Blue Housebook - Tabien Baan

[glegolo]

Hi all,

 

I have a freind who are claiming, that there are actually a clause in the law, stipulating that there is a small window or oppurtunity for a falang to be included in the blue housebook.

 

For me this is unheard of, but have anyone of you guys heard something like this, and if so,,, can you even direct me where to find that law or rule which gives this chance...

 

Thanks for your help..

 

Glegolo

[ubonjoe]

A non Thai person cannot be registered in a blue house book unless they have permanent residency. They can have a blue house book if they own a condo but cannot be registered in it.

[elviajero]

A foreigner with temporary permission to stay can not be included in the Blue book, but can be included in a separate Yellow book.

[glegolo]

Thanks guys so far........

 

Glegolo

[thaiowl]

I have Permanent Residence (PR) and as the final part of the process after receiving PR, you are required to get your name added to the tabien baan (blue book), which I have done.  Hence, as ubonjoe says above, foreigners can be registered in the blue book, so long as they have PR.

[glegolo]

So by any chance, after these great answers, anybody that have a link to the text in the actual law valid for this. I just love to throw (if possible) this law back to my friend, who didn´t believe me..

 

Glegolo

ps. citizenship do also qualify for being added to the blue housebook??

Edited September 2, 2016 by glegolo

[Liquorice]

You have to pick through the bones of some rather ambiguously worded legislation, translated into English to understand the way the Civil Registration system works for foreigners.

 

Section 21. Section 38 of the Civil Registration Act B.E. 2534 shall be repealed and replaced by the following: 
“Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Thai Kingdom as a special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration of the Cabinet and their children born within the Thai Kingdom. In a case of permission of temporary residence overdue, the registrar shall immediately dispose of such persons. The Director of Central Registration shall make profile registration for persons without Thai nationality besides those under paragraph one in accordance with the declaration of the Cabinet. Registrations under paragraph one and two shall lie in the manner prescribed in the regulations under the discretion of the Director of Central Registration.”

 

Those with permission to stay temporarily who register will be issued an ID number with the prefix beginning with 6 and issued a Yellow Tabian Baan.

Those given leniency for temporary residence (PR) will be issued an ID number with the prefix beginning with an 8 and can be added to a Blue Tabian Baan due to their status.

 

You can see from the attached list of TB 13 digit ID numbers, that those who are deemed to have entered the Country unlawfully (?) or those who entered lawfully with intent to stay in the Country on a Temporary basis are issued with a 6 prefix which only allows registration to be recorded into a Yellow TB.

 

Those with PR status are issued a 13 digit ID number beginning with 8, which for some unexplainable reason (and in the absence of a section specifically covering PR status) allows them to be registered in a Blue TB suggesting they were converted to Thai nationality after May 1st, 1984.

 

 

 

Thailand Civil Registration Act-BE2551..pdf

Tabian Baan Prefix numbers..docx

[glegolo]

Thank you FAZ great job

 

Glegolo

[democratus]

I don't have permanent residency - just a retirement visa. My name is in the Tabien Baan - my wife arranged it. I think if a Thai applies, there is/was no problem in Phuket - but when they see a fellang, it may trigger a "make plobnem" alert. When I recently went to open a new bank account, the Siam Commercial wouldn't process the paperwork until they saw my name in the Tabien Barn.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, democratus said:

I don't have permanent residency - just a retirement visa. My name is in the Tabien Baan - my wife arranged it. I think if a Thai applies, there is/was no problem in Phuket - but when they see a fellang, it may trigger a "make plobnem" alert. When I recently went to open a new bank account, the Siam Commercial wouldn't process the paperwork until they saw my name in the Tabien Barn.

Do you have lokhrung? Children with your thai-wife??? If so, your name is in the blue book because you are mentioned as their father,,, NOT because you are registrered at that address.

So you are NOT in the blue book.... if this hyphotetical theory about you having mixed childrebn, is wrong, then plse advise...

Glegolo

[MikeyIdea]

1 hour ago, democratus said:

I don't have permanent residency - just a retirement visa. My name is in the Tabien Baan - my wife arranged it. I think if a Thai applies, there is/was no problem in Phuket - but when they see a fellang, it may trigger a "make plobnem" alert. When I recently went to open a new bank account, the Siam Commercial wouldn't process the paperwork until they saw my name in the Tabien Barn.

 

A non-Thai is not allowed to be registered in a blue tabien baan unless he has a residency

 

Sorry, Impossible

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[democratus]

Glegolo - Yes, I have 2 children with my Thai wife. My name is in a seperate section to that of my wife, and entered in the same style, format, etc., as others registered in the book (when you marry a Thai, invariably some relatives wish to appear on the tabien baan, so they can enroll their children at a local school, etc).

 

MikeyIdea - Well, my name is there, in Thai script, and the immigration accepted it as "proof of address" when I renewed my retirement visa.

[PoorSucker]

5 minutes ago, democratus said:

Glegolo - Yes, I have 2 children with my Thai wife. My name is in a seperate section to that of my wife, and entered in the same style, format, etc., as others registered in the book (when you marry a Thai, invariably some relatives wish to appear on the tabien baan, so they can enroll their children at a local school, etc).

 

MikeyIdea - Well, my name is there, in Thai script, and the immigration accepted it as "proof of address" when I renewed my retirement visa.

 

You can be in the blue book as owner of the house, not as resident.

[diehard71]

can confirm that a foreigner can be registered in the tabien bahn <blue book,not yellow one>if you have a permanent residence certificate,in case you own a condo you can be rigistered in the blue book as the owner ,you will also receive a 13 digit i d number.

[democratus]

My tabien baan is a blue book, and the house to which it "belongs to" is owned by a company I set up for the purpose. I have no permanent residence certificate.

[MikeyIdea]

53 minutes ago, democratus said:

Glegolo - Yes, I have 2 children with my Thai wife. My name is in a seperate section to that of my wife, and entered in the same style, format, etc., as others registered in the book (when you marry a Thai, invariably some relatives wish to appear on the tabien baan, so they can enroll their children at a local school, etc).

 

MikeyIdea - Well, my name is there, in Thai script, and the immigration accepted it as "proof of address" when I renewed my retirement visa.

 

You are there as father, not as registered, and you had a nice and friendly immigration officer  

[democratus]

Yeah..whatever....

[swerver]

19 minutes ago, democratus said:

Yeah..whatever....

 

 

I'm with you.

The less you put your name to in Thailand as a foreigner, the better.  For a starter, how do you know it is your name when it is written in the Thai sanscrit style???

My condo has a Bleu book with nobody written in it.

My home has the old and now out of use bedsheet style form registration with nothing written on it.

Both I use over the decades when asked for and always accepted with nothing written in or on it. Except whatever the issuing office wrote on/in it in Thai sanscrit - which I cannot read.

If you have kids born in Thailand let their mother handle the registration, after all its all in Thai Sanskrit anyway, the only language accepted in case of a legal dispute. In case you want them to have dual nationality till 18-years of age register them with your embassy. But at age 18 they must decide with of the two nationalities they want.

[democratus]

I know the name written in the book is mine, as I had it translated.

 

My kids (one is 24, the other 17) each have triple nationality (Thai, English & Irish). My wife has both Irish and Thai nationalities. When I applied for her to have British nationality, a requirement was she must spend three years in England. However, she refused to continue with the application after she heard of this requirement, as she felt living in a third world country for 3 years was just too much of an imposition.  

 

 

 

[MikeyIdea]

28 minutes ago, swerver said:

..........

In case you want them to have dual nationality till 18-years of age register them with your embassy. But at age 18 they must decide with of the two nationalities they want.

 

Thailand does not require Thai citizens to choose nationality when they reach majority. If they can keep 2 nationalities or not is up to the other countrys' rules

 

And majority is 20 in Thailand not 18. Unless they marry of course. Then they reach majority as of the day they are registered as married regardless of if they are 20 or not

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

Thailand does not require Thai citizens to choose nationality when they reach majority. If they can keep 2 nationalities or not is up to the other countrys' rules

 

And majority is 20 in Thailand not 18. Unless they marry of course. Then they reach majority as of the day they are registered as married regardless of if they are 20 or not

 

 

You might want to read the Thai Nationality Act.

 

Chapter 2.  Loss of Thai Nationality __________________________  Section 14.18 A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

 

It is however rarely enforced, but I do know one Thai lady with English/Thai Nationality and Passports to match, (age 21) who inadvertently handed her British Passport to Thai Immigration on entry, then quickly handed them her Thai passport after realizing her error.

She was held in the Immigration office for 3 hours and in no uncertain terms told she must decide on one National.

As she lived in England with her Thai mother and English Father she had to keep her British passport to return to the UK.

At that point Immigration confiscated her Thai passport and issued her a 30 day Visa exempt entry.

 

 

Thailand Nationality Act.pdf

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, Faz said:

 

You might want to read the Thai Nationality Act.

 

Chapter 2.  Loss of Thai Nationality __________________________  Section 14.18 A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

 

It is however rarely enforced, but I do know one Thai lady with English/Thai Nationality and Passports to match, (age 21) who inadvertently handed her British Passport to Thai Immigration on entry, then quickly handed them her Thai passport after realizing her error.

She was held in the Immigration office for 3 hours and in no uncertain terms told she must decide on one National.

As she lived in England with her Thai mother and English Father she had to keep her British passport to return to the UK.

At that point Immigration confiscated her Thai passport and issued her a 30 day Visa exempt entry.

 

Thailand Nationality Act.pdf

Faz, there is no requirement to renounce Thai nationality. The important word is may.

 

It sounds like immigration acted outside the law, and had no right to confiscate the passport of a Thai national.

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, democratus said:

My tabien baan is a blue book, and the house to which it "belongs to" is owned by a company I set up for the purpose. I have no permanent residence certificate.

I'm just guessing but.....

 

If the house is owned by a company owned by you it might be why you are named in the blue book. The company is Thai.

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Faz, there is no requirement to renounce Thai nationality. The important word is may.

 

It sounds like immigration acted outside the law, and had no right to confiscate the passport of a Thai national.

 

As I understand it, up to 21 years of age there is no enforcement of a single citizenship, but thereafter a Thai national with dual citizenship, 'may' keep the other nationality by denouncing their Thai citizenship, or 'may' choose to keep their Thai nationality.

Thailand forbids Dual Nationality due to it's imperious nature.

 

Google dual citizenship in Thailand.........all sites state 'not allowed'.

 

In fact a good friend of mine who's daughter is 17 and visits the UK to see her grandparents, has been told at 21 she must make a choice about her nationality. Thai mother, British father, born and always lived in Thailand.

 

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, Faz said:

 

As I understand it, up to 21 years of age there is no enforcement of a single citizenship, but thereafter a Thai national with dual citizenship, 'may' keep the other nationality by denouncing their Thai citizenship, or 'may' choose to keep their Thai nationality.

Thailand forbids Dual Nationality due to it's imperious nature.

 

Google dual citizenship in Thailand.........all sites state 'not allowed'.

 

In fact a good friend of mine who's daughter is 17 and visits the UK to see her grandparents, has been told at 21 she must make a choice about her nationality. Thai mother, British father, born and always lived in Thailand.

 

I'm no expert and don't, as yet, have personal experience. All I know is the subjects been discussed to death on this forum and that those with actual experience (dual nationals) have confirmed that there is no requirement to renounce Thai nationality.

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, democratus said:

I know the name written in the book is mine, as I had it translated.

 

My kids (one is 24, the other 17) each have triple nationality (Thai, English & Irish). My wife has both Irish and Thai nationalities. When I applied for her to have British nationality, a requirement was she must spend three years in England. However, she refused to continue with the application after she heard of this requirement, as she felt living in a third world country for 3 years was just too much of an imposition.  

 

 

 

 

As you had it translated it would be interesting to know what 'status' you were entered as.

 

In my g/f Blue Book she is the 'householder' (Chow Baan).

Holding a Yellow Book of the same address, my status is 'stays here' (Poo assai)

[Liquorice]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I'm no expert and don't, as yet, have personal experience. All I know is the subjects been discussed to death on this forum and that those with actual experience (dual nationals) have confirmed that there is no requirement to renounce Thai nationality.

 

I doubt whether 99 out 100 Immigration officers would have a clue about their own Nationality laws.

They have problems singing the same hymn from their own Immigration laws.

 

The Chinese don't allow Dual Nationality either, but I know a few Chinese who have British citizenship.

They just keep a low profile and only renew their Chinese passports in China.

Renewing them through the Chinese Embassy in the UK requires a letter from the Home office confirming they haven't acquired British citizenship.

 

Would be interesting to know if the Thai Embassy in the UK had any such stipulations for renewing Thai passports.

 

 

[glegolo]

Thank you for all the interesting aspects of citizenship and dual likes of that, but that is NOT the subject here. I kindly ask you posters to respect my thread and write about the different Tabiens Baan that was asked for.

 

Moderator(s) plse move these posts about passports and citizenship and place them weher they belong.... Plse make this thread clean....

 

Thank you in beforehand.

 

Glegolo

[Liquorice]

17 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

 

You can be in the blue book as owner of the house, not as resident.

 

Define what you mean as resident, someone living there, or someone with PR status.

 

The Blue book is not proof of ownership, merely a registration of the address and those registered as living there.

Foreigners buying new Condos are issued a Blue book, but they cannot be named in it.

That is reserved for Thais or foreigners with PR status.

 

One person will be have the status of 'householder' in a Blue book.

All other entries will have the status of 'staying here'.

 

[Bangel72]

Be aware that even with PR some provincial government offices will insist it is not possible to be put on the blue book and will stick you on the usual yellow one instead.