To Barack Obama: Mr President, some facts you should know about the Thai political crisis

[lineofentry]

What a load of BS. If you really want a democracy, get off your big fat lazy backsides and be a responsible and viable opposition that can convince the public to vote for you, not just a bunch of rent-a-mob, shoot from the hip, soundbite plonkers.

[Emptyset]

Well written and 100% true. Good to educate some of the westerners who talk a lot about 'democracy' but don't seem to know the crimes which include the murders done under the Shinawatras.

And yes, the democratic system here has failed miserably.

Not actually very well written (verbose and lacking in structure) but let that pass.As a rejoinder to the Congressman's letter it is a failure because it veers from point to point aimlessly, and lacks a clear conclusion.

It concentrates on the abuses of the Thaksin era but omits mentioning the complicity of the army and the unwillingness/inability of the Abhisit government to pursue justice on these issues.

Yes, as you say, some truth in it but most points could be disputed or nuanced with context. And I say that as someone who doesn't like Thaksin at all. It's like blaming Tak Bai on Thaksin's security forces when it was a military operation - would people blame Abhisit for the deaths of Rohingya that the Thai navy were responsible for? AV's stance on that wasn't much different from Thaksin's on Tak Bai. An inquest held under the Abhisit govt found that security officers had performed according to their duty and that no one was at fault.

War on drugs - ignoring the incorrect numbers that people keep using even when they've been pointed in the direction of the true figures - a horrific campaign and a crime against humanity. I hold Thaksin ultimately responsible. Yet it's far more complicated than blaming one man. Many involved, very few prosecuted. Junta and Abhisit also had opportunities to take this seriously and didn't. Why? Because it involved those on both sides now. If they could just nail Thaksin without implicating others, they would've done it. Many of the lower middle class now supporting Suthep were fully behind the campaign. Polls were uniformly positive at the time.

Most of the other could also be challenged to some extent. But what does Obama have to do with this anyway?

It seems people somehow feel Obama is backing Thaksin. When in reality the US just issued some generic statements support elections and calling for negotiations or whatever. As they always would in these situations. And as others have pointed out, the US Ambassador likely has a far better grasp of the situation than most, given he gets to hear what people actually think, off the record (assuming people actually still tell them things post-Wikileaks, lol).

[Jman73]

What a load of BS. If you really want a democracy, get off your big fat lazy backsides and be a responsible and viable opposition that can convince the public to vote for you, not just a bunch of rent-a-mob, shoot from the hip, soundbite plonkers.

As most of us that have spent more than a year here already know....This is land of fake smiles and half assed and everything else.......Best post yet LOL

[Jman73]

What a load of BS. If you really want a democracy, get off your big fat lazy backsides and be a responsible and viable opposition that can convince the public to vote for you, not just a bunch of rent-a-mob, shoot from the hip, soundbite plonkers.

As most of us that have spent more than a year here already know....This is land of fake smiles and half assed and everything else.......Best post yet LOL

[Thai at Heart]

I have michael yon subscribed to my Facebook. Seems that the propaganda wing of this protest are a lot more.organised. On his page right now there is some nonsense accusing the foreign western media of being beholden to Thaksin money.

This stuff is getting more nationalistic and bizarre by the day.

[looping]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

These are all facts that he's quoting.... so please enlighten us what you think should be done.

1. Hold an election.

2. Abide by the results.

By all means press for reform, but not after you have overthrown an elected government and replaced it with a neofascist regime. No one can possibly imagine there will be anything resembling a free and fair election once Suthep and his bunch of well heeled and well connected thugs get their paws on the levers of power

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you agree that refusing to have a public debate would be unacceptable, before the election (as YL did before)?

[Thai at Heart]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

These are all facts that he's quoting.... so please enlighten us what you think should be done.

1. Hold an election.

2. Abide by the results.

By all means press for reform, but not after you have overthrown an elected government and replaced it with a neofascist regime. No one can possibly imagine there will be anything resembling a free and fair election once Suthep and his bunch of well heeled and well connected thugs get their paws on the levers of power

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Would you agree that refusing to have a public debate would be unacceptable, before the election (as YL did before)?

Public debates are overrated. Debate what? This isn't a presidential election anyway.

[marstons]

Obviously the Author knows little of what goes on outside Thailand, she needs to check out who Saddam etc had stand against them in the elections, 1 party 1 vote, no other parties hence no Democracy or choice. As for his statement about most tyrannical dictator in history she needs to check up on the like's of Hitler, Pol Pot and the Pilsbury Dough Boy from North Korea who just fed somebody alive to a pack of dogs.

If the letter makes it past the White House loo it will be doing well. Does she really think Obama gives a rats arse about what she thinks.

Edited January 20, 2014 by marstons

[OMGImInPattaya]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

Yep...must have got his law degree at one of those online night law schools.

[tingtongteesood]

Very good. Someone please translate into Thai and distribute in the north east immediately. In fact I wish this letter went further in listing some more violations including those recently committed by the Please Toxin party.....

[diceq]

Very good. Someone please translate into Thai and distribute in the north east immediately. In fact I wish this letter went further in listing some more violations including those recently committed by the Please Toxin party.....

You mean some more made up ones. You guys are hilarious.

[rickirs]

Obama after reading the letter - "But Thaksin is not the Prime Minister nor even in Thailand. What's the matter with these protesters? And they want to replace an elected government with a communist-type committee and call it democracy?"

[casualbiker]

Obama after reading the letter - "But Thaksin is not the Prime Minister nor even in Thailand. What's the matter with these protesters? And they want to replace an elected government with a communist-type committee and call it democracy?"

Then we would have to say.. fella the only communists are in the UDD and that's Thaksins bought and paid for lot.

[LadPhrao123]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

probably very young or showing off , trying to be clever, living abroad, new to Thailand and just plain ignorant

Close but backwards, this describes the simplistic pro-Suthep anti Thaksin TV members to a "T".

[michaeljordan]

Just hit Thailand with trade sanctions and put out arrest warrents for the ruling class and generals from the Hague.

The generals would look cute in the jail like Mlochivich was.

[tomyummer]

Poor girl has got some balls. Sorry to say she's just dug her own grave.

Of course the US knows what's going on, but it has a much bigger picture in mind than whatever value the Thai population or culture is worth to them. They want their military base, Chevron project in the gulf, and a better hold than China.

[ThaiWest]

Clearly Mr. Vanina Sucharitkul is not current on politics here in the US (where I am a citizen and reside) or he wouldn't be expecting this government to be stepping in to stop another government from doing many of the same things the current US government is guilty of. Sad.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[Baerboxer]

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand.

Absolutely right

"Thaksin aided his wife to purchase government land at a reduced rate of 1/3 in violation of the law prohibiting political leaders from engaging in business dealings with the government. Thaksin was sentenced to two years but fled the country and never served his sentence."

Again this lawyer repeats PAD propoganda that is completely untrue.

The land was not sold for 1/3 of it's value.

There was a public auction.

There were 3 approved bids.

Podjaman outbid Land and House to acquire the land.

The FIDC and the bank of thailand had no objection in selling the land to her.

The issue taken up by the PAD and through the ASC was that she was married to the PM and that in their view the land was state owned and no state official could buy it.

But then

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand

And Thaksin was so innocent of this outrageous politically motivated charge, trial and conviction, that he chose to flee the country and become a fugitive rather than prove his innocence. The many outstanding criminal charges should also be swept aside along with any allegations of HR violations.

The US and the rest of the world must sure see Thaksin is innocent, never robbed the country and even paid off the IMF loan from his personal wealth. This astute and honest business man has grown his wealth 450% during the time his proxy party have governed Thailand, implementing populist policies he designed and seemingly bankrupting the country and begging for loans.

Why should Thaksin bother to contest all these things in a court of law? His family run the country and besides, everyone knows he's innocent.

His wise sister will whitewash all these silly inconveniences away soon, and he can return in triumph and the meek shall inherit Thailand, all be rich in 6 months!

Dream on Parrot.

[NHT]

Well written and 100% true. Good to educate some of the westerners who talk a lot about 'democracy' but don't seem to know the crimes which include the murders done under the Shinawatras.

And yes, the democratic system here has failed miserably.

Not actually very well written (verbose and lacking in structure) but let that pass.As a rejoinder to the Congressman's letter it is a failure because it veers from point to point aimlessly, and lacks a clear conclusion.

It concentrates on the abuses of the Thaksin era but omits mentioning the complicity of the army and the unwillingness/inability of the Abhisit government to pursue justice on these issues.

Yes, as you say, some truth in it but most points could be disputed or nuanced with context. And I say that as someone who doesn't like Thaksin at all. It's like blaming Tak Bai on Thaksin's security forces when it was a military operation - would people blame Abhisit for the deaths of Rohingya that the Thai navy were responsible for? AV's stance on that wasn't much different from Thaksin's on Tak Bai. An inquest held under the Abhisit govt found that security officers had performed according to their duty and that no one was at fault.

War on drugs - ignoring the incorrect numbers that people keep using even when they've been pointed in the direction of the true figures - a horrific campaign and a crime against humanity. I hold Thaksin ultimately responsible. Yet it's far more complicated than blaming one man. Many involved, very few prosecuted. Junta and Abhisit also had opportunities to take this seriously and didn't. Why? Because it involved those on both sides now. If they could just nail Thaksin without implicating others, they would've done it. Many of the lower middle class now supporting Suthep were fully behind the campaign. Polls were uniformly positive at the time.

Most of the other could also be challenged to some extent. But what does Obama have to do with this anyway?

It seems people somehow feel Obama is backing Thaksin. When in reality the US just issued some generic statements support elections and calling for negotiations or whatever. As they always would in these situations. And as others have pointed out, the US Ambassador likely has a far better grasp of the situation than most, given he gets to hear what people actually think, off the record (assuming people actually still tell them things post-Wikileaks, lol).

Just look at the IQ around her. These are racists worse than the any other, and they would blame and kill their own family, if it was to get a buck for themselves. Can they spell Thaksin?

[diceq]

Just hit Thailand with trade sanctions and put out arrest warrents for the ruling class and generals from the Hague.

The generals would look cute in the jail like Mlochivich was.

Don't be silly. The International Court of Justice only prosecutes people who are enemies of NATO.

[LadPhrao123]

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand.

Absolutely right

"Thaksin aided his wife to purchase government land at a reduced rate of 1/3 in violation of the law prohibiting political leaders from engaging in business dealings with the government. Thaksin was sentenced to two years but fled the country and never served his sentence."

Again this lawyer repeats PAD propoganda that is completely untrue.

The land was not sold for 1/3 of it's value.

There was a public auction.

There were 3 approved bids.

Podjaman outbid Land and House to acquire the land.

The FIDC and the bank of thailand had no objection in selling the land to her.

The issue taken up by the PAD and through the ASC was that she was married to the PM and that in their view the land was state owned and no state official could buy it.

But then

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand

My god an actual fact in the face of the relentless fact free, disinformation campaign against Thaksin. This one about Thaksin's wife's land deal. Bravo sir.

Brace yourself for the tinfoil hat brigade of revolutionary anti-democratic western "freedom" fighters ready to give their desktop computers over and embrace the miasma, the fog of a yammering, demagoguing old fool ready to deliver Thailand not to a new future but back to the warm comfort of the keepers of feudal Thailand.

[Skint]

OP is just utter garbage, why anyone reads the political stuff on here is beyond me.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

Obama after reading the letter - "But Thaksin is not the Prime Minister nor even in Thailand. What's the matter with these protesters? And they want to replace an elected government with a communist-type committee and call it democracy?"

Then we would have to say.. fella the only communists are in the UDD and that's Thaksins bought and paid for lot.

Which makes them.capitalist communists????

Where is this crazy place, let's go see. Sounds like it could be entertaining.

[LadPhrao123]

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand.

Absolutely right

"Thaksin aided his wife to purchase government land at a reduced rate of 1/3 in violation of the law prohibiting political leaders from engaging in business dealings with the government. Thaksin was sentenced to two years but fled the country and never served his sentence."

Again this lawyer repeats PAD propoganda that is completely untrue.

The land was not sold for 1/3 of it's value.

There was a public auction.

There were 3 approved bids.

Podjaman outbid Land and House to acquire the land.

The FIDC and the bank of thailand had no objection in selling the land to her.

The issue taken up by the PAD and through the ASC was that she was married to the PM and that in their view the land was state owned and no state official could buy it.

But then

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand

And Thaksin was so innocent of this outrageous politically motivated charge, trial and conviction, that he chose to flee the country and become a fugitive rather than prove his innocence. The many outstanding criminal charges should also be swept aside along with any allegations of HR violations.

The US and the rest of the world must sure see Thaksin is innocent, never robbed the country and even paid off the IMF loan from his personal wealth. This astute and honest business man has grown his wealth 450% during the time his proxy party have governed Thailand, implementing populist policies he designed and seemingly bankrupting the country and begging for loans.

Why should Thaksin bother to contest all these things in a court of law? His family run the country and besides, everyone knows he's innocent.

His wise sister will whitewash all these silly inconveniences away soon, and he can return in triumph and the meek shall inherit Thailand, all be rich in 6 months!

Dream on Parrot.

I'm was always amazed that given the bent nature of justice in the post coup Thai government that anyone would wonder why Thaksin elected to remain outside Thailand and not risk even further "justice" by returning. But now in the ongoing and in your face months of watching the very 'flexible' Judicial, the Electoral Commission and the Military and shifting alliances it's astounding anyone would think Thaksin could enter Thailand and get a fair shake and review of the "outrageous politically motivated charge, trial and conviction" as you put it. Except to use his choice to remain free as a dramatic device to maintain the fact free drumbeat of the Thaksin haters which clearly you are.

[jackrich]

I think this is the reason why the "lawyer" in the original post wrote to Congressman Turner:

And I have to say, Michael R. Turner is absolutely correct. You cannot tell an elected government to leave office and be replaced by a "people's council" that a corrupt politician himself will put together based on his opinion.

If that should indeed happen (which we should all pray won't), I highly doubt that the US Government and other countries will recognize Suthep's "people's council" as the legitimate government of Thailand, which will cause even bigger problems in international trade and relations.

Edited January 20, 2014 by jackrich

[khunron13]

"The anti-government protesters are also pro-democracy."

So you want to throw out the duly elected current government and replace it with a non-elected group of cronies, and that's supposed to be pro-democracy? Well, that's the first time I've seen that definition of pro-democracy.

[visionchaser45]

"Well written and 100% true"

Actually, it is the biggest load of hi-so crap I've read in a long time. The anti-government folks want nothing at all to do with democracy. Their leader is extremely corrupt in his own right and, even if Thai politics became corruption free overnight, they can never win an election. During the term of Abhisit's propped-up regime they spent their time on charter amendments to help tip the election scales in their favor, to no avail. The only way they will ever come to power and hold onto it is by non-democratic means. An unelected fascist is no alternative to an elected fascist and an Oxford educated tyrant is no better than a square-faced one.

[Docno]

Some people protects the word “Democracy” as it if were something more sacred than their god, beyond good and evil. The truth is that under some democracies there are hiding the largest niches of corruption, abuse of power, labour rights abuse, destruction of the environment and natural resources, etc of this planet. But as far as they serve for their benefit, they protect them, even with war and blood.

It is the same as when the Crusades protected the name of the church in the Middle Ages. The Knights of Christ that beheaded the non-believers and prosecuted the heretics were convinced that they were fighting for a superior cause that would make the world a better place to live, named the Catholic Church.

Today it can still be called a ‘Crusade”; the only difference is that they have changed the name of God for the name of false democracies, in order to dominate and exploit this world.

Or another way of looking at it:

"Democracy is the worst form of government ... except for all the others" - Winston Churchill

Democracies are not perfect. They never have been ... even back to the day when Socrates was forced to drink hemlock by the democracy he'd been critical of. But I fail to see how military juntas or elitist oligarchies reliably provide better governance for the people. In most cases, they end up serving their own interests alone because they are not answerable to the people. I continue to be amazed at the number of people here (not necessarily you) who are calling for a coup or other forms of non-democratic usurpation of power...

[Docno]

surely it couldn't be the same person? They aren't THAT stupid are they?

https://twitter.com/princessvanina

You missed her Youtube singing debut... A female Justin Bieber in the wings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEaqGqd9b_g

Edited January 20, 2014 by Docno