Thailand aims to lower road fatality rates by 80%

[cumgranosalum]

My unsolicited opinion;

Now I am living in the Norther Country so this may not be relivant to everyone. But Thailand already has many laws on the books to help prevent traffic fatalities. By the way Thailand has the 4^th highest death rate in traffic fatalities in the world according to the World Health Organization 2012 data. So some things to consider in reducing those numbers.

1. Traffic signs and lights. Again this may not pertain to you but where I live they are almost non existand and where there is one they seem to be optional to obey just like the one way signs.

2. Enforce the traffic laws

3. Stop letting 8,9,10,11, and 12 year olds to operate motor vehicles

4. Enforce helmet laws

5. Stop letting people ride in the back of open trucks

6. Stop letting 4 and 5 people ride on a scooter, they are ideally designed for 2 riders 3 at most

7. Stop letting infants ride on motorcycles, it is inherently dangerous

8. Stop letting school children to ride on top of buses.

Look at the images below and see if you see anything wrong.

None are unique to Thailand

[CarolJadzia]

So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?

Lets just go back ten years for starters:

TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS IN THAILAND 2005

This paper presents an overview of traffic accident situations in Thailand. It highlights the transformation of road accident problems in Thailand, from the past to present, with the focus on the situation of the most accident prone mode of transport in the country, motorcycle accidents. Relating problems and contributing causes of motorcycle accidents are also detailed in this paper. Subsequently, this paper recommends several measures to curb the alarming increases in motorcycle accidents.

ANALYSIS OF MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES: A CASE STUDY OF KHON KAEN, THAILAND - 2003 (PDF)

Therefore, a number of safety improvements should be implemented in order to reduce the frequency and the severity of motorcycle accident especially for motorcyclists who are more prone to involve in high severity rate. As well as the policy actions such as enforcement of helmet use and prohibiting impaired driving are required to ensure safety improvement measure. Additionally, GIS database management system that developed in this study is readily available to visually ascertain the proximity of locations that occupy more frequency and more severity of motorcycle accidents. For more effectively, the strict regulation should be more vigorous enforcement according to the recommended potential problem sites and the enhancement of graduated licensing for young driver should be also emphasized for safety plan.

If you keep doing something wrong, doing more of the wrong stuff just makes it worse and does not address the issues.

Lets go through the list above then:

1. There are lights and signals all over Thailand, even a few roundabouts as well. But what use are they when people play by pedestrian rules? My son was almost killed when a car came through two sets of red lights and t-boned him, that was in England.

2. Enforce the Laws! All the Laws or just the ones you agree with? Do you speed? Do you always obey the law to the letter? I would expect Thailand to be similar to England where the evidence shows that the majority of pedestrians killed on the road are by normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things and driving within the law.

3. What about the school children who's only means of getting to school is a scooter even though they are under age to ride it? Many Thai's do not see anything wrong with letting youngsters ride the family scooters, do you honestly think telling them to stop is going to change anything?

4. Enforce Helmet Laws? Enforcement will work where enforced, but without education and a change in beliefs there is little point in just telling people they have to wear a helmet. Many Thais believe in reincarnation, this life is only a transitional one and their future is mapped including their death, what use is a helmet? Sikhs are exempt from Helmets in the UK on religious grounds, many Thais feel the same way about Helmets.

5. Again when a pickup truck is your only transport would you just stop using it for transport when you cannot see the danger?

6.7.8. Kids will be kids and when the only transport is dangerous, that will not stop them from using it.

To change Thailand you will need to work with the Thais not against them. To change the culture not just expect to impose rules on people. Find new ways to approach the situation rather than relying on outdated ideas simply because of Correspondence Bias.

https://thairoadcraft.wordpress.com/

[lvr181]

And farang posters are NOT going to change anything

[seedy]

One Post Hidden

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation

[CarolJadzia]

And farang posters are NOT going to change anything

On an expat forum? Of course not.

Elsewhere however is a different matter.

[cumgranosalum]

So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?

Lets just go back ten years for starters:

TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS IN THAILAND 2005

This paper presents an overview of traffic accident situations in Thailand. It highlights the transformation of road accident problems in Thailand, from the past to present, with the focus on the situation of the most accident prone mode of transport in the country, motorcycle accidents. Relating problems and contributing causes of motorcycle accidents are also detailed in this paper. Subsequently, this paper recommends several measures to curb the alarming increases in motorcycle accidents.

ANALYSIS OF MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES: A CASE STUDY OF KHON KAEN, THAILAND - 2003 (PDF)

Therefore, a number of safety improvements should be implemented in order to reduce the frequency and the severity of motorcycle accident especially for motorcyclists who are more prone to involve in high severity rate. As well as the policy actions such as enforcement of helmet use and prohibiting impaired driving are required to ensure safety improvement measure. Additionally, GIS database management system that developed in this study is readily available to visually ascertain the proximity of locations that occupy more frequency and more severity of motorcycle accidents. For more effectively, the strict regulation should be more vigorous enforcement according to the recommended potential problem sites and the enhancement of graduated licensing for young driver should be also emphasized for safety plan.

If you keep doing something wrong, doing more of the wrong stuff just makes it worse and does not address the issues.

Lets go through the list above then:

1. There are lights and signals all over Thailand, even a few roundabouts as well. But what use are they when people play by pedestrian rules? My son was almost killed when a car came through two sets of red lights and t-boned him, that was in England.

2. Enforce the Laws! All the Laws or just the ones you agree with? Do you speed? Do you always obey the law to the letter? I would expect Thailand to be similar to England where the evidence shows that the majority of pedestrians killed on the road are by normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things and driving within the law.

3. What about the school children who's only means of getting to school is a scooter even though they are under age to ride it? Many Thai's do not see anything wrong with letting youngsters ride the family scooters, do you honestly think telling them to stop is going to change anything?

4. Enforce Helmet Laws? Enforcement will work where enforced, but without education and a change in beliefs there is little point in just telling people they have to wear a helmet. Many Thais believe in reincarnation, this life is only a transitional one and their future is mapped including their death, what use is a helmet? Sikhs are exempt from Helmets in the UK on religious grounds, many Thais feel the same way about Helmets.

5. Again when a pickup truck is your only transport would you just stop using it for transport when you cannot see the danger?

6.7.8. Kids will be kids and when the only transport is dangerous, that will not stop them from using it.

To change Thailand you will need to work with the Thais not against them. To change the culture not just expect to impose rules on people. Find new ways to approach the situation rather than relying on outdated ideas simply because of Correspondence Bias.

https://thairoadcraft.wordpress.com/

"So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?"

THis is nonsense - the reason there has been no change is that successive goverments have failed to implrment them - they are the only way - any other suggestions either won't work or eon't be iimplemen ted.

may I suggest too that you do your homework...there are several agencies and plans both national and 'ASEAN that are targeting road safety - they all agree on the same pricipals - how long do we wait? Until they are implemented - what do you suggest?

[kannot]

All new cars to be fitted with square wheels and have steering wheels removed....should do it, motorcycles will also benefit form this same attitude adjustment

[CarolJadzia]

"So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?"

THis is nonsense - the reason there has been no change is that successive goverments have failed to implrment them - they are the only way - any other suggestions either won't work or eon't be iimplemen ted.

may I suggest too that you do your homework...there are several agencies and plans both national and 'ASEAN that are targeting road safety - they all agree on the same pricipals - how long do we wait? Until they are implemented - what do you suggest?

It is easy to assume that I come here having not researched this or have no idea what I am talking about and I actually expect it. may I suggest you look up Correspondence Bias.

I am actually in discussion with various advisors Internationally. Some of whom have, or are currently working with the Thai Government.

The current misguided approach is rehashed old ideas now called 'The Safe System'.

Heres a glossy video from Australia to tell you all about it.

Now if you think Safety Cells in posh vehicles that only the Rich Elite can afford, wire rope barriers that decapitate riders and enforcing speed limits even though they do not work is going to change anything in Thailand then good luck.

To me it's just 'Same Same'

[cumgranosalum]

"So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?"

THis is nonsense - the reason there has been no change is that successive goverments have failed to implrment them - they are the only way - any other suggestions either won't work or eon't be iimplemen ted.

may I suggest too that you do your homework...there are several agencies and plans both national and 'ASEAN that are targeting road safety - they all agree on the same pricipals - how long do we wait? Until they are implemented - what do you suggest?

It is easy to assume that I come here having not researched this or have no idea what I am talking about and I actually expect it. may I suggest you look up Correspondence Bias.

I am actually in discussion with various advisors Internationally. Some of whom have, or are currently working with the Thai Government.

The current misguided approach is rehashed old ideas now called 'The Safe System'.

Heres a glossy video from Australia to tell you all about it.

Now if you think Safety Cells in posh vehicles that only the Rich Elite can afford, wire rope barriers that decapitate riders and enforcing speed limits even though they do not work is going to change anything in Thailand then good luck.

To me it's just 'Same Same'

Who or what you are "in discussions with" is irreleveant - what you propound is only a partial view of the situation and your views on "culture" are basically way off the mark. people who use the word culture to justify an argument are using a word that is in all practical senses, undefinable and to treat "culture" as some static entity is basically just nonsense.

You quote one report from 2005.....if you want to swop Google references i can go back to the 80s and 90s and I don't need Google as I already have the stuff.

the fact that you continually think a single document makes an argument any more valid just shows the paucity of your thinking on the topic.

Edited December 2, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[CarolJadzia]

Who or what you are "in discussions with" is irreleveant - what you propound is only a partial view of the situation and your views on "culture" are basically way off the mark. people who use the word culture to justify an argument are using a word that is in all practical senses, undefinable and to treat "culture" as some static entity is basically just nonsense.

You quote one report from 2005.....if you want to swop Google references i can go back to the 80s and 90s and I don't need Google as I already have the stuff.

the fact that you continually think a single document makes an argument any more valid just shows the paucity of your thinking on the topic.

Yes I can go back to the 80's if you like as well. And if you want to go back further then I can trace Road Safety back to the 50's or if you like the inception of Advanced Police Driving in the UK back to 1937.

If you want to discuss International Road Safety I am happy to do so but this is not the place.

But just stating that a system that has found limitations internationally is going to change everything in Thailand is only more evidence of why the current safety ideas do not work.

I am not quoting from individual papers. We are part of a growing group of road safety experts taking well established ideas learned from elsewhere in the safety critical worlds of Aviation and other industries and applying them to road safety.

No Surprise / No Accident was designed to help improve things in the UK/

and here is Steven Shorrock in New South Wales, an aviation expert discussing the Safety II approach

If you want more evidence of whats behind our new approach look through the Evidence on the No Surprise Resources page

We are about learning why accidents happen and avoiding the causes.

I do not assume everyone is going to follow the rules wherever I ride. I take responsabillity for my own safety and that of those around me.

Rather than playing the blame game, we prefer to play the avoidance game instead.

[newnative]

You can google all you want but my comments were based on real world observation in Pattaya. I've witnessed a number of motorcycle accidents and in every case the motorcycle driver was doing something illegal and that caused the accident. I'm not saying it is always the case but looks like a strong majority to me. I've lived here 5 years and our car has been hit by motorcycles 5 times--so an average of once a year. In 4 of the cases we were stopped in traffic and not even moving--hit on the side and behind by weaving motorcycles and rear-ended by a 3 wheeled motorcycle cart with the driver talking on his cell phone and not paying attention. Get your head out of google and look around next time you are out driving and you'll see what I am talking about.

[cumgranosalum]

"But just stating that a system that has found limitations internationally is going to change everything in Thailand is only more evidence of why the current safety ideas do not work."

More nonsense...you are just contradicting yourself

[Artisi]

"So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?"

THis is nonsense - the reason there has been no change is that successive goverments have failed to implrment them - they are the only way - any other suggestions either won't work or eon't be iimplemen ted.

may I suggest too that you do your homework...there are several agencies and plans both national and 'ASEAN that are targeting road safety - they all agree on the same pricipals - how long do we wait? Until they are implemented - what do you suggest?

It is easy to assume that I come here having not researched this or have no idea what I am talking about and I actually expect it. may I suggest you look up Correspondence Bias.

I am actually in discussion with various advisors Internationally. Some of whom have, or are currently working with the Thai Government.

The current misguided approach is rehashed old ideas now called 'The Safe System'.

Heres a glossy video from Australia to tell you all about it.

Now if you think Safety Cells in posh vehicles that only the Rich Elite can afford, wire rope barriers that decapitate riders and enforcing speed limits even though they do not work is going to change anything in Thailand then good luck.

To me it's just 'Same Same'

First up the video is from NZ - not Aust. small irrelevant point really.

Overall a good video irrespective of what some might say, and the analysis of the (mock-up) car crash was interesting, however the recommendations made while being valid only address that particular instance and would more than likely not be that valid for a similar situation.

Further, what was missed completely was the fact that, even though the driver was distracted and steered off the hard surface, the final outcome was poor driving skills / wrong reaction. Having 2 outside wheels off the hard surface in itself is not a problem, the vehicle was still proceeding in a straight ahead and was we can assume still under some sort of control and could have been kept under control and gradually steered back onto the hard surface. The over reaction to immediately and aggressively steer right put the vehicle into crash mode due to the sudden shifting of vehicle weight and direction - the result of this has been demonstrated.

Any one who has driven or watched rally cars / off road cars etc. will see this same scenario used - use all the road if necessary even the hard shoulder.

[CarolJadzia]

"But just stating that a system that has found limitations internationally is going to change everything in Thailand is only more evidence of why the current safety ideas do not work."

More nonsense...you are just contradicting yourself

Well thank you for miss quoting me to prove my point.

The old ways have been proved to not work internationally that is why we are suggesting a new approach.

[CarolJadzia]

"So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?"

THis is nonsense - the reason there has been no change is that successive goverments have failed to implrment them - they are the only way - any other suggestions either won't work or eon't be iimplemen ted.

may I suggest too that you do your homework...there are several agencies and plans both national and 'ASEAN that are targeting road safety - they all agree on the same pricipals - how long do we wait? Until they are implemented - what do you suggest?

It is easy to assume that I come here having not researched this or have no idea what I am talking about and I actually expect it. may I suggest you look up Correspondence Bias.

I am actually in discussion with various advisors Internationally. Some of whom have, or are currently working with the Thai Government.

The current misguided approach is rehashed old ideas now called 'The Safe System'.

Heres a glossy video from Australia to tell you all about it.

Now if you think Safety Cells in posh vehicles that only the Rich Elite can afford, wire rope barriers that decapitate riders and enforcing speed limits even though they do not work is going to change anything in Thailand then good luck.

To me it's just 'Same Same'

First up the video is from NZ - not Aust. small irrelevant point really.

Overall a good video irrespective of what some might say, and the analysis of the (mock-up) car crash was interesting, however the recommendations made while being valid only address that particular instance and would more than likely not be that valid for a similar situation.

Further, what was missed completely was the fact that, even though the driver was distracted and steered off the hard surface, the final outcome was poor driving skills / wrong reaction. Having 2 outside wheels off the hard surface in itself is not a problem, the vehicle was still proceeding in a straight ahead and was we can assume still under some sort of control and could have been kept under control and gradually steered back onto the hard surface. The over reaction to immediately and aggressively steer right put the vehicle into crash mode due to the sudden shifting of vehicle weight and direction - the result of this has been demonstrated.

Any one who has driven or watched rally cars / off road cars etc. will see this same scenario used - use all the road if necessary even the hard shoulder.

Sorry yes that was from New Zealand, but if you research the topic you will find it is the same approach being used in both Australia and New Zealand.

http://roadsafety.gov.au/

Another point, you are focusing on the one incident regarding the simulated car at the start of the clip. That is not what the video is about. You need to watch it further.

I also know that Road Safety Advisors from Australia travelled to Thailand to an International Seminar on Road Safety earlier this year to promote the 'Safe System Approach' to the Thai Government. like many before them, their approach only had a limited response from the Thai Government.

The same Road safety professionals are now questioning the safe system approach on the Roads of Australia as Australian government only pick the low fruit and the easy option is just to lower speed limits.

The other 'Safe System' approach offered to Thailand by these 'road safety professionals' was changing all the concrete block barriers common in Thailand for wire rope barriers. There was a backlash across Europe against wire rope barriers due to the dangers of the fixed uprights stopping a rider dead, worse injuries than they would have got if they had hit a broad flat surface like the concrete barriers the suggestion was to replace. Not to mention the huge costs of replacing barriers and up-keeping the wire barriers against low maintenance concrete.

[Artisi]

"So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?"

THis is nonsense - the reason there has been no change is that successive goverments have failed to implrment them - they are the only way - any other suggestions either won't work or eon't be iimplemen ted.

may I suggest too that you do your homework...there are several agencies and plans both national and 'ASEAN that are targeting road safety - they all agree on the same pricipals - how long do we wait? Until they are implemented - what do you suggest?

It is easy to assume that I come here having not researched this or have no idea what I am talking about and I actually expect it. may I suggest you look up Correspondence Bias.

I am actually in discussion with various advisors Internationally. Some of whom have, or are currently working with the Thai Government.

The current misguided approach is rehashed old ideas now called 'The Safe System'.

Heres a glossy video from Australia to tell you all about it.

Now if you think Safety Cells in posh vehicles that only the Rich Elite can afford, wire rope barriers that decapitate riders and enforcing speed limits even though they do not work is going to change anything in Thailand then good luck.

To me it's just 'Same Same'

First up the video is from NZ - not Aust. small irrelevant point really.

Overall a good video irrespective of what some might say, and the analysis of the (mock-up) car crash was interesting, however the recommendations made while being valid only address that particular instance and would more than likely not be that valid for a similar situation.

Further, what was missed completely was the fact that, even though the driver was distracted and steered off the hard surface, the final outcome was poor driving skills / wrong reaction. Having 2 outside wheels off the hard surface in itself is not a problem, the vehicle was still proceeding in a straight ahead and was we can assume still under some sort of control and could have been kept under control and gradually steered back onto the hard surface. The over reaction to immediately and aggressively steer right put the vehicle into crash mode due to the sudden shifting of vehicle weight and direction - the result of this has been demonstrated.

Any one who has driven or watched rally cars / off road cars etc. will see this same scenario used - use all the road if necessary even the hard shoulder.

Sorry yes that was from New Zealand, but if you research the topic you will find it is the same approach being used in both Australia and New Zealand.

http://roadsafety.gov.au/

Another point, you are focusing on the one incident regarding the simulated car at the start of the clip. That is not what the video is about. You need to watch it further.

I also know that Road Safety Advisors from Australia travelled to Thailand to an International Seminar on Road Safety earlier this year to promote the 'Safe System Approach' to the Thai Government. like many before them, their approach only had a limited response from the Thai Government.

The same Road safety professionals are now questioning the safe system approach on the Roads of Australia as Australian government only pick the low fruit and the easy option is just to lower speed limits.

The other 'Safe System' approach offered to Thailand by these 'road safety professionals' was changing all the concrete block barriers common in Thailand for wire rope barriers. There was a backlash across Europe against wire rope barriers due to the dangers of the fixed uprights stopping a rider dead, worse injuries than they would have got if they had hit a broad flat surface like the concrete barriers the suggestion was to replace. Not to mention the huge costs of replacing barriers and up-keeping the wire barriers against low maintenance concrete.

I did watch it right through- my comment was on the particular analysis of the "accident" and the missed point of what contributed to the outcome. It's always easy to be clouded by theory and miss a few vital points by not carefully analysing exactly what the driver was doing or not doing.

[FritsSikkink]

So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?

Lets just go back ten years for starters: TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS IN THAILAND 2005

This paper presents an overview of traffic accident situations in Thailand. It highlights the transformation of road accident problems in Thailand, from the past to present, with the focus on the situation of the most accident prone mode of transport in the country, motorcycle accidents. Relating problems and contributing causes of motorcycle accidents are also detailed in this paper. Subsequently, this paper recommends several measures to curb the alarming increases in motorcycle accidents.

ANALYSIS OF MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES: A CASE STUDY OF KHON KAEN, THAILAND - 2003 (PDF)

Therefore, a number of safety improvements should be implemented in order to reduce the frequency and the severity of motorcycle accident especially for motorcyclists who are more prone to involve in high severity rate. As well as the policy actions such as enforcement of helmet use and prohibiting impaired driving are required to ensure safety improvement measure. Additionally, GIS database management system that developed in this study is readily available to visually ascertain the proximity of locations that occupy more frequency and more severity of motorcycle accidents. For more effectively, the strict regulation should be more vigorous enforcement according to the recommended potential problem sites and the enhancement of graduated licensing for young driver should be also emphasized for safety plan.

If you keep doing something wrong, doing more of the wrong stuff just makes it worse and does not address the issues.

Lets go through the list above then:

1. There are lights and signals all over Thailand, even a few roundabouts as well. But what use are they when people play by pedestrian rules? My son was almost killed when a car came through two sets of red lights and t-boned him, that was in England.

2. Enforce the Laws! All the Laws or just the ones you agree with? Do you speed? Do you always obey the law to the letter? I would expect Thailand to be similar to England where the evidence shows that the majority of pedestrians killed on the road are by normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things and driving within the law.

3. What about the school children who's only means of getting to school is a scooter even though they are under age to ride it? Many Thai's do not see anything wrong with letting youngsters ride the family scooters, do you honestly think telling them to stop is going to change anything?

4. Enforce Helmet Laws? Enforcement will work where enforced, but without education and a change in beliefs there is little point in just telling people they have to wear a helmet. Many Thais believe in reincarnation, this life is only a transitional one and their future is mapped including their death, what use is a helmet? Sikhs are exempt from Helmets in the UK on religious grounds, many Thais feel the same way about Helmets.

5. Again when a pickup truck is your only transport would you just stop using it for transport when you cannot see the danger?

6.7.8. Kids will be kids and when the only transport is dangerous, that will not stop them from using it.

To change Thailand you will need to work with the Thais not against them. To change the culture not just expect to impose rules on people. Find new ways to approach the situation rather than relying on outdated ideas simply because of Correspondence Bias.

https://thairoadcraft.wordpress.com/

1) this isn't england

2)this isn't england

3)get a push bike

4)this isn't england

5/6/ 7/8 enforce rules

[CarolJadzia]

So all those that keep insisting on applying ideas from the western world that do not work onto Thailand where they will work even less, how many more years do you want to keep trying? Ten? Twenty?

Lets just go back ten years for starters: TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS IN THAILAND 2005

This paper presents an overview of traffic accident situations in Thailand. It highlights the transformation of road accident problems in Thailand, from the past to present, with the focus on the situation of the most accident prone mode of transport in the country, motorcycle accidents. Relating problems and contributing causes of motorcycle accidents are also detailed in this paper. Subsequently, this paper recommends several measures to curb the alarming increases in motorcycle accidents.

ANALYSIS OF MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES: A CASE STUDY OF KHON KAEN, THAILAND - 2003 (PDF)

Therefore, a number of safety improvements should be implemented in order to reduce the frequency and the severity of motorcycle accident especially for motorcyclists who are more prone to involve in high severity rate. As well as the policy actions such as enforcement of helmet use and prohibiting impaired driving are required to ensure safety improvement measure. Additionally, GIS database management system that developed in this study is readily available to visually ascertain the proximity of locations that occupy more frequency and more severity of motorcycle accidents. For more effectively, the strict regulation should be more vigorous enforcement according to the recommended potential problem sites and the enhancement of graduated licensing for young driver should be also emphasized for safety plan.

If you keep doing something wrong, doing more of the wrong stuff just makes it worse and does not address the issues.

Lets go through the list above then:

1. There are lights and signals all over Thailand, even a few roundabouts as well. But what use are they when people play by pedestrian rules? My son was almost killed when a car came through two sets of red lights and t-boned him, that was in England.

2. Enforce the Laws! All the Laws or just the ones you agree with? Do you speed? Do you always obey the law to the letter? I would expect Thailand to be similar to England where the evidence shows that the majority of pedestrians killed on the road are by normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things and driving within the law.

3. What about the school children who's only means of getting to school is a scooter even though they are under age to ride it? Many Thai's do not see anything wrong with letting youngsters ride the family scooters, do you honestly think telling them to stop is going to change anything?

4. Enforce Helmet Laws? Enforcement will work where enforced, but without education and a change in beliefs there is little point in just telling people they have to wear a helmet. Many Thais believe in reincarnation, this life is only a transitional one and their future is mapped including their death, what use is a helmet? Sikhs are exempt from Helmets in the UK on religious grounds, many Thais feel the same way about Helmets.

5. Again when a pickup truck is your only transport would you just stop using it for transport when you cannot see the danger?

6.7.8. Kids will be kids and when the only transport is dangerous, that will not stop them from using it.

To change Thailand you will need to work with the Thais not against them. To change the culture not just expect to impose rules on people. Find new ways to approach the situation rather than relying on outdated ideas simply because of Correspondence Bias.

https://thairoadcraft.wordpress.com/

1) this isn't england

2)this isn't england

3)get a push bike

4)this isn't england

5/6/ 7/8 enforce rules

If you wish to excessively quote me it might be a good idea to read what you are quoting first. Yes I know I am stuck in the UK at the moment, however the assumption that not being on the ground in Thailand somehow means I do not know what I am talking about is a bit thin to say the least. You assume that these are all my own ideas rather than the fact that I have spent two years researching this and consulting with Ex-pat and Thai friends on how to address the situation.

Good luck Enforcing your Rules but try also reading the paper on Correspondence Bias first.

[CarolJadzia]

I did watch it right through- my comment was on the particular analysis of the "accident" and the missed point of what contributed to the outcome. It's always easy to be clouded by theory and miss a few vital points by not carefully analysing exactly what the driver was doing or not doing.

I do agree that there are limitations with their analysis at base level. Just my point is that is only a small issue when the bigger problem is the application of the 'Safe System' approach itself.

[Artisi]

I did watch it right through- my comment was on the particular analysis of the "accident" and the missed point of what contributed to the outcome. It's always easy to be clouded by theory and miss a few vital points by not carefully analysing exactly what the driver was doing or not doing.

I do agree that there are limitations with their analysis at base level. Just my point is that is only a small issue when the bigger problem is the application of the 'Safe System' approach itself.

The "safe system" is all well and good and certainly heading in the right direction as a means of reducing fatalities - but any "system" is only as good as the people understanding it and being the "end users".

Currently the users (drivers / riders/ enforcement officials) in Thailand are so far removed from the reality of sensible and safe driving, the introduction of a safe system (which is very unlikely to ever happen) will have about the same chance of success as winning the million Dollar / Pound lottery. The first step must be to rigidly enforce current laws, without this just forget the whole idea as all the theory of what needs to be done is a waste of time.

I cannot talk about UK, Europe, USA but in Aust. and NZ the road deaths have been reduced, by road design, tougher testing rules and very strict enforcement of the road rules, and I mean strict - designated high-way patrol cars constantly on the road, random breath testing and tough penalties, especially for repeat offenders . One thing assisting the changes was that the majority of drivers were reasonable in their approach to driving to start with - they usually obeyed stop / give way signs, red lights and drove on their side of the road and didn't have a death wish - so all that was a plus to build on.

Of course saying this I will be open to criticism by some - but who cares, at least I have made a few comments on what I think some of the answers might be, and not hide behind statement's of "theory" which in themselves do nothing to address the problem.

[CarolJadzia]

I did watch it right through- my comment was on the particular analysis of the "accident" and the missed point of what contributed to the outcome. It's always easy to be clouded by theory and miss a few vital points by not carefully analysing exactly what the driver was doing or not doing.

I do agree that there are limitations with their analysis at base level. Just my point is that is only a small issue when the bigger problem is the application of the 'Safe System' approach itself.

The "safe system" is all well and good and certainly heading in the right direction as a means of reducing fatalities - but any "system" is only as good as the people understanding it and being the "end users".

Currently the users (drivers / riders/ enforcement officials) in Thailand are so far removed from the reality of sensible and safe driving, the introduction of a safe system (which is very unlikely to ever happen) will have about the same chance of success as winning the million Dollar / Pound lottery. The first step must be to rigidly enforce current laws, without this just forget the whole idea as all the theory of what needs to be done is a waste of time.

I cannot talk about UK, Europe, USA but in Aust. and NZ the road deaths have been reduced, by road design, tougher testing rules and very strict enforcement of the road rules, and I mean strict - designated high-way patrol cars constantly on the road, random breath testing and tough penalties, especially for repeat offenders . One thing assisting the changes was that the majority of drivers were reasonable in their approach to driving to start with - they usually obeyed stop / give way signs, red lights and drove on their side of the road and didn't have a death wish - so all that was a plus to build on.

Of course saying this I will be open to criticism by some - but who cares, at least I have made a few comments on what I think some of the answers might be, and not hide behind statement's of "theory" which in themselves do nothing to address the problem.

The 'Safe System Approach' is actually just a rehash of the old approach. As coming from an Enforcer background I would expect you to assume the approach you are taking. They are the same arguments being used in the UK and Internationally against fellow protagonists of 'No Surprise' and the 'Safety II' approaches. Fortunately for us we have science on our side and we focus on the individual rather than expecting others to change what is basic human nature.

Your quote about accident reduction around the world just proves my point, nowhere in the world has the Enforcement approach worked fully, nowhere are there Zero road accidents, countries like the UK have huge amounts of resources targeting enforcing the rules yet still pedestrians and motorcyclists are dying on the roads while the real reasons are ignored. e.g. the majority of pedestrians killed on UK roads are by normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things.

New understanding of how the human brains work, subjects like motion camouflage and human nature are all being brought together so that we can learn new ways to keep ourselves safe. Not just rely on others to follow rules enforced upon them.

[Dumbastheycome]

Wheel less vehicles would maybe achieve it. Bring back the original buffalo !

[lvr181]

Wheel less vehicles would maybe achieve it. Bring back the original buffalo !

Drunk in charge of a buffalo? Wow, that is pretty scary stuff also

[Echo Tango]

They can't reduce accident rates without active highway patrols. They should have police interceptors patrolling throughout the country just like U.S. does.

My Thai wife says it'll never happen, the cops are too lazy and too scared

Edited December 2, 2015 by Echo Tango

[shaggy28303]

When Police follow the law then that will be a start. When you see a cop going the wrong way on a motor bike on the side walk, then all do the same

[i claudius]

The only way they will lower road deaths here is if they take 80% of the drivers off the roads .

[Artisi]

I did watch it right through- my comment was on the particular analysis of the "accident" and the missed point of what contributed to the outcome. It's always easy to be clouded by theory and miss a few vital points by not carefully analysing exactly what the driver was doing or not doing.

I do agree that there are limitations with their analysis at base level. Just my point is that is only a small issue when the bigger problem is the application of the 'Safe System' approach itself.

The "safe system" is all well and good and certainly heading in the right direction as a means of reducing fatalities - but any "system" is only as good as the people understanding it and being the "end users".

Currently the users (drivers / riders/ enforcement officials) in Thailand are so far removed from the reality of sensible and safe driving, the introduction of a safe system (which is very unlikely to ever happen) will have about the same chance of success as winning the million Dollar / Pound lottery. The first step must be to rigidly enforce current laws, without this just forget the whole idea as all the theory of what needs to be done is a waste of time.

I cannot talk about UK, Europe, USA but in Aust. and NZ the road deaths have been reduced, by road design, tougher testing rules and very strict enforcement of the road rules, and I mean strict - designated high-way patrol cars constantly on the road, random breath testing and tough penalties, especially for repeat offenders . One thing assisting the changes was that the majority of drivers were reasonable in their approach to driving to start with - they usually obeyed stop / give way signs, red lights and drove on their side of the road and didn't have a death wish - so all that was a plus to build on.

Of course saying this I will be open to criticism by some - but who cares, at least I have made a few comments on what I think some of the answers might be, and not hide behind statement's of "theory" which in themselves do nothing to address the problem.

The 'Safe System Approach' is actually just a rehash of the old approach. As coming from an Enforcer background I would expect you to assume the approach you are taking. They are the same arguments being used in the UK and Internationally against fellow protagonists of 'No Surprise' and the 'Safety II' approaches. Fortunately for us we have science on our side and we focus on the individual rather than expecting others to change what is basic human nature.

Your quote about accident reduction around the world just proves my point, nowhere in the world has the Enforcement approach worked fully, nowhere are there Zero road accidents, countries like the UK have huge amounts of resources targeting enforcing the rules yet still pedestrians and motorcyclists are dying on the roads while the real reasons are ignored. e.g. the majority of pedestrians killed on UK roads are by normal everyday drivers doing normal everyday things.

New understanding of how the human brains work, subjects like motion camouflage and human nature are all being brought together so that we can learn new ways to keep ourselves safe. Not just rely on others to follow rules enforced upon them.

Yep, all very good but I don't see where it addresses stupidity.

Lets face some real facts:

Whatever is done by way of enforcement, design, education however or what ever you want to name it, people will still be killed on the roads, die in airplane crashes, be electrocuted, drown while swimming, fall out of windows, get hit by trains, have heart attacks while having sex. The more stupid you are the more likely you are to die or in the worst case kill others.

You cannot legislate, enforce, design against stupidity no matter what you do to beat it.

A case that I have quoted previously to highlight an act of stupid is:

A metal stamping press worker severed his hand in the stamping die, how did he do - well it wasn't easy, the working part of the press was fully protected with a safety guard which was in turn padlocked to the press. The operator entered the factory office, force entry into a secured cabinet, removed the key to the padlock and removed the guard, overrode the electric sensing switch which automatically cut power to the press if the guard was removed -- the rest is now history.

[CarolJadzia]

Yep, all very good but I don't see where it addresses stupidity.

Lets face some real facts:

Whatever is done by way of enforcement, design, education however or what ever you want to name it, people will still be killed on the roads, die in airplane crashes, be electrocuted, drown while swimming, fall out of windows, get hit by trains, have heart attacks while having sex. The more stupid you are the more likely you are to die or in the worst case kill others.

You cannot legislate, enforce, design against stupidity no matter what you do to beat it.

A case that I have quoted previously to highlight an act of stupid is:

A metal stamping press worker severed his hand in the stamping die, how did he do - well it wasn't easy, the working part of the press was fully protected with a safety guard which was in turn padlocked to the press. The operator entered the factory office, force entry into a secured cabinet, removed the key to the padlock and removed the guard, overrode the electric sensing switch which automatically cut power to the press if the guard was removed -- the rest is now history.

Actually the people behind Airplane safety are the ones who came up with the safety II approach as you cannot have planes crashing as they have in the past due to human error.

We totally agree with the fact there will always be idiots, but more than that there will always be accidents. People make mistakes, fact of life.

But rather than incriminate the people who make mistakes we prefer to try and avoid the mistakes in the first place.

Can you honestly say you have never made a mistake when driving? I know I have, fortunately years of experience mean I make far fewer these days, but I am not perfect, I am human.

E.G. A big killer of motorcyclists in the UK is the SMIDSY (Sorry Mate I didn't See You) type accident. The established way is to fault the driver for not seeing the approaching motorcyclists. We have a different approach.

https://youtu.be/eqQBubilSXU?list=PLD28U3l47mf2PmX_3JivcaUMfCkQUO5Va

Yes I know the video is not in Thailand, when my Thai friends asked me to explain the approach in more detail I wrote this:

Advanced Defensive Riding in Thailand - Junctions

Also all those who wish for more Enforcement in Thailand might like to read this:

Recovery from Command and Control - A twelve Step Plan

Edited December 3, 2015 by CarolJadzia

[spidermike007]

I hope they are serious...

It will be difficult, but I do hope they do it...

Not to sound too pessimistic, but what you said is akin to saying:

I hope the Thai filmmakers win the oscar this year, for their best foreign film entry, that is if they win the nomination.

I hope the reporters for the Bangkok Post get a Pulitzer prize for their world class investigative reporting.

I hope the prices here start dropping.

I hope they lower the prices of popcorn at the movies.

I hope the Dept. of Fisheries reforms the fishing industry.

I hope immigration starts making things much easier for ex-pats living here.

I hope, I hope, I hope.

I hope the government start following up on its hundreds and hundreds of proclamations.

And hoping for that, from this government, is truly pinning one's hopes on a pipe dream. I would be better off hoping to win the lottery. It is far more likely.

Edited December 3, 2015 by spidermike007

[Artisi]

I hope they are serious...

It will be difficult, but I do hope they do it...

Not to sound too pessimistic, but what you said is akin to saying:

I hope the Thai filmmakers win the oscar this year, for their best foreign film entry, that is if they win the nomination.

I hope the reporters for the Bangkok Post get a Pulitzer prize for their world class investigative reporting.

I hope the prices here start dropping.

I hope they lower the prices of popcorn at the movies.

I hope the Dept. of Fisheries reforms the fishing industry.

I hope immigration starts making things much easier for ex-pats living here.

I hope, I hope, I hope.

I hope the government start following up on its hundreds and hundreds of proclamations.

Don't live in hope.... You already know the outcome.....