live in thailand while working abroad ?

[oldwelshman]

Ok another posing question.

I am going to retire to Thailand in couple of years but looking at the possibility of living in LOS (spouse visa)  while working for my current company in various countries including china japan and austrailia. Is this possible, anyone else do this?

[rwdrwdrwd]

I know a retiree who does this, yes. There's no legal issue with it - you're not working in Thailand.

 

In terms of tax, the Thai tax rules are that income is taxable in Thailand by residents if it is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned. Though if you're going to be working for your current company, you're most likely going to be taxed at home anyway (assuming that's where the company is based) so it would fall under dual taxation legislation.

Edited August 7, 2017 by rwdrwdrwd

[oldwelshman]

15 minutes ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

I know a retiree who does this, yes. There's no legal issue with it - you're not working in Thailand.

 

In terms of tax, the Thai tax rules are that income is taxable in Thailand by residents if it is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned. Though if you're going to be working for your current company, you're most likely going to be taxed at home anyway (assuming that's where the company is based) so it would fall under dual taxation legislation.

Thanks. It is worth me considering this as it would add to my pensions while giving me chance to get house built and for my wife to live back in LOS.

[elviajero]

Your plan is no problem as long as you don't work in Thailand.

[DUS]

5 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

In terms of tax, the Thai tax rules are that income is taxable in Thailand by residents if it is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned. Though if you're going to be working for your current company, you're most likely going to be taxed at home anyway (assuming that's where the company is based) so it would fall under dual taxation legislation.

What if he continues to work for his (former) employer as a freelancer, invoicing for his "services" in China, Japan and Australia with just his private address in Thailand (i.e. no company set up either here in LOS or anywhere else)? Where would he have to pay tax then?

[anon789561]

there's no problem doing that at all. perhaps get some advise with regards to who you need to be paying tax to and when. apart from that if you're going to be working away regionally it might be worth getting non imm multi to save the hassle of doing extensions at immo

[gandalf12]

I do it, have done for years. Never had a problem.

[Altalake]

Quite a few e.g. airline pilots/oil workers etc. etc. commute to work here and there.

 

It is really no issue at all - just as long as you are not working in the LoS.

[Andyfez]

58 minutes ago, Altalake said:

 

Depending on your routine you probably wouldn't need to bother with a special visa. Just come and go.

I work in China, and have family in Thailand. Air Asia is useful.

In my opinion a retirement visa is less complicated than spouse visas anyway.

[LivinLOS]

What your suggesting is entirely legal.. But does come with one hassle. 

 

If you wish to extend your permission to stay, within Thailand you have to do so at the end of your 90 day entry (last 45 days locally, tho I have heard last 30 days in some other locations in the past) so basically you cant apply for your extension until day 45 or day 60 of any stay. If your work involves very frequent travel, or unpredictable travel this makes issues. 

 

To make it worse at that point they give you a 30 day under review added to your current permission to stay and you have to come back to them to collect it. Its usually done then but one year mine wasnt and they added another +30 days.. 

 

So you have an arrival good for 90s days, a 45 or 60 days before application.. Then a +30 to 120 days (hopefully thats it, but it is possible another 30) that can total 5 months of messing about, of being on thier schedule, of either not leaving the country or leaving with re-entry permits and being 100% sure you will be back at whatever the date the current entry expires or the whole thing is wasted.. 

 

Its for this reason that younger married guys who work often rely on a multiple entry one year, which are getting a little harder to get, or if your old enough using retirement not marriage as your reason to extend (retirement can be done entirely in one visit so only needs the first 45 days incountry. 

[khunPer]

11 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

I know a retiree who does this, yes. There's no legal issue with it - you're not working in Thailand.

 

In terms of tax, the Thai tax rules are that income is taxable in Thailand by residents if it is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned. Though if you're going to be working for your current company, you're most likely going to be taxed at home anyway (assuming that's where the company is based) so it would fall under dual taxation legislation.

Agree, that also how I understand it...

[anon789561]

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

What your suggesting is entirely legal.. But does come with one hassle. 

 

If you wish to extend your permission to stay, within Thailand you have to do so at the end of your 90 day entry (last 45 days locally, tho I have heard last 30 days in some other locations in the past) so basically you cant apply for your extension until day 45 or day 60 of any stay. If your work involves very frequent travel, or unpredictable travel this makes issues. 

 

To make it worse at that point they give you a 30 day under review added to your current permission to stay and you have to come back to them to collect it. Its usually done then but one year mine wasnt and they added another +30 days.. 

 

So you have an arrival good for 90s days, a 45 or 60 days before application.. Then a +30 to 120 days (hopefully thats it, but it is possible another 30) that can total 5 months of messing about, of being on thier schedule, of either not leaving the country or leaving with re-entry permits and being 100% sure you will be back at whatever the date the current entry expires or the whole thing is wasted.. 

 

Its for this reason that younger married guys who work often rely on a multiple entry one year, which are getting a little harder to get, or if your old enough using retirement not marriage as your reason to extend (retirement can be done entirely in one visit so only needs the first 45 days incountry. 

are they getting harder to get? I got one last month and it was a breeze. I reckon they'll stop them soon but from my experience just last month it was straight forward. I also here that HCMC are doing them now

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, DUS said:

What if he continues to work for his (former) employer as a freelancer, invoicing for his "services" in China, Japan and Australia with just his private address in Thailand (i.e. no company set up either here in LOS or anywhere else)? Where would he have to pay tax then?

I imagine that the address on the invoice is irrelevant. He would be considered 'resident for tax' in Thailand. If the income is received outside of Thailand then any tax liability would be due in that country, however, any of the income brought to Thailand might also be subject to tax in Thailand. If all the income were paid directly to Thailand then any tax would be due in Thailand.

1. Taxable Person
            Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Edited August 8, 2017 by elviajero

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, Andyfez said:

Depending on your routine you probably wouldn't need to bother with a special visa. Just come and go.

I work in China, and have family in Thailand. Air Asia is useful.

In my opinion a retirement visa is less complicated than spouse visas anyway.

Getting a 'visa' as a spouse is less complicated than one based on retirement. Extending a permit to stay based on retirement requires less paperwork, but extensions based on marriage are easy and IMO the better option if you are married.

[DUS]

19 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I imagine that the address on the invoice is irrelevant. He would be considered 'resident for tax' in Thailand. If the income is received outside of Thailand then any tax liability would be due in that country, however, any of the income brought to Thailand might also be subject to tax in Thailand. If all the income were paid directly to Thailand then any tax would be due in Thailand.

So the location of the bank account (in which the money is paid) determines where you have to pay your (income) tax? 

[Wake Up]

I live in Bkk on an extension of stay from a prior O-A visa. I work in America and China and have no issues. I use my computer and phone in BKK some to communicate with clients and staff in America.  I am not concerned about Thai authorities as they really don't care and I consider myself an American employer for tax and all other reasons. Take care. Good luck. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Wake Up

[NanLaew]

Done it for the best part of 20 years now including semi-retirement.

[oldwelshman]

17 hours ago, DUS said:

What if he continues to work for his (former) employer as a freelancer, invoicing for his "services" in China, Japan and Australia with just his private address in Thailand (i.e. no company set up either here in LOS or anywhere else)? Where would he have to pay tax then?

Currently it looks as if I may jin the Hong Kong part of my company so will pay tax there although I may consider setting up a consultancy if this does not work out as they would take me on for that also. Some companies work in very strange ways with transfers. I am not trying to avoid tax just trying to ensure I do not fall foul of any rules. I also been getting advice on pensions and it appears even when I am retired and living in LOS, if pensions in UK, the UK will tax me on high rate as they assume I am working, then I fill in tax return annually and due to DTA agreement with Thailand I will get a rebate on the difference between either the Thai rate or UK rate and the high tax band paid. I think Thai rate is less than UK rates.

[elviajero]

On 8/8/2017 at 11:01 AM, DUS said:

So the location of the bank account (in which the money is paid) determines where you have to pay your (income) tax? 

If you receive income in a country that country will want a tax return to determine any tax liability.

[DUS]

23 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If you receive income in a country that country will want a tax return to determine any tax liability.

 

Thank you for your reply!

 

As I am really interested in this, please allow me to construct the following scenario:

 

1. French citizen

2. Lives in Thailand on an "retirement visa" which prohibits him from working here legally. 

3. The French citizen works as a freelancer and earns a sales commission from (amongst others) a company based in the UK.

4. This French citizen has bank accounts in numerous countries like France, the UK, Germany, Italy and Thailand.

5. He/She invoices the clients (here: the UK one) from Thailand (showing the condo where he/she lives as the address on the invoice). He/She lists all the various accounts on the invoice as an option to the client (here: the UK one) to transfer the money to.

 

Now, depending on where his client (the UK company) transfers the money to (to pay the invoice) you say this French citizen should file a tax return in that respective country? So assuming the client pays into the freelancer´s bank account in the UK, he should file a tax return with HMRC? Technically, he is a resident for tax purposes in Thailand. Based on what tax law is he obliged to file a tax return with HMRC? And, even if highly hypothetical only, if the UK company paid into the freelancer´s bank account in Italy, in your opinion, should he then pay income tax in the UK, Italy or somewhere else?

 

Genuine question from my side because this topic comes up regularly with my friends who work as freelancers / "digital nomads" here in Thailand and I regularly tell them that I can´t believe that they think they´ll get away with not reporting their income ANYWHERE. Maybe a few do, don´t really know! But I´d love to know what the official tax rules are in a scenario such as the one above. 

 

Any ideas?

Edited August 9, 2017 by DUS

[oldwelshman]

Thanks for all responses. Interesting reading. I won't look at MEV either way. For retiring best option appears to be  spouse visa but if I work for few years first looks as if I can manage on the 30day VER as I wont be staying longer than 30 days at a time.

[ExpatDraco]

13 hours ago, DUS said:

 

Genuine question from my side because this topic comes up regularly with my friends who work as freelancers / "digital nomads" here in Thailand and I regularly tell them that I can´t believe that they think they´ll get away with not reporting their income ANYWHERE. Maybe a few do, don´t really know! But I´d love to know what the official tax rules are in a scenario such as the one above. 

 

Any ideas?

If they are living in Thailand more then 180 days a year they are tax liable on their world wide income. Some people say income earned abroad will be exempt for taxes if they are not brought into the country the same year it's earned, but I doubt this because it contradicts the first sentence.

 

Now, I doubt Thailand has the means or the interest in figuring out a DN's world wide income if he doesn't declare it by himself. Thailand is not Europe where every government communicates with each other to certainly not miss any taxes.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a tax accountant, so it's just what I think about it after reading lots of sites/forums. :-)

Edited August 10, 2017 by ExpatDraco

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, ExpatDraco said:

If they are living in Thailand more then 180 days a year they are tax liable on their world wide income. Some people say income earned abroad will be exempt for taxes if they are not brought into the country the same year it's earned, but I doubt this because it contradicts the first sentence.

 

Now, I doubt Thailand has the means or the interest in figuring out a DN's world wide income if he doesn't declare it by himself. Thailand is not Europe where every government communicates with each other to certainly not miss any taxes.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a tax accountant, so it's just what I think about it after reading lots of sites/forums. :-)

I doubt your interpretation, because it contradicts Thai tax law. Perhaps, the following from a Thai government publication will help to convince you (http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html):

Quote

 A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

Note that foreign sourced income not brought into Thailand, is not taxable in Thailand.

[ExpatDraco]

50 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I doubt your interpretation, because it contradicts Thai tax law. Perhaps, the following from a Thai government publication will help to convince you (http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html):

Note that foreign sourced income not brought into Thailand, is not taxable in Thailand.

Ok, I follow you and will stand corrected. What about this situation:

 

A DN is remotely working from Chiang Mai and gets paid by his Bulgarian company (who invoices his EU clients) into a German bank account (so this isn't taxable in Thailand). His tax residency is Thailand because he lives here more then 180 days. He withdraws money from the German account using ATMs. If I follow your reasoning, he should declare every withdrawal to the tax authorities in Thailand? Or what's the correct tax situation in this case? How will the Thai tax authorities know about every withdrawal?

 

Just trying to figure the DN stuff out. :-)

 

kind regards,

ED.

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, ExpatDraco said:

A DN is remotely working from Chiang Mai and gets paid by his Bulgarian company (who invoices his EU clients) into a German bank account (so this isn't taxable in Thailand). His tax residency is Thailand because he lives here more then 180 days. He withdraws money from the German account using ATMs. If I follow your reasoning, he should declare every withdrawal to the tax authorities in Thailand? Or what's the correct tax situation in this case? How will the Thai tax authorities know about every withdrawal?

Yes, if the money being withdrawn through the ATM is foreign income earned in the same tax year, it should be declared. People who have sufficient savings can segregate current year earnings from other finances, and legally avoid tax by leaving current year income alone except for settling foreign bills. In a way, this is a bit unfair on those who do not have the financial cushion to be able to do this.

[ExpatDraco]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

Yes, if the money being withdrawn through the ATM is foreign income earned in the same tax year, it should be declared. People who have sufficient savings can segregate current year earnings from other finances, and legally avoid tax by leaving current year income alone except for settling foreign bills. In a way, this is a bit unfair on those who do not have the financial cushion to be able to do this.

I wonder how many DN's declare such ATM withdrawals? :-D

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, ExpatDraco said:

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

Yes, if the money being withdrawn through the ATM is foreign income earned in the same tax year, it should be declared. People who have sufficient savings can segregate current year earnings from other finances, and legally avoid tax by leaving current year income alone except for settling foreign bills. In a way, this is a bit unfair on those who do not have the financial cushion to be able to do this.

I wonder how many DN's declare such ATM withdrawals? :-D

I suspect we would agree on the likely proportion that do so. Maybe, at some point, banks will be compelled to report these withdrawals so, potentially at least, the tax laws as written can be enforced.

[Dave67]

Yes been doing it for 15 years, no problem going in and as tourist to start with but I started getting spousal Visas 5 years ago