axe of some type to grind.

You are comparing chalk and cheese. The tourist police volunteers are generally people who would never have been accepted as police back home possibly due to criminal convictions or failing psychological tests at entrance exams. Grey men aren't old expats trying to live a missed past but many are actually currently serving dedicated police officers who accumulate their leave and volunteer their time to a cause. They pay everything out of their own pockets and probably the only axe to grind is the dislike of child abuse and the child sex slavery business.

To me both groups appear to be very similar indeed, and I dont trust or like either of them.

Luckily I am unlikely to ever come into contact with either group, which suits me just fine.

I think chooka showed you the difference, but you choose to skip over that bit.

[KittenKong]

I think chooka showed you the difference, but you choose to skip over that bit.

I believe I addressed it.

[MrMalarkey]

So why are you complaining about this on this website ,AD has a website where people can ask questions and post comments about his articles he posts online about certain people and organisitions .

AD seems to be dodging shit in this case, perhaps he is a little embarrassed for screwing it up....if he did.

Problem is that we have the he said they said accusations and only the real culprits know exactly what went on and the why and how.

But with AD's dodging it does certainly lean it towards TGM.

TGM raises circa $80k a year.

SISHA gets around $800k a year from one person if I read it correctly.

TGM pays for everything themselves, SISHA is funded and look what is happening with the SISHA implosion.

Did TGM screw up one time, perhaps, but how bad in reality and did they even in fact?

Problem with TGM is that they were trying to do too much with too little. All this self funding and everyone paying their own way is admirable, but look where it got them, a burnt out and broke, defeated leader.

Best to pay people to do a job and get on with it, raise more funds and get more done at the end of the day and still be around to carry on with the tasks you want to carry out.

[Jessi]

Best to pay people to do a job and get on with it, raise more funds and get more done at the end of the day and still be around to carry on with the tasks you want to carry out.

The only problem with that is that if you are a volunteer and use your own money and get burnt out idiot expats will claim
'NGOs are generally run by people whose only real interest is for themselves'. and if you get paid then expats will say 'NGOs are generally run by people whose only real interest is for themselves'.

Luckily for Grey Man and John Curtis they never paid much attention to expats and didn't bother to get permission from kittenkong, mmh8, bookman and others before they rescued kids

Like Tony Ryan I wonder whether any of the negative people on here actually bothered to read the posts.

[Kudel]

So why are you complaining about this on this website ,AD has a website where people can ask questions and post comments about his articles he posts online about certain people and organisitions .

AD seems to be dodging shit in this case, perhaps he is a little embarrassed for screwing it up....if he did.

Problem is that we have the he said they said accusations and only the real culprits know exactly what went on and the why and how.

But with AD's dodging it does certainly lean it towards TGM.

TGM raises circa $80k a year.

SISHA gets around $800k a year from one person if I read it correctly.

TGM pays for everything themselves, SISHA is funded and look what is happening with the SISHA implosion.

Did TGM screw up one time, perhaps, but how bad in reality and did they even in fact?

Problem with TGM is that they were trying to do too much with too little. All this self funding and everyone paying their own way is admirable, but look where it got them, a burnt out and broke, defeated leader.

Best to pay people to do a job and get on with it, raise more funds and get more done at the end of the day and still be around to carry on with the tasks you want to carry out.

who are you drew noyes perhaps?ad has been banned from this site several times because some of the people he has written stuff about and has won many courtcases against are sponsers of this website so ad can not come on here and give his opinion .

[Jessi]

As far as I can see these moralistic NGOs are generally run by people whose only real interest is for themselves. The always seem to have a hidden agenda.

I wonder how that works if you don't get paid, don't have offices, spend your own money and don't own any vehicles??? AND you are not trying to stop prostitution, just involuntary sex work.

Funny that Tony Ryan must be psychic because he pre-empted these kinds of stupid comments by regularly saying 'Grey Man were all volunteers', no pay, etc, etc, etc

[Jessi]

I have said many times in the past, that the NGO organisations are simply, jobs for the lads.

Again, how does that work if you are all volunteers??

[Jessi]

I think chooka showed you the difference, but you choose to skip over that bit.

I believe I addressed it.

Only in your own little mind.

[Jessi]

On the balance of finding multiple sources of informaiton vs a posting on a forum similar to tv I would go for the multiple sources every time. Credible reporting takes yearss of practise at being credible, being a poster in a forum makes you well ...... I guess an eminant source of information

What are the multiple sources? There is only one source...Drummond and then circulated numerous times on numerous sites, and then taken and quoted by other vested interests like the sex worker groups, etc . I even saw them quoting drummonds fake rescue story in an academic paper on trafficking. Seriously???

[chooka]

I think chooka showed you the difference, but you choose to skip over that bit.

I believe I addressed it.

Yep then you compare the volunteers/grey men who give up their free time to fight bushfires(forest fires) in their spare time. They don't get paid and many watch their homes burns. NGO's with a self interest. Yes they are all the same.

[Jessi]

As far as I read, the comments posted on the blog by 'Tony Ryan' and Andrew Drummond do nothing to dispel the original story of last year. The original story and how it came about is the crux of the matter

The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue. There is no dispute that they did this. It all started with The Grey Man putting into motion a story to gain publicity that was shown to be false.

Sean Mcbride (john Curtis) stood down over the entire fiasco and it seems from the outside that he is the main offender in this story.

The actions of the leader and figurehead of The Grey Man Sean Mcbride (john Curtis) should not necessarily reflect on the people who volunteer their time to the organisation.

Undoubtedly the majority of volunteers to the group were there to genuinely help children in need.

The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue.

That is correct but why give credence to that? The original story was just that a story. The press release was true, the rescue was true but they then backed away from it because of the harassment of the children and villagers, according to Tony Ryan. The only source for the report was Trafcord (vested interest) and Drummond (vested interest) and the kids themselves who were conveniently paraded by Trafcord. Yet they would also have good reason to deny being trafficked. The only talk of a scam came from trafcord. Why haven't you heard a single thing since such as 'Grey Man found to have scammed funds' and not a word out of the Thais.

[BookMan]

As far as I read, the comments posted on the blog by 'Tony Ryan' and Andrew Drummond do nothing to dispel the original story of last year. The original story and how it came about is the crux of the matter

The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue. There is no dispute that they did this. It all started with The Grey Man putting into motion a story to gain publicity that was shown to be false.

Sean Mcbride (john Curtis) stood down over the entire fiasco and it seems from the outside that he is the main offender in this story.

The actions of the leader and figurehead of The Grey Man Sean Mcbride (john Curtis) should not necessarily reflect on the people who volunteer their time to the organisation.

Undoubtedly the majority of volunteers to the group were there to genuinely help children in need.

The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue.

That is correct but why give credence to that? The original story was just that a story. The press release was true, the rescue was true but they then backed away from it because of the harassment of the children and villagers, according to Tony Ryan. The only source for the report was Trafcord (vested interest) and Drummond (vested interest) and the kids themselves who were conveniently paraded by Trafcord. Yet they would also have good reason to deny being trafficked. The only talk of a scam came from trafcord. Why haven't you heard a single thing since such as 'Grey Man found to have scammed funds' and not a word out of the Thais.

Why give credence to what Grey Man themselves said and their sham story?

That is the whole point. It goes to the credibility of The Grey Man organisation and its figurehead at the time.

It never happened. They never did what they said they did. It appears the village children were under no threat. They never explained (as they promised they would) because they couldn't.

[Scottythai]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

I find A Drummond to be a shoot from the hip and hope he hits the mark kind of reporter. He writes well and makes a good read. But almost never has reliable sources. As for the Grey Man. Would not surprise me. Though I would hope for the best.

[simon43]

As I posted on the other forum where that thread originated, I have worked as an intel volunteer for TGM for 5 years or so, in Thailand, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. I still work for them and my confidence in that organisation has never been swayed. And of course, I have never asked for nor received a baht in salary.

I also count Andrew Drummond as a close friend So after stating my position, I'm keeping out of this arguement and just getting on with the job

Simon

[ericthegoalie]

I have been following grey man exploits over the past five years so was very surprised about the fake rescue story since, in spite of what has been said here they have a lot of credibility in australia. In the past I have just been a lurker on here but the tony ryan information prompted this post because logic seems to have gone out the window for a lot of people.

I am somwhat confused about this 'original' story. Can someone tell me what they are referring to?. Are we talking about the drummond article in the australian? Or are we talking about the drummond story on his blog or are we talking about the thai channel 7 story. Or is there a story that I missed? Clarification please

[wooloomooloo]

Or is there a story that I missed? Clarification please

Nothing missed. If you are going to donate to charity, your monies should be directed to where you are comfortable with.

If not, do the work yourself.

We can argue till the cows come home, but not going to change an iota.

[Jessi]

Or is there a story that I missed? Clarification please

Nothing missed. If you are going to donate to charity, your monies should be directed to where you are comfortable with.

If not, do the work yourself.

We can argue till the cows come home, but not going to change an iota.

I have supported The Grey Man for a number of years but I checked them out before I gave one cent.

They are a Registered Charity in Australia and that is no easy task and you will have a lot of eyes watching to make sure you are not a scam.

If anyone cares to take the time, I think its called the ACCC in Australia everything about The Grey Man can be checked and double checked and it come up squeky clean. No one gets paid, no expense accounts or jet setting around the world, all donations go to helping the children in fact from memory its 94% of donations go to helping these children that have been trafficked and abused, 6% goes to Admin cost. I dont think there would be another charity in the world that can claim this.(PLease correct me if I am wrong about this)

Some of the other things that attracted my interest in this charity were.

They are not connected to any Religion, to me that is a good thing because they are not trying to change other peoples culture.

They are not against prostitution, so they are not going around beating the drums of

so-called do goodies.

The volunteers that work for TGM are dedicated, they must be to pay for all of their own expenses and not get paid a salary for the work they do.

[Jessi]

As I posted on the other forum where that thread originated, I have worked as an intel volunteer for TGM for 5 years or so, in Thailand, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. I still work for them and my confidence in that organisation has never been swayed. And of course, I have never asked for nor received a baht in salary.

I also count Andrew Drummond as a close friend So after stating my position, I'm keeping out of this arguement and just getting on with the job

Simon

Thank you for that Simon, Its because of the dedicated people like yourself that The Grey Man has been so successful in helping the children that are being abused by these evil predators

[Jessi]

I have been following grey man exploits over the past five years so was very surprised about the fake rescue story since, in spite of what has been said here they have a lot of credibility in australia. In the past I have just been a lurker on here but the tony ryan information prompted this post because logic seems to have gone out the window for a lot of people.

I am somwhat confused about this 'original' story. Can someone tell me what they are referring to?. Are we talking about the drummond article in the australian? Or are we talking about the drummond story on his blog or are we talking about the thai channel 7 story. Or is there a story that I missed? Clarification please

Perhaps Drummond or Trafcord can give you the answer, after all it was Trafcord that called it a scam...vested interest indeed, they dont want to loose the funding from the U.S Government of about $400,000 per year ...

[ericthegoalie]

Or is there a story that I missed? Clarification please

Nothing missed. If you are going to donate to charity, your monies should be directed to where you are comfortable with.

If not, do the work yourself.

We can argue till the cows come home, but not going to change an iota.

I think you did miss my point. Someone on here said a number of times that there was an 'original' story. I am trying to get clear on what they meant by that. Andrew Drummond's blog, the Australian article by Andrew Drummond, the Thai Channel 7 news report or something else?. Just so we are all on the same page and know that we are referring to the same thing.

[ericthegoalie]

To save time I went back and looked at Tony Ryan's posts and then followed links or did google searches. It seems that the 'original' story came out on Thai Tv Channel 7 on Dec 14th, 2011. Now if this is the original story people are referring to then you really can't be serious. Thai journalism isn't exactly renowned for its accuracy.

The next story I can find is a you tube vdeo by andrew drummond of Grey Man and the Akhas' uploaded on January 5th, 2012 followed by the same video and a blog article on Andrew Drummond's site dated Jan 7, 2012 which also coincides with the article in the Australian on the same date.

So let's discount the Thai story as being suspect and assume that Andrew Drummond is a credible journalist and did some research and produced an account of what looks like a fake rescue.

Bookman says: The original story and how it came about is the crux of the matter. The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue. There is no dispute that they did this. It all started with The Grey Man putting into motion a story to gain publicity that was shown to be false.

Now my question is 'How do you know?' The only sources are Thai TV which seems a dubious source and if Tony Ryan is correct then they were directed by Trafcord which seems to have an interest in discrediting Grey Man. The only other source is Andrew Drummond.

Mr Drummond does seem to have a social justice agenda which I admire and appears to have gotten a number of stories correct. However, a journalist is only as good as his sources. Who were Mr Drummond's sources? Trafcord and the children. My Ryan gives a VERY detailed account of what happened and it is quite believable given the level of detail. At the same time he offered Mr Drummond the chance to answer a number of questions but Mr Drummond ignored the questions. I can only assume that some of the people on this site gave only a cursory look at Tony Ryan's posts or ignored them completely. If so they do themselves and this whole issue a disservice.

I also followed the links Mr Ryan provided and I think the most telling is the Ban Khun Suay Facebook page set up (he says) by Trafcord. https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=Ban+Khun+Suay&init=public#!/bankhun.suay?fref=browse_search

and I think that anyone who tries to be objective will be suspicious after reading that page. As Mr Ryan says there is nothing on it about the village except for a lot of anti-grey man information. I encourage you to look and make your own mind as to whether it is the kind of page a village would set up that mentions absolutely nothing about the village.

I think there is a great deal of truth in Tony Ryan's posts but I can't prove it. Just as no-one can really show that Mr Drummond's article is true either, especially after reading Mr Ryan's posts. No journalist is infallible. I remember an article many years ago about Libyan terrorists being sent to kill Ronald Reagan. I remember thinking at the time that it seemed strange that the authorities knew who they were (their photos were on the front page of the Washington Post) and that they were in Canada preparing to kill Reagan. Here is the article:

http://www.wrmea.org/congress-and-us-aid-to-israel/483-uncategorised/11244-the-libyan-hit-squad-hoax.html

The story disappeared and it only came out 5 years later that the story was a hoax done by an Iranian working for the Israeli Intelligence Service. the post told the truth in a two line item.

So, no offence to Mr Drummond but in light of the vast amount of information Mr Ryan provided and the fact that Mr Drummond would not respond to questions I can only assume that there is some truth in what Mr Ryan says. It is possible that Mr Drummond got it wrong only because his sources were not reliable or had an interest in misdirecting him. Sh!t happens, even to journalists of Mr Drummond's standing

[thailiketoo]

To save time I went back and looked at Tony Ryan's posts and then followed links or did google searches. It seems that the 'original' story came out on Thai Tv Channel 7 on Dec 14th, 2011. Now if this is the original story people are referring to then you really can't be serious. Thai journalism isn't exactly renowned for its accuracy.

The next story I can find is a you tube vdeo by andrew drummond of Grey Man and the Akhas' uploaded on January 5th, 2012 followed by the same video and a blog article on Andrew Drummond's site dated Jan 7, 2012 which also coincides with the article in the Australian on the same date.

So let's discount the Thai story as being suspect and assume that Andrew Drummond is a credible journalist and did some research and produced an account of what looks like a fake rescue.

Bookman says: The original story and how it came about is the crux of the matter. The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue. There is no dispute that they did this. It all started with The Grey Man putting into motion a story to gain publicity that was shown to be false.

Now my question is 'How do you know?' The only sources are Thai TV which seems a dubious source and if Tony Ryan is correct then they were directed by Trafcord which seems to have an interest in discrediting Grey Man. The only other source is Andrew Drummond.

Mr Drummond does seem to have a social justice agenda which I admire and appears to have gotten a number of stories correct. However, a journalist is only as good as his sources. Who were Mr Drummond's sources? Trafcord and the children. My Ryan gives a VERY detailed account of what happened and it is quite believable given the level of detail. At the same time he offered Mr Drummond the chance to answer a number of questions but Mr Drummond ignored the questions. I can only assume that some of the people on this site gave only a cursory look at Tony Ryan's posts or ignored them completely. If so they do themselves and this whole issue a disservice.

I also followed the links Mr Ryan provided and I think the most telling is the Ban Khun Suay Facebook page set up (he says) by Trafcord. https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=Ban+Khun+Suay&init=public#!/bankhun.suay?fref=browse_search

and I think that anyone who tries to be objective will be suspicious after reading that page. As Mr Ryan says there is nothing on it about the village except for a lot of anti-grey man information. I encourage you to look and make your own mind as to whether it is the kind of page a village would set up that mentions absolutely nothing about the village.

I think there is a great deal of truth in Tony Ryan's posts but I can't prove it. Just as no-one can really show that Mr Drummond's article is true either, especially after reading Mr Ryan's posts. No journalist is infallible. I remember an article many years ago about Libyan terrorists being sent to kill Ronald Reagan. I remember thinking at the time that it seemed strange that the authorities knew who they were (their photos were on the front page of the Washington Post) and that they were in Canada preparing to kill Reagan. Here is the article:

http://www.wrmea.org/congress-and-us-aid-to-israel/483-uncategorised/11244-the-libyan-hit-squad-hoax.html

The story disappeared and it only came out 5 years later that the story was a hoax done by an Iranian working for the Israeli Intelligence Service. the post told the truth in a two line item.

So, no offence to Mr Drummond but in light of the vast amount of information Mr Ryan provided and the fact that Mr Drummond would not respond to questions I can only assume that there is some truth in what Mr Ryan says. It is possible that Mr Drummond got it wrong only because his sources were not reliable or had an interest in misdirecting him. Sh!t happens, even to journalists of Mr Drummond's standing

Drummond is a well known Thai journalist.

• Fox Television
• Observer Film Company
• Observer
• News of the World
• Evening Standard/Daily Mail
• Fleet Street News Agency (TVNS)
• Reading Chronicle/Berkshire Mercury

Who is Tony Ryan?

Edited November 2, 2013 by thailiketoo

[chooka]

To save time I went back and looked at Tony Ryan's posts and then followed links or did google searches. It seems that the 'original' story came out on Thai Tv Channel 7 on Dec 14th, 2011. Now if this is the original story people are referring to then you really can't be serious. Thai journalism isn't exactly renowned for its accuracy.

The next story I can find is a you tube vdeo by andrew drummond of Grey Man and the Akhas' uploaded on January 5th, 2012 followed by the same video and a blog article on Andrew Drummond's site dated Jan 7, 2012 which also coincides with the article in the Australian on the same date.

So let's discount the Thai story as being suspect and assume that Andrew Drummond is a credible journalist and did some research and produced an account of what looks like a fake rescue.

Bookman says: The original story and how it came about is the crux of the matter. The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue. There is no dispute that they did this. It all started with The Grey Man putting into motion a story to gain publicity that was shown to be false.

Now my question is 'How do you know?' The only sources are Thai TV which seems a dubious source and if Tony Ryan is correct then they were directed by Trafcord which seems to have an interest in discrediting Grey Man. The only other source is Andrew Drummond.

Mr Drummond does seem to have a social justice agenda which I admire and appears to have gotten a number of stories correct. However, a journalist is only as good as his sources. Who were Mr Drummond's sources? Trafcord and the children. My Ryan gives a VERY detailed account of what happened and it is quite believable given the level of detail. At the same time he offered Mr Drummond the chance to answer a number of questions but Mr Drummond ignored the questions. I can only assume that some of the people on this site gave only a cursory look at Tony Ryan's posts or ignored them completely. If so they do themselves and this whole issue a disservice.

I also followed the links Mr Ryan provided and I think the most telling is the Ban Khun Suay Facebook page set up (he says) by Trafcord. https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=Ban+Khun+Suay&init=public#!/bankhun.suay?fref=browse_search

and I think that anyone who tries to be objective will be suspicious after reading that page. As Mr Ryan says there is nothing on it about the village except for a lot of anti-grey man information. I encourage you to look and make your own mind as to whether it is the kind of page a village would set up that mentions absolutely nothing about the village.

I think there is a great deal of truth in Tony Ryan's posts but I can't prove it. Just as no-one can really show that Mr Drummond's article is true either, especially after reading Mr Ryan's posts. No journalist is infallible. I remember an article many years ago about Libyan terrorists being sent to kill Ronald Reagan. I remember thinking at the time that it seemed strange that the authorities knew who they were (their photos were on the front page of the Washington Post) and that they were in Canada preparing to kill Reagan. Here is the article:

http://www.wrmea.org/congress-and-us-aid-to-israel/483-uncategorised/11244-the-libyan-hit-squad-hoax.html

The story disappeared and it only came out 5 years later that the story was a hoax done by an Iranian working for the Israeli Intelligence Service. the post told the truth in a two line item.

So, no offence to Mr Drummond but in light of the vast amount of information Mr Ryan provided and the fact that Mr Drummond would not respond to questions I can only assume that there is some truth in what Mr Ryan says. It is possible that Mr Drummond got it wrong only because his sources were not reliable or had an interest in misdirecting him. Sh!t happens, even to journalists of Mr Drummond's standing

Drummond is a well known Thai journalist.

• Fox Television
• Observer Film Company
• Observer
• News of the World
• Evening Standard/Daily Mail
• Fleet Street News Agency (TVNS)
• Reading Chronicle/Berkshire Mercury

Who is Tony Ryan?

You are so mixed up, you are trying to compare a part time / freelance journalist with the story he writes about a particular person. Who is Rupert Murdock and who is Sam Vandersam? What is your point? Drummond has been recognised as a person of false allegations and is banned from many media outlets and social networks. What is your point?

[Showbags]

who are you drew noyes perhaps?ad has been banned from this site several times because some of the people he has written stuff about and has won many courtcases against are sponsers of this website so ad can not come on here and give his opinion .

So you are saying this place accepts sponsorship from dodgy characters?

[Showbags]

Or is there a story that I missed? Clarification please

Nothing missed. If you are going to donate to charity, your monies should be directed to where you are comfortable with.

If not, do the work yourself.

We can argue till the cows come home, but not going to change an iota.

I think you did miss my point. Someone on here said a number of times that there was an 'original' story. I am trying to get clear on what they meant by that. Andrew Drummond's blog, the Australian article by Andrew Drummond, the Thai Channel 7 news report or something else?. Just so we are all on the same page and know that we are referring to the same thing.

I think they are referring to the 'press release' as the original story, so you will need to find that actual release wherever it is.....most likely on AD's site.

[thailiketoo]

Drummond is a well known Thai journalist.

• Fox Television
• Observer Film Company
• Observer
• News of the World
• Evening Standard/Daily Mail
• Fleet Street News Agency (TVNS)
• Reading Chronicle/Berkshire Mercury

Who is Tony Ryan?

You are so mixed up, you are trying to compare a part time / freelance journalist with the story he writes about a particular person. Who is Rupert Murdock and who is Sam Vandersam? What is your point? Drummond has been recognised as a person of false allegations and is banned from many media outlets and social networks. What is your point?

I think you missed my point. I know who Drummond is and his story is published all over the place. No disrespect but I heard Tony Ryan is an 17 year old who is writing for a class project.

You see what I mean. I know Drummond. But who is to say who is Ryan? Do you know his age? Do you know his occupation? Is he a reputable source? Drummond publishes and can be sued for libel in both Thailand and Australia and probably a lot of other places. Ryan is maybe a 17 year old student or a fictitious person. I don't know. Do you?

Edited November 2, 2013 by thailiketoo

[chooka]

As I posted on the other forum where that thread originated, I have worked as an intel volunteer for TGM for 5 years or so, in Thailand, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. I still work for them and my confidence in that organisation has never been swayed. And of course, I have never asked for nor received a baht in salary.

I also count Andrew Drummond as a close friend So after stating my position, I'm keeping out of this arguement and just getting on with the job

Simon

So as an intelligence officer working for the Grey Man, how do you feel about the allegations that you are only in it for self gratification?

Then you have your close friend Andrew who has publically ridiculed your intelligence or maybe you had the day off then and weren't involved in that particular incident or didn't receive any intelligence on the operation.

ummm I don't know Simon43 if you are actually connected with the Grey Man

[chooka]

Drummond is a well known Thai journalist.

• Fox Television
• Observer Film Company
• Observer
• News of the World
• Evening Standard/Daily Mail
• Fleet Street News Agency (TVNS)
• Reading Chronicle/Berkshire Mercury

Who is Tony Ryan?

You are so mixed up, you are trying to compare a part time / freelance journalist with the story he writes about a particular person. Who is Rupert Murdock and who is Sam Vandersam? What is your point? Drummond has been recognised as a person of false allegations and is banned from many media outlets and social networks. What is your point?

I think you missed my point. I know who Drummond is and his story is published all over the place. No disrespect but I heard Tony Ryan is an 17 year old who is writing for a class project.

You see what I mean. I know Drummond. But who is to say who is Ryan? Do you know his age? Do you know his occupation? Is he a reputable source? Drummond publishes and can be sued for libel in both Thailand and Australia and probably a lot of other places. Ryan is maybe a 17 year old student or a fictitious person. I don't know. Do you?

T

Oh please...... This is not a 12 yr old schoolgirl topic. Google everything and you will see it is supported by Australian Governments and Tony exists They Grey or it's board are not ficticious they actually exist and consist of high profile Australian citizens including high court judges.

[Showbags]

Drummond is a well known Thai journalist.

• Fox Television
• Observer Film Company
• Observer
• News of the World
• Evening Standard/Daily Mail
• Fleet Street News Agency (TVNS)
• Reading Chronicle/Berkshire Mercury

Who is Tony Ryan?

You are so mixed up, you are trying to compare a part time / freelance journalist with the story he writes about a particular person. Who is Rupert Murdock and who is Sam Vandersam? What is your point? Drummond has been recognised as a person of false allegations and is banned from many media outlets and social networks. What is your point?

I think you missed my point. I know who Drummond is and his story is published all over the place. No disrespect but I heard Tony Ryan is an 17 year old who is writing for a class project.

You see what I mean. I know Drummond. But who is to say who is Ryan? Do you know his age? Do you know his occupation? Is he a reputable source? Drummond publishes and can be sued for libel in both Thailand and Australia and probably a lot of other places. Ryan is maybe a 17 year old student or a fictitious person. I don't know. Do you?

T

Oh please...... This is not a 12 yr old schoolgirl topic. Google everything and you will see it is supported by Australian Governments and Tony exists They Grey or it's board are not ficticious they actually exist and consist of high profile Australian citizens including high court judges.

Tony exists because he says so on the internet.

We do not know whom he is, I would love to know myself.

He very well could be real, or a greyman himself.