CMExpat79

Hi All,

Just thought I would give you all an update of our journey back to the UK with our two dogs!

Both my shihtzus are now snuggled up safe with us in England, and we are delighted! The process may seem daunting at first but I can honestly say it is so worth it to have them home with us. The climate, allthough a tad colder is really suiting them, they are both much lively and have so much energy to run about.

We actually managed to fly the dogs with Thai Airways Cargo even though this airline does not allowsnub nosed dogs...I dont know how they allowed us to but they did. It may be due to the fact that we flew them from Chiang Mai, and they only had 3 hours transit in bangkok, then off to heathrow.

A few things we found out:

1. Make sure that each page of the Annex 2 certificate is stamped by the official body in Bangkok (in our case it wasthe office at chiang mai as the dogs were only transiting in bangkok with the same airline) this is differenat to the stamp your vet will give you which also needs to be puton there.

2. Make sure that you have the pets vaccine books, with the original rabies vaccine sticker, and dogs id details on the book - ie their name/ mircochipo chip number etc. The customs office at Heathrow must have the originals of all documents before they will release them.

cost for flights with thai airways cargho (total weight was 20kg for both dogs inc. cages) for 16,000 thb.

cost forusing the services of james cargo (who were fab) including customs/import fees was 460 gbp

good luck all!

Quick question....does anyone know where in Chiang Mai we can buy the Live Animal stickers to put on the dogs carriers??

We asked the cargo guy at the airport but he says we need to get them from the UK???

Hi

The microchipo has to be ISO standard

Rabies injection - the vet must administer the after the pet has been microchipped. They will put the sticker from the actual rabies vaccine in your pets vaccine booklet, as well as stamp their vets stamp on that page too. They will also fill in their part of the third country vet certificate (annex 2 for the uk) which wil then be verified by the animal quarantine station in Bangkok.

Sending the sample is really easy. The serum version lasts longer, we literally bought a small box from the thai post office, and placed a small ice pack from Big C inside (we froze the ice pack in our freezer overnight) we then placed bubble wrap in the box to give it some extra protection.

Personally I would buy the packaging yourself, as a company will charge you more.

If you ask the lab inthe UK for guicande on how to package they will be able to tell you more. It is really easy, and much cheaper

You will also need to attach an envelop on the outside of the box with an import permit (the lab will give you this to print off) for customs in the UK to access if needed.

I was also approached by a company in bangkok who wanted to do this for me for 20k per dog, which is just too much. You should also note that the sample (if sending your dog to the UK) should be sent to an approved EU lab as listed on DEFRAs website.

Hope this helps and good luck....

ps has anyone sent their dog recently to the UK under the new rules?? just out of curiosty

yeah I am 99.99% sure that the 3 month wait begins the day that the blood sample was taken providing the sample was satisfactory (ie no rabies )

Nienke - 6 dogs! gosh if they can send 6 over I am sure we will be fine with our two hahah, allthough this whole process is nervewracking when its your own pets, but Im sure it will all be fine

hi

we have actually been thinking about sending our dogs early too, I have had top return to the UK and my partner is still in thailand with the dogs (they have a month left to wait before they can enter the UK)

I asked a UK customs clearance agent (James Cargo) a similar question ie if we were to enter the UK with the dogs now vs June 7th how lone would the be quarantined...there answer was 1 month, as this is how long we would have had remaining for the process.

so if for example, you had your dogs blood sample taken today (8 May) and the result was satisfactory, and you flew her/him home on 8 June, your pet would need to be quarantined for the remaining time left of the process ie 2 months. hope this makes sense.

I think this is correct! so I would try and ring defra rather than email them as its quicker

May I ask, have you got a rabies vaccine certificate? this is the one point that is concerning me for our move, as we didnt get an official certificate? do they just mean the thrid country vet certificate ???

we have the stamp intheir vet books, with the rabies vaccine sticker with vaccine no/ batch etc on ...hope this is enough!

In terms of your second question, I think its down to preferance, the cost I think is a little higher than doing it yourself but its purely down to what you feel more comfortable with. One thing I would say is make sure the agents are using a defra approved airline, as when I was getting quotes last year they were suggesting non approved airlines...

good luck and keep us posted

The UK lab gave me two choices, they said I could either send 1ml of serum or 2ml of clotted blood - not 100% sure on what clotted is, or whether that is pure blood...

http://vla.defra.gov.uk/vlascientific/vlas_test_pet.htm

in the end we just sent 3ml of serum per dog, as the vet said that was the min. amount they could take for us. our parcel got send out of thailand quickly, but UK customs held it for almost a week...got their in the end

hmmm... I can't see why they wont do it. possibly like you said just a communication thing.

maybe he thinks you mean you want him to send it? or maybe he doesnt have the facilties to turn it into a serum for you?

sorry dont know what to suggest, as he should be able to take a sample for you.

if its the serum thats an issue, i know that the lab in the UK says you can send it in a non-serum form, so that may be a way around it, however if sent this way im not sure how durable the sample is, as serum forms are said to last longer.

if you can try again, good luck and fingers crossed its just a mix up

Im not sure for labs, but for my 2 shihtzus the cost for flights with finnair is about 22,000bt. Plus import fees at UK customs for both dogs is 400 GBP.

Was the quote you were given via a pet relocation agent, as they were the quotes I was getting about 5 months ago- which I agree is alot! hence we are doing it by ourselves.

Try contacting some of the airlines cargo department on the list of defra approved airlines directly and let them know the weight of your dogs including their carrier, plus the dogs dimensions.

Singapore airlines is a popular suggestion

Alternativly, air berlin go from BKK to germany, and you can take your dogs as excess baggae for about 200 euro each. BUT you cant go direct into the uk with this airline as its not approved nor can they go direct into the uk as excess baggage. UK rules state that dogs/ pets must go into the UK via air as cargo.

My advice is dont use a pet relocation agent, they charge a fortune. Remember too that if you havnt had your dogs micro chipped you need to start the process 4 months in advance to going home and not 3 months.

1)microchip dogs

2) then rabies injection (must be after step one)

3) wait 30 days

4) Blood serum sample to be taken and sent to a UK approved lab (see defra site)

5) wait 3 months

6) then you can enter the uk

the process seems daunting at first, and finding airlines has been tough, maybe more so for us as we have snub nosed dogs, but as you have labs all defra approved airlines should accept them.

I know it was really cheap! it was the animal hospital next to the dunlop shop on the main road where the new big c is (ex carrefour) They have been brilliant with us. Originally they quoted us 12,000 bt! but that was to use a company in bangkok - the whole process including flights is a bit expensive hence we just opted to send ourselves

that cost was just for the blood sample, the turned into a serum. The postage we paid ourselve, which was a little more expensive at 1000bt - but I cant complain really

Nienke - do you happen to know anything about who and where I can get the third country vet certificate validated? Its a new form for the uk named annex 2 that is now being used, and is valid for 10 days (so i need to do this the week we fly the dogs home) Im in chiang mai, as you know, but finnair is telling us:

a)we need to be in bangkok 3 days before we fly as we need to take the dogs to the airport for a check by the vet there who will issue an export permit?

is it this place in bangkok who will give the tapeworm treatment and validate the official certificiate?

c)or do we do this in chiang mai, if so where and is it instant?

as the tapeworm treatment needs done between 24 and 150 hours before entering the uk, does that get done before the certificate is validated?

this bit is what is confusing me - thanks again as you have advised us via pm on other things about sending the dogs back for which we are very gratefull!

Thank you all for your replies.

I called emirates, and they confirmed booking via an agent would be fine. So my partner booked my ticket that way for me, and all looks fine so far with the booking, which is now confirmed.

thanks again

Just an update on our move back to the uk with our shihtzus - as it may be of use to anyone else in the same position.

2 weeks ago (which was 30 days after the rabies injection) we had the dogs blood samples taken. The vet turned it into a serum for us, which took about 2 hours and cost 200 bt each.

We decided to send the samples ourselves to a defra approved lab in the uk. There are companies in thailand who can do this, but they charged a fortune so we just did it ourselves. We posted via ems, and included a gel icepack in the package to keep the serum as cool as possible.

Today we recieved confirmation that both serum samples were satisfactory and have an emailed copy of the certificate from the lab. We now awaiting the original hard copies to be sent via post. Cost for the rabies test on the samples is 50GBP as we asked for a posted certificate and the test where it measures the exact amount rather than a simple pass or fail result.

We have about 2.5 months to go before the dogs fly back home. so next step is getting the new version of the third country vet certificate validated (not sure who does this in chiang mai?), tapeworm treatment and export permit - so fingers crossed its easy-ish from here!

cheekyweasel:

not sure if its the same cost for cats, allthough I presume it would be - but for import fees (ie clearance at HM Customs we have been quoted about 400 GBP so 200 GBP per dog. This however, is with a company named James Cargo.

Once our dogs land at heathrow, the animal reception centre will pick them up, do their checks - and then HM customs do there bit (which is what needs paid for)

In terms of microchip. Double check it is an ISO standard chip, this is so it can be read by the ARC at heathrow. Our dogs have chips by petrac thai. The vet gave us a temporary card, and we were sent an official certificate in the post a week later. Not 100% sure if this is needed on the UK side, but maybe call defra and double check.

Also we havnt registered the chip online as we have a certificate, and all of the dogs documents have the chip number on - not sure if i need to register it anywhere. But I do know wit petrac chips i can update the UK system with our british address when we get there.

Im trying to book a flight to the UK online with Emirates, however it will be my partner who is booking for me, and he will not be on the same flight.

Looking at Emirates site, they state that this is not permitted as the person who pays for the flight via credit card must be in the travel party, which he will not.

However, I have found a site named cheaptickets.th which I think is a travel agent, and they state that they do allow someone else to book a flight for you.

Has anyone done this before, or done so with this company, and was it ok when you checked in? I would go and pay in cash, however I am in Chiang Mai, and need to book the flight asap.

hi there, did you manage to find an airline for your pugs?

klm accept snub nosed dogs but only for a limited time only as they are going to ban these breed on flighst soon too.

air france, advised me they would not allow snub nosed dogs in december 2011, I will double check this as I would prefer to use this airline

finnair - have been ok for me, I emailed them and they told me that you cannot book cargo flights until 14 days before you fly.

fingers crossed you find an airline as I am searching too and am heading to newcastle from heathrow

Just thought I would update this thread, as we are currently in the process of sending our dogs back to the UK.

We had a little hiccup regards timings,

it turns out you need to start the process (if going back to the uk anyway) about 4 months in advance and not 4.

The reason for this is you need to :

a) get the microchip inserted first

then get the rabies injection - you need to wait 30 days before you get the blood sample taken

c) once the 30 days has passed, then you can get the blood sample taken. We are at this stage and have sent the sample to an EU approved lab inthe uk on Thursday.

d) once the sample is ok'd the 3 month wait prior to entering the uk starts the date the blood sample was drawn.

I have also been enquiring about import fees into the UK, and I have since found out that yes, you do pay import fees.

Once our dogs arrive at heathrow they are taken to the animal recpetion centre. HM Customs then do their checks and we have been told that for both of our dogs the total will be around 400 gbp. so might be worth noting this.

tapeworm treatment also needs done now between 24-120 hours before entering the uk and recoded on an annex 2 certifice, which will be verified by the appropriate department in thailand ...this i am yet to find out

hope this helps anyone in a similar position

we had also had flights booked for june so receieved the email saying our flights we cancelled too. did you contact air asia, or shoudl i wait for them to contact me.

the problem i have is i am in chiang mai, so i booked 3 flights to get back to the uk. ie CM > BKK then BKK to KL and finally KL to gatwick.

I guess they wont refund the first 2 flights i had? I booked them all to match up so its a bit of a pain in the butt!

oh...and just to add another thing to my list of things to do, Air Asia have just informed me my flight has been canceled to the UK ..... great! Suppose this means I will now fly with my dogs, as I was going to send them on a cargo flight alone, and I go on a cheapy flight to keep costs down. Typical!

BTW. Does anyone know if the UK charge import fees for the dogs going in?

Hi there,

seems we have alot of pets going to the UK in the summer! Any reputable vet can give your dogs the injections. The microchip alos (but make sure it is a UK/ EU approved chip - see http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/ for more iinfo.)

Also check the link, as when the blood sample is taken for rabies it must go to an approved lab - there is one in Japan. Be carefull of companies offering to do this for you it should only cost about 50 GBP max according to defra (double check that but Im sure thats what they told me) some companies/ vets tried to rip me off and told me it would cost 20k THB per dog - it does not.

As for airlines, I spent days trying to sort this out. Any snub nosed dog is not permitted on the following airlines for long haul flights:

Air France, British Airways, Malaysian Airlines, Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways ... basically most of them

It frustrating as I actually used Thai Airways to fly my dogs from Phuket to Chiang Mai, and they were decent, but when I enquired recently about using them again in June when we go home, they said no. Maybe I just go them on a bad / unhelpful day so it may be worth trying them again.

I have confirmation from airlines - Finnair that they will take snub nosed breeds. KLM do but I have information from one of their agents that they will also be imposing a ban on carrying snub nosed dogs. She did not know when exactly.

Finnair, go BKK via helsinki then to london heathrow - this is an approved route and airline. They said to me that someone must be waiting to collect the dogs when they land (after they get cleared from the heathrow animal recpetion centre) I have a quote for 21k THB for both dogs, but the guy there told me I could not book the flight untill 14 days before.... this makes me nervous as doesnt leave room for error but hey ho

Now I spoke to defra, and they said if i struggled with to find a direct flight from thailand, on an approved airline (see the site for their list) the dogs could go on any airline such as Air Berlin (who are not approved) to Dusseldorf, and then go on an approved airline from the EU from there such as Flybe to Manchester.

Remeber pets can only enter the UK via air to one of three airports - Gatwick, Heathrow or Manchester.

Also, you need to get an export certificate from the office in bangkok airport 2 days before you leave. Now this is a pain in the butt as we are in Chaing Mai. Unless we go on a connecting flight, which we cant as thai airways wont take the dogs, from CM you can get it from there. so it looks like we need to go to BKK 2 days before and stay in a hotel with the dogs so we get this certificate..... im still researching this so double check this point

You also need a vet to confirm they have had tapeworm treatment, again check defras site, as I cant remember of the top of my head

so...... if all the injections/ blood tests/ paperwork, route into the uk are in line with the UK regulations and the dogs are booked on a flight that will accept their breed, it will be worth it and best of all no quarantine! woohoo. Unless you or I forget something

I already booked my own flight last month to the UK with Air Asia, however, they do not carry pets

The rules for getting the dogs into the UK are changing next year, which is fine and understood - however dogs going into the UK must be on a DEFRA approved airline, so that narrows the choices of airlines for the dogs down, also many airlines who are DEFRA approved do not permit my sepcifc breed of dog to fly. such as BA, Singapore, Malaysian, Air France, Emirates and so on.

I have managed to work with a relocation agent for KLM, who is an approved airline and will carry my dogs BUT they are speculating a rule change sometime next year to also forbid taking my type of dog onboard hence the whole reason for me figuring out a backup plan.

I called DEFRA in the UK, and they suggested, the dogs go on an air berlin flight (yes its non approved) but they will be permited to enter Germany and then we put them on an approved flight as cargo (another UK regulation) to the UK from the EU. yes its complicated.

Now I would fly on air berlin and myself, but I already booked my flight with Air Asia, who we all know do not refund you if you cancel your flight.

So in a nutshell:

if KLM do not change their rules re: snub nosed dogs, its fine they will take them, and I need no assistance

If they do change the rules, then I either find an individual to escort the dogs, I keep my AA flight, and get a flight over to Germany in time to meet the dogs and pick them up there myself.

OR I cancel my Air Asia Flight loose the money and book a last minute flight with Air Berlin and go myself with the dogs- which I would of course do, but I thought I would put the feelers out for anyone already going on a flight around this time. Which there does not seem to be as of yet.

I appreciate it is a long shot like I said at the start but I have heard of people escorting pets hence I brought it up in the 1st place, and again this is a last resort Im simply trying to cover all situations and have a back up plan

thanks

Just so happens that I have no intention of stuffing my dogs full of illegal substances. Also the dogs will get examined with myself or my partner present at Bangkok airport by a vet there, and I should have said that one of us would of course be present at the airport to place the dogs on the flight.

I have heard of many people accompanying pets for expats, and it is not uncommon for animal rescue charities here to ask help from the public to accompany dogs for international adoptions - hence why I asked. It is of course a last resort as a back up plan incase the airline we want to send them as unaccompanied cargo changes their policy (they are snub nosed dogs and many airlines will not carry them)

I see you point about carrying bags for strangers, but yes I would help someone transport their pets home if I met them (which I would make sure I do)

we booked our flights with air asia, but changed to the UK site rather than using the Thailand one that usually defaults on my laptop. I then paid using my Halifax debit card.

if anyone is flying to another location in Germany, but with Air Berlin still and would be willing to help that could work also.

I know its a bit of a long shot, but is anyone travelling on an Air Berlin flight in June 2012? specifically to Dusseldorf?

The reason I ask is I need to send my 2 dogs to Germany where I will collect them and then take them into the UK myself. I need someone to fly with them from BKK to Dusseldorf, and the dogs would be checked in and flew over as excess baggage. I of course would pay the entire costs for the dogs - so I just wondered if anyone already has any plans to fly this route around the first week in June.

Thanks

she quoted me 500 bt for a micro chip, and a whopping 10,000bt for each of my dogs blood tests, injections etc (obviously she is ripping me off so I need to go back and tell her its more than 50% less than than that!)

Not sure what the 10k stands for but ....

FACTS:

drawing blood and made into serum: 300 baht

sending by EMS to a registered lab in Belgium: 990 baht

costs of registered lab in Belgium for serological Rabies testing paid by either bank transfer or visa card: 50 euro. (Approx 2,100 baht)

Total per animal: approx. 3390 baht

Good luck with getting your money back, in case you paid that fee.

phew ...I didnt pay her anything, as I just popped into enquire, I had a feeling it was not right, but good job we are doing our research as she would have made a nice little profit there!