Are the good days in Pattaya gone for good?

[tropo]

I can appreciate the three different periods and have lived through them all. There are so many variables that can characterize each period, but the transition from a relaxed social environment (the past) and less degraded physical/biological environment (the past) to a terrible social environment (the present) and horribly degraded physical/biological environment (the present) is clear to those with a long-term perspective. I am seeing some terrible trends: 1) acceleration of the degradation of the physical/biological environment; 2) rising xenophobia and associated anger and frustration (mental problems are off the scale--both farangs and Thais); 3) a new generation with nothing between its ears but anger and a love for alcohol and noise pollution. The new, shiny condominiums are not enough to make this "fetid smell" go away. On the positive side, Central Festival Mall is a great mall. And it is nice to have access to good hospitals and dentists. It is too bad that the promenade development projects in both Pattaya and Jomtien destroyed what was once one of the main attractions. RIP........yes, the "good days" have definitely left the room, but there are worse places to be, that is for sure.

Good post!!!

Rising xenophobia or rising contempt?

There's no changes of any significance other than aging and familiarity.

We all go through stages. 3 stages can be summed up as:

1. When we first arrive. (The honeymoon)

2. When we've been here for awhile. (2 - 5 years)

3. When we've been here for a long while. (5 - 10+ years)

During stages 2 and 3, the good days gradually disappear until they're gone. This occurs because people start to see reality... and discover all the "warts". Then there's the basic boredom of doing the same things over and over...

These stages are no more or less valid whether you arrived in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s or 2010s... Future expats will be discussing the good old days of 2016 in 2030 or 2040.

Find any paradise and watch it disappear as the years go on... It's all about perception and aging is a big factor.

Over my lifetime I've watched a number of "paradises" disappear. They didn't really disappear, I only thought they did. In actual fact the concept of "paradise" was always a figment of the imagination.

[Tolley]

I can appreciate the three different periods and have lived through them all. There are so many variables that can characterize each period, but the transition from a relaxed social environment (the past) and less degraded physical/biological environment (the past) to a terrible social environment (the present) and horribly degraded physical/biological environment (the present) is clear to those with a long-term perspective. I am seeing some terrible trends: 1) acceleration of the degradation of the physical/biological environment; 2) rising xenophobia and associated anger and frustration (mental problems are off the scale--both farangs and Thais); 3) a new generation with nothing between its ears but anger and a love for alcohol and noise pollution. The new, shiny condominiums are not enough to make this "fetid smell" go away. On the positive side, Central Festival Mall is a great mall. And it is nice to have access to good hospitals and dentists. It is too bad that the promenade development projects in both Pattaya and Jomtien destroyed what was once one of the main attractions. RIP........yes, the "good days" have definitely left the room, but there are worse places to be, that is for sure.

Good post!!!

Rising xenophobia or rising contempt?

There's no changes of any significance other than aging and familiarity.

We all go through stages. 3 stages can be summed up as:

1. When we first arrive. (The honeymoon)

2. When we've been here for awhile. (2 - 5 years)

3. When we've been here for a long while. (5 - 10+ years)

During stages 2 and 3, the good days gradually disappear until they're gone. This occurs because people start to see reality... and discover all the "warts". Then there's the basic boredom of doing the same things over and over...

These stages are no more or less valid whether you arrived in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s or 2010s... Future expats will be discussing the good old days of 2016 in 2030 or 2040.

Find any paradise and watch it disappear as the years go on... It's all about perception and aging is a big factor.

Over my lifetime I've watched a number of "paradises" disappear. They didn't really disappear, I only thought they did. In actual fact the concept of "paradise" was always a figment of the imagination.

That is partially true in so far as culture shock goes through distinct phases similar to what you have outlined.

However it is also true that some places can actually change that much that what attracted you in the first place is not longer available. ie place became to popular leading to overpopulation more traffic more hassle, more expensive etc while it may never have been paradise it morphed into something other that what first attracted you.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

With regard to Tolley's post and post by Tropo: Yes, perception is critical--we do not all see things the same way. Aeging is also important in terms of having a reference point (e.g. past) that you can compare the present to. But, as Tolley stated, "some places can actually change." That is obvious, but needed to be said. Some historical changes are positive and others are negative. IMHO, the negative changes are far outweighing the positive changes. A place does not necessarily have to change radically or morph into a horrible thing, but that does happen in a world guided (unconsciously) by the cancer-cell mantra that "all growth is good, and more is always better." I am certain that the Pattaya-Jomtien past (15-30 years ago) was much better than the present, but not in all ways. The three positive developments that stand out to me are: 1) creation of modern malls, 2) better health care, and 3) better food choices. Other than those three things, the changes have been negative IMHO. In terms of perception, it is almost a certainty that "newbies" are not going to see the place like I do. Why? Because they have no reference point to compare the present to. The good news is that in 500 years (if we make it as a species) positive changes beyond our current collective imagination will surface. This place might actually be a very nice place to be by then

[Nasrullah]

Tropo........I agree with the Ist part of your post because i disagree with the 2nd part of your post.

Get this paradise thing out of your head.There is no paradise-just enjoyable relaxing places to holiday/live.Yes,familiarity(not ageing)dulls the perceived honeymoon.

When we age,normally we get smarter.You probably will notice less interest from the girls(normal).So what u said about the 80's,90's 2000's,2010 memories only has

a small truth to it.

Do you think most girls nowadays know how to take care as in the afore mentioned periods,or do girls come to patts nowadays just to have fun or maybe to lazy

to get another job.

i'm only new myself with a handfull of visits...but i have the intelligence to realise that 20yr ago this place would definately have been more laidback and fun.

Things do change,but not always for the better.....and what are we really there for ....hint-girls and fun relaxing holiday.Hospitals,dentists,hotels,food can be attained

back home.

So will the 2016 newbies look back and think these were the good old times...I think not(even though they don't know what good is anyway)Will pattaya be a better

place in 20 yrs....maybe.

Do yourself a favor and believe your memory of the past a little more,with some concessions ofcourse...

[tropo]

Tropo........I agree with the Ist part of your post because i disagree with the 2nd part of your post.

Get this paradise thing out of your head.There is no paradise-just enjoyable relaxing places to holiday/live.Yes,familiarity(not ageing)dulls the perceived honeymoon.

When we age,normally we get smarter.You probably will notice less interest from the girls(normal).So what u said about the 80's,90's 2000's,2010 memories only has

a small truth to it.

Do you think most girls nowadays know how to take care as in the afore mentioned periods,or do girls come to patts nowadays just to have fun or maybe to lazy

to get another job.

i'm only new myself with a handfull of visits...but i have the intelligence to realise that 20yr ago this place would definately have been more laidback and fun.

Things do change,but not always for the better.....and what are we really there for ....hint-girls and fun relaxing holiday.Hospitals,dentists,hotels,food can be attained

back home.

So will the 2016 newbies look back and think these were the good old times...I think not(even though they don't know what good is anyway)Will pattaya be a better

place in 20 yrs....maybe.

Do yourself a favor and believe your memory of the past a little more,with some concessions ofcourse...

I only have a 10 year back period to remember (as a full time resident), and as I didn't come here for the girls, I'm not finding much different other than my basic perception of Thai people and society, which has changed over that time due to the education gained from being here. If anything, other than more traffic these days due to tourist buses, the physical environment hasn't changed a lot, and what has changed has mostly been an improvement. Traffic is not really a bother to me as I get around on a motorcycle.

The paradise I was referring to is more an imaginary paradise that people see in their imagination... although I did live in Surfers Paradise, Queensland for 20 years LOL.

[ericthai]

I can appreciate the three different periods and have lived through them all. There are so many variables that can characterize each period, but the transition from a relaxed social environment (the past) and less degraded physical/biological environment (the past) to a terrible social environment (the present) and horribly degraded physical/biological environment (the present) is clear to those with a long-term perspective. I am seeing some terrible trends: 1) acceleration of the degradation of the physical/biological environment; 2) rising xenophobia and associated anger and frustration (mental problems are off the scale--both farangs and Thais); 3) a new generation with nothing between its ears but anger and a love for alcohol and noise pollution. The new, shiny condominiums are not enough to make this "fetid smell" go away. On the positive side, Central Festival Mall is a great mall. And it is nice to have access to good hospitals and dentists. It is too bad that the promenade development projects in both Pattaya and Jomtien destroyed what was once one of the main attractions. RIP........yes, the "good days" have definitely left the room, but there are worse places to be, that is for sure.

Good post!!!

Rising xenophobia or rising contempt?

There's no changes of any significance other than aging and familiarity.

We all go through stages. 3 stages can be summed up as:

1. When we first arrive. (The honeymoon)

2. When we've been here for awhile. (2 - 5 years)

3. When we've been here for a long while. (5 - 10+ years)

During stages 2 and 3, the good days gradually disappear until they're gone. This occurs because people start to see reality... and discover all the "warts". Then there's the basic boredom of doing the same things over and over...

These stages are no more or less valid whether you arrived in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s or 2010s... Future expats will be discussing the good old days of 2016 in 2030 or 2040.

Find any paradise and watch it disappear as the years go on... It's all about perception and aging is a big factor.

Over my lifetime I've watched a number of "paradises" disappear. They didn't really disappear, I only thought they did. In actual fact the concept of "paradise" was always a figment of the imagination.

Sorry but Pattaya has defiantly changed over the years, has nothing to do with the 3 stages. First time I went to Pattaya (early 90's) there were about 100 bars, not that many restaurants and no Russians or Chinese. Now the place is over built, traffic issues, increased crime etc however with all the growth it does have some pluses such as a wide variety of good restaurants to choose from, late night places to hang out, endless options for entertainment. When I first come to Thailand is was for work and very few tourists in those days, sure you see them in BKK and Pattaya but go to Isaan and lucky if you see one white guy, but of course this is going to happen when you go from 5 million visitors a year to 25 million visitors a year things are going to change.

[tropo]

I can appreciate the three different periods and have lived through them all. There are so many variables that can characterize each period, but the transition from a relaxed social environment (the past) and less degraded physical/biological environment (the past) to a terrible social environment (the present) and horribly degraded physical/biological environment (the present) is clear to those with a long-term perspective. I am seeing some terrible trends: 1) acceleration of the degradation of the physical/biological environment; 2) rising xenophobia and associated anger and frustration (mental problems are off the scale--both farangs and Thais); 3) a new generation with nothing between its ears but anger and a love for alcohol and noise pollution. The new, shiny condominiums are not enough to make this "fetid smell" go away. On the positive side, Central Festival Mall is a great mall. And it is nice to have access to good hospitals and dentists. It is too bad that the promenade development projects in both Pattaya and Jomtien destroyed what was once one of the main attractions. RIP........yes, the "good days" have definitely left the room, but there are worse places to be, that is for sure.

Good post!!!

Rising xenophobia or rising contempt?

There's no changes of any significance other than aging and familiarity.

We all go through stages. 3 stages can be summed up as:

1. When we first arrive. (The honeymoon)

2. When we've been here for awhile. (2 - 5 years)

3. When we've been here for a long while. (5 - 10+ years)

During stages 2 and 3, the good days gradually disappear until they're gone. This occurs because people start to see reality... and discover all the "warts". Then there's the basic boredom of doing the same things over and over...

These stages are no more or less valid whether you arrived in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s or 2010s... Future expats will be discussing the good old days of 2016 in 2030 or 2040.

Find any paradise and watch it disappear as the years go on... It's all about perception and aging is a big factor.

Over my lifetime I've watched a number of "paradises" disappear. They didn't really disappear, I only thought they did. In actual fact the concept of "paradise" was always a figment of the imagination.

Sorry but Pattaya has defiantly changed over the years, has nothing to do with the 3 stages. First time I went to Pattaya (early 90's) there were about 100 bars, not that many restaurants and no Russians or Chinese. Now the place is over built, traffic issues, increased crime etc however with all the growth it does have some pluses such as a wide variety of good restaurants to choose from, late night places to hang out, endless options for entertainment. When I first come to Thailand is was for work and very few tourists in those days, sure you see them in BKK and Pattaya but go to Isaan and lucky if you see one white guy, but of course this is going to happen when you go from 5 million visitors a year to 25 million visitors a year things are going to change.

There's no need to apologize. Of course the place is changing, but definitely at a slow pace. I'm sure fishermen from the 1950's would have a thing or two to say about change too, and would consider Pattaya circa 1990 "over built, traffic issues, increased crime etc".

[Bender]

a couple of years ago i was in thailand, and a friend wanted to visit Pattaya.

He dragged me there, and i finally spent 2 days alone in my hotel room.

I really can't understand how people manage to live there. You must be fubar.

pattaya is certainly the ugliest place i ever visited!

Edited March 18, 2016 by Bender

[onemorechang]

a couple of years ago i was in thailand, and a friend wanted to visit Pattaya.

He dragged me there, and i finally spent 2 days alone in my hotel room.

I really can't understand how people manage to live there. You must be fubar.

pattaya is certainly the ugliest place i ever visited!

So you have not been very far around the world then.

[newnative]

Hmm. If you spent two days alone in your hotel room you must not have seen much of Pattaya to base your claim that it's the ugliest place you ever visited. You definitely don't get out much--literally and figuratively.

[Naam]

a couple of years ago i was in thailand, and a friend wanted to visit Pattaya.

He dragged me there, and i finally spent 2 days alone in my hotel room.

I really can't understand how people manage to live there. You must be fubar.

pattaya is certainly the ugliest place i ever visited!

i'd say somebody spending two days alone in a Pattaya hotel room is FUBAR²

[Bender]

Hmm. If you spent two days alone in your hotel room you must not have seen much of Pattaya to base your claim that it's the ugliest place you ever visited. You definitely don't get out much--literally and figuratively.

no i mean 2 years ago was the last time i was there!

i didnt explain myself clearly, i did live several years in Bangkok. And i have been few times to pattaya, always with friends.(otherwise )

I left thailand long ago.

I was back 2 years ago, for personal reason, and spent 2 days in trash city...

the forum rule dont allowed me to tell you what i do really think of pattaya neither what i do think of people living there

Edited March 19, 2016 by Bender

[phycokiller]

Hmm. If you spent two days alone in your hotel room you must not have seen much of Pattaya to base your claim that it's the ugliest place you ever visited. You definitely don't get out much--literally and figuratively.

no i mean 2 years ago was the last time i was there!

i didnt explain myself clearly, i did live several years in Bangkok. And i have been few times to pattaya, always with friends.(otherwise )

I left thailand long ago.

I was back 2 years ago, for personal reason, and spent 2 days in trash city...

the forum rule dont allowed me to tell you what i do really think of pattaya neither what i do think of people living there

still, you must have found it a little interesting because you follow and post on a Pattaya forum years later even tho you have only spent 2 days there and hated the place

[newnative]

My point is, sitting alone in a hotel room for 2 days and not going out anywhere gives you zero credibility in spouting off whether a place is 'trash city' or not--and you are 2 years out of date to boot. And, anyone living here is FUBAR, according to your vast 2 day hotel room knowledge. On another note but maybe related, I have been following with some amusement the ever-so-serious discussion on the GFE (girlfriend experience) and SWE (street walker experience) and the BBE (beer bar experience) and perhaps I am in the minority but none of them resonates for me as to whether Pattaya's good days are over. I lived for 30 years in a nice town outside of Washington, DC. When I moved to Pattaya to live year round, the way I live my life did not suddenly change. I didn't suddenly become a drunk spending every evening riding a bar stool because I am now living in Pattaya. I didn't suddenly start taking street walkers home because I am now living in Pattaya. The same things that have interested me all my life still interest me and I still live my life much the same as I did in America--I just have a nicer condo with nicer amenities, nicer view, and nicer weather year-round--all for less money. Pattaya is far from perfect but you can live an enjoyable life here.

[Naam]

Hmm. If you spent two days alone in your hotel room you must not have seen much of Pattaya to base your claim that it's the ugliest place you ever visited. You definitely don't get out much--literally and figuratively.

no i mean 2 years ago was the last time i was there!

i didnt explain myself clearly, i did live several years in Bangkok. And i have been few times to pattaya, always with friends.(otherwise )

I left thailand long ago.

I was back 2 years ago, for personal reason, and spent 2 days in trash city...

the forum rule dont allowed me to tell you what i do really think of pattaya neither what i do think of people living there

who do you think is interested in what you think?

[tropo]

a couple of years ago i was in thailand, and a friend wanted to visit Pattaya.

He dragged me there, and i finally spent 2 days alone in my hotel room.

I really can't understand how people manage to live there. You must be fubar.

pattaya is certainly the ugliest place i ever visited!

Fubar is travelling somewhere and not leaving your hotel room. Fubar is spending time alone in Pattaya.

As someone already mentioned, to make that last statement you've either hardly been anywhere, or you spend all your vacation time exclusively in hotel rooms. Aren't there some nice hotels in your home city where you can enjoy your vacation time without the extra expense of travelling?

Which hotel did you stay at? Let's hope it was the Hilton.

Edited March 19, 2016 by tropo

[Tolley]

Hmm. If you spent two days alone in your hotel room you must not have seen much of Pattaya to base your claim that it's the ugliest place you ever visited. You definitely don't get out much--literally and figuratively.

Obviously hasn't had the pleasure of visiting Karachi or Calcutta for that matter

[Rimmer]

Thanks guys that's enough of the back and forth argument.

[NanLaew]

Just noticed that come June 2016, Pattaya will have its very own Harley Davidson outlet, just up the road from the Floating Market on Sukhumvit.

That, and the fact that Hooters on Beach is packed most days and evenings indicates that Pattaya isn't quite as dead as some would wish.

[Asiantravel]

" Are the good days in Pattaya gone for good? " I would say they must be after hearing a stunning piece of news that well-known Pattaya personality Howard Miller has already left and gone back to the UK after living here for 14 years.

[JESSVANPELT]

To quote others its all perspective and each one of us will have our own vision.

Although the City has grown, it does now offer us a lot more options, more restaurants, more hospitals, more hotels, more food shops, more service providers etc

I remember when Pattaya did not have Bangkok Hospital.

Again perspective, and as we see, its going to keep changing, so hold on!

[balo]

If you have money to spend in Pattaya the good days just continues until your last breath. And that might be tomorrow.

Edited March 31, 2016 by balo