Transport Ministry wants to phase out passenger vans in six months

[whatproblem]

Things here only get done for one reason ,to make someone more money ,safety doesn't matter ,money money money ,I would pay more for a slower safe ride if I dared or needed to use a minbus

[hawker9000]

It's the lack of sense of responsibility that is the problem.  Let them drive for the money. They gotta' eat pay the rent.   But then when stuff happens, HOLD THEM RESPONSIBLE!  NO slap on the wrist.  NO pay-your-way-out.  NO who-do-you-know.   MAKE them understand that arriving safely, traffic laws obeyed, rest rules followed - in other words, a job well done - is the thing being compensated and incentivized and NOT just getting there as fast as you can.   But all this is a complete non-compute anymore.  And not just in Thailand.  Socialist Entitlement has taken over from a good day's work for a good day's pay.

[chainarong]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:42 AM, cmsally said:

I am trying to remember who has the franchise/contract for the microbuses. Can someone jog my memory.

Interesting observation............................

[remobb]

Yes, good idea. Reduce the number of van and cram more people into the rest of the vans. Why not put more vans and have regular scheduled times? Anyone arriving before their scheduled time are presumed to be speeding. Raise fares and run on time, full or not.

[bangon04]

" AS MANY as 40,000 inter-provincial passenger vans could be taken off Thailand’s roads by 2019 because they are not appropriate for public transportation, "

 

well it might take longer - the van drivers are doing their best - taking themselves off the roads at a rate or 2 or 3 a day, but this target is probably unrealistic. 3 years at average 5 crashes per day is only 4500 vans off the road. 

[ignis]

Have in the past taken [last one about 6 years ago] a few Mini Bus trips to Laos from Bangkok, all good drivers but there driving became a bit erratic after 7 + hours driving, so the last 3 hours or so was not that good.... When possible always sat up front with driver..

 

The local Mini Bus from the Villages where I live to Bangkok 50 km each way the 1st trip starts at 05:00 the last is 20:00........... That is 15 hours driving mostly in heavy traffic.

 

So is the problem the Mini Vans ? The Drivers ? Management ?  So replacing the Vans [most are new anyway] appears pointless...  So replacing the Drivers ? most will be erratic after 10 - 15 hours behind the wheel..  As for restricting the speed to 90 km maybe good, but still will do a lot of damage hitting someone/thing at 90 km because the driver falls asleep 

[retarius]

Removing these awful contraptions certainly would count as returning happiness to the people….the people that use roads anyway. Unsafe, unregulated and with awful drivers.

[lvr181]

OMG. All too difficult to deal with the root cause of most road trauma - DRIVERS. Just a lazy, incompetent and thoughtless "solution" to the problem.  Who is this idiot giving such advice to the PM? A re-active approach to the problem when a pro-active approach could produce better results, backed by draconian deterrents.

 

Those same idiot incompetent drivers will get a job elsewhere and so the road trauma will continue unabated. UNBELIEVABLE!!  

 

Hate to say it but, TIT.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by lvr181
additional comment

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, tomyummer said:

Rather than changing vans, just outfit each van with speed regulators, say for 100 kph.

Changing van sizes is just dumb because it will raise costs to operators and passengers and would not change the habits of exisiting drivers.

 

How about speed controllers attached to the drivers brain , although that would require micro - surgery for the operation. 

[jamie2009]

What about banning people travelling in the back of open top pick ups/truckson  motorways, wasn't the accident the other day between a mini van and a pick up/truck ?

[impulse]

I'd be curious how they define "micro-buses" and "mini-buses"  

 

I'm thinking they mean Toyota Coasters and Iveco buses, which are very common in China.  But when I Google it, the predominant links are for VW Micro Buses (I didn't even know they had resurrected them) and HiAces and the Nissan equivalent.

 

The nightmare scenario:

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by impulse

[zorro1]

Are those vans genuine factory people movers or converted commercial vans?
If the later the passengers have zero crash impact protection and should be banned completely just for that reason alone

[Acharn]

The vans replaced tour buses because government regulation of fares made the tour buses (which were a LOT more comfortable) uneconomical to operate. Now that gasoline prices have come down a little, the tour buses probably could make a profit again, but it would cost a lot to put them back in service and I doubt businessmen would want to make the investment because it would be risky. Meanwhile, how are people supposed to travel? Most of us don't have government automobiles with drivers provided. Have they announced what is supposed to replace the vans?

As many people pointed out above, the biggest problem is driver fatigue, and if they could figure out a way to address that much of the other problems would go away.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Acharn

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, cmsally said:

How can they not be appropriate for public transportation ? They have yellow plates, the plates that are needed for public transportation. Vehicles are checked twice per year, drivers take different test to get their "yellow plate license".

So they are giving them a license for public transportation and next minute saying the whole process is a farce ?

The major issues are - driver competence, driver fatigue, road safety/signage

 

I think the main problem is that the police are just not doing their jobs, and the drivers know this, so the drink driving, drugs, fatigue, etc will just keep going on, that must be the fault of the higher ranking officers, you know, the lieutenant colonels and other fancy ranks. Brown envelopes again perhaps?

[impulse]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

I think the main problem is that the police are just not doing their jobs, and the drivers know this, so the drink driving, drugs, fatigue, etc will just keep going on, that must be the fault of the higher ranking officers, you know, the lieutenant colonels and other fancy ranks. Brown envelopes again perhaps?

 

I'd agree that the traffic carnage is just a symptom of a broken system of enforcement.  

 

Other symptoms include people being electrocuted by faulty wiring, falling off sub-standard balconies, dying of pesticide poisoning, being beaten by bouncers, being mugged by (repeat offending) ladyboys, and on and on.

 

Fixing the traffic problems can't happen until they fix the root problem.

 

[DekDaeng]

On 1/6/2017 at 8:49 AM, MrJohnson said:

"What is required includes the following;"

and police with backbones -

 

 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I have to say,and maybe this is the exception,I live in a small village in the North East,Its  30 minute run from where we catch the bus to the main city.I have been doing this trip now for a long time,and i have never felt unsafe on any of the journey's.We wait on the side of the Sukhumvit and,sure enough,the van comes by and picks us up.The van is never overloaded,and the drivers keep to a respectable 80 KPM.At the end of the trip,the driver collects the fare's.I always pay the same as everybody else on the bus. I just wonder if these problem buses are peculiar to the coastal resorts,where the greed for money dictatates a need for speed.Or maybe the far proninces have a different look on the game.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, chainarong said:

Interesting observation............................

Microbuses? What exactly is referred to as a microbus?

[Grubster]

On 1/6/2017 at 8:25 AM, guzzi850m2 said:

I am not sure why he want to do that?

 

It will be extremely expensive to do on such short notice, how about those who just bought new vans and who to sell it to for a good price? 

 

I like the idea of a 90km/h speed limit for those things but I seen big +50 seater buses drive much faster than that, full of passengers off-course, so a limiter have to be fitted on the engine with a seal, so the bus can't go more that that, otherwise it wont work.

 

Yes much better training for the drivers is needed.

I think all busses and vans should not be allowed to leave there destination until two hours after there scheduled arrival, making a late arrival no big deal. Many of these guys are pressured to make time, causing them to push the limits of the law.

[Grubster]

8 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

I have to say,and maybe this is the exception,I live in a small village in the North East,Its  30 minute run from where we catch the bus to the main city.I have been doing this trip now for a long time,and i have never felt unsafe on any of the journey's.We wait on the side of the Sukhumvit and,sure enough,the van comes by and picks us up.The van is never overloaded,and the drivers keep to a respectable 80 KPM.At the end of the trip,the driver collects the fare's.I always pay the same as everybody else on the bus. I just wonder if these problem buses are peculiar to the coastal resorts,where the greed for money dictatates a need for speed.Or maybe the far proninces have a different look on the game.

I have also noticed that the local busses and vans seam to drive under the limit and relatively safely up here in the jungle.  Stand clear when you see a long haul bus coming though, 120kmph right through town.

[jeab1980]

555 will not ever happen. 40000 vans off road at least 60000 drivers lose job. Will never happen.

[Grubster]

22 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Let's analyse this further. Currently a passenger van is limited to 11 seats.  Most of us know however that they are often overloaded thus endangering passengers further.  This could be either due to the fact that there are only 11 seatbelts fitted ( not that many locals understand their purpose or how to use them perhaps) but secondly additional passengers add extra weight for which the vans are not designed for and of course impacting their C of G to make what is inherently an unstable slab sided vehicle even more unstable.

 

So as many are overloaded perhaps 40 % then to introduce  20 seater micro buses will do nothing to stop the carnage as other OPs have stated. But the advantage of course is that they will also be overloaded by possibly the same margin so instead 15/16 people being put at risk by greedy owners or incompetent drivers this will now increase to the potential of 28/30 people being put at risk. So at a stroke the Minister has worked wonders for the potential risk increase for passengers.

 

But there again you have to ask are there any conflicts of interest coming into play here with certain parties within this Ministry perhaps having business interests owning/operating/manufacturing/importing these so called micro buses ?

 

The up side of course is that with the introduction of micro buses ( if it ever happens) then there will be tens of thousands of the passenger vans surplus to requirements that no one would want to buy.   Then for a snip they can be bought up,  seats ripped out ,  windows replaced and turn them back into delivery vans for which they were original intended and designed to be.  Thus many of the overloaded pick-ups, generally stacked so high and dangerous also can thus be taken of the road and replaced by these newly converted box vans.   Thus with these pick-ups removed from cargo lugging acivities there would be no demand for them either so hence the price of these secondhand trucks would drop significantly.

 

So consider that the value of these pick-ups would drop  then this would provide the opportunity for the unlicensed and possibly under age drivers to move up from a motor cycle to a pick-up for minimal outlay ( or those of the irresponsible parents anyway).  So at a stroke instead of one ex  under-age, unlicensed and drunk  motor cyclist  being involved in an accident then that very same person could possibly,  in his newly purchased cheap p/u, be able to strike mayhem with other road uses thus adding significantly to the loss of life .

 

All in all it appears that the Ministers statements have the potential to get Thailand to the  number 1 spot in the world for road deaths - all at the stroke of a pen.

 

Amassing Thailand

I like the lower price thought but it doesn't seem to work here. Go to the used car dealers now and you will find that they have many nice used two door pickup trucks that they can't sell.  They won't budge off their prices and rarely sell one.  I don't get it.

[Kiwi1]

Probably wasting my time, but here goes:

 

If carefully analysed even the simplest accident eg slipping on soap in the bathroom , is a complex event. Many things could have been done to prevent or alleviate the accident.

 

Pretty much every fix advocated on this thread is relevant, but be aware there is no magic bullet or single fix to road traffic accidents.

 

Research shows that the most potent single intervention is enforcement. The most impressive demonstration was years back in the Australian state of Victoria where, for example, the road would be blocked and every single driver breath tested and those failing the test were immediately arrested and sent to the lock up for processing followed by mandatory fines and loss of license for a set period etc.  Other equally fierce methods were used to deal with speeding etc.

 

The result was not only a massive reduction in road crashes and improvement in driver behaviour, but there was a dramatic change in attitudes where most people came to think that it was not socially acceptable to drive after having a few drinks. Note that the change of attitude came after the change of behaviour. The common belief that behaviour will change following change of attitude does not apply on the road.

 

Campaigns to change driver attitudes always fail to produce results. Have a great feel good effect among politicians and the public, however.

 

No question that driver behaviour in Thailand is all too often dangerous. But also keep in mind that many Thai road users are vulnerable : Motorcycles and people on backs of trucks or in light commercial vehicles (minibuses / vans) have little protection in  crash no matter if they are at fault or not. Improved engineering of vehicles and roads work to help all the time.

 

BTW: if you stay off the roads at night you will reduce your lifetime accident risk by around 30%

 

[martijn12345]

16 hours ago, DNPBC0 said:

A major problem with passenger vans is the same as the problem with  buses - driver fatigue. What is being done to remedy this?

 

Yaba, Red Bull, lots of things actually

[toofarnorth]

1 hour ago, ignis said:

Have in the past taken [last one about 6 years ago] a few Mini Bus trips to Laos from Bangkok, all good drivers but there driving became a bit erratic after 7 + hours driving, so the last 3 hours or so was not that good.... When possible always sat up front with driver..

 

 

 

The local Mini Bus from the Villages where I live to Bangkok 50 km each way the 1st trip starts at 05:00 the last is 20:00........... That is 15 hours driving mostly in heavy traffic.

 

 

 

So is the problem the Mini Vans ? The Drivers ? Management ?  So replacing the Vans [most are new anyway] appears pointless...  So replacing the Drivers ? most will be erratic after 10 - 15 hours behind the wheel..  As for restricting the speed to 90 km maybe good, but still will do a lot of damage hitting someone/thing at 90 km because the driver falls asleep 

 

Speeding !   At last sir , your comment I like very big.  What is the point in limiting mechanically a means to give minibuses a top speed of 90 kph . Drivers drive with their foot flat on the floor , nod off at 90 then hit someone minding there own business.

[saminoz]

16 hours ago, cmsally said:

How can they not be appropriate for public transportation ? They have yellow plates, the plates that are needed for public transportation. Vehicles are checked twice per year, drivers take different test to get their "yellow plate license".

So they are giving them a license for public transportation and next minute saying the whole process is a farce ?

The major issues are - driver competence, driver fatigue, road safety/signage

 

It's not just driver incompetence.  The incompetence goes up from the drivers, through the owners,via the Ministry all the way to the silly little general.

[bubba]

16 hours ago, cmsally said:

How can they not be appropriate for public transportation ? They have yellow plates, the plates that are needed for public transportation. Vehicles are checked twice per year, drivers take different test to get their "yellow plate license".

So they are giving them a license for public transportation and next minute saying the whole process is a farce ?

The major issues are - driver competence, driver fatigue, road safety/signage

 

 

 

I think the highway accidents and fatalities are telling in how 'appropriate' they are. 

 

Whatever safety systems are presently in place are clearly inadequate and the result is highway carnage. Until they can find a way fix those safety systems, I think they should shut it down and prevent further unnecessary deaths.

[RocketDog]

The train from Cha-am both north and south is sounding much more attractive now. Yes , it takes longer and is less convenient for travel to Bangkok, but I have learned how to read and just pass the time in productive or relaxing ways.

As they say in my country: "Speed on brother! Hell ain't half full. "

Sent from my SM-G930V using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[toofarnorth]

Now here's a thought. IF they were all removed off the King's Highway , there would be thousands of minibuse going cheap. What would be any issues with buying one to be used as family transport. I have a saloon car but sometimes I need something bigger to take locals on holiday.

What would be an issue if a minibus was turned into a camper van hmm ? It is one thing not to use them as public transport but another to paint them in yer fav. colour and go touring therein.    Or will China take them all ?

[helloagain]

16 hours ago, DNPBC0 said:

A major problem with passenger vans is the same as the problem with  buses - driver fatigue. What is being done to remedy this?

 

Nothing of course. They will never be taken off the road