Camronwit's gun found to be unregistered

[Soutpeel]

And what happened to the situation where his son was supposedly flying to Japan to show legal registration papers of the gun?

little white lies perhaps....?

Cop shop in Japan Certain EX Thai copper banging his hands on the table, "do you know who I am, I have paper show gun mine, mistake mistake, I mistake...!!!!!."

Japanese copper "OK show us the papers then ?"

Woops...

[rametindallas]

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan

From the OP (second to last paragraph): Camronwit's aide had earlier said that the former top cop usually packed his medication in checked-in luggage, but the day he was arrested in Tokyo, his medication bag was in his hand luggage. The pistol was found in his medication bag.

There may have been confusion before but this statement makes it clear that Japanese authorities found it in his 'hand luggage' which cannot be confused with 'checked in luggage'. They found the gun in his 'hand luggage' which is the same as a carry-on bag which means he was attempting to bring a loaded, five-shot, revolver into the passenger cabin of a commercial aircraft.

Even if Japan wanted to be lenient, they can't now as this would make them look like they valued passenger safety as secondary to the special treatment of a foreign VIP. The Japanese authorities are dragging the proceedings out as this is very difficult/uncomfortable for them but, in the end, the world is watching and they will have to do what is correct.

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

Also from the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold.

The presence of Arabic numbers does not, in any way, refer to where the gun was manufactured but are serial numbers stamped into the gun's frame to denote the market to which it was sold. North American Arms is a specialty gun manufacturer with only one factory and that is in Provo, Utah. You Tube has video tours of the (one and only) factory.

Here is what Arabic numerals look like:

arabic numerals.jpg

Because of the presence of Arabic numerals in the identifying serial number of this particular hand gun, this is clearly not a gun that would/could have been legally sold in Thailand hence, no paperwork or legal registration. Dubai uses Arabic numerals. Did this gun come from Dubai, maybe? Precious, indeed! Kamronwit just might have carried the 'loyalty/devotion' thing too far this time.

Another note: Since Muslims, by and large, are not permitted into Japan except on tourist visas, it is highly unlikely the gun was acquired in Japan.

.

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

[jaidam]

I hope they have taken away his shoe laces and belt. Would not want to see him get out of this mess so easily and quickly.

[konying]

Just wondering , should he also be charged once or if he arrives back in Thailand?

After all he is in possession of unregistered firearm, also an offence in Thailand, not to mention tax evasion

[Soutpeel]

Just wondering , should he also be charged once or if he arrives back in Thailand?

After all he is in possession of unregistered firearm, also an offence in Thailand, not to mention tax evasion

When he gets out of the Japanese jail, on arrival back in Thailand, he should at least be charged with being a half wit.

but yes would think he has committed crimes in two separate countries

[halloween]

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

How would "arabic" numerals indicate the country where the gun was sold? There are over 20 where is Arabic is spoken. Whereas a 2 letter code can define any country.

"the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters........... identifying the country in which the gun was sold." There is no specific reference to the numbers ONLY identifying the country.

Edited June 28, 2015 by halloween

[Soutpeel]

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

How would "arabic" numerals indicate the country where the gun was sold? There are over 20 where is Arabic is spoken. Whereas a 2 letter code can define any country.

it wouldn't, but some people on here are hell bent on linking this case to "Dubai" for some reason...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Wow... and the plot thickens..

1. Wasn't it the Thai police spokesman who, in various prior news reports, confirmed that the gun WAS supposedly registered in Thailand? Did they actually confirm that themselves by checking records, or was he just repeating what Kamronwit was reported to be saying in Japan?

Prawut [Thai police spokesman] stressed that the weapon in question had been legally registered and Camronwit had been in possession of it for a long time before he retired. "The gun is very small, a little bigger than a car key chain," he said.

and

However, Thai police spokesman Pol Gen Prawut Thawornsiri told reporters that Camronwit had the gun from long before he retired. His son is now in Japan to show a registration document to Japanese police.

And from yesterday's reports:

The source disclosed that the North American Arms .22-calbre gun was a gift from one of Camronwit's friends.

"He has now assigned a close|aide to contact his friend to get the registration papers for the gun, which will be used as evidence," the source said.

2. Kamronwit was reported to have said the gun was a gift that he'd had for a long time, prior to his leaving the police force. But AFAIK, he's never been reported to have said WHO or WHERE was the friend who gave him the gun, if that story is even true.

3. AFAIK, the fact that the gun may not have been registered in Thailand doesn't mean anything in terms of whether he did or did not carry it with him thru Swampy on the outbound flight. Maybe he did in fact carry an unregistered/illegal gun in his checked luggage as he supposedly claimed originally. Or maybe he's lying about the whole thing and got the gun while in Japan. No way to know based on what's been made public thus far.

Edited June 28, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Nigeone]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Am I reading this right?

You are trying to bring Thaksin into this story?

Seriously?

Wow!

Just wow!

I don't know how your reading it to be honest...I asked a question...based on what's been reported and the statement that Arabic and English numbers are on the gun....as another poster has put quite clearly why differentiate between the words English and Arabic ...this would then lead to any normal thinking person to ask where the ex BiB would get a gun 'possibly' from a Arabic country...I am looking in at a situation as is everyone else...if the reports are true?? And the gun has come from a Arabic country which country would you suggest it might have come from .? And from who...just a thought....I don't have agenda whatsoever but I do know what I believe to be right and wrong...and this situation is very wrong and unlike in Thailand I hope he gets what he deserves ..that's it...no red shirt yellow shirt stuff...just right and wrong...is that clear for you

[rametindallas]

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

How would "arabic" numerals indicate the country where the gun was sold? There are over 20 where is Arabic is spoken. Whereas a 2 letter code can define any country.

"the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters........... identifying the country in which the gun was sold." There is no specific reference to the numbers ONLY identifying the country.

The manufacturer stamps Arabic serial numbers into the frame of guns sold to Arabic countries so that Arabic speaking authorities can track the gun within their Arabic speaking country. What's so difficult to understand? The gun was sold to an Arabic country and a 2 letter code defined which country (your words).

.

.

[Artisi]

More than likely he brought the weapon into Thailand illegal while he was still a big wheel copper returning from a previous trip after meeting with his "big brother".

[rametindallas]

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

How would "arabic" numerals indicate the country where the gun was sold? There are over 20 where is Arabic is spoken. Whereas a 2 letter code can define any country.

it wouldn't, but some people on here are hell bent on linking this case to "Dubai" for some reason...

It's not like Lord Voldemort na Dubai wouldn't give his special agent such a thoughtful and appreciated gift. It seems that Kamronwit couldn't part with it even though the chances of discovery were high. I'm sure,during the trial, that the origin of the gun will be revealed and my guess will be proven right or wrong. I think I'm allowed to speculate since everyone else is.

.

[MobileContent]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Arabic numbers are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 - As far as I know their are used most of the time in the Western world as well.

[cooked]

All I can work out is: no problem for an ex-high ranking police officer to get through customs in Thailand with a gun. Secondly he took a gun to Japan with the intention of committing a crime (or removing a large amount of cash from a bank account or elsewhere). Thirdly the gun is unregistered so, Sherlock, what are we to conclude.

I can't really say that I care where the gun came from originally.

[Nigeone]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Arabic numbers are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 - As far as I know their are used most of the time in the Western world as well.

If you see....0.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9. Etc..printed on a object would you call them Arabic numbers? no you wouldn't

To make the point of English and Arabic numbers in the report would indicate once again as another poster has mentioned the 'other' Arabic alphabet was present..otherwise how could you make that statement ..

[halloween]

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

How would "arabic" numerals indicate the country where the gun was sold? There are over 20 where is Arabic is spoken. Whereas a 2 letter code can define any country.

"the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters........... identifying the country in which the gun was sold." There is no specific reference to the numbers ONLY identifying the country.

The manufacturer stamps Arabic serial numbers into the frame of guns sold to Arabic countries so that Arabic speaking authorities can track the gun within their Arabic speaking country. What's so difficult to understand? The gun was sold to an Arabic country and a 2 letter code defined which country (your words).

.

.

Why? Why would a western country bother to use specific location numerals when the letters provide the country location, rather than numerals that can be read and understood by almost every person on the planet. Do Thai guns use Thai numerals?

Even Russian manufacturers don't bother to use Cyrillic numbers on their products, nor do the Chinese use Chinese numerals.

[rametindallas]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Arabic numbers are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 - As far as I know their are used most of the time in the Western world as well.

Those are 'Westernized' Arabic numbers. The OP says Arabic numbers. example below of Arabic numbers that would be stamped on a gun to be sold in an Arabic speaking country where they use Arabic numbers so Arabic authorities can read the serial numbers. Dubai, for example.

Edited June 28, 2015 by rametindallas

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'd just say...

If the OP report here turns out to be correct, and the gun wasn't legally registered to Kamronwit in Thailand, then I'd assume that would really seal his fate with the Japanese authorities.

I could have seen him possibly managing to get off, or get off light, with a legal gun because of who he is and claiming he put it in his carry on by mistake.

But if the gun itself turns out to be illegal, I'd say any notion of that kind of result likely goes out the window.

[Orac]

I can't for the life of me understand why any bloke going away for a long weekend needs to take three pieces of checked baggage and two carry on. Maybe he is sitting in his prison cell relieved that is just the gun they found and not his katoey eveningwear collection.

[Thaddeus]

the only reason he was carrying a loaded untraceable gun was because he wanted to use it without being traced back. they say the vast majority of guns for hire in Thailand are ex cops.

Could be a much simpler explanation, in my experience, there are two things that a BiB (ex or otherwise) will not leave home without, their penis and their gun.

What is making the situation worse for him is something I have experienced far too many times to mention, a Thai caught telling a lie will frequently tell a bigger one.

[DM07]

Nigeone wrote:

"I don't know how your reading it to be honest...I asked a question...based on what's been reported and the statement that Arabic and English numbers are on the gun....as another poster has put quite clearly why differentiate between the words English and Arabic ...this would then lead to any normal thinking person to ask where the ex BiB would get a gun 'possibly' from a Arabic country...I am looking in at a situation as is everyone else...if the reports are true?? And the gun has come from a Arabic country which country would you suggest it might have come from .? And from who...just a thought....I don't have agenda whatsoever but I do know what I believe to be right and wrong...and this situation is very wrong and unlike in Thailand I hope he gets what he deserves ..that's it...no red shirt yellow shirt stuff...just right and wrong...is that clear for you"

Yes, thank you that is very clear.

Still kind of a weird coincidence, that of all the countries with Arabic- language, you choose Dubai.

But anyways...

You are aware, that with the right connections and the right money, you can almost buy ANY weapon in Thailand, aren't you?

Chinese, Vietnamese, Arabic, Israeli....

There could be Sumeric- signs on that weapon and it could have still been purchased in Thailand.

[MaxLee]

Just wondering , should he also be charged once or if he arrives back in Thailand?

After all he is in possession of unregistered firearm, also an offence in Thailand, not to mention tax evasion

When he gets out of the Japanese jail, on arrival back in Thailand, he should at least be charged with being a half wit.

but yes would think he has committed crimes in two separate countries

Big name cop arrested ???? In thailand??? Are you kidding me????

A million trillion Baht petty cash into the government pockets and the bail and case is closed.....

..... and nobody loses face in the end....

[rametindallas]

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

How would "arabic" numerals indicate the country where the gun was sold? There are over 20 where is Arabic is spoken. Whereas a 2 letter code can define any country.

"the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters........... identifying the country in which the gun was sold." There is no specific reference to the numbers ONLY identifying the country.

The manufacturer stamps Arabic serial numbers into the frame of guns sold to Arabic countries so that Arabic speaking authorities can track the gun within their Arabic speaking country. What's so difficult to understand? The gun was sold to an Arabic country and a 2 letter code defined which country (your words).

.

.

Why? Why would a western country bother to use specific location numerals when the letters provide the country location, rather than numerals that can be read and understood by almost every person on the planet. Do Thai guns use Thai numerals?

Even Russian manufacturers don't bother to use Cyrillic numbers on their products, nor do the Chinese use Chinese numerals.

From the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold. He did not say which country.

What it didn't say was, "A highly placed source in Japan said the gun only had English numbers and English letters..."

Anything else is pure speculation on your part.

.

[stevenl]

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Arabic numbers are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 - As far as I know their are used most of the time in the Western world as well.

Those are 'Westernized' Arabic numbers. The OP says Arabic numbers. example below of Arabic numbers that would be stamped on a gun to be sold in an Arabic speaking country where they use Arabic numbers so Arabic authorities can read the serial numbers. Dubai, for example.

Many people will disagree with you. Source please? In general when people are speaking of 'Arabic numbers' they mean these numbers:

From Wikipedia,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals: Arabic numerals or Hindu-Arabic numerals^[1][2] or Indo-Arabic numerals^[3] are the ten digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. They are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world today.

[Arkady]

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan

From the OP (second to last paragraph): Camronwit's aide had earlier said that the former top cop usually packed his medication in checked-in luggage, but the day he was arrested in Tokyo, his medication bag was in his hand luggage. The pistol was found in his medication bag.

There may have been confusion before but this statement makes it clear that Japanese authorities found it in his 'hand luggage' which cannot be confused with 'checked in luggage'. They found the gun in his 'hand luggage' which is the same as a carry-on bag which means he was attempting to bring a loaded, five-shot, revolver into the passenger cabin of a commercial aircraft.

Even if Japan wanted to be lenient, they can't now as this would make them look like they valued passenger safety as secondary to the special treatment of a foreign VIP. The Japanese authorities are dragging the proceedings out as this is very difficult/uncomfortable for them but, in the end, the world is watching and they will have to do what is correct.

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

Also from the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold.

The presence of Arabic numbers does not, in any way, refer to where the gun was manufactured but are serial numbers stamped into the gun's frame to denote the market to which it was sold. North American Arms is a specialty gun manufacturer with only one factory and that is in Provo, Utah. You Tube has video tours of the (one and only) factory.

Here is what Arabic numerals look like:

arabic numerals.jpg

Because of the presence of Arabic numerals in the identifying serial number of this particular hand gun, this is clearly not a gun that would/could have been legally sold in Thailand hence, no paperwork or legal registration. Dubai uses Arabic numerals. Did this gun come from Dubai, maybe? Precious, indeed! Kamronwit just might have carried the 'loyalty/devotion' thing too far this time.

Another note: Since Muslims, by and large, are not permitted into Japan except on tourist visas, it is highly unlikely the gun was acquired in Japan.

.

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

You are right. They meant Western numerals as opposed to Thai numerals which also would be present, if the gun were registered in Thailand. Here is something from North American Arms' website that sheds some light on the structure of their serial numbers.

"Under current government regulations, the first letter of each Guardian serial number is predefined (M for .32 ACP, T for .380 ACP, H for 32NAA) followed by up to 10 (upper-case only) alpha-numeric characters. Your serial number will start with one of these letters, based on the gun you order." (Guardian refers to another of NAA's concealable handgun models.)

I disagree that the serial number would indicate which country the gun was sold to because the serial number would be rolled onto the gun as soon as it is finished and before it is known where it will be sold. It is not necessary anyway because the federal export license of any exported firearms would specify all the details guns in the order. It would also include a condition that the guns are only to be sold in Thailand and may not be re-exported to a third country without permission from the US government. So the US embassy in Tokyo can easily tell the Japanese authorities where the gun was sold and to whom, unless it turns out to be a fake. If it was sold legally to a Thai importer, they are likely to receive a visit from the US embassy to be asked to explain how it came to be sold without local registration. They know the drill. See https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BANGKOK2175_a.html regarding an investigation by the US embassy of US guns imported for the Interior Ministry under the civil servants' welfare scheme that were illegally exported from Thailand.

All guns that are registered in Thailand have a Thai serial number that is stamped or engraved somewhere on the receiver in the case of a handgun. The first two characters are the letters 'กท' and the rest are Thai numerals, the first two of which represent the year of registration in Thailand, e.g. '58' for this year.

It seems like Kamronwit's defence that he had a licence for the gun in Thailand and had overlooked the fact that it was first packed in his checked luggage and later transferred to his carry on luggage for the flight home is rapidly collapsing. Thai police said he was the legal owner and his son was supposed to be flying over to Japan to show them his licence. For someone of his status it would, no doubt, be possible to get a licence backdated but impossible to get the Thai serial number engraved on the gun, as it is with the Japanese authorities.

Another issue is that the statements in Kamronwit's defence implied that it was legal for him to carry the gun around Thailand fully loaded in his medicine bag like that. However, he would need a Por 12 licence to carry a concealed gun to be do that legally. I have no doubt that he could obtain one but I think it is normal to issue only one per person and the Por 12 is specific to the individual and the gun. He probably already has a Por 12 for another gun in a larger self-defence caliber which might have made it impossible to get one for this gun. At any rate to get a Por 12 licence to carry a concealed handgun the owner must first have a Por 4 licence to own and use that gun to defend his home, which can't have obtained, if it was not registered at all.

It is puzzling why he had an unregistered gun. For some one like him, it would have been a mere formality to obtain at least a Por 4 licence to have the gun at home and this model is definitely available for legal purchase in Thailand http://www.yothinfirearms.com/Handguns/NAA. It will be interesting to see what information is produced about the import and sale of the gun, if anything. Perhaps the reality is that he had an unregistered gun for whatever reason and thought nothing of carrying it around Thailand loaded because a senior ex-cop would never expect to be challenged for something like. After a few trips in Thailand with it in his medicine bag, he simply forgot that it was there. That might be possible, if it was an emergency medicine bag that he rarely needed to use but more difficult, if it contained prescription meds that he had to take every day. Actually it is hard to believe that he would have knowingly taken the gun to Japan and then deliberately tried to take it on board. However, it is also hard for the Japanese to overlook the offence, given 1) the seriousness of trying to take a loaded gun on a plane, 2) the draconian nature of their own gun laws and 3) the fact that is now seems to have been an illegal gun in Thailand.

[thequietman]

I will wager that if the ballistics and history of this gun is checked with Interpol and other various crime agencies, it will have been used before to remove business obstacles in the Asia region. Perhaps this a part time occupation for the detained. Out there I know but you never know and it certainly wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Nigeone]

Nigeone wrote:

"I don't know how your reading it to be honest...I asked a question...based on what's been reported and the statement that Arabic and English numbers are on the gun....as another poster has put quite clearly why differentiate between the words English and Arabic ...this would then lead to any normal thinking person to ask where the ex BiB would get a gun 'possibly' from a Arabic country...I am looking in at a situation as is everyone else...if the reports are true?? And the gun has come from a Arabic country which country would you suggest it might have come from .? And from who...just a thought....I don't have agenda whatsoever but I do know what I believe to be right and wrong...and this situation is very wrong and unlike in Thailand I hope he gets what he deserves ..that's it...no red shirt yellow shirt stuff...just right and wrong...is that clear for you"

Yes, thank you that is very clear.

Still kind of a weird coincidence, that of all the countries with Arabic- language, you choose Dubai.

But anyways...

You are aware, that with the right connections and the right money, you can almost buy ANY weapon in Thailand, aren't you?

Chinese, Vietnamese, Arabic, Israeli....

There could be Sumeric- signs on that weapon and it could have still been purchased in Thailand.

Yes..I am aware that you can buy ANYTHING in Thailand with money and connections...but I'm as I said looking in as is everyone else as stated from the OP the natural conclusion,from info known would suggest a possible source of the gun to be Dubai....not a coincidence to arrive with those thoughts bearing in mind the picture shown on other topics with the two men in question...Listen..I said before I don't have a agenda..but come on..if I asked you to go out on a limb...and knowing what we know from reports etc,,where do you think it might have come from...?

[AleG]

You are right. They meant Western numerals as opposed to Thai numerals which also would be present, if the gun were registered in Thailand. Here is something from North American Arms' website that sheds some light on the structure of their serial numbers.

"Under current government regulations, the first letter of each Guardian serial number is predefined (M for .32 ACP, T for .380 ACP, H for 32NAA) followed by up to 10 (upper-case only) alpha-numeric characters. Your serial number will start with one of these letters, based on the gun you order." (Guardian refers to another of NAA's concealable handgun models.)

I disagree that the serial number would indicate which country the gun was sold to because the serial number would be rolled onto the gun as soon as it is finished and before it is known where it will be sold. It is not necessary anyway because the federal export license of any exported firearms would specify all the details guns in the order. It would also include a condition that the guns are only to be sold in Thailand and may not be re-exported to a third country without permission from the US government. So the US embassy in Tokyo can easily tell the Japanese authorities where the gun was sold and to whom, unless it turns out to be a fake. If it was sold legally to a Thai importer, they are likely to receive a visit from the US embassy to be asked to explain how it came to be sold without local registration. They know the drill. See https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BANGKOK2175_a.html regarding an investigation by the US embassy of US guns imported for the Interior Ministry under the civil servants' welfare scheme that were illegally exported from Thailand.

All guns that are registered in Thailand have a Thai serial number that is stamped or engraved somewhere on the receiver in the case of a handgun. The first two characters are the letters 'กท' and the rest are Thai numerals, the first two of which represent the year of registration in Thailand, e.g. '58' for this year.

It seems like Kamronwit's defence that he had a licence for the gun in Thailand and had overlooked the fact that it was first packed in his checked luggage and later transferred to his carry on luggage for the flight home is rapidly collapsing. Thai police said he was the legal owner and his son was supposed to be flying over to Japan to show them his licence. For someone of his status it would, no doubt, be possible to get a licence backdated but impossible to get the Thai serial number engraved on the gun, as it is with the Japanese authorities.

Another issue is that the statements in Kamronwit's defence implied that it was legal for him to carry the gun around Thailand fully loaded in his medicine bag like that. However, he would need a Por 12 licence to carry a concealed gun to be do that legally. I have no doubt that he could obtain one but I think it is normal to issue only one per person and the Por 12 is specific to the individual and the gun. He probably already has a Por 12 for another gun in a larger self-defence caliber which might have made it impossible to get one for this gun. At any rate to get a Por 12 licence to carry a concealed handgun the owner must first have a Por 4 licence to own and use that gun to defend his home, which can't have obtained, if it was not registered at all.

It is puzzling why he had an unregistered gun. For some one like him, it would have been a mere formality to obtain at least a Por 4 licence to have the gun at home and this model is definitely available for legal purchase in Thailand http://www.yothinfirearms.com/Handguns/NAA. It will be interesting to see what information is produced about the import and sale of the gun, if anything.

Posts like this are the reason I still browse the replies to OPs.

[halloween]

How would "arabic" numerals indicate the country where the gun was sold? There are over 20 where is Arabic is spoken. Whereas a 2 letter code can define any country.

"the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters........... identifying the country in which the gun was sold." There is no specific reference to the numbers ONLY identifying the country.

The manufacturer stamps Arabic serial numbers into the frame of guns sold to Arabic countries so that Arabic speaking authorities can track the gun within their Arabic speaking country. What's so difficult to understand? The gun was sold to an Arabic country and a 2 letter code defined which country (your words).

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Why? Why would a western country bother to use specific location numerals when the letters provide the country location, rather than numerals that can be read and understood by almost every person on the planet. Do Thai guns use Thai numerals?

Even Russian manufacturers don't bother to use Cyrillic numbers on their products, nor do the Chinese use Chinese numerals.

From the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold. He did not say which country.

What it didn't say was, "A highly placed source in Japan said the gun only had English numbers and English letters..."

Anything else is pure speculation on your part.

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And you are basing your facts on a newspaper report of what may have been said. "English" letters are usually referred to as "Roman" and used in many languages, and most people refer to the most commonly used numeral system as "Arabic" from the system on which it is based.

Have you managed to find an image of any gun from any country stamped with true arabic numerals? Good luck with that.

Do you really think that "Arab officials" are so ignorant as to not recognise "westernised Arabic" numerals? Like the numbers they use on their currency?

[Nigeone]

Well it's all very interesting..the plot is certainly thickening...Its 6 am here in the UK so it's bed for me...I look forward to reading and seeing the continuation of this story because I've a feeling there's a lot of mileage left in this yet..

I actually don't really care either where the gun comes from but I do enjoy this guy get found out..As another poster said once the lies start they tend to get bigger and bigger as the hole gets deeper...I too though he might get off with a lighter sentence from maybe the powers that be leaning etc on there Japanese counterparts but I don't think so now somehow..quite rightly too