Thai Wife Getting British Passport Then Returning To Thailand

[sotonfarang]

Hi I am about to apply for a british passport for my thai wife and would like to find out if the uk would let her renew it when it expires if she leaves the uk as soon as she gets it.

 

we are looking to live in Thailand for a few years so that our 5 year old daughter can learn the thai culture and language but are worried about my wife then not being able to ever return to the uk to live without starting the whole visa process again.

 

she has right to remain to leave at the moment,does this ever expire?

 

I am hoping that once she gets a british passport she we can go to Thailand for a few years and then return hassle free to the uk.for holidays or to live again.

o

if we stay in Thailand a bit longer and she needs to renew her british passport but has lived in Thailand for the whole life of the original passport will the uk be happy to .

 

does anybody have any info on this please?

 

would she need to live in the uk for some time inbetween or maybe just return to the uk to renew it.

 

advice will be greatly appreciated,thanks.

Edited February 10, 2014 by metisdead
Please do not post using all caps. Topic title edited to remove all caps.

[howerde]

Once your wife has a passport, then it does not matter how long she is out the country, but for say NHS cover she needs to be habitually resident in uk. A passport can be renewedfrom Thailand  no need to return to UK.

Edited February 10, 2014 by howerde

[cassde]

Ensure that your wife uses her BP to leave the UK and enter Thailand, she will then have no problem re-entering the UK with the same passport or renewing it from Thailand - it will remain valid for 10 years.

[Jay Sata]

And with her new passport she is just as British as you with all the rights that brings.

 

Congratulations and good luck with your plans.

[TerryLH]

"Ensure that your wife uses her BP to leave the UK and enter Thailand,..."

 

I think that would be a foolish thing to do.  If she enters on a non Thai passport she will fall under immigration laws. Including overstay fines, if it came to that.

 

Best to leave UK using her new UK passport, but showing airline her Thai passport so they know she doesn't need a Thai visa.  

UK passport to immigration.  Once on the plane put the UK passport away until she returns to UK.

 

In and out of UK with UK passport.  

In and out of Thailand with Thai passport.

 

[Jay Sata]

Excellent advice.

 

And never show Thai immigration both passports.

[Waterloo]

unless I am missing something your wife currently has ILR & has not yet received citizenship, to apply for a passport she needs to have citizenship.

 

ILR as does not expire but if you spend to long out of the country it can be revoked.

Citizenship cannot be revoked unless under exceptional circumstances like terrorism. 

 

I am sure 7by7 will be along shortly with a more fuller & eloquent explanation.

[bobrussell]

If your wife has been naturalised there are no significant limits on where she lives or how long. A passport can only be removed under extreme conditions such as convictions for terrorism!

ILR will lapse after 2 years living outside the UK but a visa holder will generally be allowed to enter as a visitor (and must leave!). I don't know of any mechanism to restore ILR without going back to the country of residence and reapplying.

A British passport issued to a naturalised citizen is to all intents and purposes the same as a citizen by birth. No worries if you chose to live abroad.

Absolutely your wife should not enter Thailand except on her Thai passport. If she does she will have the same restrictions you will have!

Show both passports to check in but no need to show the British passport to Thai immigration. It can only complicate matters!

[theoldgit]

This may help http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/settlement/returning-residents/

[nonthaburial]

"Ensure that your wife uses her BP to leave the UK and enter Thailand,..."
 
I think that would be a foolish thing to do.  If she enters on a non Thai passport she will fall under immigration laws. Including overstay fines, if it came to that.
 
Best to leave UK using her new UK passport, but showing airline her Thai passport so they know she doesn't need a Thai visa.  
UK passport to immigration.  Once on the plane put the UK passport away until she returns to UK.
 
In and out of UK with UK passport.  
In and out of Thailand with Thai passport.
 

This begs a question, traveling with my Chinese wife in and out of the UK, on her Chinese passport, with a UK five year visa, We have never yet gone through an exit immigration procedure at Heathrow T3, is generally check in, go through security and basically that's it. I have been told not officially, that your airline when you check in, scans your passport which is then used by both airlines and immigration.

If this is the case, then the passport you use at check in becomes very important

[sbf]

Getting the Citizenship is the key stage as far as I can see. Does your wife have Esol 3 and has she completed the Life in the UK test successfully? These are now prerequisites to obtaining citizenship. If not you will need to allow some time for the two above. Also I believe that there is a wait of over 6 months once your application goes in until a decision is made at present. This is somewhat faster than the eighteen months which it was a decade ago, but still makes it difficult to plan move dates, schooling etc. Once granted by the home office your wife will have to go to a citizenship ceremony, but I think that these are fairly regular, best to talk to your local county authority, they often have someone who can give advice on these matters, check the application form etc.

[sotonfarang]

Thank you so much for all your feedback, its been very helpful.

 

My wifes citienship application, complete with esol and Life in the UK test is currently being processed, its been 3 months so far, hopefull will not be much longer.

She will then do a ceremony at our local civic offices to gain a certificate which is needed to apply for her passport.

 

Then its my turn!    Applying for my Thai visa is the next major hurdle after this one. Wish me luck !

 

Great news that once she has a british passport its for life,. The only terror offences she commits are usually only against me so should be okay 

 

[Richard W]

If your wife has been naturalised there are no significant limits on where she lives or how long. A passport can only be removed under extreme conditions such as convictions for terrorism!

Passports can be removed for football hooliganism and for sex offences. For a British citizen to have a British passport is a privilege, not a right, though I believe the courts have ruled that there must be a good reason to deny a citizen a passport. I don't know if the courts would allow a Home Secretary to keep a citizen out of the UK by refusing him a British passport.

I am not aware of any one being deprived of British citizenship subsequent to a conviction for terrorism. A reasonable belief by the Home Secretary that one is involved in terrorism (which I believe covers any act of armed rebellion against any governnment) is sufficient. In law, the Home Secretary merely needs to be satisfied that deprivation of British citizenship would be conducive to the public good - learned legal advice is that this is the same test as for deporting a foreigner.

European countries have had laws depriving citizens (sometimes even native-born citizens) of citizenship for living abroad for too long, and I am not aware of anything that would stop the UK from adopting such a law. Unhappily, it would be consistent with the introduction of automatic withdrawal of ILR after two years leave.

[Richard W]

One of the requirements for naturalisation as British is that, roughly speaking, one intends to continue living in the UK. Naturalising as British to keep open the option of returning to the UK is an abuse of the system - and might be counted as deception. Member Sotonfarang would be well advised to keep his identity secret.

Personally, my feeling is that it is the prompt curtailment of absentees' ILR that is wrong.

[sotonfarang]

One of the requirements for naturalisation as British is that, roughly speaking, one intends to continue living in the UK. Naturalising as British to keep open the option of returning to the UK is an abuse of the system - and might be counted as deception. Member Sotonfarang would be well advised to keep his identity secret.

Personally, my feeling is that it is the prompt curtailment of absentees' ILR that is wrong.

 

 

are you trying to worry me? 

 

i am sure that there are bigger abuses of the system going on, i am simply assuring against me being seperated from my family . i dont wish to abuse the system but can find no other way to move forward.

[7by7]

There is no such requirement that I can find in any of the guidance.

 

RichardW, if it does exist,  can you provide a link to it.

[Richard W]

Naturalising as British to keep open the option of returning to the UK is an abuse of the system - and might be counted as deception.

are you trying to worry me?

Yes. I am advising you to keep your identity secret. I do not trust the Home Office.

[Richard W]

There is no such requirement that I can find in any of the guidance.
 
RichardW, if it does exist,  can you provide a link to it.

British Nationality Act 1981 Schedule 1 Paragraph 1(d):

(i)his intentions are such that, in the event of a certificate of naturalisation as a British citizen being granted to him, his home or (if he has more than one) his principal home will be in the United Kingdom; or
(ii)he intends, in the event of such a certificate being granted to him, to enter into, or continue in, Crown service under the government of the United Kingdom, or service under an international organisation of which the United Kingdom or Her Majestys government therein is a member, or service in the employment of a company or association established in the United Kingdom.

This is also cited in Section 18.2.1.1 of the Nationality Instructions.

[7by7]

Yes, but Section 6 (1) is not the relevant section for the spouse or civil partner of a British citizen.
 
They come under Section 6 (2), and if you read further on in both your links you will see that no such condition applies to Section 6 (2) applicants.

sotonfarang, assuming you are a British citizen, as your wife's application comes under Section 6 (2) there is no legal reason why she could not leave her citizenship ceremony and head straight to the airport for a flight to Thailand in order to live there.

 

Though it would probably be better for her to get her British passport first, as in UK applications are cheaper and probably processed quicker than overseas ones.

[Richard W]

Yes, but Section 6 (1) is not the relevant section for the spouse or civil partner of a British citizen.
 
They come under Section 6 (2), and if you read further on in both your links you will see that no such condition applies to Section 6 (2) applicants.

 

I'm glad to see I was wrong on this point.
 

[sotonfarang]

therefore i am assuming that when i book flight out , book it with my wifes thai passport, enter thailand on thai passport and when returning to the uk book flight with british passport,use british passport to enter uk.

 

do this for my wife and daughter.

[7by7]

Obviously the flights should be booked in their names; which I assume will be the same on both passports.

 

Though for a brief period my wife had a Thai passport in her maiden name and a British one in her married name. This did cause a bit of confusion at check in, so she showed them both passports.

 

Remember, the main concern of the airline is whether or not the passenger has the right documents to be allowed in at their destination, the airlines are subject to large fines if they knowingly carry a passenger who doesn't.

 

They should use their Thai passports at Thai immigration, both entering and leaving, and their British ones at British immigration, usually just on entering as passports are very rarely checked by immigration when leaving the UK..

[Richard W]

therefore i am assuming that when i book flight out , book it with my wifes thai passport, enter thailand on thai passport and when returning to the uk book flight with british passport,use british passport to enter uk.

 

do this for my wife and daughter.

 

If you're going for a trip that would be covered by the 30 day exemption, you would currently be better off making the booking using the British passports.  I don't believe you can book with separate passports for separate legs of the round-trip journey.  It seems that the airlines have to report both booking and check-in information (Advance Passenger Information) to the destination country if it wants it, but that Thailand does not currently want this information.

 

If the British government sees Thais leaving but Britons returning, they might ask about the discrepancy.  Much worse, there have been calls in the House of Lords for Britons using foreign passports not declared to the UK government (e.g. when applying for a British passport) to have their British passports cancelled.

 

Things may get really nasty if governments do the equivalent of document checks at boarding using just the booking information.  One hopes common sense will prevail.
 

[MAJIC]

unless I am missing something your wife currently has ILR & has not yet received citizenship, to apply for a passport she needs to have citizenship.

 

ILR as does not expire but if you spend to long out of the country it can be revoked.

Citizenship cannot be revoked unless under exceptional circumstances like terrorism. 

 

I am sure 7by7 will be along shortly with a more fuller & eloquent explanation.

 

Yes! you spotted the same thing as I did,you can't get a British Passport until you have British Citizenship!

 

And from the OPs explaination certainly sounds like she has ILR "she has right to remain to leave at the moment,does this ever expire?"

Edited August 4, 2014 by MAJIC

[7by7]

To be fair to the OP, many people say "apply for a British passport" as shorthand for 'apply for naturalisation and then a British passport."

[7by7]

Richard W, I don't know why you are so intent upon worrying the OP and others in the same position.

 

As I said above, at one time my wife had a Thai passport in her maiden name and a British passport in her married one. We booked round trip tickets in her married name and when checking in to leave the UK simply overcame this name discrepancy between her Thai passport and her ticket by showing the airline check in desk both passports.

 

On leaving Thailand she showed her British passport to the airline when checking in, to show she did not need a UK visa, and her Thai passport to Thai immigration to show she was a Thai citizen and so had not overstayed. Had immigration wanted to see her boarding pass as well then, again she could easily have cleared up the name difference by showing tem her British passport.

 

Of course, if both passports are in the same name, which I think it's fair to assume is the case for the majority of dual citizens, then this wont be an issue.

,

Both Thailand and the UK allow dual nationality. So entering and leaving Thailand with a Thai passport and entering and leaving the UK with a British one is not going to cause any problems, even if either government does finds out, unless either government changes their position on dual nationality which is extremely unlikely.

 

As question 1.9 on form AN asks about the applicant's other nationality(ies) then unless the applicant makes a false declaration on the form any move such as that suggested by the House of Lords wont effect them. Of course, if an applicant does make any false declaration then, in my opinion, they deserve to be stripped not only of their British passport, but their British nationality as well; which the current law allows.

[sotonfarang]

yes she has ILR already and we sent off her application for for citizenship 3 months ago, they quote 6 months maximum for an answer.

 

once or if she gets citizenship she can then attend a ceremony, once this is done, she can apply for a passport.