May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

I am no terrorism expert but I think they always try to put as much distance between their base and their crime. You don't see many walking to the corner of their street and planting a bomb. The UK is not in the Schengen area and yet for some reason we have suffered numerous terrorists attacks. If there were border controls within the Schengen area all that would happen is that the terrorist would not travel so far to commit his outrage. The lunatic who ran amok in London by all accounts travelled from Birmingham. Now I would agree if the terrorists were able to enter the Schengen countries without any checks but the fact is that any person entering the Schengen area from outside goes through all the same security vetting that he would as if he were entering the UK

The IRA did not have much of a problem targeting British forces on mainland Europe before the Schengen agreement.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

talking about entering the UK. a few years ago we arrived in Heathrow coming from Brazil and waiting for our connecting flight to Frankfurt. there was no time going to the lounge and i wanted to smoke a cigarette after the 12 hour flight. after some minutes scouting around trying to find a smoking area i passed through a big glass door, was outside of the terminal where taxis dropped passengers, smoked my cigarette and went inside again without being checked. 

 

Crikey! Did you flag the security breach up? Doors out of airside are normally alarmed.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Flustered said:

Although it's breaking news, it won't appear on TV for a long while but TM has another arrow in her quiver.

 

Deutche Bank have announced they are committed to staying in London.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39378521

 

So much for the financial institutions lining up to leave.

So the German bank is going to move to new building and maintain a reduced presence in the UK.

How can thousands of layoffs equate to an arrow in the quiver?

[pitrevie]

52 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The IRA made a huge bomb from fertiliser about 25 years ago. They would not be able to obtain such fertiliser (or any other explosive materials) in sufficient quantities to make a large bomb nowadays because of checks put in place since then.

 

Abdelhamid Abaaoud's gang were able to move an arsenal of war weapons into France without any checks. They would not be able to bring them into the UK because we didn't join the idiotic Schengen scheme. And they wouldn't be able to obtain such weapons inside the UK.

 

The recent terrorist attack in London used a hire car and two knives, so your attempt to draw a comparison is rather disingenuous. It's such intellectual dishonesty that got you on my ignore list. I gave you another chance, but you're at it again. So you're going back there.

I will just add this link for your amusement. Apparently nobody in the UK could have an arsenal of weapons in the UK because we are not in the idiotic Schengen scheme.

Just a snippet I will allow you to read the remainder and have a good laugh.

A firearms dealer found guilty of helping a seemingly respectable parish council chairman amass the biggest hoard of illegal weapons ever uncovered in the UK has been jailed for six years.

Police found 463 illegal firearms, including rifles, machine guns and an anti-tank missile, along with 200,000 rounds of ammunition in a secret room at the home of crane operator and parish council chairman James Arnold, 49, in the village of Wyverstone, Suffolk.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pictured-britains-biggest-illegal-weapons-7400020

 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Flustered said:

So much for the financial institutions lining up to leave.

That really depends on on the interpretation of "much", you probably think that 80 enquiries to Dublin as "not much".

 

"Finance executives say privately they expect Brexit to isolate London, currently Europe's financial capital, and want to establish bases inside the EU from where they can access its market.

Dublin has received 80 such inquiries from financial institutions including banks, according to IDA Ireland, an agency that attracts foreign investment, while about 50 envoys from foreign banks met Germany's watchdog earlier this year about a possible move."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-uk-banks-new-incentive-leave-london-eu-plans-european-central-bank-a7643081.html

[Khun Han]

39 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The IRA did not have much of a problem targeting British forces on mainland Europe before the Schengen agreement.

 

Are you implying that no border contols is as good as previous border controls which had some security breaches? If not, what's your point?

[Khun Han]

27 minutes ago, sandyf said:

So the German bank is going to move to new building and maintain a reduced presence in the UK.

How can thousands of layoffs equate to an arrow in the quiver?

 

According to the FT, they are grouping their 5000 UK staff from various sites to one large site (the FT also interprets this move as a positive). Should be able to read it here:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d547c8da-1005-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

[pitrevie]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Are you implying that no border contols is as good as previous border controls which had some security breaches? If not, what's your point?

Schengen does not imply no border controls which you seem to repeat ad nauseum. As I have just shown with a story that blasts your previous ridiculous assertion sky high every country whether they are in or out of the Schengen zone has a problem with illegally obtained firearms including the UK. I have no doubt that any terrorist with enough money could obtain lethal weapons in any country in Europe.

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Are you implying that no border contols is as good as previous border controls which had some security breaches? If not, what's your point?

If someone wants to cross a border they will find a way, you cannot blame Schengen for terrorism. You only have to look at the uproar over Danny Nightingale to see how vulnerable we all are.

 

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

If someone wants to cross a border they will find a way, you cannot blame Schengen for terrorism. You only have to look at the uproar over Danny Nightingale to see how vulnerable we all are.

 

 

I agree that determined and resourceful terrorists will always try, and sometimes succeed in their endeavours. The various security forces acknowledege this, that it's a cat and mouse game. Does that mean that we remove all hurdles and give them a free run? Schengen has helped them hugely in that respect, as shown by the terrorist operation in Paris.

[sandyf]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

According to the FT, they are grouping their 5000 UK staff from various sites to one large site (the FT also interprets this move as a positive). Should be able to read it here:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d547c8da-1005-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

The move is not actually a done deal, unlike the job losses which was recently increased from 9000 to 10000 company wide.

 

"Deutsche Bank’s move is subject to the lease being agreed to and the building gaining planning consent, according to the memo. Land Securities, which didn’t comment on the other details of the talks, said negotiations will take several months and there is no guarantee they will lead to a transaction."

 

It must always be considered a positive when a company does not actually go bust. Some months ago the general consensus on here was they were dead in the water, or should I say between a rock and a hard place.

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The move is not actually a done deal, unlike the job losses which was recently increased from 9000 to 10000 company wide.

 

"Deutsche Bank’s move is subject to the lease being agreed to and the building gaining planning consent, according to the memo. Land Securities, which didn’t comment on the other details of the talks, said negotiations will take several months and there is no guarantee they will lead to a transaction."

 

It must always be considered a positive when a company does not actually go bust. Some months ago the general consensus on here was they were dead in the water, or should I say between a rock and a hard place.

 

Well, they were in serious difficulties a while back. Even remainers on here were forecasting an illegal bailout by the German treasury. Thankfully, Deutsche managed to negotiate a way out.

 

Yes, the move to new offices is still in negotiation. But the commitment has been shown. We should all be happy about that. I, for one, didn't wish Deutshe ill when they were in trouble for some of the same reasons that I'm happy to see them re-commit to the UK .

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I agree that determined and resourceful terrorists will always try, and sometimes succeed in their endeavours. The various security forces acknowledege this, that it's a cat and mouse game. Does that mean that we remove all hurdles and give them a free run? Schengen has helped them hugely in that respect, as shown by the terrorist operation in Paris.

As has been pointed out many times it is more difficult to deal with an internal infection. You appear to be suggesting the Americans have got all wrong not having borders between states. The EU has an external border and the US has an external border, whats the difference, other than the anti EU sentiment.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

Crikey! Did you flag the security breach up? Doors out of airside are normally alarmed.

no, i had to deal with an angry wife who dragged me to the departure gate where we were the last ones to board.

[pitrevie]

41 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I agree that determined and resourceful terrorists will always try, and sometimes succeed in their endeavours. The various security forces acknowledege this, that it's a cat and mouse game. Does that mean that we remove all hurdles and give them a free run? Schengen has helped them hugely in that respect, as shown by the terrorist operation in Paris.

Schengen didn't help that whatsoever as I have shown again debunking your claims, terrorists can obtain arms etc in any country including the UK despite border controls. No we don't remove all hurdles who is suggesting that, its not all or nothing its a compromise. We could bring air travel to a standstill if we implemented total security just like nobody is talking about removing border checks at the entry to the Schengen area. Schengen had nothing to do with the recent terrorist attack in London but it happened. Schengen had nothing to do with 9/11 but it happened. You just want to blame the EU for any and everything.

[Khun Han]

41 minutes ago, sandyf said:

As has been pointed out many times it is more difficult to deal with an internal infection. You appear to be suggesting the Americans have got all wrong not having borders between states. The EU has an external border and the US has an external border, whats the difference, other than the anti EU sentiment.

 

And as has also been pointed out many times, the removal of border controls in the Schengen zone has given free, unchecked movement to criminals and terrorists that they didn't have previously. With the advent of higher tech controls such as chipped passports and instant communication between security agencies, those border controls would be even more effective now.

 

There are reasons why the UK has relatively little gun crime, and why the few terror attacks that make it to fruition are low tech. The main ones are effective border controls and an effective security system, both of which keep war weapons largely out of public circulation.

[pitrevie]

41 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And as has also been pointed out many times, the removal of border controls in the Schengen zone has given free, unchecked movement to criminals and terrorists that they didn't have previously. With the advent of higher tech controls such as chipped passports and instant communication between security agencies, those border controls would be even more effective now.

 

There are reasons why the UK has relatively little gun crime, and why the few terror attacks that make it to fruition are low tech. The main ones are effective border controls and an effective security system, both of which keep war weapons largely out of public circulation.

Already debunked huge arsenal of weapons discovered in UK only in the last two years in the hands of a private dealer. If he could get them so could any terrorist. 56 dead in 2005 in London with low tech explosives. Four more dead in this past week as a result of just one crazed lunatic. Apparently the Schengen borders didn't deter any of those. 

All the technology you talk of is in place at the Schengen borders creating more borders would hardly obstruct a terrorist from moving from A to B within the Schengen area and picking up the arsenal of weapons at point B. Alternative he could of course strike within the borders where he resides rather than cross a border as they do within the UK.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

The move is not actually a done deal, unlike the job losses which was recently increased from 9000 to 10000 company wide.

 

"Deutsche Bank’s move is subject to the lease being agreed to and the building gaining planning consent, according to the memo. Land Securities, which didn’t comment on the other details of the talks, said negotiations will take several months and there is no guarantee they will lead to a transaction."

 

It must always be considered a positive when a company does not actually go bust. Some months ago the general consensus on here was they were dead in the water, or should I say between a rock and a hard place.

Some months ago the general consensus on here was they were dead in the water, or should I say between a rock and a hard place.

 

Was that a Sgt Rock and a hard place??

[Grouse]

Douglas Carswell just quit UKIP. I think they now have zero MPs? Hasn't that nasty Aaron Banks also left UKIP? Hilarious!

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Some months ago the general consensus on here was they were dead in the water, or should I say between a rock and a hard place.

 

Was that a Sgt Rock and a hard place??

 

Sgt Rock? Now there's a blast from the past! 

 

... the Brexit loving "Money Week" magazine is touting Europe as a great place to invest ... their stock market has been subdued in recent years but the economy appears to be picking up ... enough to make the good Sgt throw up!!

[AlexRich]

Also, loving a certain posters 'revisionist history' on Deutsche Bank ... .

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

And as has also been pointed out many times, the removal of border controls in the Schengen zone has given free, unchecked movement to criminals and terrorists that they didn't have previously. With the advent of higher tech controls such as chipped passports and instant communication between security agencies, those border controls would be even more effective now.

 

There are reasons why the UK has relatively little gun crime, and why the few terror attacks that make it to fruition are low tech. The main ones are effective border controls and an effective security system, both of which keep war weapons largely out of public circulation.

Schengen is an EU concept and we are all aware that the EU is the root of all evil.

It is an indication of the distorted perception that exists in the UK when several MPs and over 100k people were prepared to let Danny Nightingale off for trying to smuggle a pistol and ammunition into the UK, apparently a common practice with returning servicemen.

My nephew came back from Iraq mentally disturbed and hung himself. Terrorism comes in all shapes and sizes, if he hadn't been caught god only knows what the outcome could have been.

There has always been unchecked movement within this union but obviously totally unacceptable for the European Union.

[sandyf]

On 3/24/2017 at 9:31 AM, sandyf said:

Without a doubt.

In 1979 I took 6 portable ovens down to a customer in the south of France. I allowed what I thought was adequate time at Dover to visit the customs department but grossly underestimated. I had to visit 3 different offices for signature and stamp and in the last had to ask to jump the queue, they were virtually raising the ramp as I drove on board. I didn't clear at Calais but went on to Brive and went to the local office with the customer. We were there all afternoon as they scrutinised the documents and calculated how much tax had to be paid. Interestingly enough at no point did any official ask to see the goods, only concerned about the paperwork and collecting the money. When it comes to collecting government revenue, time does not factor into the equation, axxe covering becomes the priority.

The single market opened the door to a whole new customer base for smaller companies in the UK, it will be a sad day when they start putting trip wires across the entrance.

Smaller companies are beginning to see the trip wires.

 

The poll also found small businesses are concerned about tariffs imposed once the UK leaves the single market. A third of exporting firms say they would be deterred from trading with the EU if a tariff of between 2 per cent and 4 per cent was applied.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-sme-one-in-five-british-missing-payday-stay-afloat-battle-brexit-enterprises-businesses-employees-a7648406.html

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Schengen is an EU concept and we are all aware that the EU is the root of all evil.

It is an indication of the distorted perception that exists in the UK when several MPs and over 100k people were prepared to let Danny Nightingale off for trying to smuggle a pistol and ammunition into the UK, apparently a common practice with returning servicemen.

My nephew came back from Iraq mentally disturbed and hung himself. Terrorism comes in all shapes and sizes, if he hadn't been caught god only knows what the outcome could have been.

There has always been unchecked movement within this union but obviously totally unacceptable for the European Union.

 

Sandy, the fact that border security (and other security measures) sometimes fail is not even a remotely good reason to do away with security measures completely. That's insane logic. Sure, some people are able to smuggle war weapons in. But our very low gun crime statistics and the inability of islamic terrorists in the UK to obtain and use war weapons is proof that our security systems are largely working.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Khun Han

[pitrevie]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Sandy, the fact that border security (and other security measures) sometimes fail is not even a remotely good reason to do away with security measures completely. That's insane logic. Sure, some people are able to smuggle war weapons in. But our very low gun crime statistics and the inability of islamic terrorists in the UK to obtain and use war weapons is proof that our security systems are largely working.

You are repeating the same nonsense and it doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, it is still nonsense. Nobody has done away with security measures completely or has any intention of doing so. It is as difficult to enter the Schengen zone as it is to enter the UK, they use all the same security apparatus to keep the bad guys out.

You have also ignored the fact that the UK has suffered the same terrorist atrocities has any other country in the Schengen zone. As I pointed out the UK police only recently recovered an arsenal of weapons in the hands of a UK private collector. If a private collector in the UK can obtain an arsenal of weapons in the UK then so can any other individual. They don't need to transport weapons across any border, regrettably any criminal element determined to obtain lethal weapons can do so in any country.

Its also been pointed out to you and again you have ignored it, if you think Schengen is a problem then why doesn't the USA have internal borders, after all its appears to be relatively easier in the states to obtain lethal weapons. The USA is similar to the Schengen zone in that it controls its external borders.

This is just another way of you having a go at the EU which is a constant theme of yours.

[Khun Han]

33 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Schengen is an EU concept and we are all aware that the EU is the root of all evil.

It is an indication of the distorted perception that exists in the UK when several MPs and over 100k people were prepared to let Danny Nightingale off for trying to smuggle a pistol and ammunition into the UK, apparently a common practice with returning servicemen.

My nephew came back from Iraq mentally disturbed and hung himself. Terrorism comes in all shapes and sizes, if he hadn't been caught god only knows what the outcome could have been.

There has always been unchecked movement within this union but obviously totally unacceptable for the European Union.

 

Sandy, the fact that border security (and other security measures) sometimes fail is not even a remotely good reason to do away with security measures completely. That's insane logic. Sure, some people are able to smuggle war weapons in. But our very low gun crime statistics and the inability of islamic terrorists in the UK to obtain and use war weapons is proof that our security systems are largely working.

Edited 29 minutes ago by Khun Han

 

And I just noticed you've tried to compare free movement within the UK with free movement within the EU. What on earth??? Removing hard borders before the EU becomes a fully integrated federal state (as projected) is complete and utter security madness.

[Naam]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Schengen is an EU concept and we are all aware that the EU is the root of all evil.

a lot of people are not aware that it's the EU that causes tsunamis, earthquakes, double pricing in Thailand, 90 days reporting and yearly extensions of stay instead of permanent residence. there is however no hard evidence that AIDS and bar fines are EU inventions.

[pitrevie]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

And I just noticed you've tried to compare free movement within the UK with free movement within the EU. What on earth??? Removing hard borders before the EU becomes a fully integrated federal state (as projected) is complete and utter security madness.

What are hard borders?

Yes free movement within the UK even if Scotland become independent is exactly the same as free movement within the EU is exactly the same as free movement in the USA which is a federal system Another scare attempt, its a federal system only in the sense that it consists of sovereign countries that contribute to one organisation. Nobody as far as I am aware has suggested that the EU can pass any law that doesn't first require approval of the UK sovereign parliament before it become a legal enactment in the UK. Try googling Professor Michael Dougan you might end up better informed.

[Naam]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And I just noticed you've tried to compare free movement within the UK with free movement within the EU. What on earth??? Removing hard borders before the EU becomes a fully integrated federal state (as projected) is complete and utter security madness.

people who travel a lot within continental Europe might disagree.

[pitrevie]

11 minutes ago, Naam said:

people who travel a lot within continental Europe might disagree.

I pointed that out to him several posts back but as usual a negative response. The EU is trying to make things easier for people to move around, trade etc but we have to allow the terrorists to dictate how we run our lives even though the same terrorists manage to strike at countries such as the USA and the UK which are not in the Schengen zone. Apparently the USA does not see the value of instituting Khun Han's "hard borders" even though it has suffered more casualties than anyone else from terrorists. People are able to move freely across state borders.