Ratt Thai

36 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Probably because you can't read.

 

They repealed the old police order from 1979: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

Replaced by the new police order (the one which you are reading)

 

It isn't a new regulation, it's merely quoting Thai immigration act section 37.2.

You can find one translation of it in this police order, another translation in the link which you posted in your previous post and the original Thai version here: https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=58b4f72454b2f90a80136447

I suggest reading the Thai version, then you don't have to rely on potentially wrongful translations.

 

Did you see any? I didn't. So i guess there are no exemptions.

 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2522/A/096/1.PDF

TM27 is on page 5

 

A few months ago it actually was there, see my post #19 here:

 

I would say you should find a new lawyer who is able to read laws.

Dear Jackdd, Thanks for the links, they do clarify..

So i can say "i stand corrected" and thank you for that.

PS: even a good lawyer would need precise questions to understand what he's been asked about.
Oh well, just another day at the office...

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

I am referring to the regulation that this new proposal states.

I have read this new regulation and the immigration act.

There is no provison in the immigration act to amend or repeal section 37. However there is in section 37 provisions to provide details of who is exempt from complying with sub sections (3) and (4) of section 37. The requirement to report to the local police.

 

The reason why section 2.1 and the 90 day reports are included is because this is a regulation concerning notification.

Clearly: if i write "content of section 37 is repealed" would that be different then if i would write section 37 is repealed ?

Carefull: who have to comply with 2.1 from the new regulation ?

Strange: First you mentioned 2 regulations; a: the new one, b: the former one...

Regulation a i have... where is the former one ? The one that was repealed instead of content of section 37 ?

Links please

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I think you should pay more attention when reading.

The new police order clearly says: "By virtue of Section 37 [...] issues the regulation prescribing notification [...]"

It doesn't say anything about repealing content from the immigration act. The police general is not in the position to change laws. He can only change regulations which extend the law and which the law allows him to. In this case he changed the notification requirements (updated forms and making some people exempt).

Point 2.1 in the police order is 37(2) in the law. Explanation for what?

 

TM27 exists at least since 1979 and afaik has not been used so far.

Why do i feel as an idiot teacher , trying to explain how to read to ignorant students ?
You can read where it say's "repeal" don't you ? And what does it repeal ? And the repealed is replaced by what ?
And did you read the first sections of the immigration act on who can appoint who to do what ?
And this new regulation, specific point 2.1, what does it means ? who does to comply ?
Is there any exemption ? from 2.1 i mean ...

And where is the previous regulation as been mentioned by another poster ?

If the TM 27 exists since 1979, why there is nowhere information to find about it ? Could you provide any link please ?

Documents from Immigration: ( no TM27 there )

https://immigrationbangkok.com/thailand-immigration-forms/

PS; my lawyers say that it looks that TM27 is going to be the new rule to enforce the old confusing TM28, so what does your office say ?
They want to crack down on house owners for the TM30 and they now want to use the TM27 since the TM30 does not apply for the aliens per se.
Immigration had to back down on appeals and complaints for the TM28 and for the TM30, so the outcome is obvious...
 

49 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

One is a regulation  the other is an Act.

The regulation states that it is deriving its power from the act ( sec 37), and the regulation is repealing a former regulation.

 

Please provide a link to find the source of your claim....
What former regulation are you referring to ?

Please read the fore mentioned act and regulation carefully and pay attention to the confusing details...

3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Section 37 of the immigration act is not repealed.

This is a regulation issued by the commisioner under powers granted in section 37 of Imm Act

I think you should read more in depth...
Here is the translated version of the Immigration act 1979, see section 37
http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

And then compare with the new regulation as per immigration:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

REMARK: READ point 2.1 and try to find an explanation.... 
If you reside at another place as initial indicated on your TM6 form ( at arrival )

So, any tourist, or any person that stay's at another adress then known to immigration computer/ TM6 card has to do a TM27 at immigration, within 24 Hrs

Yes, we might discuss about the word "residence" and we might agree on who of us is right in the interpretation of the word, but who knows the intend from the IO in your case or mine when he interpret the new rule ?

For me, it seems that the new rule is either more stringent or more conflicting with itself...

Or: they where confused themselves with the enforcement of the TM28 and now created another cashcow called TM27 which they want to enforce with more action ?

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Jackdd > We are in agreement that basically nothing changed.

But what is the procedure then now when you move/relocate to a different address and need to notify IO?

The TM-27 title reads < see below >, so to me that looks like the form to use.

 

Dear Jackdd and Peter Denis,

The only things that changed in the new regulations are as follows:
1: content from the immigration act section 37 is repealed
2: Content from the immigration act section 37 is replaced by:
https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

To comply with the new regulations there are only 2 documents to follow:
TM27 : Form for aliens to notify their change of adress if different from that stated on their arrival card.

Now that is the tricky part of the new regulation coz: Art 2,1 where as nobody is exempt for filing a TM27 for adress change and this within 24 hrs upon arrival + clearly stated to do so at immigration.

The TM47 is still are again there for the 90 day notification.

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Jackdd > We are in agreement that basically nothing changed.

But what is the procedure then now when you move/relocate to a different address and need to notify IO?

The TM-27 title reads < see below >, so to me that looks like the form to use.

 

Dear Jackdd and Peter Denis,

The only things that changed in the new regulations are as follows:
1: content from the immigration act section 37 is repealed
2: Content from the immigration act section 37 is replaced by:
https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5e468147cf638702b11f9cb9

To comply with the new regulations there are only 2 documents to follow:
TM27 : Form for aliens to notify their change of adress if different from that stated on their arrival card.

Now that is the tricky part of the new regulation coz: Art 2,1 where as nobody is exempt states:

9 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

Just more confusing news.... Tomorrow will bring a yet new and different update.... Then you still have the uneven enforcement and understanding on the individual IO to deal with

Indeed confusing as some people forget to read that 2.1 is still active and confirmed.
Must be a mistake ?
 

It looks that as of now, each alien have to report his whereabouts, within 24 hrs, each time if he stay's at another place then as known / registered at immigration. 

Or am i the only one who reads this ?

On 1/5/2020 at 1:33 PM, Isaan Alan said:

I see some comments about the need for your name to be in Thai. I am married and the marriage was in Thailand so I have a Thai translation of my name already so that should do the job?

 

The yellow book also needs the names from your parents translated in Thai... ( place of birth, occupation, all that kind information... ) 
Kind of translation of your birth certificate will do the trick ( did for me )
They enter all your information in the computer system, not everything is printed in the yellow book dough.

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Holder still has to do an extension every year, cost about 1900 baht I think.

Not true, only if you don't leave the country after 1 year continious stay, otherwise you get a new 1 year stamp on each entry/re-entry during your entire duration of your membership.

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Certain activities were exempt before that decree.

 

In 2015 the following activities were announced as exempt (not work).

• Attending a meeting, a discussion, or a seminar;
• Attending an exhibition or a trade show;
• Attending a business trip or a business discussion;
• Attending a special or academic lecture;
• Attending a training and a technical seminar;
• Purchasing goods in a trade show; and
• Attending a Board of Directors meeting of one’s own company.

yup and repealed by 
In 2017 the Emergency Decree on Non-Thais’ Working Management Emergency Decree, (2017) (“Decree No. 1”) repealed the Alien Workers Act (2008). Decree No. 1, however, incorporated much of the repealed Alien Workers Act’s provisions and kept in force most of the regulations issued under it.

8 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

A lot can change in six months.

 

I was just advised by TE  five days ago that TE can't do my 90 report without a TM30 receipt, and that I must go to CW to obtain said receipt and do the 90 day report myself.

 

Oh, and BTW, be prepared to pay an 800 Baht fine, they said.

 

When I asked about the possibility of getting a TE rep to assist me, this was the response:

 

 

Note: I wasn't expecting TE to do the TM30 for me - I was just hoping an "EPL" could be present to make sure I didn't get gamed.

 

Not feeling very "elite" after this exchange.

ever considered to try online 90 day reporting yourself ?
No need to bring your passport to TE and picking it up again, just stay comfy on your keyboard...

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do?cmd=acceptTerm

13 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Those “activities” are not considered work. So whatever you are doing is not work!

Interestingly, the definition of “working” under the Decree No. 1 remained as broad as in the Act and was defined as “the use of physical strength or knowledge for engaging in an occupation or a job with or without an intention to obtain wages or any other benefit”. Decree No. 2 now redefines “work” as “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the law governing foreigners’ business operation.”

I think this leans towards your statement...

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Those “activities” are not considered work. So whatever you are doing is not work!

I tend to agree with you in that opinion, but it was considered work or WP needed until:

On 27 March 2018 the Emergency Decree on Non-Thais’ Working Management (No.2) (2018) (“Decree No. 2”) was issued. Decree No. 2 amended Decree No. 1.

39 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A foreigner needs a work permit to work legally in Thailand.

I am getting confused from the first statement you made (as quoted) and now your latest... 
So, which statement is the true one ?

Anyhow, i stick with mine and keep doing fine... 

I am here under second rule and quite confident that i know what i am talking about... 

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;
 

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You can apply for a work permit with a PE visa, but it wouldn’t be issued until you get a Non B and the PE visa is cancelled.

 

There are no circumstances where you can legally work with a PE visa.

From:https://duensingkippen.com/thailandbusinesslawblog/?p=266

The new Labor act:

On 27 March 2018 the Emergency Decree on Non-Thais’ Working Management (No.2) (2018) (“Decree No. 2”) was issued. Decree No. 2 amended Decree No. 1.

Decree No. 1 prohibits people who are not Thai citizens from engaging in specific occupations. Permission to do such work will not be granted. Other occupations are open to non-Thais; however, the work performed by anyone who is not a Thai citizen is strictly limited to the activities and conditions to conduct such provided in the permission granted. However,Decree No. 2 now provides for exceptions to the mandatory work permit application requirement as well as other revisions of note. The most significant changes under the Decree No. 2 are as follows:

A. The following non-Thais can carry out certain activities in Thailand without a work permit:

(1) a non-Thai who comes to Thailand on a short-term periodic basis to: hold or to attend a meeting, lecture, seminar, training, exhibition of art or culture, or sports competition; provide an opinion; inspect work of others; or, any other activities, as prescribed by the Council of Ministers.

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;

(3) a non-Thai legal representative (e.g. director) of an alien juristic person that is licensed to operate business under the Foreign Business Act (1999);

1 hour ago, 4evermaat said:

I will need to confirm if the application specifically has an acknowledgment that you are not allowed to work (similar to Thai visa applications when you go to a consulate/embassy).

There is no mention "prohibited employment" or any of such kind mentioned/stamped on this visa sticker. Thailand Elite states that you can't legally apply for a work permit... 

Then again, sometimes you are exempt of a work permit and you CAN legally work with a PE Visa

48 minutes ago, 4evermaat said:

Edit:  it is a PE visa apparently.     Does this stand for Privileged Entry?

Google translated: pay special attention to art: 1

As far as i can find, this is the latest version ?
Then it means ? 

Thailand Elite is a Privileged Entry Visa period.

Announcement of the Ministry of Interior

Subject: Special permission for certain classes of aliens to enter the Kingdom

Which is expedient to allow foreigners who receive a Thailand Privilege Card to enter the Kingdom of Thailand as a special case

By virtue of Article 17 of the Immigration Act, 1979, the Minister of Interior With the approval of the Cabinet on 12 November 2012, hereby issues the announcement as follows:

Article 1: Foreigners who have received a Thailand Privilege Card from the date this announcement comes into force in Thailand Under the conditions and exempted, it is not necessary to comply with the Immigration Act 1979 in the case as specified in this announcement.

Article 2 Persons under Article 1 shall have the right to receive a Privilege Entry Visa from an embassy in a foreign country. Or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or from the Office of Immigration For use for five years with an unlimited number of times throughout the membership card, with the exception of visa fees.

Article 3 When the persons under Article 1 enter the Kingdom The immigration official shall check and authorize to stay in the Kingdom for one year every time. Traveling to the Kingdom on an unlimited number of times

Article 4 Permission to temporarily stay After the expiration of the permit under Article 3, the immigration authority shall have the power to grant permission to continue for one year at a time. By submitting an application in accordance with the form and paying fees as specified in the Ministerial Regulations

Article 5 [1] This notification shall come into force from the day following the date of its publication in the Government Gazette.

Announced on 22 February B.E. 2556

Charupong Rueangsuwan

Minister of the Interior

12 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The point was that a TM.30 report is required even for TE members. Whether or not it’s complied with is another matter.

36 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

but that the Elite Visa holder must still do 90 day reports, TM30 reports,

The TM30 report is not a burden on the shoulders of the TE visa holder, and it was not a requirement on my last 90 day reporting, as it was 6 months ago.

Also, the TM28 is no longer required for a TE visa holder...

So, arrive in Thailand with a new TM6 card suffice... the rest is upto the system... ( i am pretty sure that i can't do online reporting with an adres that is not registered with my last TM6 unless i do a TM28 officially, but who knows ? )

On 11/21/2019 at 5:00 PM, richard_smith237 said:

A foreigner cannot get a 5 year Thai Drivers license on a Thai Elite Visa because it is not a Non-Immigrant Visa. 

Strangely but the last entry stamp in my pasport say's "Non PE" as visa type... 

17 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Quote

but that the Elite Visa holder must still do 90 day reports, TM30 reports,

Yes, yes.

Yes for the 90 day's , NO for the TM30 ( landlord, house owner, etc yes, but not the visa holder if he is not landlord, house owner... ) 
Even after my last re-entry, no TM30 was filed and my 90 day report went thru online without...

8 minutes ago, RotBenz8888 said:

 

Did they explain how they came up with that figure?

very easy... 40 k thb/ month for 3 months.... 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes if you change your address.

 

Then I am the lucky one, all of above on the pamflet... including retired and married...

Since my visa is TE, i guess i am exempt of TM28 then ?

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Section 37 has nothing to do with TM30 reporting. The TM30 reporting is under section 38.

A TM28 form is used for section 37. You can basically ignore the TM28 reporting unless you change your address.

got this on the website from immigration:

https://immigration.go.th/content/notifyresidence?click=1

Meaning that retiree's and married's do have to do?