International Tax Compliance Regulations Self-Certification Form - UK

[Speedo1968]

Can any one offer some help on this please ?

 

I am from the UK and have just received this form from my bank in the UK.

The letter indicates that there are new regulations.

 

I am a UK national.

I am non-resident in the UK due to the length of time I have been outside the UK.

I receive the basic UK state pension and a small private pension.

 

I have worked / lived outside the UK most of my life since 1968, some of those times I would have also been non-resident.

I did work in Thailand, with a work permit and paid Thai Income Tax for many years but retired in 2011.

 

The form I received asks for certified supporting documentation to prove that I am not a US citizen and

my only country of residence for tax purposes is the UK.

 

Among the documents that may be proffered are "my passport" or "a certificate of residence" by the country in which I am claiming residence.

Surely my passport only proves I am a UK national; for Thailand I am on an extension of stay based on retirement visa.

 

Has anyone else from the UK received such a form from their bank ?

Does anyone from the UK have a similar problem as myself regarding residency ?

[Briggsy]

It appears that you cannot self-certify that you are resident in the UK for tax purposes.

 

The next step would be to find out the consequences of informing your UK bank that you are not ordinarily resident nor resident in the UK for tax purposes.

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

It appears that you cannot self-certify that you are resident in the UK for tax purposes.

 

The next step would be to find out the consequences of informing your UK bank that you are not ordinarily resident nor resident in the UK for tax purposes.

 

Thanks Briggsy for your prompt and easily understood response.

[taxout]

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21978.0.html

You might need to file null tax returns showing no taxable income for the years after 2011, I don't know.

Edited December 7, 2016 by taxout

[partington]

If they know you are in Thailand or you confirm it, they may very well close your account. I just got one of these letters from my UK bank at my UK address (where I never am), and while not a US person, which is really what they are concerned about, I have avoided telling them I am not in the UK because it would be an insurmountable problem if my account were closed.

 

I am desperately trying to open an offshore account that's part of the UK banking system right now so if my UK bank do close my account I can still continue to function in the UK, for example receive rent payments, and operate my brokerage account.

 

Ironically I am planning to return to the UK for good soon anyway, but to be without any bank account there would be inconceivably difficult...

[chiang mai]

HSBC UK has been my UK bank for the past thirty years and they know I live in Thailand and it isn't a problem for them. They did however require me to go through a full financial disclosure call with them that lasted the better part of 90 minutes, everything from sources of income, expenditure, net worth, lifestyle, other bank accounts and balances etc etc. At the end of the call they said they were satisfied with everything I'd told them and we could continue our relationship as before. Perhaps if others are having difficulty keeping their UK accounts they might consider offering to do the same with their bank, if the bank is HSBC feel free to PM and I'll happily pass only the contact details of the appropriate department and contact person.

[Speedo1968]

16 hours ago, partington said:

If they know you are in Thailand or you confirm it, they may very well close your account. I just got one of these letters from my UK bank at my UK address (where I never am), and while not a US person, which is really what they are concerned about, I have avoided telling them I am not in the UK because it would be an insurmountable problem if my account were closed.

 

I am desperately trying to open an offshore account that's part of the UK banking system right now so if my UK bank do close my account I can still continue to function in the UK, for example receive rent payments, and operate my brokerage account.

 

Ironically I am planning to return to the UK for good soon anyway, but to be without any bank account there would be inconceivably difficult...

 

Thanks "partington" for the warning.    Fortunately I have been with the same bank in the UK for many many years.

They know I am here and have been in other places too.

Never a problem, the security is good, to the point where they have recently blocked my CC because they identified a correctly "not mine" online payment attempt ( payment not allowed ) during my being back in England  for a few days..   New card was sent and they repaid all my phone calls to them.     Also if any card is not used for a while I have to phone them to allow payment.

 

Re banking for you, surely there must be a international bank in the UK.    My bank, Nationwide, also have offshore account facilities.

[Speedo1968]

16 hours ago, chiang mai said:

HSBC UK has been my UK bank for the past thirty years and they know I live in Thailand and it isn't a problem for them. They did however require me to go through a full financial disclosure call with them that lasted the better part of 90 minutes, everything from sources of income, expenditure, net worth, lifestyle, other bank accounts and balances etc etc. At the end of the call they said they were satisfied with everything I'd told them and we could continue our relationship as before. Perhaps if others are having difficulty keeping their UK accounts they might consider offering to do the same with their bank, if the bank is HSBC feel free to PM and I'll happily pass only the contact details of the appropriate department and contact person.

 

Mine is Nationwide ( like yourself same bank for many years ) and they are quick of the mark on my travels if they suspect a payment that is "not mine".

They actually repaid my long phone call charge when I complained about the time it took and the delays in pick-up and transfer.

Best done at 3am or 4am UK time.

[partington]

Just a comment on the above

 

I do have an account with Nationwide International: they are, like many UK offshore banks closing down, and are warning all customers to move their money as accounts will be closed in the New Year.

 

My bank in the UK (I've been customer for 40 years plus), has been in the news over the past year because it arbitrarily closed UK accounts of retirees abroad, in Malta, Greece, Cyprus with 60 days notice, even for customers of 50 years standing, with no apology, leaving many pensioners unable to open a new account or be able to make arrangements for payment of their UK pensions.

 

I do not trust them, and with good reason!

[OJAS]

19 hours ago, chiang mai said:

HSBC UK has been my UK bank for the past thirty years and they know I live in Thailand and it isn't a problem for them. They did however require me to go through a full financial disclosure call with them that lasted the better part of 90 minutes, everything from sources of income, expenditure, net worth, lifestyle, other bank accounts and balances etc etc. At the end of the call they said they were satisfied with everything I'd told them and we could continue our relationship as before. Perhaps if others are having difficulty keeping their UK accounts they might consider offering to do the same with their bank, if the bank is HSBC feel free to PM and I'll happily pass only the contact details of the appropriate department and contact person.

I trust that they - and not you - made the call!

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

 

Mine is Nationwide ( like yourself same bank for many years ) and they are quick of the mark on my travels if they suspect a payment that is "not mine".

They actually repaid my long phone call charge when I complained about the time it took and the delays in pick-up and transfer.

Best done at 3am or 4am UK time.

 

I took NWI to the Financial Ombudsman in the IOM and won, they are a bunch of crooks and would not trust them with anything involving money.

[Savilesghost]

You have been sprung because of your state pension and private pension and in their eyes you may not be non resident, given these income streams originate in the UK and are presumably taxed at source 

 

It should be noted HMRC are really clamping down on stuff, and understand they are also going after people who maintain UK address' to claim state pension increases and winter fuel allowances but dont live in the UK and live in place like Thailand

 

Easiest way to stay off HMRC radar is to have no bank accounts, property or direct ties in the UK and if you do visit the UK make sure you stay below the prescibed number of days

 

 If your non resident in the UK, and have no intention of returning, no real reason to even have UK bank accounts as regards pensions etc as they will pay them into any account even in Thailand, unless of course one is trying to fiddle the pension system by maintaining a UK account and address to give the perception one is resident in the UK  

 

[Speedo1968]

Thanks Savilesghost.

I advised the HMRC, my bank, DSS etc the day I left the UK in 2014, I have been back once for 8 days this year.

 

I did remain resident ( by one day ) for the Referendum - although I own no property in UK but was still legally on the electoral roll.

 

I have worked / lived outside of the UK for many years ( not thru choice but because I was "too qualified for UK !" - not my words but those of many companies I applied to ).

 

Still waiting for my bank to explain the reason what my "indicator" of tax residency is.

 

Oh, HMRC website used to have a trojan virus, I complained twice in writing and once direct with a tax office, providing details of the virus, I had no response.

 

[bouph12]

Some more information in this thread:

 

 

 

[lelapin]

I have an account in Thailand with Bangkok Bank.  Would it be possible to arrange to have my Government and private pensions paid into Bangkok Bank, London branch and then transfer money over as required.

[MAZ3]

I've set up 2 private pensions to be paid into Bangkok Bank London and then transferred to accounts here, £20 or £15 per transfer, depending if you want it sent in Pounds(better because their exchange rate in London is lower than in Thailand) or in Thai Baht for lesser amounts.

Works very well and the staff are very helpful, I don't think they can hold your money in an account, as I believe they don't have private Banking?. I would assume your state pension could also be paid that way, the Government will also send your state pension to a Thai account. Good luck

[lelapin]

I have 2 private pensions paid monthly so I would want to accrue the money in London account and only transfer to Thailand once a year to minimize charges.

[Horatio Poke]

13 hours ago, MAZ3 said:

....I don't think they can hold your money in an account, as I believe they don't have private Banking?. .... Good luck

 

 

My understanding is the same as MAZ3's, but I would suggest that you contact Bangkok Bank to confirm one way or the other.

 

I note with some concern that both onshore and offshore banking opportunities for UK expats are diminishing.  However it does seem to me that although current account opportunities are disappearing savings accounts in Jersey, Guernsey, and the Isle of Man are still fairly readily available.  My guess is that these are suitable for receiving and holding private and state pension payments and subsequently forwarding them as lump sums to Thailand.  It's a possibility that you might wish to consider.

 

Good luck!

[MAZ3]

I have 2 private pensions paid monthly so I would want to accrue the money in London account and only transfer to Thailand once a year to minimize charges.

A big problem with my company pension is that their rules state, it must be paid into a UK Bank account(they can tell by the sort code).

Thus using Bank Bangkok avoids this problem, as advised, call them.

They may be able to suggest a solution, they were more help than my old company !.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[lelapin]

 

54 minutes ago, MAZ3 said:

 

A big problem with my company pension is that their rules state, it must be paid into a UK Bank account(they can tell by the sort code).

Thus using Bank Bangkok avoids this problem, as advised, call them.

They may be able to suggest a solution, they were more help than my old company !.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Would you suggest contacting Bangkok Bank, London or getting advice from a branch here in Pattaya. 

[MAZ3]

I would avoid trying any branch here, call or email the one in London.
They deal with these transfers etc, everyday. Just explain your requirements, if they can't help directly, I'm pretty sure they will assist you.

Regards

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[JAS21]

On Monday, January 02, 2017 at 9:16 AM, lelapin said:

I have 2 private pensions paid monthly so I would want to accrue the money in London account and only transfer to Thailand once a year to minimize charges.

Look into using xendpay ... appear to charge the same %age for whatever sum you send.

[topt]

On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 6:28 PM, MAZ3 said:

I would avoid trying any branch here, call or email the one in London.
They deal with these transfers etc, everyday. Just explain your requirements, if they can't help directly, I'm pretty sure they will assist you.

Regards

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

Have you ever actually tried to contact them by email? I did some time ago and gave up as they never replied.

As you mentioned earlier they do not have retail accounts based from there so it needs to set up from a branch in Thailand - instructions are on their website. When you say they were helpful did you actually visit the branch in London to speak with them?

[MAZ3]

Have you ever actually tried to contact them by email? I did some time ago and gave up as they never replied.
As you mentioned earlier they do not have retail accounts based from there so it needs to set up from a branch in Thailand - instructions are on their website. When you say they were helpful did you actually visit the branch in London to speak with them?

I spoke to them on the phone and emails where sent to them, they were very efficient. Even when my old company kept sending the wrong account reference number they emailed them and after that it was and has been smooth sailing since, I'm surprised you didn't receive any reply.

In both cases, the pensions were transferred to separate Bangkok Bank accounts. I didn't need to contact anyone in Thailand, just the London branch. But both accounts here were already up and running, might be worth I call to London?.



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