Issues with paternity and gaining parental rights

[arnold40844]

I am hoping someone here can give me some sort of clarity around this predicament. It seems there is a lot of conflicting information from certain parties.

I live in Thailand I live with my girlfriend (not married), we have 2 children 1 and 4. I am on my sons birth certificate but not my 4 year old daughters. I was in the UK when she was born and did not get the documents over in time. I have lived with them their entire lives and my girlfriend and I are getting married next month.

We had been trying to marry sooner but apparently we cant get married until I am on my daughters birth certificate as her father, we have been down several unsuccessful routes to do this with no success, Amphur, hush money etc.. It would appear that the only option I now have and something we're doing tomorrow morning is to get a DNA test. At first they said they would need to test us all, at 8000 baht each, at which point I got shouty and sweary. I mean a surgeon removed my daughter from my girlfriend in a hospital, it cost me 80k and she is on the birth certificate. After a bit of an argument they agreed to just test me and my daughter at a cost of 16000 baht, plus tea money. They said that if we got married before I was on the birth certificate it was be almost impossible to add myself at a later date, it causes me great pain to even think about how stupid this sounds, but that is what they said.

My issue with this is basically. I have paid for every pair of shoes my daughter has worn, I send her to a decent international school, I have changed her nappies, taken her to the doctors when she is unwell, we have setup up savings accounts for their higher education etc. Now other than the philosophical argument that could be made here, i.e. what constitutes being a parent in this country.. As anyone can make a child but that does not make them a parent. What if my girlfriend was raped? What if by some crazy unforeseen turn of events I am not the biological father and that he is a retired Belgian fisherman residing in the outer Hebrides. Would I never be able to be the legal parent?

The main question I have here is. Is this the right way to go or are they just taking me for a ride? Why will the Amphur only sometimes take the child's word for it at 4 years old? Can I go to another Amphur? Is anything I have been told up to this point true and accurate?

Any suggestions would be great, I cant actually believe the cost and the fact that it takes 60 days is just insane. Any experiences or help would be great. We have been a happy family for 5 years and this is just taking the biscuit. My daughter is fluent in Thai and English, given the chance she will explain to anyone in whatever language who her father is.

[slightlychilled]

As anyone can make a child but that does not make them a parent.

You've answered your own question. A birth certificate requires a biological parent and any four year old would claim that anyone who had raised her for the past 4 years of her life as her father would be her parent - it doesn't however make him her biological father. I do find it strange that your girlfriend did not register you as the biological father as after all she should know, surely had the right to do so and would be aware that there was only a limited amount of time to do so.

What if by some crazy unforeseen turn of events I am not the biological father and that he is a retired Belgian fisherman residing in the outer Hebrides. Would I never be able to be the legal parent?
A DNA test could only determine the fact that you were not the father but could not identify the real father. In that case your only option to be a legal parent would be through adoption with your girlfriend stating that she did not know who the real father was. For birth certificate purposes, a DNA test is the only way to conclusively prove that you are the biological father. You've waited 4 years for whatever reasons so I don't think another 60 days is going to make alot of difference.

Edited March 2, 2015 by slightlychilled

[arnold40844]

I was in the UK at the time of my daughters birth, I had lost my job in London, we lost the flat, she went back to Thailand the plan was for me to head out after a few months, did not happen. I had a limited amount of time to get the documents over, had to apply for a new passport and birth certificate as they were lost. I did not take it to seriously if im honest, just figured I would sort it out when I was in the country. 6 months after the birth they came back to the UK, we were there for 18 months, now we are back in Thailand and seems we have been trying to sort it out for 2 years.

If I wait till my daughter is 7 they just take her word for it right? Im ust so sick of nonsense. The law does not state an age, so I take it that its at the discretion of some single figure IQ minimum wager with a clip board? What i dont understand is.. Is it 7, 6, 5, 4, I have heard stories of 3 being fine. I would be happy to hand them 20k tomorrow if they can just sort this out. I just want to know what it will take.

My paternity is not in question here. I just want to know how I am supposed to move forward, they seem hesitant even with DNA.

As anyone can make a child but that does not make them a parent.

You've answered your own question. A birth certificate requires a biological parent and any four year old would claim that anyone who had raised her for the past 4 years of her life as her father would be her parent - it doesn't however make him her biological father. I do find it strange that your girlfriend did not register you as the biological father as after all she should know, surely had the right to do so and would be aware that there was only a limited amount of time to do so.

What if by some crazy unforeseen turn of events I am not the biological father and that he is a retired Belgian fisherman residing in the outer Hebrides. Would I never be able to be the legal parent?
A DNA test could only determine the fact that you were not the father but could not identify the real father. In that case your only option to be a legal parent would be through adoption with your girlfriend stating that she did not know who the real father was. For birth certificate purposes, a DNA test is the only way to conclusively prove that you are the biological father. You've waited 4 years for whatever reasons so I don't think another 60 days is going to make alot of difference.

[arnold40844]

One key question here that I would like answered is.. They were saying that we could not get married until this is sorted and that if we did it would nearly impossible to sort out further down the line.. Can this be true? I mean if I am the biological father, married to the mother with another child, could it really be that difficult to sort out?

I was in the UK at the time of my daughters birth, I had lost my job in London, we lost the flat, she went back to Thailand the plan was for me to head out after a few months, did not happen. I had a limited amount of time to get the documents over, had to apply for a new passport and birth certificate as they were lost. I did not take it to seriously if im honest, just figured I would sort it out when I was in the country. 6 months after the birth they came back to the UK, we were there for 18 months, now we are back in Thailand and seems we have been trying to sort it out for 2 years.

If I wait till my daughter is 7 they just take her word for it right? Im ust so sick of nonsense. The law does not state an age, so I take it that its at the discretion of some single figure IQ minimum wager with a clip board? What i dont understand is.. Is it 7, 6, 5, 4, I have heard stories of 3 being fine. I would be happy to hand them 20k tomorrow if they can just sort this out. I just want to know what it will take.

My paternity is not in question here. I just want to know how I am supposed to move forward, they seem hesitant even with DNA.

As anyone can make a child but that does not make them a parent.

You've answered your own question. A birth certificate requires a biological parent and any four year old would claim that anyone who had raised her for the past 4 years of her life as her father would be her parent - it doesn't however make him her biological father. I do find it strange that your girlfriend did not register you as the biological father as after all she should know, surely had the right to do so and would be aware that there was only a limited amount of time to do so.

What if by some crazy unforeseen turn of events I am not the biological father and that he is a retired Belgian fisherman residing in the outer Hebrides. Would I never be able to be the legal parent?
A DNA test could only determine the fact that you were not the father but could not identify the real father. In that case your only option to be a legal parent would be through adoption with your girlfriend stating that she did not know who the real father was. For birth certificate purposes, a DNA test is the only way to conclusively prove that you are the biological father. You've waited 4 years for whatever reasons so I don't think another 60 days is going to make alot of difference.

[phazey]

I have no advice, but you already sound like a good father to her, biological or not..

[kannot]

go to a different office and do it there, chances are you will get a different answer completely

[Rooo]

Moved to family & children.

[benalibina]

go to a different office and do it there, chances are you will get a different answer completely

Good chances they will give you a more favourable answer. To add...go see a lawyer, specialized in family law....a couple..they should know.....one thinks

[arnold40844]

Apparently I have to go to the one on the blue book, you cannot just pick an Amphur.... This is what I have been told anyway.

[Mario2008]

You can not become the legal father through the amphur, given the age of the children. See: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

That means there are only two options open:

- marriage

and

- petitioning the court

Apparently the amphur wants a DNA test in order to change the birth certificate allowing you to become the legal father through marriage. (I do not know if being named on the birth certificate is a requirement to become the legal father through marriage. You could contact a lawyer or the department of provincial administration www.dopa.go.th They have an information number.).

But you do have another option, which is petitioning the court. The court may want a DNA test also, and you would meet with a social worker who report to the court and have an appearance in court. The process will take a few months but if needed could be done after the marriage.

[Boo]

Who is named as father then on the BC?

[arnold40844]

No one is named on the BC currently. All sorted this morning anyway, did the test, slipped the guy 2k to put an urgent stamp on it stating limited time on visa. Should all be sorted in good time hopefully. Thanks for all your comments.

[Sawan Chan 7]

You can get married without being the father on your daughter's BC. They are definitely taking you for a ride.

[Sawan Chan 7]

No one is named on the BC currently. All sorted this morning anyway, did the test, slipped the guy 2k to put an urgent stamp on it stating limited time on visa. Should all be sorted in good time hopefully. Thanks for all your comments.

No wonder they are taking you for a ride if you throw that kind of money around.

[mrmicbkktxl]

u will need a lawyer,he will know if u need dna test,after that u will need to go to family court .they will decide.birth certificate not to imoprtant in thailand.be warned the whole thing takes a while.in my case it was 10months until all done.costs around 15000bt(12yrs ago)

[mango66]

I had done it with my daughter 5 years old, it was requested that she can sign the document;

Same time the boy with 9,

all done in 3 hrs on my Amphur in BKK;

( You can do it only where your blue book is valid; )

Same day and same time i also got the yellow book;

Both are my real kids,

I havnt been in thailand for both birth,

but when I went to the Hospital,

my name were put on birth certificates;

No DNA requested;

Maybee as my daughter on the kids yard orderd me how to play and she found an english book

and she blarred, papa this is english! you can read it :-))) ;;

[Mario2008]

I had done it with my daughter 5 years old, it was requested that she can sign the document;

Same time the boy with 9,

all done in 3 hrs on my Amphur in BKK;

( You can do it only where your blue book is valid; )

Same day and same time i also got the yellow book;

Both are my real kids,

I havnt been in thailand for both birth,

but when I went to the Hospital,

my name were put on birth certificates;

No DNA requested;

Maybee as my daughter on the kids yard orderd me how to play and she found an english book

and she blarred, papa this is english! you can read it :-))) ;;

Their age was the key factor in being able to do it at the amphur. The OP's children are only 1 and 4 years old, effectively ruling out legitimisation by consent from mother AND child.

[maidee]

marry your GF and then adopt your own daughter?