Charlie Cabana

2+2=5

Ministry of Truth

I added the check valve 2 days ago. So far OK! When I cut out the section of pipe for the CV, the water continued to flow(small, slow stream) from the  main even though the valve was shut. Valve is defective. So it seems that was the problem. The mains pressure affected my system (as opposed to temp) even though the valve was shut. I was a bit worried that the bond of the CV to the pipe might not be good because of the water flow, but I loaded on the PVC cement, and it's OK-no leaks. 

Thank you every one.

Cheers, Charlie.

Thank you.

No automatic water devices. 

This morning I did the following with valves at meter and tank closed; and did not turn on any faucets.

From 1:14:59AM to 2:35:37, the intervals steadily decreased from 11:04 (min,sec) to 5:06. I then closed the valve on the 'in pipe'. The pump cycled on after about five minutes and ran continuously until I shut it off. It could not get water from the tank. Had there been a check valve it would have probably cycled on/off with the same intervals as before. So it's still possible that the  leak is in the pump or in the in pipe. Then I opened the valve.

From 2:42:57 until 2:52:34, the intervals decreased from 5:20 to 4:47. I then closed the valve on the 'out pipe'. At 3:26:00( app 33 minutes) it still had not cycled on. So now we know that the leak is not in the pump or the in pipe. It's somewhere beyond the valve in the out pipe.

At 3:29AM, I opened the valve on the out pipe. It did not cycle on immediately. At 3:31:47, it cycled on and from then until 3:40:46 the intervals were 4:25 and 4:24. 

I then used some water. 

At 3:58:57 I closed the valve leading into the house. The point at which the pipe goes underground. It cycled on at 4:03:09 (4:12 minute interval) and from then the next three intervals were 4:12,4:12, and 4:07. At 4:11:22 I opened the house valve and from then until 4:31:54, the intervals decreased from 4:11 to 4:03.

I then used water. So the leak in the pipe underground. 

To summarize: It seems like there is no leak in the pump, the in pipe, the out pipe up to the valve, or in the pipe underground. Therefore it seems like the leak would be in pipe work between the 4 valves (tank, out pipe, house, and meter). There is not a lot of pipe here and it's all quite visible. BIG MYSTERY!

The only thing that I think I might do now is to add a check valve at the red 'x' on my drawing and then open the tank and meter valves. Perhaps that might do something? 

Cheers everybody.

Thank you for your reply. If the valve on the meter is closed, then no. 3 would also happen-correct? 

If there's a leak in the pipe work, then how would you explain the difference in time intervals between cycling on/off that's seems to be temperature related?

No solar heater.

Maybe the check valve in the Hitachi pump is defective (the pump cycles off/on with the hitachi spring [4,5 cm], a 5.5 cm spring, and no spring), and therefore adding a check valve on the in pipe to the pump would solve the problem.

My son has been visiting-so busy. I have the check valve, but have not installed it yet. I have my doubts that it will be the answer, because when I'm using the pump/tank, I turn off the valve at the meter and also the valve leading into the tank. The valves that I have closed have done the work of the check valve already-correct?

Thank you everyone for your help. Cheers, Charlie.

Ok. Thank you.

pump.pdf

I sketched the system, took it to an internet cafe, they scanned it onto a pdf file, but I can't attach the pdf file here. Suggestions? 

Thank you. Will take a day or two. No scanner at home.

I finished the house over a year ago and added the pump and tank a couple of months ago. My set up was the only way I could do it. It works well except for this mystery. If the electricity is off, I can still use the village water. Also the pump system is independent of the village water and if I'm using the village water, the water does not pass through the pump. The pump only works if I'm using that system. 

Thank you for your input.

'mains pressure'? Is that the pressure in the village water? When I use the pump I turn off the village water. The last photo is my temporary arrangement. I brought the pump wire into my house so I can turn it off and on inside. I can live with this, but I would like to solve the problem. 

I do not think there are any leaks, because the pattern here is that the pump does not cycle on and off during the warmer parts of the day. I have a recently constructed one-room 27 square meter home. Very simple.

Some more detail. Yesterday I got up at 3AM and turned on the pump. I turn it off at night so it does not wake me up. From 3:17:30 until 5:49:02, I did not use any water. From 3:17:30 until 5:49:02 the interval progressively decreased from 5:16 to 4:12. After 9AM until about 5PM, the pump worked normally without cycling on. It was a hot, sunny day. A Hitachi service man came yesterday and could offer no solution. After he left, when the pump started cycling on every 5 minutes at 5PM, I did the following tests. First I turned off the valve on the in pipe. The pump cycled on after 5 minutes. So it seems like another check valve would not do anything. Also the Hitachi check valve operates with a spring. There is no difference-spring or no spring. I've tried both ways. Then I turned off the valve on the out pipe and the pump did not cycle on for 20 minutes. When I opened the valve the pump resumed cyclying on every 5 minutes.

Thank you.

I have a Hitachi water pump. The type with a round base that is the pressure tank. My pump cycles on when I'm not using water, and the frequency of the cycling on depends on the temperature. If it's clear and sunny, it will not cycle on from about 10 AM to midnight. Then it will start cycling on every 5 minutes or so. Then from about 7 AM to 10 AM, every interval between cycling on will be progressively longer. Your thoughts?