Paedophilia

[Georgie-Porgie]

I hope that Lifelover doesn't mind if I re-post this and my response to it. I think that it is too important to be buried on a small thread.

GP

Lifelover Posted: Wed 2004-04-28, 09:21:41

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Joined: 2003-11-25

I said earlier in this thread that this case is not about paedophilia. I want to explain why and in doing so if I can explode some myths and open some minds, all well and good.

I was sexually molested at age 8 by a total stranger (once) and by a close family member (over a long period) when I was age 8-10. I suffered no mental trauma from these events and have demonstrated no abnormal sexual behaviour as a result of them. They go some way to explaining why I was sexually aware at a young age and possibly may have been a factor in why I was immediately sexually active post puberty, though there are hereditary and physical and social reasons for that, that are more compelling.

I’ve always had a fascination with sex, both academic and practical! I’ve studied child psychology as well as social sciences. I’ve lectured on related subjects and worked within a maximum security prison with murderers and sex offenders. I’m currently researching and writing a book about psychology. Because of my earlier experiences I’ve been particularly interested in the condition known as paedophilia and have made a point of reading widely on the subject, learning what I can about the minds of the people who took advantage of me as a child. As an aside, I don’t feel any hostility toward them incidentally.

This is not the place for a lecture, but I’d like to set out some food for thought. Seems to me that a definition is needed to start. This is from the Collins Concise Dictionary:

Paed – indicating a child or children

Paedophilia – the condition of being sexually attracted to children

Child – a boy or girl between birth and puberty

Hence a paedophile is a person who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children (usually under the age of 11 years).

That does not apply to David, by all accounts. I do not know David and so I’m only going on what has been reported in this forum. His only reported sexual act (and we don't know what exactly) was with two 14 year olds in Australia. This makes him a completely different type of person from a paedophile.

Paedophiles are not an homogeneous group of people with similar personalities, aims and desires. The most common age of the victims of a paedophile is around 7 and 8 years old, an age when children begin to discover their own sexuality and its power and are therefore easier to encourage. Men who are attracted to children of this age are generally not attracted to those older or younger and vice versa. What stimulates them is quite different. I repeat, we are not talking about a paedophile in David’s case.

Sexual attraction to sexually mature adolescents is not a ‘condition’ in the way that paedophilia is. It is acceptable behaviour in some societies. In many primitive societies the onset of puberty is the start of adulthood, for boys and girls alike (often with elaborate initiation rites) and pairing and sexual bonding occur naturally subsequently and not always within the same age group. When a 40 year old hill tribesman in the North of Thailand marries a local girl of 11 years (and they have children when she is 12), is he a paedophile? In some cultures here in Thailand, for example Lahu, this is not considered abnormal. I know so many families where this has occurred and they are ‘normal’ in every (other) respect, living very contented lives.

Primitive societies apart, let’s face it, the vast majority of people all over the world are sexually attracted to sexually mature adolescents! Did you never once glance at your daughter’s or son’s friends around the swimming pool and think, even for a fleeting moment: “Bllody hlle, look at that; wish I was 15 again!” Come on, you would be only normal to do so. And if you can’t relate to that, just watch the movie American Beauty. Or Lolita. Or even Scandal, the story of how Mandy Rice Davis (16) and Christine Keeler (18) stirred the loins of mature HiSo Brits and eventually brought down a Conservative Government in the 60’s.

As I said before, it is not unnatural for an adult to be sexually attracted to a sexually mature adolescent and vice-versa in any society. However it may be 'morally' unacceptable or against the law and most people find a way to control their natural insticts. Different social mores have imposed restrictions on generationally different sexual bonding, but this is a social function and therefore imposed, not a biological or psychologically innate one. Modern societies also impose laws that stipulate a certain age when sexual relationships are considered acceptable. These laws differ country to country of course. David has fallen foul of this law in Australia some time in the past. If he still has to pay for that crime and has escaped due justice, then it is right under the law in Australia that he returns to do that.

I have to say though (not knowing the full details on this), that if he has served his sentence and is being hounded all these years later because of past misdemeanours, however foul, it is unfair. As far as any of us know, he has not broken the same law in Thailand. He is not being deported for any deviant sexual behaviour. And whatever else he is, he is not a paedophile.

[Georgie-Porgie]

I want to add my congratulations to Lifelover on what you have written. Your feelings on this subject are exactly my own.

I've tried to explain to friends many times that we are being brain-washed and lied to concerning " child" prostitution and "child" molesting.

These are horrible problems, but very small ones in Thailand.

The NGOs that specialize in child issues like "ecpat" (I believe it is called), are actually very unconcerned about children, they want to stretch the issue to adolescents and even young adults by constantly referring to them as children.

These are mainly puritanical Christian and feminist groups trying to get rid of prostitution altogether. They only use the words "children" to sensationalize news coverage and to appeal to us emotionally.

They are liars, but clever ones. They have been very successful at getting the news media to legitimize them by calling adolescents and young adults "children" in stories about sex.

It makes a more exciting story.

This is not a defense of ######, or ######, or whatever his real name is. I don't think that the facts are in on him and his sexual charges yet, and besides, he has other issues.

[Boon Mee]

It was considered "normal" behavior back in Alexander the Great's time and in Greece in general to do a little "turd-burglaring". Times have changed...

[taxexile]

..

[wolf5370]

Surely the definition of a 'child' in any particular country is as described in that country's law.

If someone breaks that law, by having sex with a person under the age perscribed in law (a minor), then -in the eyes of the law - they are guilty of having sex with a "child". Therefore, the media will report it as so.

Whatever our feelings are as to what makes a person a child is not relevent to a case in law - the law is there and it has been broken.

Only a change in the legal description of a "child" can change the law.

As always - ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it, and if you do the crime...bla de bla.

If Australia decribes under 16 as a child, in law, and ITM has sex with a 14 y/o in Australia , he is guilty of having having sex with a child - and the above dictionary definition comes in to play.

Morally is a 17 y/o the same as a 3 y/o - of course not. However, is it illegal - if the age limit is 18, then yes. The difference will come in the sentancing - rather like the difference from stealing a chocolate bar againt robbing a bank perhaps.

A sad topic whatever the weather!

[Georgie-Porgie]

It was considered "normal" behavior back in Alexander the Great's time and in Greece in general to do a little "turd-burglaring". Times have changed...

Boon Mee, You are showing your age.

I'm afraid the taxexile is a lot more up to date on this subject than you are; Even Bill O'Reilly believes in "domestic partnership", which is pretty close to gay marriage, without using the exact same name.

I'm afraid that us "breeders" aren't as fashionable as we use to be!

[Boon Mee]

It was considered "normal" behavior back in Alexander the Great's time and in Greece in general to do a little "turd-burglaring".  Times have changed...

Boon Mee, You are showing your age.

I'm afraid the taxexile is a lot more up to date on this subject than you are; Even Bill O'Reilly believes in "domestic partnership", which is pretty close to gay marriage, without using the exact same name.

I'm afraid that us "breeders" aren't as fashionable as we use to be!

Showing my age???

Taxexile posted something about uphill gardening - what's so avant garde about that? I was merely pointing out that back "when" in olden days, the Greeks thought it was normal to have a few little boys around for fun. Aristotle and his gang used to enjoy the attentions of pubescent males but these days its strictly "verboten"!

[Georgie-Porgie]

I think that "uphill gardening" is another euphemism for "turd burgling".

[taxexile]

uphill gardening or as our american cousins might say...riding the hershey highway.

[Georgie-Porgie]

That's what I thought!

[Nat]

It was considered "normal" behavior back in Alexander the Great's time and in Greece in general to do a little "turd-burglaring".

Believe the Greek pronunciation for doing it Greek style (or getting one’s brown wings) is “apopiso”

[sonthaya]

In Denmark the criminal low age is 15, so below 18 don't touch.

[sonthaya]

That was wrong, what I wanted to say was below the age of 15 don't touch