papakapbaan

Of course, we know. The problem is : what don't you give your opinion ? You're in the front line of visas situation if I may say since many years...

I don't think this has come out about to have less foreigners in Thailand but to get it "right."

By bringing this mistake up with what the Immigration Act allows, many more foreigners will be able to stay in Thailand as they are a father with a Thai child than foreign dependents of a foreigner. Of course I understand they can make the criteria 65,000 Baht + per month of Thai income with the requirement of showing a work permit. Not to many foreign fathers will qualify. It will be interesting to see if it will be money in the bank, foreign or local income or Thai income only for the criteria.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

"many more foreigners will be able to stay in Thailand as they are a father with a Thai child than foreign dependents of a foreigner"

Every expatriate should feel concerned (at least interested) by what is "happening" now to foreign spouses of retirees and unmarried foreign parents of Thai children.

A few remarks...

1) Will they ever edict new regulations to take into account unmarried foreign parents of Thai children???

We keep hearing about "imminent changes" for quite some time now.

2) Will they ever, indeed, discontinue/revoke yearly extensions of stay for foreign spouses of retirees?

I believe that 1 and 2 are/will be very TELLING MOMENTS.

HOW will spouses of retirees and unmarried parents of Thai children be "accepted/rejected"?

It may help many expatriates see the true colors of the Thai Immigration system!

Stay tuned everybody.

BTW. About unmaried foreign parents.

They may indeed come up with whatever criteria they want to grant annual "extensions of stay".

But it's unlikely to be 65K Thai income. Such a father/mother would qualify on "WP/Business" only/simply.

To ask for/hope for the same sets of rules as applied to spouses of Thai citizens: 40K monthly income (Thai or foreign) : is probably too... logical???

Or... Could the criteria used to grant 1 year extension to foreign parents of FOREIGN STUDENTS be applied??

500K in a Thai bank.

Again, probably too... logical!

Note: If I manage to get my Thai daughter the belgian nationality then I will seriously consider revoking/cancelling her Thai nationality in order to get her a NON-ED visa that will allow me, in turn, to support her/live with her here!

Currently *impossible* under the new regulations as an ummaried parent age below 50!

Can you be forgiven for thinking "Silly Thais!" (with their silly rules) when confronted with such a situation?

Just to note: even if they "fix" this one we are talking about here: you can bet we are not finished with contradictory/messy Immigration rules :-(

actually, that means no need to leave every 90 days

Correct. As the parent of a student here on an extended ED visa, you qualify to extend your visa too (which means no visa runs). Requirement: 500k baht in the bank for 3-months.

(See the Police Order found in one of the pinned messages at the top of this sub-forum.)

(Sorry, further off-topic maybe. But another - somewhat related - family issue) (Related: cf. 50 YEARS "paradigm" ;-)

And as the parent of a Thai student (in an official school only?), would you qualify to extend your visa too if you have 500k baht in the bank for 3 months??

I would then seriously consider revoking/cancelling the Thai nationality of my daughter in order to get her a NON-ED visa that will allow me, in turn, to support her/live with her here!

Currently *impossible* under the new regulations as a solo parent age below 50!

(I am the unmarried parent of a Thai "student" now 3.5 years old, same age as "Pattaya Parent"'s child).

papakapbaan, you seem to do more somersaults than a Chinese acrobat, you say one thing and in your next post deny it and do a complete 360. You did say that 7/17 was for a thai supporting a non-Thai parent, the Thai does not need a visa. You did not answer the point about a foreign child is in a different section and still insist that 7/17 covers this. You have posted on numerous occassions that there is no provision for any kind of support in the new regulations but your last post was peppered with the word 'support'.

As I said, i have axe to grind but, I think, unless you have definitive proof that you should not be spreading mis-information.That is my last word on the subject and I will leave this forum to those who think that they are always right even when they are wrong. I now go into self-imposed exile.

Communication may not always be clear on a forum.

But nowhere did I contradict myself or said anything contradictory.

And yes, there is still "support".

A Thai supporting a Farang.

And a Farang supporting another Farang (dependant visa).

But not a Farang supporting a Thai. NO MORE.

In case there was any confusion:

My "Sorry - Not at all!" above is in reply to your:

"Papakapbaan's quote in bold looks as if his interpretation of the law means that the Thai who is supporting an over 50 parent needs a visa!"

I never said such a thing. From the beginning I say that 7.17 concerns both FOREIGN PARENTS and FOREIGN CHILDREN. Thai logically are nowhere as applicants for a visa (a yearly extension actually)!

(Yes, Samran, I believe you are right about the possibility to support your father for a yearly extension of stay. Good news for you? ;-0)

Thai children can support Farang parents above 50. (!)"

The left hand column is for who can apply for a visa and the middle column states conditions Papakapbaan's quote in bold looks as if his interpretation of the law means that the Thai who is supporting an over 50 parent needs a visa!

Sorry - Not at all!

An over 50 Farang can be supported by his/her Thai child. Period. The Farang needs the visa. Not the Thai, of course not.

It's a revolutionary concept for you GPT maybe (for me it is) but in the eyes of the Immigration: The supporter here is THAI.

It is not because you are the "supporter" that you are the one in need of a visa.

In fact with the new rules, you can be in need of a visa for BEING SUPPORTED.

(Just like it uses to be the case often for Thai "tourists" in the West...)

IMHO, the problem with 7.17 (5) of Police Order 206/2006 is that from a WESTERN perpective, it COMPLETELY defies common sense.

(In Thailand children support parents. For most people coming from a Welfare state, parents support children).

So people are unable to read its contents.

(I realize we are looking at a translation and I am sure the Thai text is more clear BTW)

---

1) FIRST COLUMN "Reason of Necessity" (SIC):

Here are listed the situations (or persons concerned if your prefer).

THIS COLUMN IS ONLY FOREIGNERS of course. (All this is only for FOREIGNERS).

Father, Mother, Husband, Wife, Child (and adopted child).

Of course CHILD means FOREIGN child as well. (From previous marriage or adopted)

2) NOW SECOND COLUMN: "Consideration Criterions" (SIC again...)

Here are listed the conditions (in simple terms)

I pass (1), (2) and (3)

(4) "In case of Child"

In case of: The Immigration officer has to consider granting annual extension to a foreign child, in other words: CHILD MUST BE BELOW 21. (Text says "not older than 20")

(5) "In case of Father or Mother" (seems they can not say Parent in Thai)

In case of: The Immigration officer has to consider granting annual extension to a foreign parent, in other words: PARENT MUST BE ABOVE 49. (Text says "not younger than 50").

(I am sadly sure).

BTW! I visited 2 Immigration offices recently (as I already posted here) and it is the same story: NO WAY JOSE! No 7.17 (5) for you!

One of the two Immigration offices is indeed (cf.Sunbelt) ready to give me A 60 DAY EXTENSION (7.23) , provided I can show 400,000 in a Thai Bank and some "certifying letter" from Amphur that, from what I understood, is supposed to certify the Birth Certificate.

"As for the civil war suggestions - maybe - but I don't really see that happening in a large way. This society is too patronistic - and the poor people are too subserviant and deferential to Phooyai - khap-poom. If anything I suspect it would be more like an insurgency by educated marxist types - and would be put down."

I think that you are right in your assessment, 'thaigene 2'.

Just staying well clear of Bangkok, in places where "there is rice in the fields and fish in the water", should be enough to ensure that one is merely a spectator.

Not really reassuring.

(I note you are writing from rural Udon Thani...)

Anyway: a civil war does not necessarily have to involve a lot of civilians.

Precisely because Thailand is a patronistic society with "subservent" poor, it's quite possible that military factions will be allowed to fight for power without anybody in the civil society standing up to say "enough of this mess"!

(BTW Completely unthinkable of in the West! That's where we have at least one major difference in political developments, no?!)

In other words...

Some middle class citizens in Bangkok were developed enough politically to stay stop to Thaksin's cronyism and conflicts of interests.

But there will apparently be no middle classes to stand up against the patronistic society of the old clique (military/bureaucracy).

When the military/bureaucracy and its patronistic interests will be back in full force: maybe not just fighting the new order of Thaksin, but possibly fighting amongst themselves too!

We will be without any guarantee that a civil society will say "we have had enough!"

I personally believe that there is only ONE major political "force" against a civil war (of military factions) in Thailand... (Have to stop writing here).

The lesson to be learnt from the sudden change of rules in October, as I see it, is that if you have family, plan to live long-term in Thailand and qualify for annual extensions under the current rules but have not yet applied, go and do this application now.

Maestro is very right.

If you are lucky to still fall in any category eligible for annual extension of stay, do your extension RIGHT NOW.

Besides the obvious further increases to financial requirements (they WILL increase and probably quick), you can imagine anything and *everything*.

Ex: There is a geriatric paradigm here to favour the "over 50" - but not every country in the world, far from that, has visa for retirees.

It may be a good idea to realize/keep in mind that long term residents are simply NOT welcome here.

-Spouses

-Parents

-Small and medium entrerprises

-Possibly even retirees in the future.

Basically you are not welcome.

Welcome here are:

-Tourists (for as long as they spend like tourists)

-Experts (for as long as they are needed)

-Investors (of the BOI level only - and they don't need to live here: cf. No more "investor visa").

-Retirees, only to some extend.

Do your extension RIGHT NOW also because you have very good chances to be "grandfathered" in the rules later when they raise the bar again and you don't meet a new criteria.

(You must give them credit when deserved. They have a lot of "grandfathering" clauses - apparently applied)

So... It's perfecty legal... until it's not anymore.

Obvious statement maybe. But look at what happened to 30 day visa-free entries and look at the odds of it happening with tourist visas and then with Non-Immigrant visas... Only a matter of time, actually.

I wonder........as far as I understand the restriction on the visa free entry was so that immigration can control and regulate who comes and goes, should they so wish. By forcing long term stayers to apply for visas they know who is in Thailand. They have denied there is any intention to restrict entry by visa. I do agree that with nearby consulates setting their own rules and limiting the issue of some visas does give cause for concern but it's been inconsistant on that front long before 1st October.

Yes, better control (the offical version) together with more income from the "sale" of more visas (the optimistic view).

Contradicted by the bigger picture of an insecure country (its ruling classes) where foreigners are not welcome as long term residents.

(Interestingly, you yourself raise doubts....... hehehe)

Alas! No, No, No, Jing Jing.

SUNBELT is right and the text, precisely if you read the ENTIRE SECTION, as you say, is actually clear (although I agree with you: it defies common sense).

7.17 (4) concerns foreign CHILDREN.

The annual extension of stay if granted to FOREIGN children

Foreign child of foreigners must be BELOW 20.

7.17 (5) concerns foreign PARENTS.

As a parent, you must be OVER 50. Period.

Yes, 7.17 (5) pertains to parents, indeed, being supported not doing the supporting. Alas!

There is no more child support provision. (support of a THAI child)

In other words:

-Thai children can support Farang parents above 50. (!)

-Foreign parents can support FOREIGN children below 20. (But foreign parents must be here on another basis: 7.17 (4) is a dependant visa extension for a FOREIGN child).

Yes, however strange this may sound, the clause (4) about "in case of CHILD" concerns a FOREIGN child.

(Strange because they mix foreign parents with foreign children in the same 7.17 rules. But logical in a "THAI <-> ALIEN" logic).

---> Do your mind (I'm telling myself). This is Thailand. They used to recognize the status of foreign parent of a Thai national before 01/10/2006. After this date, not anymore if the parent is "younger than 50 years old".

------

Maestro:

The ”... (OR) other papers issued by the related official organization or government agencies.” are indeed mentinoed in Police Order 606/2006 and are, as I read, a sub-category of possible documents required to prove Thai Nationality.

But anyway it's typical to leave doors open for additional documents/criteria in any text of Thai Immigration regulations. Again here.

So: What I meant in my post above is: this documents PSCHEF's wife had to sign is not specifically required, named if you prefer, anywhere in 606/2006.

Yes, it's well written.

But it does not really say much more than: politically, Thailand is quite immature and nobody knows where the country is heading!

I don't believe for one second that Thaksin "believed in the righteousness of his cause" ("remake Thailand into a more egalitarian society"").

He was an archetypical populist elected (indeed...) by a politically immature population who transited from feudalism to modernity in maybe less than half a century.

Now the old clique (military, bureaucracy) is back and the new order of Thaksin is discredited (or more exactly: revealed for what it was: self-serving populism).

But I don't believe for one second that the military and bureaucracy have the interest of the people at heart any more than Thaksin.

To expatriates here, this article reminds that a second coup is possible - and that nothing less than civil war (plain and simple) looms in Thailand! :-(

Gee, just where do you get the information that permanent stay on 'back to back' multiple entry visa's are an abuse of the system? From my reading of the regulations it is perfectly legal and acceptable to leave every 90 days and then return and stay another 90 days irespective of how long the break is in between staying in another country, be it one day or one hundred days................. Whats your problem? Sounds like Chicken Little.......... the sky is falling....................

You are right. The sky is not falling.

A lot of doors are being closed, simply.

It is perfectly fine (legal) to stay permanently on continuous 90 day permits to stay (multiple entry Non-Imm. visa).

Just like it WAS perfectly fine (and legal) to stay permanently on 30 day visa-free entries before 10/2006.

So... It's perfecty legal... until it's not anymore.

Obvious statement maybe. But look at what happened to 30 day visa-free entries and look at the odds of it happening with tourist visas and then with Non-Immigrant visas... Only a matter of time, actually.

Permanent stay = annual extension in country.

The rest is basically the same abuse of the system (legal ways but nonetheless abuse).

(Let me add: Tolerated and even, I believe, encouraged to some extend: they keep you revolving around, gravitating to them as long as they accept it).

Also: It's all a question of perspective. With family here (or business) you normally feel you need/want more/better than perpetual 90 day permits to stay.

(Sorry, another obvious remark?).

(Note: I am following advises here to stay clear from discussion involving NON-Immigrant O visas and child support issues for a while :-0 This seems to be a perfect alternative subject...)

A very interesting question.

IMHO, it's a "status" thing. Glass and small simply look better than plastic and big.

While they will only sell small bottles of beers in most upmarket places, "mixers" anywhere are only available in small bottles. (Yes, for some people it can mean A LOT of bottles on the table...)

Water -even sparkling- is probably too cheap anyway to try and hit the market with cheaper bigger plastic bottles.

But meanwhile your are inconvenienced (opening many bottles every day at home as an healthy drinker? Or unable to re-order fast enough at the bar/restaurant?)

(Will it work?? Will it be posted?? ;-0)

If you did not extend your visa in the last 12 months, the Embassy / Consulate will possibly conclude that you are avoiding the financial obligations that attach to support visa's.

Sorry but...

-Anyway it's NOT a support visa. No more "support" visa since 10/2006 (Police Order 606/2006)

I know/undertand why everybody still say "support" visa but it's NOT anymore a support visa.

(The family must have an income of 40,000/m, not necessarily the farang husband).

And you can be sure the people who wrote Police Order 606/2006 were determined to get rid of all "support visas" of all sorts BTW. (You can still support FARANG children below 20, that's all you can support!!! And you have to be here on another (strong) basis of course)

-Annual extensions of stay are of course more difficult to receive than a visa. "Financial obligations" are just one of the requirements. Many people easily qualify for a NON-O visa and don't qualify for annual extensions. Financial means not the problem.

YOU were warned . BYE.

This post above was posted yesterday evening.

Your "warning" was posted today afternoon (and no PM).

What did I do anyway? Please explain. You quoted me a saying "I rant". But actually no. All my recents posts were almost purely technical/factual discussions.

I am not alone in my situation. I think it's natural to stand up and complain in our circumstances. And yet, I am just basically doing my mind and exchange advises/suggestions here.

So that's it? Banishment?

even though i have lived in Thailand for over 7 years , i never found this web-site till October last year and it was only then i found out about the new visa rules, i have been married about 5 years and have 3 1/2 year old daughter, and always used to go to Penang and get a 1 year non-O multi entry visa based on marriage, anyway this year i went to Pattaya immigration first (about 15 October) and they refused me for not having the 40k a month requirement (plenty money in bank but would not accept that) but they did suggest i went to BKK, which i did the next day with Wife and daughter in tow and the same refusal, althouh i must admit the staff in BKK were freindly and helpful, they continually said there was no way they could give me a 1 year visa, even with a dependant wife and daughter. The woman in BKK seemed genuinely apologetic and gave me 7 days said go back to England and you will have no problem, so thats what i did. Obviously i would have prefered not to have had to go back to England and don't see why i had to, buts thats the only way i could do it. Not being 50 or anywhere close to it, i suppose unless they rethink their laws that is what i will have to continue to do.

Yes everybody (concerned).

Please do your mind.

PSCHEF is ABOVE 50.

It is the ONLY reason why he could get his annual extension based on 7.17 (5).

I wish he said it himself in his post BTW. (But I understand some people want to be "positive", fine ;-0)

Meanwhile, we umarried parents below 50 HAVE A SERIOUS ISSUE to deal with.

And also married parents with financial means but no regular income, below 50, like Buriramboy above. (Who can not apply as anything, neither as spouse (40 K/m) nor parent (above 50)! In other words)

COBBER: 7.17 (5) is for PARENTS NOT SPOUSE (does not hurt to be spouse as well of course)

-Applicant must be over 50 years of age.

YES MUST BE. ABOVE FOURTY NINE exactly. ("Not younger than 50", they say)

-Married to a Thai.

NO, you do NOT need to be married to a Thai. Sure.

-Shown as a parent on thai childs birth certificate.

YES, your name must be on BC.

-You also need: Tabian Baan with name of child on it.

-And NOTE: for 7.17 (5) you do NOT need to prove financial means.

However, the document they asked PSCHEF's wife to sign is not required in 606/2006 Police Order. So of course you never know what else they may ask you to show/sign; what other criteria you must meet.

But this document could have been signed by PSCHEF's "partner"/GF he she was the mother, I am sure.

No need to be married.

MUST BE ABOVE FOURTY NINE, though.

so howcome can you live in LOS with no income?

Kindly: it's a bit boring.

There are actually MANY people below 50 who can live in Thailand without salary or pension.

I am just one of these.

I do not have salary but I have income. More or less regular. From property + bank interests (+/- linked to stocks I don't manage BTW. It's in the hands of bankers and I get a %).

(I could not have a decent life in Belgium with this money BTW.+/- 60K/m)

Your child was born outside of wedlock......no problem.

I presume that your name is on the childs birth certificate.

First step..get a Thai passport.

Then apply for Belgian citizenship.

Get a Belgian passport.

Then get the mothers permission to take the child to Belgium.

-I presume that your name is on the childs birth certificate.

DONE

-First step..get a Thai passport.

DONE

-Then apply for Belgian citizenship.

Get a Belgian passport.

WALL.

Not without wife's agreement.

NO WAY.

-Then get the mothers permission to take the child to Belgium.

(Would not be problem at all. Although she loves her daughter, she is even ready to let her live with me in Belgium, should it be impossible for her (mother) to get a long term visa to stay in Belgium).

I think you have to understand (as I slowly do only now, I admit) that all this situation (in Belgium, not Thailand) is caused by regulations there to protect the interests of legal spouses.

(In this case the rights of my wife against the rights of a child "born outside of wedlock").

Pumper was right to say that "no matter what the country / society, married to 1 & family with another is problematic".

But it remains: if you are below 50: you are not recognized as a father in Thailand!

(Since 01/10/2006)

Personally, it is the only reason why I started this whole thread here (and a few others...)

In Belgium, you are not recognized without the approval of your wife. It's a bit traditionalist (but also has very practical implications) but it makes MUCH more sense.

I still don't get it. You're not recognised as a father... so what? I am also not the father of my niece and I could take my niece to Belgium? Is your daughter officially a child without father? In this case, isn't it sufficient that the mother gives her permission? Any person can take a Thai child on a holiday to Belgium if the parents agree. Or did the law change since last year?

I don't know, Kris. Honestly.

Maybe her age (2.5, very young)

Maybe the fact she is indeed "officially a child without father".

The embassy said very clearly that the mother permission is NOT sufficient.

(Yes, they would only need HER signature, not mine. But in this particular case, they also told me the request would be refused by the Foreign Affairs if the mother did not accompany).

And anyway you may not be the father of yur niece, indeed. But it is your niece.

As far as Belgium is concerned, I am NOTHING in this story.

My daughter would board the plane with a complete stranger. The mother's agreement is not enough.

Justice is incidental to law and order.~ J. Edgar Hoover

i remember from a college psych class my (goofy!) teacher saying anyone who thought life was fair was psychotic.

every time i feel wronged i try to remember that

you are focused on the short term .. (today's walk)

what are your long term options

1. seek legal counsel for divorce from 1st .. & fight through it (or continue to whine about it.)

you MUST RESOLVE the 1st issue.

2. after the divorce/resolution, legalize your current family situation

Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet! ~ Groucho Marx

no matter what the country / society, married to 1 & family with another is problematic.

i assume you knew the Thai rules for some time & chose to ignore .. you obviously knew you had a problem with the 1st lass & ignored

the lesson for the rest of us is to not get into a similar situation or if / when we do .. resolve the problem not ignore.

all the current 'visa whiners' have known for months that had better act ..

many visa runners took action & are now ok

A few valid points, obviously.

But I don't think you can simply, decently, call me unconcerned/careless.

Well. Here is the case in a nutshell:

1) An almost impossible divorce and a child with another woman.

2) I know that a complicate procedure (child custody) and 400,000 in the bank will give me yearly extensions of stay.

I know that I have a strong fall-back option when visas become more hard to get.

3) Meanwhile, I decide to concentrate on my life - with a very young child.

I decide against the child custody (given the situation, it was far from a sure bet).

I decide against divorce - with a powerful Thai woman.

4) I am taken by surprise on 01/10/2006! Like MANY others.

I learn that parents BELOW 50 years old do not qualify as parents anymore!

No. I never expected that life (and people and laws) would be fair in Thailand.

But I am still baffled by this one! (I admit).

(NOTE: In the VERY same time they manage to make visas (multiple entry) much harder to get :-0)

---

Now, moving forward... Indeed.

Even if I managed to divorce my wife (and I am now seriously working on it with Belgian procedures and laws) and marry my partner:

I have income but I don't have salary.

My parner has income but (much) below 40 K.

So: not clear at all.

What do you say? (Kindly, please).

...so all you need to stay here forever in thailand is a jobv and a wage, not a wife.

Since 10/2006: absolutely true.

And, I will add: not a child.

(I have both :-( Both are "useless" visa-wise...)

You can get yearly extension of stay on the basis of employment with a 50,000/m salary.

If your wife is not working, you need 40,000/m income for extension of stay on the basis of marriage.

(And there are indications that income, for farang, only means some sort of SALARY)

"Trying not to get kicked out" is the title of the post -- and the only advise here is (and can only be) TOURIST visa......

How can anybody plan his life on the basis of indefinite border runs and visa runs??

I know. Many did exactly this for years and decades before 10/2006.

Some were "lazy", maybe.

But many had no other choice (below 50, no work, no Thai spouse, no Thai child).

Since 01/10/2006, those who have no other choice are clearly more numerous! (below 50, no work, WITH or without Thai spouse or/and Thai child).

But NOTE. Since 10/2006, a rich Thai wife can be useful visa-wise.

So: If you are below 50, get a job or get a rich wife (or at least one who is paying taxes on an income of min. 40,000/m)

And for sure DON'T have children before marriage!

(The Thai immigration does not want to know about your income)

I took my 4 years old niece with a tourist visa to Belgium with a written permission of the parents and a copy of their passports and identity cards. The parents of my niece didn't join me on the trip to Belgium.

On paper, you are right (I have the documents with the requirements/conditions).

But...

I would ask to talk to Belgian person in embassy, not the the girls at the desk.

She patiently explained the siuation and added that they did not even need my signature on anything.

Since I am not recognized as a parent, since the child is not recognized. Logical indeed...

From the legal perspective: I guess I look like a pervert trying to bring a 2.5 years old with me in the plane.

(Sorry, it's the image I have in mind, how the explanations made me feel)

(BTW The girl at the desk was very helpful. As she was in many occasions. She had an argument once with my wife (snobish hi-so) and it seems she will always remember her... She always remembers me).

BUT: in order to get a visa for a Thai person you need somebody as a guarantee. This person should have a certain minimum income in Belgium. The guarantee paper can be obtained in the city hall. Do you have family that would like to act as a guarantee? Or can you get such a paper yourself on your next visit to Belgium?

I have family who would guarantee.

Before thinking about moving to Belgium you've to make sure your new partner agrees. She can expect to have a pretty hard life in Belgium and it will be hard for her to adapt here and find a job.

Besides, we have to consider the free-fall of our standard of living without the income from my rented property and without her salary (and of course, the costs of living!)

I would already start the divorce procedure in Thailand. You already have waited too long with starting this procedure.

Well. I can not even locate my wife :-( Anyway, we ended our relationship in very bad terms. She managed to throw me into a Thai police station jail (for one night) on absolutely no basis (Absolute fabrication of domestic violence. I never hit a woman in my entire life. Simply, I forcefully refused her entry into my newly rented apartment (without any violence, really, only grabbed her arms). Let me add for the record that I was living there alone and without any "visitor" - ever)

(I was released on a 20,000 baht bail. At the end of the "saga", a Thai court fined me... 2,000 baht. I had to pay 10,000+ in lawyer's fees and various "donations").

One thing seems to be peculiar to the Thai consulate in Penang, they are the first one to make it more difficult.

I believe Penang is OK, actually.

I believe they used to be quite good for "familiy cases" prior to 10/2006.

Unfortunately, after the new rules and, in the same time, instructions sent to regional Thai embassies/consulates advising against the issuance of multiple entry visa, they no longer issue Multiple entry Non-O.

I'm afraid you will find this to be the case almost everywhere in the region.

It seems multi NON-0 are still issued in Singapore with greater scrutiny and proof of financial means (probably in the case of MARRIAGE only, not child support, note) (Still waiting for an answer to my email sent to the embassy)

Hi Kris (I assume it's your real name?)

Thanks for your suggestions.

The situation is a bit complicate.

I am living with the mother of the child and she is taking good care of her.

My problem is my impossibility (at least for now) to get a divorce from ANOTHER THAI woman.

-Without divorce (or agreement of my wife): no recogniton of the child.

-Without recognition of the child: no passport for sure and not even any "family reunion"-type of visa.

(BTW even with custody I can not aply for a family reunion type of visa, again not without the agreement of my wife)

-So we are left with tourist visa indeed.

Belgian embassy confirmed last week: I do not stand the slightest chance to receive a tourist visa for my daughter (2.5 years old) if the mother does not accompany us in Belgium.

Problem: the mother is working.

So: long (or even short) term solution through tourist visas are not simple.

But we (my family) are actually considering the scenario above (tourist visa for permanent stay in Belgium)... :-(

As you said, in Belgium they won't put my daughter in the plane back to Thailand.

But here, they may well put the father in the plane to Belgium!!

BTW:

You didn't do anything wrong and I really don't understand the lack of sympathy of some people on this forum.

I did a child out of marriage. It's a sin!

(Without any undue respect: it's clearly full of traditionalist old farts here, on TV and in Thailand).

If you did not extend your visa in the last 12 months, the Embassy / Consulate will possibly conclude that you are avoiding the financial obligations that attach to support visa's.

Sorry but...

-Anyway it's NOT a support visa. No more "support" visa since 10/2006 (Police Order 606/2006)

I know/undertand why everybody still say "support" visa but it's NOT anymore a support visa.

(The family must have an income of 40,000/m, not necessarily the farang husband).

And you can be sure the people who wrote Police Order 606/2006 were determined to get rid of all "support visas" of all sorts BTW. (You can still support FARANG children below 20, that's all you can support!!! And you have to be here on another (strong) basis of course)

-Annual extensions of stay are of course more difficult to receive than a visa. "Financial obligations" are just one of the requirements. Many people easily qualify for a NON-O visa and don't qualify for annual extensions. Financial means not the problem.

Hopefully the OP is still around...

Practical question: did they want to see a copy of wife's ID card in Singapore?

I can show:

-My daughter's Thai Birth Certificate with my name on it.

-My Belgian Marriage Certificate (Wife NOT the mother)

-My Thai bank passbook with regular money transfers received from Belgium.

(Balance above THB 400,000)

If they don't need to see wife's ID (I do not have it), then I may just use marriage certificate and bank passbook.

Since it's more important to be married on paper than to actually support your children.

BTW you can't support your children anymore anyway. Not a valid reason to be in Thailand if you're below 50 (I can't resist. I have to rant :-0)

Thanks!

Sumet Jumsai, one of Thailand's top architects, however, insists that the airport would have collapsed — corruption or not. Fifteen years ago he had fought against its location on a swamp. "Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp, and I feel everyone has got it wrong in the ongoing investigation," he said. "The bottom line is that with or without corruption the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks."

Almost everything here is still based on the feudal system/principle of "sacred Thai soil"... (collective conscience, wealth and power and discrimination).

And people built an airport on a cobra swamp?! Hahahahaha!

(But what is the story behind the acquisition of this land?? Was it the cheapest plot on offer?? Probably)

Why would it crash?

The strength is mostly cause by a combination of a weakening dollar and a strengthening yuan.

Both of those are very long term trends.

More likely, it will be 25 to the dollar. I wish it weren't so, but what could stop that might be tragic events that would be even worse.

Yes, for the long term trends: maybe.

It seems like many "specialists" who post here consider buying (more) Baht - not selling (with the above long term trends in mind)

But meanwhile: we do not need tragic events to cause a Baht devaluation.

(Might no be technically correct to speak about devalutaion, OK. Same in my view)

And sadly we all know why the possibility of tragic events is mentioned here...

But what about more silly measures from the BOT/Ministry of Finance/Thai government??

So: is it safe to keep important amounts of Baht in Thailand these days?

And, BTW... YES, (verifed today) money changers outside Thailand (at least 1 country of the West...) offer rates for Thai notes that should allow a "traveller" to make nice profits when the foreign currency received is brought into Thailand and exchanged again for THB.

Due to the -much discussed here- differential between off and onshore rates.

(All "cash in suitcase", no bank transfers involved; anyway transfers of important amounts from Thailand are not really possible, as already mentioned here)

No?

So: If one believes a devalution is possible (be it or not, technically, a governmental intervention) and one is living in Thailand with savings in Thai Baht, it really makes sense to buy foreign currency outside Thailand ASAP.

(Differential now + possible depreciation soon)

No?

Or will the Baht value keep increasing off and onshore with little chance for this government to cause any serious "devaluation"/depreciation?