fletchsmile

The date of your actual employment, i.e when you start, should be stated in your contract. That's usually the date your employment becomes effective is what usually counts.

The date you signed the offer doesn't usually matter. The date you signed the agreement and agree the terms and conditions could also be different from the date you actually start to be employed.

i.e you can accept an offer in Nov 2018. You can agree to the terms and conditions in Jan 2019. But you may not actually start work and be employed for days or even weeks after signing. 

So really for most purposes you want the start date in your contract when you agree to the terms and conditions of your employment

I wrote in "most cases", as it could depend on what you are looking at this for? What is the context?

16 hours ago, William Osborne said:

I guess 10% is not the end of the world.????.....in Europe your paying 20 to 30% and in US 15%...UK still seems to be tax free.

 

Just as long they don't start taxing capital gains...that would be a game changer.

US default is 30% for non-US residents. That's a game changer for me. 

A W8BEN and DTA can reduce that to 15% for many non-US resident countries, including me as well as Thai spouse. But that also depends on whether your broker wants to bother with the admin. As default is 30% and no reduction for Singapore residents, then several Singapore based brokers, whose main clients are of course Singaporean residents, don't want to bother.  We're in that boat.

So things like "low cost ETFs" touted on here by US residents, as if suitable for everyone, are actually expensive to non-residents if they pay divs, because of the tax regime.

Yes CGT on gains in Thailand would be a nightmare

Singapore is great for tax if non-resident. 

I think banks are now catching up with the legislation changes. I had an email from my RM at Tisco.

Electing Zero WHT is no longer an option. 

The default is now 10% WHT deduction. If you are a lower rate tax payer you will now have to claim back the WHT via your year end PND 90 income tax return.

Have you considered RMFs. Similar tax breaks. Bit more complicated and longer holding periods to age 55 or min 5 years.

You would also be able to get 500k (less any amounts paid into an employer scheme/ provident fund) @ 35% 

There's a wider choice of funds and not just limited to Thai equities/ bonds

22 hours ago, Thomas J said:

fletchsmile, just so I am clear,  If she opened an account with interactive brokers she could buy lets say an S&P 500 Index Fund just one not domiciled in the USA and not be subject to the 15% withholding tax? 

Yes. There are many S&P 500 ETfs available with different charges, domiciles etc

When buying ETFs don't just buy the cheapest one. Consider the tax implications too.

Yes, like bank accounts, financial institutions seemed to have changed the default so that tax is deducted. Think it's just part of a wider crackdown on people who dodge taxes, and to make collection more efficient.

Although the default set up of 10% WHT deduction has changed, this doesn't change the fact that I can still choose either:

1) Deduct 10% flat rate and no more to pay

2) Elect to have no WHT tax deducted and then pay tax if any at marginal rate of tax. This could be zero if income in Thailand is small.

To have no WHT deducted you will have to provide your mutual fund provider with your tax number and other documents, including completing a form to choose this option. So it is no longer the automatic default.

What this means is that the Revenue department then have your tax number correctly in the system and it is linked to any income you receive, so they can check your income from all sources that are captured by their systems. They can then check that if you have say 200k from all sources then some tax is due at your marginal rate. Much more efficient to check tax is done properly and they can check people who should be paying some tax are.

In the past, some people would ask for no WHT, and then never declare the income on tax returns. Dividends received were not effectively matched to tax numbers, and some people never even gave their tax number. So in reality some of those people had a tax liability and were just ignoring it, regardless of how much income they had, and the Revenue wasn't effective at finding them.

Now if you want to elect no WHT you have to supply your tax number

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Fletch, her options as a non USA citizen would be to open some account in Norway which is hardly tax efficient or to leave here in Thailand which is precarious.  Though the banking system looks solid now it was only a few years ago that the country had a coup.  When events like that happen, who knows what the consequences to people who have money in the banks and brokerages would be. 

The point I was making was why invest in US domiciled mutual funds and ETFs?  Why not other country domiciled mutual funds and ETFs? eg Luxembourg, Ireland, Singapore etc etc

Because of (witholding) taxes, US domiciled mutual funds or ETFs are not necessarily the best options for non-US residents.

EXample: with any broker that allows trading on multi country markets:

If she buys THA - a Thai index fund domiciled in the US the charges are I recall a ball park 0.5%. It pays a div of around 3%. She would lose 0.45% to 0.9% (30% of that div) depending on appropriate tax set up (WHT of 15% or 30%)

So effective cost is 0.95% to 1.4%

If she buys LG7 on SGX (another Thailand Index) then charges are similar ball park 0.5%. No WHT suffered. Effective cost 0.5%

The main difference is buying a product on the US NYSE or Singapore SGX as they are both Thai index funds. The US "low cost" option is poor value because of taxes

At the end of the day an index fund is an index fund if they pick the same index. So why be captured by the US tax regime. Whether you're buying MSCI World index, Thai index, EuroStox50 etc etc

I stopped trading any US domiciled funds because of tax and effective extra costs. They may look cheapest on the headline rate, but factor in the cost and for many non-US residents they are not

If you open an account with Interactive brokers, you can buy ETFs from most markets in the world, regardless of your nationality/ location etc. So why restrict to US mutual funds and ETFs and suffer more tax? They also offer mutual funds that cover most markets just not as wide a choice and not US domiciled.

This is something to consider. IB is good that they allow you to trade US markets, UK markets, EU markets, etc etc. So regardless of where you are based you can choose products domiciled throughout the world.

You've covered the main ones. There are a whole host of others though, many won't be relevant.

Investment could be an option. But would be THB 10mn+ and a fair few hoops.

If you're married to a Thai or have Thai dependents/kids, both of those are relatively easy options, and in my view the easiest solution. I've been doing marriage extension for years - you can then overlay a WP without changing your visa status if you get a job or lose your job. I would have considered the dependent route if anything happened to my wife while I was under 50.

Of course marrying/ having kids just for the sake of a visa isn't necessarily the wisest of moves LOL

Visa Code
D (Diplomatic)
F (Official)
TR (Tourist)
S (Sport)
B (Business)
IM (Investment through Ministry)
IB (Investment through BOI-Board of Investment)
TS (Transit)
C (Captain or Crew)
ED (Education)
M (Mass media of communication)
R (Religion)
RS (Research and Science)
EX (Expert)
O (Others)

21 minutes ago, timendres said:

$0.05 per share, minimum $1. Thus, 100 shares = $1. 200 shares = $1. 1000 shares = $5.

Best commissions in the business.

 

Worldwide trading.

Multiple instruments (Stocks, options, futures, bonds) all under one account.

There is no broker that competes with IB, IMO.

- Charging per share is a ridiculous and old fashioned practice. If you buy penny shares or shares with a low value that 5 cents can look ridiculous. If on the other hand you are buying Berkshire Hathaway which costs USD 000,000's per share it's very cheap.

- Modern brokerage fees should be either a flat fee or based on value of transaction. Number of shares are meaningless. If I buy 10,000 shares at $1, why should I pay more than 10 shares at $ 1,000? % or flat fee makes sense. Same value, same work etc

Flat fees are useful for high value transactions. eg UK I pay GBP 5.95 regardless of value of transaction, so negligible on GBP 100k

But if buying smaller amounts then a % can be more efficient. eg buy SGD 1,000 of SG REITs at 0.18% is only SGD 1.80

- Interactive Brokers are pretty good as you say on charges  

1) I use my bank in Singapore - Standard Chartered. The platform is crude and basic, but does the job. Not suitable for day trading where real time up to date data is required and you are spending chunks of your day on it. But fine for mid-longer term investment. The biggest advantages are:

i) it links seamlessly to my Singapore bank accounts in various currencies.

ii) I can borrow against qualifying investments at attractive rates. The borrowing facility is very useful, eg we use instead of a mortgage, large items that might come up, leverage for extra return etc. 

iii) Access to a dozen main countries, eg US, AUS, UK, EUR (Germany, Paris, Netherlands), Singapore, HK, Japan etc

You would be able to buy US ETFs via trading. Mutual funds are available in USD, EUR, SGD, GBP etc, with a variety of fund domiciles. Fund charges are a bit expensive, but again is Ok for me as i often use leverage, so the lower borrowing offsets the higher charge

2) In Thailand I use KGI. Mainly for Thai stocks, futures and options. Think they might do some overseas markets

3) I made enquiries a while back with Asia Plus in Thailand. They will open accounts also for foreigners to trade various overseas markets. Handy if a local broker is wanted. Main drawback is minimum fee on trades is around THB 3,000. Would be OK for occasional trading and convenience on larger amounts. Less so for a frequent trader. They also want higher value clients. My assets were OK, but not sure what their minimum was. I'd consider for my wife, with her being Thai and us in Thailand.

4) Interactive Brokers. I did a trial with their platform. Met my requirements. Variety of markets and currencies. Low trade charges. Borrowing facility available. Main thing I didn't like is they didn't bother responding to messages I sent for further info.  They offer a wide range of US mutual funds. Not sure whether you need a US address to access, as I wasn't interested in them. The range of non-US mutual funds is poor, which was another factor for me. 

Of these 4 Interactive Brokers might be best fit for you. You could just sign up and try it.

One question I would ask though is why US mutual funds if Thai/ Norwegian and not living in the US? This may not make sense from a tax perspective.

eg If I buy a low cost domiciled US mutual fund or ETF, then I suffer witholding tax. Depending on whether your broker will process possible reductions based on your circumstances that would result in a 15% to 30% reduction in say dividends returned.

So a div pays 3% you would lose 0.45% to 0.9% and receive only 2.55% or 2.1%. An unnecessary extra cost for non-US people.

A Thai should be able to get the reduced 15% WHT rate, but some brokers in Singapore will apply only the default rate so you end up losing 30%.

So think about why US mutual funds and tax?

Cheers

Fletch ????

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Bank will have one of their staff at the land office, they hand the money over and take the land title away with them.

Unless you are Thai or have a Thai work permit, you won't even be allowed beyond the land office reception.

You get to sign the form, "I agree no part of this property is mine or will ever be mine" at reception.

It'll be the Thai lady, the bank staff and the land office manager doing the deal.

Not true in my case. Last time, I wasn't working at the time either and didn't have a WP.

We met the bank representative and the seller outside the land office before the office opened. We read all the various paperwork together (in Thai of course), including the mortgage agreement, and mortgage charge the bank will take. My wife of course was the one signing all the paperwork as the house and loan were in her name.

We all 4 (wife, me, seller and bank rep) went into the land office. When our turns came up I went to the counter with my wife whenever she did. There are various parts to the process, eg purchase, register of mortgage charge etc, and not all parties go up for each part. But whenever she went I did. We both wanted to make sure we understood what was going on, so both wanted this. I understand the finance side better than her on the mortgage, she probably understands land/property ownership better than me. But we both saw as it as a partnership we do together as a team

My wife of course as owner and mortgagee again signed most of the paperwork. I did sign a form saying something along the lines of "the money all came from my wife's funds and I had no claim over the assets".

"Saying it will never be mine" is stretching things and poetically embellishing. 2 potential scenarios in particular I would have an interest and claim to the assets:

1) In the even my wife dies, I can be a beneficiary and receive the house according to her will. (There are Thai rules around making this permanent afterwards, which are out of scope here).

2) Also, although you sign that the money all comes from her, that is at point of acquisition. If you are contributing to the mortgage then these count as joint assets that have been acquired after marriage and you have a claim to part on divorce. You likely won't get the house on divorce of course, nor would probably want it, but it can be taken into account in agreeing assets settlements and dividing up assets.

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Government capped home loans at 95% about 5 years back.

If he's offering your wife 100% there's something crooked going on.

You have no rapport, you're a mark, and he's a conman.

That's not correct. Rules depend on a variety of things. 100% is possible, IF:

1) This is your first contract/ home

2) The amount is under THB 10 million

On top of that will be the bank's own lending criteria.

The words "Business Section and The Nation" really have never gone well together.

The Nation has always been abysmal in its reporting of business and finance, with poorly worded articles.

So I didn't bother reading the article.

Looking at my trading screen now - at almost close of the week. The Nation's abysmal record remains intact.

SET got nowhere near 1700 in the week. Instead it has fallen.

By "defending levels" - again typical of the Nation's poor English and wording, I assume they mean "support levels".

At 1634-ish now SET went thru both "defending levels" of 1640 and 1650. So it seems in selecting K-Research for the week, the Nation has done it again ????

21 hours ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

How do I find index funds? I use kasikorn to invest. What are the fee´s on these?

Where are you looking to buy from and which index:

If Thai index and focus on Thai equities

Within Thailand

- TDEX is the longest running and most liquid Thai equity ETF. Charges are around 0.4% and one of the cheapest. Can be bought thru any broker

- But there are a couple of dozen more

There's a full list of ETFs on the SET here in this screener. Most are Thai equities, but there are a few others like gold, china etc. Some are very small in size so you would have to be careful on liquidity if buying large amounts

https://www.set.or.th/set/etfscreener.do?language=en&country=US

Outside Thailand - Thai single country ETFs:

Fees are a bit higher at around 0.5% give or take, with 3 main option

- THA - iShares MSCI Thailand . USD denominated. Traded on NYSE Arca. Liquid fund with reasonable volumes. But the big disadvantage is it's US domiciled pays a dividend which is inefficient for tax for most people. The div is about 3%, so you will lose about 0.45%-0.9% (15% to 30% of that div) in witholding tax (WHT). This is because depending on your nationality, tax situation, DTAs and how well your broker process all those and W8BEN forms etc you lose 15% to 30% of any div in WHT, so represents an extra cost. This undermines its low cost option. eg as a UK or Thai national with a valid W8BEN you can take advantage of the double tax agreement and have only 15% WHT tax deducted instead of the default 30%. Various brokers don't want to bother with the admin side though so just take the default 30% and won't let you get the 15% reduced rate thru them.

- XTrackers MCSI Thailand. USD or GBP and maybe other versions available from memory. Traded on various exchanges like LSE and SGX. Less liquid. LSE is probably the best it is traded on in terms of liquidity, SGX one of the worst

- Lyxor MSCI Thailand. EUR denominated. Traded on Paris stock exchange, and possibly XETRA from memory

Cheers

Fletch ????

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

What about the check out date? 

If I report after coming back home from abroad I don't know when I'm leaving next time. There's a red *. 

Just stick in the max allowed 365 days from check-in. You do need to put something in though.

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

I applied to register my wife for the Section38 app (TM.30) via my android smartphone. I got the app using Google Play I filled out the application in English. It took about 5 weeks for them to process, but I did get my wife's username and password just a couple days ago.

Has anyone heard anything about an online way to file a TM.28?

There's no way to do TM28 online. I asked IO. I also asked if there were any plans for TM28 online or an app. They said no.

I believe the whole antiquated concept of the rules was:

1) You go in person as the alien so they can check and see you

2) For the TM30 the assumption was that it would be a loyal Thai national somewhere along the line who would confirm as a check. So the nice loyal Thai person would help verify these potentially dangerous aliens LOL

That aliens were subsequently allowed to buy their own condo, and such complications, so being both owner and alien, came with later.

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 400k  has to be in the bank for 2 months on the date you apply. There are no rules stating it has to be in the bank for any amount of time beyond that.

But some offices are wanting proof it is still being in the bank when your return to get the one year extension stamp near the end of the under consideration period. Check with your local office about it when you apply.

I confirm that at Chaeng Wattana when I did mine this year, the immigration officer specifically told me that they wanted to see the 400k proof of funds when I returned 4 weeks after the application was submitted, during that period under consideration

They checked to see, when I went back to "hear the result" and get my full one year, that my bank book had been updated to show money still in my bank account. Once completed I asked if I could now withdraw the money if I wanted they told me yes.

So BKK CW Wanted 2+1 months and checked it before issuing the final stamp

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

There is not one report that I know of where a Retirement Visa receipient or agent have been busted for Retirement Visa related business with Imm.

Immigration encourages and welcomes them.

It is way way too much money spread throughout the system.

But, do what is best for you of course.

Posts like yours always make me laugh, that start with sentences like: "there's not one ... that I know of", " I don't know anyone..." etc. ???? 

That you don't know of one is probably true. 

That they don't happen is completely wrong. Read a Thai newspaper, Bangkok Post, watch TV etc etc

https://www.legal.co.th/resources/visa-immigration-law/visa-news/thai-immigration-chief-warns-against-illegitimate-visa-services/

Personally I wouldn't touch with a barge pole any agent that offers to defraud the rules for a fee, unless I've absolutely no choice. If absolutely no choice, then I'd seriously consider why I'm here.

Just follow the rules as shown byDavid 555 in what's official. Find out what your IO office is doing and follow up. It's one thing making a mistake or breaching a rule. Completely different getting caught defrauding it as a criminal.

For me, it simply isn't worth the risk of getting charged with fraud and deported, and potentially black listed from returning to Thailand. The result would be severe: losing access to my home, kids having to leave school, UK resettlement visa needed for the wife for us to be together, and a major upheaval to life generally.

BTW: I do extension based on marriage. 400k instead of 800k. 400k is only needed 2 months before and 1 month after. Very easy. Main downside for marriage is 2 visits to immigration to get it done each year instead of only 1 for retirement. Tying up 400k for 3 months in a designated account is a small price to pay for leaving here. I'd keep more than that in cash normally anyway regardless.

Cheers

Fletch ???? 

Quote

 

How to Input Data in TM30 Notification System and then print out to show immigration:

 

1) On the website version: Once you've logged in and input the data in the "TM30 Notification" part of the system there are 3 little icons in the top right of the screen:

 

save icon (looks like an old floppy disk) = banterk - to save/record data

cancel icon (2 docs and a cross) = yoklerk - to cancel

exit icon (in red with a door and an arrow) = ork - to exit

 

2) Click the save icon. Your data looks like it has disappeared but it hasn't

 

Make sure you remember the date you input the details or take a screen shot or print. Check in date is key for searching see below:

 

3) Click the exit icon to exit the system

 

4) Log into the system again and do a search do see your data. To do this re-log-in there is a menu with two folder icons in Thai 

 

• แจ้งรับคนต่างด้าวเข้าพัก

• ค้นหาและดูข้อมูล

5) Click on either to expand the menus

 

On the first one you will see that it is for "Notification TM30" or "Change Password" 

 

It's the second one you want that is "Search TM30" . This one let's you search data.

 

6) Click on the sub-line where it says "Search TM30"

 

7) That takes you to a search screen showing the user name and address. Put in the check in a range of check in dates, eg 7 Sep 2019 to 14 Sep 2019 and (max 7 days range. Both beginning and end is needed)

 

8 ) Click on the magnifying glass/ brown icon just below which says search in Thai. There are 2 icons just below the date. Left is search. Right is a cancel.

 

Click search/magnifying glass and it will show basic details: Name, passport ID, landing card no. sex, date in to stay, date (expected out) etc

 

Do a print screen of this in landscape format and it can be shown to Immigration

 

Cheers

Fletch ???? 

 

Above is a cut and paste from a doc I did on another forum

Being a qualified accountant I do all my own tax affairs myself.

Years back when I was Head of Finance for a small group of Thai companies, they used to pay THB 5k a month, for filing all the VAT, WHT and other tax forms, before I brought that back in house. Again for a company and much more work, but gives an idea it's not that expensive. That was for regular monthly filings. 

If your wife has never worked, and has minimal income, and your main issue is getting money back from bank interest, I suggest you both just go along to your local tax office and ask.

If Thai she can use her Thai ID number as her tax number. It's not difficult, and the local revenue offices tend to be quite helpful.

When filing my tax returns I've asked them for clarifications from time to time and always found them helpful. I've had a few more complex issues over the years, and when I submit a tax return and I ask, they would make any minor alterations. They seemed quite happy I'd made an effort (being a foreigner especially) and changes were usually minor.

Why a lawyer? If it's filing tax, I would choose a qualified accountant. They spend much more time dealing with accounts and tax filing returns than lawyers.

A lawyer tends to be more useful if you re clarifying legal aspects or technicalities of the law, or having legal disputes.

Most of the big accounting firms would have a department for this. However, depending on amounts involved they also may not be interested and/or would be expensive.

But, a small local accountancy firm sounds like it would fit the bill, would likely more suited and better value for money.