CBR250R

PP ive put CB286 so people dont get confused with the 250 models - maybe it hasnt worked. I know Honda claims it has 300cc in its advertising , and thats maybe confusing too. It isnt. Its closer to a 275 engine and i think a CB 275 sticker on the bike would be more suited. Most 250,s are about 249.6cc but that sticker would look silly !.

I'm surprised by the backlash I've read online concerning Honda calling the CBR300R a "300" when it only has 286cc. I've never seen so many people shocked and indignant over a naming strategy like this before. It's the most ridiculously stupid thing I've read online in a long time. Yet even more surprising is that Honda named the CBR500R a "500" when it only has 471cc. Ironically - in terms of percentages - calling a bike with 471cc a "500" (471/500 = 94%) is even MORE extreme than calling a bike with 286cc a "300" (286/300 = 95%) - yet these same stupid people aren't even smart enough to notice the same issue with the CBR500R.

Is there any place in Thailand to order forged aluminum wheels for the 2011 CBR150R?

Thanks,

Mike

Looking at this

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/kawasaki-ninja-300r/ktm-duke-390-vs-kawasaki-ninja-300-shootout/

The Ninja 300 seems the better bike

Although I would like the suspension & brakes & weight of the KTM with the Ninja engine

The reviewer really seemed to like the Ninja 300 right from the start. I do too. I was at our local dealership with a friend and both of us came close to buying two at the same time - for a bit of a discount. However, I'm still undecided. One issue is weight. The Ninja 300 is a relative "pig" in terms of weight. Almost 60lbs heavier than the 390. I know Kawasaki could have done better here. Yet - I suspect the Ninja 300 to be much smoother than the 390 Duke - something many would feel is important. Still - after the reviewer suggested that both bikes achieve essentially the same fuel economy - I stopped reading at that point. From everything I've read on both bikes - the 390 Duke has been turning in significantly better fuel economy figures in virtually all riding conditions. Perhaps it was just lazy writing on the part of the reviewer. But it's hard not to assume that some bias (latent?) was in play here. In a area where the Duke 390 should have won hands down - it was essentially judged a tie. I think they could have spent more time providing evidence to back up their claim. I think a better comparison would involve the RC390 and the Ninja 300 anyway - and am looking forward to reading some other comparison reviews of these bikes.

Here are the links that didn't render in my previous message.

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/10/18/manufacturers/honda/2014-honda-cbr300r-specs-revealed/

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/2011-honda-cbr250r-review-90193.html

I just completed a 4000KM camping/touring trip on my 2011 CBR150R in late June. Here is the trip report and a few random photos.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901903

Mike

Mike, we have great wilderness here in Thailand too and you can get winter in neighboring countries like Laos etc if you want to.

If you come here one day, just infirm us so we recommend you some nice routes and bike rentals besides talking these over some couple of beers.

Cheers!

Thanks for the invite. And beers. It's hard for me to turn down some libations after a fun ride.

If you ever ride across Canada - contact me and I'll take you on some scenic rides around Thunder Bay. You can even climb the Sleeping Giant seen in the photos!!

Mike

pic of my bike

I think that's my all-time favourite colour for the CBR150R.

Mike

Mike cool post. Thanks for sending some cold breeze to us experiencing right now the hottest season in Thailand! It is a pity that you are not living in thailand as i follow your posts and as you are a low cc admirer, you feel perfectly at home here. Why not moving here?

I would love to visit Thailand - and probably will in the near future. But I have a great job here that I love, make lots of money doing it, and have essentially 5 months off from April until early September. And I love the wilderness and lakes here too. And I love winter as well - just lamenting how spring seems to be taking its sweet time this year. I would love to ride in Thailand too. The photos of the countryside and the scenic, twisty roads are stunning.

Mike

Went for a ride yesterday on my 2011 CBR150R. First ride with the Thai CBR150R engine in my 2011 CBR125R chassis. I'd been waiting since October 2012 to take this thing out. The temp display on my car said 8C. Good enough for me.

Headed out on my usual run along Lakeshore Drive out to Wild Goose Beach. The bike felt great. Noticeably more power across the rev range compared to the CBR125R. And the sound is more throaty than its little brother too. It sounds great. Good thing it's relatively smooth when you wind it out. The road into Wild Goose was snow covered in places.

You can see the remnants of our recent winter tale here. The snow is now melting fast (finally), but we got dumped on several times toward the end of the season. It certainly doesn't look like good riding weather. But at no time was I ever cold. After a couple of hours - I was still cozy in my gear. The photo below is of the beach parking lot.

And here is the Sleeping Giant and umm....the beach. You can see a section of an ice-racing track to the left.

I like comparing the same photo at different times of year. The contrast of seasons is pretty remarkable. The photo below was taken in July 2012. If you look closely, you can see people swimming in the cool waters of Lake Superior below. Hard to image this scene from the photo above.

From there I continued along Lakeshore and then took the Trans-Canada back to Thunder Bay so I could test the highway capability of the 150R. Overall - it did fine. However, I was facing a pretty severe headwind and found myself frequently dropping it from 6th (7800 rpm @ 100km/hr) to 5th (9000 rpm @100km/hr) in order to continue riding at my 100km/hr (GPS) goal. After taking some time to peruse the useful online Gearing Commander site, I think I might go with one less tooth on the countershaft sprocket like I did with my 2009 CBR150R. This will put me at 8400 rpm in 6th @ 100km/hr - right near the engine's torque peak at 8500 rpm. My older 2009 125R with this 150R engine ran similar lower gearing, and I think I like the extra jump the lower gearing gives me in the city, and I'm more satisfied with the way it works on the highway too.

I also stopped at the Terry Fox Lookout too for a quick break and a few more photos.

Here's a plaque that describes the significance of Terry's journey.

Here is another gratuitous shot of the 150R (the wolf) in 125R (sheep's)clothing...

From there I visited the Bluffs overlooking the Current River for yet another view of the Giant. I didn't expect to see so many others enjoying the views and milder temps.....while pensively sucking back on some thinly rolled, sweet smelling...ummm... cigarettes.

I thought I'd stop by Hillcrest Park as well to take yet another shot of the Sleeping Giant. On the way there while waiting at a stop, a young guy drove by in a pickup and with the window rolled down yelled what sounded like "Nice Mike!" but I think it was "Nice bike!" Either way - I think the colours look pretty striking.

Here is another contrasting shot taken in June from a similar spot. You can barely see the outline of the Giant in the background.

I took one more photo before heading toward Oliver Road and onto the expressway. I wanted to stretch the 150Rs legs a bit.

Mike

If it comes with the WR250R engine and a light-weight YZF-R125-like chassis, and in this colour - I'm so in....

Mike

WR250X vs Ninja, just for curiosity...

Skip to the 2min mark for the 1st run...

Yeah - I've watched that video previously. Based on power to weight ratio - the result is as you'd expect. However, over a longer distance the Ninja 250R would certainly catch up to and pass the WR250X, as the former it is quite a bit more aerodynamic and has a higher top speed. Still, kudos to the WR250X. Yamaha - please use this engine! It is a gem!!!

Mike

If they use wr250 engine than it should be a cool bike but i dont think so as they want sell it for cheap to compete with the cbr and ninjette and wr250 is more than 5k in usa.

I agree. However, if they build this bike in Thailand and offer it as a "world bike" as Honda has done with the CBR250R, they should, like Honda, realize considerable cost efficiencies in doing so. I am still holding out hope.....

From all magazine reports I've read online (for what it's worth) it appears that Yamaha might use their YZF-R125 chassis and WR250R single-cylinder engine in the design of the YZF-R250. If this holds out to be true - this would be a very interesting bike in terms of power to weight ratio.

I have a WR250R and the engine is brilliant. The WR250R has character. Below 7000 rpm it feels like any other 250cc
dual-sport. But between 7000-11,500RPM it turns into a mean, snarling, race bike - pulling very hard for a 250cc, single-cylinder dual-sport. So much fun. Yet it still retains all the characteristics you desire in a small, lightweight, reliable, and economical, great-handling bike.

The WR250R engine puts out almost 28 rear-wheel stock hp (see WR250X dyno link below). A full 3 more rear-wheel hp than a stock twin-cylinder 250 Ninja - yet boasts unmatched reliability (26,000 mile valve adjustment intervals!) If they could keep weight down to about 300 lbs wet, it would weigh 60-67 lbs less than the CBR250R, and boast 5-6 more hp.

This would give a YZF-R250 a theoretical power-to-weight advantage over even the Ninja 300 based on rear-wheel hp.

Ninja 300.....35hp.....384lbs....10.97lbs/hp

YZF-R250....28hp.....300lbs....10.71lbs/hp

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/quarterliter-supermoto-shootout-87985.html

Wishlist? Just make the ergonomics a little more comfortable - with a more upright seating position.

Mike

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

Don't know how this topic came up, but its interesting

I too have serious doubts that more power means more safety. The guys who claim this as a fact mostly also claim that they are experienced riders who will never make any mistake. This of course is absolutely theoretical and has nothing to do with reality. In reality the average speed of larger bikes is far above the speed of smaller bikes. And this means more risk to die.

But of course it depends on what streets you want to ride on with your bike. Here in Thailand you need a certain speed in certain conditions to ride safe. But this is not much different to other countries and for sure is never above 120kmh. So i consider a 250cc bike as safe as a 650cc bike.

My apologies - I believe I replied to the wrong posting. It was supposed to be a response to Rivalex's mention about safety and small displacement motorcycles.

Mike

Rolo Tomazi - if I didn't already have a 2011 CBR150R, I would buy your 2011 CBR150R immediately. I'm in Canada. I have a 2011 CBR250R AND a 2011 CBR150R (which is really a 2011 CBR125R with the Thai 150R engine swapped into it). Canada does not import the CBR150R. What I've discovered is that the CBR150R is so much more fun and engaging to ride than the CBR250R. I never ride my CBR250R anymore and I'm currently trying to sell it. Bigger displacement doesn't necessarily mean "more fun to ride". The CBR250R is really torquey - but feels relatively boring to ride - lacks an exciting top end.

There have been lots of inquiries here in Canada asking how one might be able to acquire the Thai 150R engine so a swap into the 125R chassis could be made. I was lucky enough to buy a used bike from Thailand and have just the engine and necessary components for the swap shipped to me. Around $2000 + shipping (CND) for the engine, throttle body, and other essentials is a fair deal when you can now buy a new CBR125R for $2299 (CND - one of the best buys currently in a new motorcycle in Canada in my opinion). It is a direct swap.

I know this doesn't help your cause - but in a perfect world you would sell the bike to a Canadian CBR125R owner, crate the engine and essentials and ship it out - then sell off all the extra parts of the bike (e.g., fuel tank, wheels, seat, fairings, etc) and probably make a profit off of it!

Mike

Right, you're not helping me much but you make my day by saying you would buy it...

People selling their Lifans for a decent price in two weeks and I don't get a call for a quality CBR - something's wrong with this picture!

Interesting that you say "bigger bikes doesn't mean more fun tom ride" - I agree, I've had 1400cc cruisers and 1000cc BMWs and found out that a light single can be more fun to ride.

A 250 Ninja can be quicker and more fun than a 650 - as long as you don't go touring.

qucker and more fun? i dont think so.......That must be some basket case 650. There is no way that would be the case unless the 650 was too much bike.

Perhaps quicker and more fun in the twisties or perhaps on a track. Not likely quicker or more fun when traveling in a straight line.

I just finished reading an article on Motorcycle-USA where the journalists tested the newest Ninjas including the Ninja 300, Ninja 600 and Ninja ZX-6R and ZX-10R. Guess which one the most experienced racers wanted to ride the most? The smallest bike. The Ninja 300. Why? See below.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/157/15730/Motorcycle-Article/Kawasaki-Ninja-Ride-Day.aspx

Quote: "Why would the most experienced riders on the track clamor for the slowest machine? Three letters – F, U, N. The lower power output brings the speed down to levels that lets the pilot concentrate on line selection, body position and momentum. One 20-minute session on a Ninja 300 will teach you more than an entire day on a ZX-10R.

Additionally the handling, despite non-adjustable suspension, is rock solid while being supremely agile. The braking performance is better than expected, although you won’t spend much time squeezing on the binders. Every bit of momentum is critical when racing a pack of Ninja 300s and you are the one being drafted. Even when matched against faster bikes, the 300 can stun you on how quickly it can lap a circuit.

So who is the Ninja 300 rider? Everybody – young, old, fat, skinny, slow or fast. You will never have so much fun on something that seems like it would be easily outpaced and outgrown. Smiles per dollar – the 2013 Kawasaki Ninja 300 is the champ every time."

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

Have to take your word for it. Ridden bikes of that ilk when i was younger, before i had my big bike license, and hated them. For me, the thrill of going fast, is completely negated if i'm feeling uncomfortable and unsafe. Perhaps small bikes have come along some in the last decade or so, but i would be surprised if they have come along quite that far.

I'm not sure of the statistics regarding risk of mortality related to motorcycle riding in Thailand. However, in the U.S. the highest risk for motorcycle mortalities include 1. A large displacement bike (>500cc) 2. Speeding 3. Not wearing a helmet. 4. Riding under the influence of alcohol.

I posted this to another forum recently in response to a motorcycle review in the U.S. the once again naively suggested that small displacement bikes are dangerous and unsafe compared to larger displacement bikes.

I decided to informally examine the research related to this issue over the past couple of days - primarily perusing National Traffic Highway Safety Administration documents and data in the U.S. Nowhere in any of the data is there any mention or any inference suggesting that small displacement motorcycles are less safe than large displacement ones. In fact - the data suggest the opposite. Large displacement bikes carry a higher risk for fatalities.

The data are rife with statistics suggesting that the danger and risk lies primarily in purchasing large displacement bikes (over 500cc) even accounting for the number of bikes sold. And the most common risk factor involved in fatal motorcycle accidents is "speeding". Not wearing a helmet and alcohol consumption are also major contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities

in the data. Furthermore, according to the data, accelerating hard at high speeds on larger displacement bikes to avoid an accident (the inability to do so on a small displacement bike puts such bikes in danger according to claims) would likely increase your risk of a fatal accident as this would fall under "speeding" in the data.

Mike

A bit small and too light, it felt like a moskito. But the best bike for little money to go fast with. I did several 600 and 700km days on them, take a highway and pin the throttle open.

Pin the throttle open and what? Get shaken to bits? Can't think of anything much more uncomfortable to do on a highway besides get run over.

You have obviously never ridden a CBR150R, the engine runs like a sewing machine at 10,000rpm. Try it out, you'll be amazed!

I've never ridden the CBR250 but I bet it vibrates more at the same speed as the litlle 150.

youve never ridden a CBR 250 but your still qualified to say it vibrates worse than a CBR150 at the same speed ?

next .........

Actually - I own both - a 2011 CBR250R and a 2011 CBR150R. At slower speeds and low RPM - from my experience - the CBR250R is smoother and exhibits less vibration. However, at anything above 8000 RPM - I find the CBR150R smoother - all the way to redline. I find the CBR250R pretty rough from 8000 RPM to 10,500 RPM (redline). It's so torquey that you hardly ever need to rev it that high though. Good thing.

Mike

Rolo Tomazi - if I didn't already have a 2011 CBR150R, I would buy your 2011 CBR150R immediately. I'm in Canada. I have a 2011 CBR250R AND a 2011 CBR150R (which is really a 2011 CBR125R with the Thai 150R engine swapped into it). Canada does not import the CBR150R. What I've discovered is that the CBR150R is so much more fun and engaging to ride than the CBR250R. I never ride my CBR250R anymore and I'm currently trying to sell it. Bigger displacement doesn't necessarily mean "more fun to ride". The CBR250R is really torquey - but feels relatively boring to ride - lacks an exciting top end.

There have been lots of inquiries here in Canada asking how one might be able to acquire the Thai 150R engine so a swap into the 125R chassis could be made. I was lucky enough to buy a used bike from Thailand and have just the engine and necessary components for the swap shipped to me. Around $2000 + shipping (CND) for the engine, throttle body, and other essentials is a fair deal when you can now buy a new CBR125R for $2299 (CND - one of the best buys currently in a new motorcycle in Canada in my opinion). It is a direct swap.

I know this doesn't help your cause - but in a perfect world you would sell the bike to a Canadian CBR125R owner, crate the engine and essentials and ship it out - then sell off all the extra parts of the bike (e.g., fuel tank, wheels, seat, fairings, etc) and probably make a profit off of it!

Mike

Not sure how many KMs per tank I get with my 2011 CBR250R. However, at a steady 60km/hr riding around in the countryside - I observed 105 mpg. Riding on the highway at around 100km/hr on one trip - unladen - the bike returned 85 mpg. And on a camping/tour across Ontario, Canada, fully loaded with gear - I netted around 81 mpg riding between 100km-104km/hr. All figures are imperial gallons. Here is the camping trip.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=812788&highlight=nanabijou

Mike

If they use the WR250R/X engine it may be ok....

I believe this engine is sort of 1/4 of the R1 engine??

Interesting none the less!

I personally would love to see Yamaha swap the WR250R/X engine into a YZR-R125 chassis and call it a YZR-R250. I have a WR250R and the engine is brilliant. The WR250R has character. Below 7000 rpm it feels like any other 250cc dual-sport. But between 7000-11,500RPM it turns into a mean, snarling, race bike - pulling very hard for a 250cc, single-cylinder dual-sport. So much fun. Yet it still retains all the characteristics many desire in a small, lightweight, reliable, and economical, great-handling bike.

The WR250R engine puts out almost 28 rear-wheel stock hp (see WR250X dyno link below). A full 3 more rear-wheel hp than the twin-cylinder

250 Ninja - yet boasts unmatched reliability (26,000 mile valve adjustment intervals!) and weighs around 300 lbs wet (about 60lbs less than

the CBR250R).

This would give a YZF-R250 a theoretical power-to-weight advantage over the Ninja 300.

Ninja 300.....35hp.....384lbs....10.97lbs/hp

YZF-R250....28hp.....300lbs....10.71lbs/hp

Quarter-Liter Supermoto Shootout -Motorcycle.com

Of course - a YZF-R250 based on the WR250R engine would be an expensive proposition for Yamaha. But......for me - I don't want yet another nice, well-balanced, friendly, all-round competent, inexpensive motorcycle-for-everyone, kind of bike - like the CBR250R.

The YZF-R125 in the U.K. is expensive. Yet - it's as if Yamaha built the bike this way: 1. Let's build the best, most exciting, modern, high tech, high

quality, reliable, 4-stroke, single-cylindered 125cc sportbike that has ever been built. 2. We know it will cost more - but so be it. We are passionate about building the "best" most exciting bike possible. Is this passion disappearing? If the YZR-R125 was available here - I'd have one already.

Granted, Yamaha would benefit from saving money on tooling costs, as the WR250R has been manufactured since 2008. They would

also benefit from economies of scale by introducing a YZF-R250 as a "world bike" and selling them across many markets. Production costs could be saved by building it in Thailand (i.e., CBR250R) or India (i.e., KTM Duke 390) too.

I’m older now, and have much more disposable income. I actually WANT to pay MORE money for a motorcycle. Rather than throwing away $5000 on something that seems uninspired (but affordable) – I want to spend $2000 more on something that makes me feel awed by a manufacturer's engineering and technological prowess. I would like to see a 250cc single from Yamaha that costs MORE than the CBR250R - where you actually get more with the bike (e.g., more power, lighter weight, higher quality components - more passion). Just like what Yamaha did with the WR250R. The WR250R is clearly a "better" bike than the CRF250L in terms of power, suspension quality, and weight. However, the CRF250L appears to be the "better" bike in terms of value. The question is - would there be a market for a WR250R based YZF-R250 if it cost more than the CBR250R - yet offered more?

Wishlist? Just make the ergonomics a little more comfortable - with a more upright seating position.

Mike

I loved my 2009 CBR150R (now 2011 CBR150R after having installed the 150R engine in my 2011 CBR125R chassis). Here is a recent write-up I posted to a CBR125R forum explaining my love of the CBR150R over the CBR250R.

"Geastman - I really like my CBR250R too. I still think it's a great bike. Yet most think I'm "whacked" for putting it up for sale. It still makes me smile widely when I ride it - and I'm often left wondering afterwards - "Will I later regret selling this?". It is that good. If I had never ridden a CBR125R previously - I never would have known what I had been missing. I think the CBR125R has had some kind of Lorenzian "imprinting" effect on me to the point where I've found myself completely and enduringly - bonded with the bike - unable to part with it.

I too purchased the CBR250R because I thought it would address some small issues I had with the CBR125R - like twice as much power for cruising and overtaking at 100km/hr on the highway, and a better, more up-to-date chassis. Many can relate to the frustration of fighting a head-wind while trying to maintain 100km/hr on the highway (with the CBR125R). And the CBR250R certainly addressed these issues. But I noticed after a while that the "benefits" weren't without some drawbacks. The CBR250R weighs about 80lbs more than my 2009 CBR125R. So it lost a bit of the flickability I loved with the old bike. The CBR250R was less engaging overall to ride too. There was less sense of urgency when revving it. It lacked a bit of character in this way compared to the CBR125R. I didn't have to tuck-in onto the tank with the CBR250R. Or plan my passes strategically. I grew to embrace these qualities in the CBR125R and didn't realize how much I'd miss them when I "moved up" and how much these qualities were an essential part of the riding experience for me. I missed the high-strung "I feel like I'm Rossi when traveling at 80km/hr" effect that the CBR125R delivered. I think much of the connection with the 125 involves exactly what you mention about "screaming" the bike. That line speaks volumes for me.

And now that I have a 2011 CBR150R (I'm supposed to pick up my 150cc swapped bike from the dealer tomorrow) - I anticipate having the best of both worlds. The bike screams like the CBR125R - and is even smoother at high RPM so you want to spin it up there even more. It even boasts an increase in redline of 500 RPM (11,500 RPM) so it can sing a little higher and pass off the GP bike persona even better. And it seems like it makes its 6 extra horsepower over the CBR125R from about 8000 to 10,500 RPM so it feels and sounds angry at this RPM - and pulls great - like it's imitating a Honda S2000 beyond it's twin-cam V-tec crossover. The CBR150R has character! Granted - it doesn't accelerate as quickly as the CBR250R, nor does it overtake vehicles at highway speeds as easily - but when you're riding it - the sounds it makes do a pretty good job of trying to convince you it's faster. And it does accelerate noticably faster than the CBR125R. On my Wakami Lake trip last summer I cruised comfortably at a true 100km/hr. In a stong headwind - I just dropped it down to 5th and maintained the same pace - while sitting up and fully loaded with gear. I even had to slow down for the 650 V-Strom riders I was riding with! (They didn't want to exceed 96km/hr). And the new 2011+ chassis does it for me too. It feels more substantial than the older generation - with a level of solidity I find really appealing. It feels much like the CBR250R in every way - just shrunk down a bit - with the bike weighing about 60 lbs less! And I tend to like the looks of the 2011 CBR125R over the 2011 CBR250R too."

Mike

CBR250R, i agree with you. But you are a nitpicker

Who really believes videos on youtube? Or talking about top speeds in a bike forum? Some people will tell the craziest things about how fast _their_ bikes are. And they will fight for it because they believe it. Many people confuse top speed with "the highest speed they ever reached on a nearly flat piece of road". But that is not what the term "top speed of a bike" usually means. The real top speed should be reproduceable at any time. And for this it neeeds a clearly defined test environment.

I wrote this a few days before and just copy it here to make my thoughts a bit clearer :

>>>

Is there a "real top speed"? Doesn't top speed depend on a lot of things, even on the same, totally stock bike? Size and weight of the rider. Clothes he is wearing. Fully tucked in or "normal" riding position. Tire pressure. Wind of course. And maybe even the weather, humid or dry, air pressure maybe. I don't know, it doesn't interest me very much. But most top speeds i hear from the owners are very "optimistic" imo. I only believe what i read on my real GPS, a Garmin 60CSx, not a dubious smartphone app.

<<<

And the less power a bike has, the more the difference is in what people measure as "their personal top speed". Don't want to start a silly fight about top speed of the Ninjette. Is it really important if the top speed is 150kmh or 170kmh? Who is wrong, who is right? Imo nobody

If you've been around for a while you know that I'm not Kawasaki's biggest fan. I do appreciate veracity however and can assure you that the posting I made earlier is entirely true.

A couple of other points of reference. That run was done with a backpack on as it was the return from a trip up Goat Mountain and down to Mae Sot and back. I was wrapped around the bike as best I could. I have approximately a 40" chest and a helmet that a Yorkie could take a nap in. And that's not getting on about my weight which has less to do with top speed than the drag my body creates.

Also for consideration is the fact that sitting bolt upright (that is pegs in the valley between the heels and forefoot of my boots and back straight) I always hit 133 km/h with the throttle pinned on a flat stretch. Cocking the elbows down so my body is angled more gives me another 10 or so.

I believe you. This isn't a case of me questioning the veracity of your claim. With a modified bike (snorkel mod and Power Commander mapping) it is completely tenable that the ningette could break 100 mph. But it comes back to my original point that I've never seen or read any objective evidence of a "completely stock" Ninja 250R breaking 100 mph. Perhaps there are some legitimate GPS verified examples out there. If there are - I haven't encountered them - but I've been eagerly searching.....

All of my bikes (2009 WR250R, 2009 CBR125R, 2011 CBR125R, 2011 CBR250R) are off 10% each. Granted, this doesn't mean all bikes are off by that amount. I purchased a speedohealer for each of them and have corrected the speedo to match the GPS speeds. In fact, I was a guinea pig for 12 O'clock Labs - they were kind enough to create a healer for my 2011+ CBR125R after I provided them with some wiring information. It is now available on their site, even though the U.S. does not import the CBR125R. Perhaps the bikes in LOS are different than the N. American bikes. And I wasn't referring to big or small bikes - just bikes in general. The American scooter review site "Just Gotta Scoot" suggests that many scooters show greater than 10% speedo exaggeration. The reviewer keeps track of such speedo/GPS inconsistencies in all the bikes he tests. The most recent review I clicked on suggests the same. See below:

http://www.justgotta...citycom2013.htm

Interestingly, he also tested a 2005 Ninja 250 and indicates in his review that the speedo is optimistic (close to 10%) verified by GPS. See below. Funny, he also tested the top speed and achieved a figure of 93 mph (GPS verified). I've read the the pre-2008 version of the Ninja 250R is supposed to have more top end too. Granted - there are many factors to consider here when testing top speed.

http://www.justgotta...erchallenge.htm

Remember, I was talking about a stock bike. Snorkel removal and Power Commander additions don't count. Did you import your bike - I didn't know that the 2008 Thai Ninja 250 was fuel-injected - which would be a prerequisite for a Power Commander. I thought it was carbed? And you mention that the speed was verified. How did you verify it? GPS? Some other method? Was it slightly downhill? Some tailwind?

So, with the exception of your CBR250R, none of your bikes have actually been sold through a dealer in LOS? I.E., the comments about the bikes being sold in Thailand and your personal experience from an apparent foreign country don't necessarily match?

With the exception of USA and a few select far east countries the 2008+ Ninja 250 has been FI. The bike was GPS (Garmin Zumo) verified along this stretch of road: https://maps.google....sp=0&sz=12&z=10

You of course can zoom in and check elevation changes, but it was held at >160 for some 8 minutes thus negating any questions about going downhill or not as it held at least that speed the entire time.

Finally a PC does little on the top end (was doing even less as the stock exhaust was there) but definitely helps out the mid-range.

Actually - I believe my 2011 CBR125 has virtually identical cluster, digital layout, and electronics compared to the 2011 CBR150R sold in LOS. The bikes appear to be identical. The motor mounts are exactly the same. And when the CBR150R engine was shipped over to me - I was also given the entire cluster. As mentioned above, My new 2011 CBR125R is in the shop right now getting fitted with the Thai CBR150R engine. The speedo on my CBR125R was 10% off compared to my GPS. Once again - there could be regional differences at play here. For instance, the U.S. CBR250Rs apparently have an extremely accurate speedo. Online reports suggest that it matches GPS readings perfectly. However, our Canadian CBR250R speedos appear to be 10% optimistic in their readings.

CBR250R, i agree with you. But you are a nitpicker

Who really believes videos on youtube? Or talking about top speeds in a bike forum? Some people will tell the craziest things about how fast _their_ bikes are. And they will fight for it because they believe it. Many people confuse top speed with "the highest speed they ever reached on a nearly flat piece of road". But that is not what the term "top speed of a bike" usually means. The real top speed should be reproduceable at any time. And for this it neeeds a clearly defined test environment.

I wrote this a few days before and just copy it here to make my thoughts a bit clearer :

>>>

Is there a "real top speed"? Doesn't top speed depend on a lot of things, even on the same, totally stock bike? Size and weight of the rider. Clothes he is wearing. Fully tucked in or "normal" riding position. Tire pressure. Wind of course. And maybe even the weather, humid or dry, air pressure maybe. I don't know, it doesn't interest me very much. But most top speeds i hear from the owners are very "optimistic" imo. I only believe what i read on my real GPS, a Garmin 60CSx, not a dubious smartphone app.

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And the less power a bike has, the more the difference is in what people measure as "their personal top speed". Don't want to start a silly fight about top speed of the Ninjette. Is it really important if the top speed is 150kmh or 170kmh? Who is wrong, who is right? Imo nobody

Thanks wantan. To be honest, I really don't care what the top speed of a bike is. I guess I was just pointing out that any top speed claims that use the speedo for verification are at risk of being inaccurate. And as I mentioned previously (which also buttresses what you are saying) - there are many factors to consider. And I love the Ninja 250R. I would like to sample the new Ninja 300. I'm planning on selling my CBR250R this spring. It's too easy to ride - more power than I need - I just don't find it as engaging as my CBR125R (with Thai 2011 CBR150R engine swap). My current 2011 CBR125R is in the shop right now getting the 150R transplanted from the 2009 CBR. Not trying to fight about the top speed - hope it didn't come across that way - only debating the evidenced used to support a top speed claim.