Somsak urges PM to be ‘respectable’ to politicians

[tropo]

5 hours ago, halloween said:

Respect has to earned. That pretty much rules out most Thai politicians, and every politician willing to sell his vote.

The article states: "be more respectable". That's not the same as "be more respectful".

 

 

 

 

[halloween]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Hmm, Thaksin isn't a third party of course. He leads the party for many years, and everyone knows it. These MP's don't really get there on their own merites, they get their because people vote for PT . Thaksin might be a criminal, so are the current lot (and they have not been convicted under dubious circumstances for some land deal, he wasn't even a benificiary off). 

 

All of your text, doesn't explain away that PT did receive a solid landslide mandate from the electorate. And it doesn't explain away that the current bunch of criminals (only not convicted because they granted themselves amnesy for their past and future crimes, hmm now amnesty IS ok right ? ) have no right to be where they are, they should be in jail, along with Thaksin. Thaksin for two years, and they for a few decades. 

 

But alas, the term convicted criminal in Thailand isn't worth the paper it is written on, again ignorance quite clearly shows in your case. I wonder, why do you know so little about the country you supposedly live in ? 

Being popular doesn't over-ride criminality. Convicted in Thailand is the same as convicted anywhere else, whether you think there is guilt or not.

Just because a party receives a mandate does NOT give it the right to ignore the law of the land.

[tropo]

23 minutes ago, fish monger said:

'Respectful' is the word he's looking for.....Not 'respectable'...

Maybe he does mean "respectable".

[sjaak327]

Just now, halloween said:

Being popular doesn't over-ride criminality. Convicted in Thailand is the same as convicted anywhere else, whether you think there is guilt or not.

Just because a party receives a mandate does NOT give it the right to ignore the law of the land.

And as far as I know they didn't ignore the law of the land. the ones that quite clearly did are the ones you support. you are a hypocrite and you seem to think people on here might be too stupid to see right through you. I for one am not. 

 

In my personal view you don't have a single leg left to stand on, your position simply is indefensible. 

[Smarter Than You]

31 minutes ago, halloween said:

This may be news for you, Thaksin pays MPs to be members of PTP, they receive regular payments from the party which he owns and funds. Your repudiation is of a completely different issue, otherwise known as a straw man argument, but in your case probably based on pure ignorance. MPs accepting payments from any 3rd party is a criminal offence in most democracies. As a party they vote for laws which clearly favour him in a clear conflict of interest. Not declaring a conflict of interest and recusing yourself is also a criminal offence in most democracies, as is allowing a wealthy criminal knowledge of secret cabinet deliberations. Thaksin is given access to those deliberations and actively participates.

Thaksin is a wealthy fugitive criminal; you may have heard of him. He owns PTP, and through the party list nominates his cronies and criminal associates to be MPs based on the vote for the party. None of those thus elected is subject to the individual scrutiny of an electorate, not one gets a single dedicated vote. Some people think this is acceptable, to me it is an abuse of the democratic system. Nominating persons of unsuitable character is an offence under the electoral act, as it should be, and the EC has stated that they considered disbanding PTP for this, as well as Thaksin's involvement in the last election, but they were deterred by the perceived high risk of political violence. That's how you win an election, break electoral law as you wish and threaten violence if you are called out for it. 

When a military coup throws out such a criminal conspiracy robbing the country, I am quite happy to acknowledge their government.

Recently, a list of Thailand's richest people was released - Thaksin did not even make the top 10.

 

If, as you believe, Thaksin is able to exercise complete control over Thailand's electoral system because of his wealth the question has to be asked - Why doesn't any one of the many people in Thailand richer than Thaksin simply outbid him?

No need for coups.

No need for street protests.

No need for people to die.

 

What is it that these other billionaires lack that Thaksin has?

Could it be popular support?

Why yes it is.

 

PTP winning election after election after election after election has very little to do with Thaksin's bank balance.

 

Why are you so worked up about "abuses of the democratic system" but have absolutely zero concern about the overthrow of the entire democratic system.

 

Your position is akin to saying jaywalkers deserve the death penalty and murders should be left alone to keep on murdering.

Irrational and idiotic.

[Smarter Than You]

31 minutes ago, halloween said:

Being popular doesn't over-ride criminality. Convicted in Thailand is the same as convicted anywhere else, whether you think there is guilt or not.

Just because a party receives a mandate does NOT give it the right to ignore the law of the land.

Very true, just because a party wins a mandate does not give it the right to ignore the law of the land.

Out of curiosity, if a party does not win a mandate can it ignore the laws of the land?

(In case you are unaware, the Junta did not win a mandate and what is Section 44 other than a tool to ignore the law of the land)

[YetAnother]

says one 6th grader to another

[Smarter Than You]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Being popular doesn't over-ride criminality. Convicted in Thailand is the same as convicted anywhere else, whether you think there is guilt or not.

Just because a party receives a mandate does NOT give it the right to ignore the law of the land.

Convicted in Thailand is most certainly not the same as being convicted anywhere else.

If you are unaware of the inept state of Thailand's judicial system do a little research on the Red Bull kid or the two unfortunate Burmese chaps facing the death penalty for a crime they obviously didn't commit.

Thai courts are most definitely not impartial - one's wealth matters as does one's politics.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Being popular doesn't over-ride criminality. Convicted in Thailand is the same as convicted anywhere else, whether you think there is guilt or not.

Just because a party receives a mandate does NOT give it the right to ignore the law of the land.

Ignore the law? That's hilarious. The number of charges and quick convictions by the courts of TRT and PTP compare to the Dem and colors that are support the military makes Thailand judiciary system a laughing stock. Now talk about the coup and all those human rights abuses; those were outright ignoring the law. Maybe that's because the military don't have the mandate and accountability and can ignore the law and the people. 

[seajae]

problem is I doubt there is any thai politician that can honestly say they are not in it for the money they can make, while bleating their innocence and displeasure at what the 4 questions mean they refuse to accept that they really sum them all up, I doubt we will ever see a govt that has ministers that are there to help the country and not themselves, doesnt matter which side of politics you follow, none are innocent.

[halloween]

1 hour ago, sjaak327 said:

And as far as I know they didn't ignore the law of the land. the ones that quite clearly did are the ones you support. you are a hypocrite and you seem to think people on here might be too stupid to see right through you. I for one am not. 

 

In my personal view you don't have a single leg left to stand on, your position simply is indefensible. 

As far as you know isn't very far is it? Start with Thaksin's passport - Surapong will try explaining that very soon. You have trouble seeing through your red lens.

[Smarter Than You]

19 minutes ago, seajae said:

problem is I doubt there is any thai politician that can honestly say they are not in it for the money they can make, while bleating their innocence and displeasure at what the 4 questions mean they refuse to accept that they really sum them all up, I doubt we will ever see a govt that has ministers that are there to help the country and not themselves, doesnt matter which side of politics you follow, none are innocent.

The Thai military on the other hand ...

[halloween]

37 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Ignore the law? That's hilarious. The number of charges and quick convictions by the courts of TRT and PTP compare to the Dem and colors that are support the military makes Thailand judiciary system a laughing stock. Now talk about the coup and all those human rights abuses; those were outright ignoring the law. Maybe that's because the military don't have the mandate and accountability and can ignore the law and the people. 

There is an obvious answer to that disparity - criminals flock to thaksin's parties for the freedom to operate without prosecution. When they no longer have that protection, you whine about political motivation, as if motivation matters a whit when the evidence is presented.

[sjaak327]

4 minutes ago, halloween said:

As far as you know isn't very far is it? Start with Thaksin's passport - Surapong will try explaining that very soon. You have trouble seeing through your red lens.

Wasn't he impeached for doing that ? there is no red lens. YOU are the one supporting criminals, I don't support anyone, and I expect the law to be applied equally and fair to anyone, including a bunch of generals. the return of Thaksin's passport, was done by a legitimate government and whilst Surapong was impeached over it, he did not break the law. 

 

Funny how all you can come up with is this minor issue, compare that to taking power at gunpoint. Do you really believe you have one bit of credibility left ? 

[halloween]

1 hour ago, Smarter Than You said:

Recently, a list of Thailand's richest people was released - Thaksin did not even make the top 10.

 

If, as you believe, Thaksin is able to exercise complete control over Thailand's electoral system because of his wealth the question has to be asked - Why doesn't any one of the many people in Thailand richer than Thaksin simply outbid him?

No need for coups.

No need for street protests.

No need for people to die.

 

What is it that these other billionaires lack that Thaksin has?

Could it be popular support?

Why yes it is.

 

PTP winning election after election after election after election has very little to do with Thaksin's bank balance.

 

Why are you so worked up about "abuses of the democratic system" but have absolutely zero concern about the overthrow of the entire democratic system.

 

Your position is akin to saying jaywalkers deserve the death penalty and murders should be left alone to keep on murdering.

Irrational and idiotic.

Not every wealthy person suffers the same level of greed for wealth and power. Being in power has everything to do with his bank balance, it enables him to steal more.

I would try to explain to you the dysfunction of Thai democracy, but I would have more chance of getting understanding from the village idiot.

[sjaak327]

4 minutes ago, halloween said:

There is an obvious answer to that disparity - criminals flock to thaksin's parties for the freedom to operate without prosecution. When they no longer have that protection, you whine about political motivation, as if motivation matters a whit when the evidence is presented.

Another lie. People operating within Thaksin's party have been impeached and some have been prosecuted. and some even have been whilst they were still in office. 

 

Now the current lot cannot be impeached, they cannot be prosecuted and they cannot be voted out. 

 

No credibiltiy left, I am done with you

[Smarter Than You]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

There is an obvious answer to that disparity - criminals flock to thaksin's parties for the freedom to operate without prosecution. When they no longer have that protection, you whine about political motivation, as if motivation matters a whit when the evidence is presented.

Seems to me the only side that operates with freedom from prosecution is the military.

 

 

[halloween]

Just now, sjaak327 said:

Another lie. People operating within Thaksin's party have been impeached and some have been prosecuted. and some even have been whilst they were still in office. 

 

Now the current lot cannot be impeached, they cannot be prosecuted and they cannot be voted out. 

 

No credibiltiy left, I am done with you

Don't claim, back it with a link or example. If you can.

Oh wait! Thaksin was prosecuted while his party was in office.

[halloween]

1 minute ago, Smarter Than You said:

Seems to me the only side that operates with freedom from prosecution is the military.

 

 

Good. Long may they keep the criminals away from power.

[sjaak327]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

Don't claim, back it with a link or example. If you can.

Oh wait! Thaksin was prosecuted while his party was in office.

Samak to name just one. He was acting PM and was impeached over appearance in a cooking show. too ridiculous to even consider.,,

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, halloween said:

There is an obvious answer to that disparity - criminals flock to thaksin's parties for the freedom to operate without prosecution. When they no longer have that protection, you whine about political motivation, as if motivation matters a whit when the evidence is presented.

Evidence can be interpreted in different ways. Say as an example, constitution court ruled that the Bangkok Shutdown was legal while the Rajaprasong was illegal or the court throw out the petition to rule the coup unconstitutional. Also evidence and witness die mysteriously in the cells or allowed to escape while on bail. Or intimidating methods were used to stop investigation into military corruption. You honestly think the judiciary system has been righteous and fair? Even Thai legal fraternity question the fairness of the Thai legal system. You seem oblivious to all this. Why? Junta kool aid.

[sjaak327]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

Good. Long may they keep the criminals away from power.

When you finally get a bit older and wiser you will realize that criminals are currently in power. the evidence to that is overwhelming by the way. 

 

You know what they say, don't fight fire with fire. 

[Smarter Than You]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

Not every wealthy person suffers the same level of greed for wealth and power. Being in power has everything to do with his bank balance, it enables him to steal more.

I would try to explain to you the dysfunction of Thai democracy, but I would have more chance of getting understanding from the village idiot.

So none of Thailand's billionaires can be bothered to rescue their country from Thaksin.

If wealth is all it takes then all they need to do is write a cheque.

They don't even have to enter politics, they could just each chip in a bit a cash and buy any election.

You want to know why they don't?

Because Thai elections are won by votes, not by cash.

Thaksin wins every election because the people have grown tired of being ripped off by the elites and having their rights trampled by the military.

Thaksin has the backing of the masses and his opponents do not - his bank balance is an irrelevancy.

 

It stands to reason that a village idiot would be better able to comprehend idiocy.

[halloween]

Just now, sjaak327 said:

Samak to name just one. He was acting PM and was impeached over appearance in a cooking show. too ridiculous to even consider.,,

You keep dragging out the old red lies, don't you? He was impeached for lying about being paid. he was never prosecuted, and could have been re-instated the next day. 

And supposedly I lack credibility.

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, halloween said:

Good. Long may they keep the criminals away from power.

I will be more happy to see you keep away from spouting nonsense and silly comparison. 

[Smarter Than You]

6 minutes ago, halloween said:

Good. Long may they keep the criminals away from power.

Not only are they keeping criminals away from power, they are also keeping honest Thais away from power.

How do you feel about that?

 

BTW - Should there be criminals amongst the Junta who's going to hold them to account?

 

Your cure is worse than the disease.

(Especially as the disease is as minor as a common cold and is being treated as seriously as a terminal cancer)

[Eric Loh]

5 minutes ago, halloween said:

You keep dragging out the old red lies, don't you? He was impeached for lying about being paid. he was never prosecuted, and could have been re-instated the next day. 

And supposedly I lack credibility.

He didn't lie. You just did. He just explained that the small amount was for transportation and ingredients. But the court interpreted that as wage based on a change in the coup 2006 constitution. Another example of court acting strange. 

[Chris Lawrence]

6 hours ago, halloween said:

16.667% never face an electorate, appointed by party list. That would include Chalerm and the UDD scum rewarded for their crimes with parliamentary seats.

two wrongs make it right?

[YetAnother]

pathetic; a group of people elevating  themselves above all others for no reason; worst people on earth

[Chris Lawrence]

50 minutes ago, halloween said:

There is an obvious answer to that disparity - criminals flock to thaksin's parties for the freedom to operate without prosecution. When they no longer have that protection, you whine about political motivation, as if motivation matters a whit when the evidence is presented.

It is a fallacy because the moral character or past actions of the opponent are generally irrelevant to the logic of the argument.^[3] It is often used as a red herring tactic and is a special case of the ad hominem fallacy, which is a category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of facts about the person presenting or supporting the claim or argument

 

The problem Thailand is facing is a reputable and working opposition. Before you shoot the messenger, these guys will need sound, reliable and honest arguments to make an impact. That is what the OP is about. Give em a go.

 

Your dogma is a negative response to some thing, idea or practice and should be interpreted as evidence for the intrinsically harmful or evil character of that thing. Furthermore, it refers to the notion that wisdom may manifest itself in feelings of disgust towards anything which lacks goodness or wisdom, though the feelings or the reasoning of such 'wisdom' may not be immediately explicable through reason.