LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Riot police in Bahrain shooting protester point blank in back for holding protest sign http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsaGFPuWc8c I wonder if these people, shot at close range, have a right to self determination... LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) So now you are saying that the Germans had no choice but Hitler. Almost ANYONE would have been a better choice for them and for the rest of the world. Is there any rogue regime that you do not think up absurd justifications for? Edited March 17, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 So now you are saying that the Germans had no choice but Hitler. Almost ANYONE would have been a better choice for them and for the rest of the world. Is there any rogue regime that you do not think up absurd justifications for? Yes, I am; Hitler came to power in January 1933 when he was -reluctantly- appointed to Reichskanzler (Chancellor in English) by Paul von Hindenburg and THAT was the beginning of the following drama, leading to WWII. But since you know everything so well in history....WHO was/were the "ANYONE" you mention who would have been a better choice? I'm all ears ....Speaking about absurdity. But, of course, you're drifting off topic LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) But since you know everything so well in history....WHO was/were the "ANYONE" you mention who would have been a better choice? Heinrich Brüning would have been a much better choice (and unlike Hitler he did not write anything like Mien Kamph letting the German people know in advance ill intentions towards the Jews). In fact, he was an outspoken critic of Hitler and Nazism and had to flee Germany. Edited March 17, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnSvenskTiger Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hmm... Mr BO calls for dialogue here and air strikes in Libya. How many contracts of oil for arms does a despot need in order to be regarded as a "friend" of the US? Tiger Where's the link proving the allegation you just made? Arms sales to the Middle East are called Foreign Military Sales and are not exchangeable for oil. It's cash on the barrel head. You need to check Google a little more often. http://rianovosti.com/world/20110317/163054291.html "Washington's ambassador to the UN has said the UN Security Council should consider not just a no-fly zone over Libya but also the aerial bombing of forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi." Its been there all the time but came out in the clear just now. Mr Gates have explained to us all that a no fly zone must be protected by airstrikes and now we have a new "lady" telling us to bomb the hell out of Libya noflyzone or not. How hard are the Yankees to predict? Tiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 [http://rianovosti.co.../163054291.html Good try, but you posted your claim two days before this article appeared and the US had not called for the possibility of air-strikes yet. Nice try, but no cigar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I just think that if the African Union and the Arab League want to intervine in the Libyan crisis then get a UN charter and go ahead and do so themselves. The problem is we still don't f&*#ing get it. The majority of Arabs do NOT want Western powers meddling in the Middle East. Be it Bahrain, Libya, Egypt or anywhere else.And I am talking about the people. Not the puppet regimes that are asking for interention. This is the very core of Al qaeda's and all other terrorists reason for 'Jihad' against the West. IMO We need to stay out of it. Gaddafi is a very unsavoury character indeed but he must still have a mandate in Libya otherwise the rebellion would have been successful by now. WITHOUT external assistance.E,G The people of Libya are speaking. And at the moment the majority seems to be with Gaddafi. How do you know what the majority of Libyans want? The Army is what is keeping Gaddafi in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 But since you know everything so well in history....WHO was/were the "ANYONE" you mention who would have been a better choice? Heinrich Brüning would have been a much better choice (and unlike Hitler he did not write anything like Mien Kamph letting the German people know in advance ill intentions towards the Jews). In fact, he was an outspoken critic of Hitler and Nazism and had to flee Germany. Brüning was a good man but a silent man without any charismatic powers towards the German population; remember, there was no television, just radio and a few newspapers which nobody in the street bought, dead poor and hungry as the people were; and that was exactly what Hitler understood by spreading -false- promises towards a desperate population in mass gatherings. Like many dictators did and do. He had no chance whatsoever at all versus Hitler's NSDAP and didn't even see/recognize the dangers of the same at first. Let's go back to topic; this is about Bahrain, not Germany. BTW: I didn't see your comment yet about the shootings and plain murders of/at the protestors in Bahrain at short range...are they better shot and killed since they don't deserve self determination ? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hmm... Mr BO calls for dialogue here and air strikes in Libya. How many contracts of oil for arms does a despot need in order to be regarded as a "friend" of the US? Tiger Where's the link proving the allegation you just made? Arms sales to the Middle East are called Foreign Military Sales and are not exchangeable for oil. It's cash on the barrel head. You need to check Google a little more often. http://rianovosti.com/world/20110317/163054291.html "Washington's ambassador to the UN has said the UN Security Council should consider not just a no-fly zone over Libya but also the aerial bombing of forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi." Its been there all the time but came out in the clear just now. Mr Gates have explained to us all that a no fly zone must be protected by airstrikes and now we have a new "lady" telling us to bomb the hell out of Libya noflyzone or not. How hard are the Yankees to predict? Tiger Now provide the link dated 15 March, or before, citing Obama calling for air strikes in Libya. That's the one I would like to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I just think that if the African Union and the Arab League want to intervine in the Libyan crisis then get a UN charter and go ahead and do so themselves. The problem is we still don't f&*#ing get it. The majority of Arabs do NOT want Western powers meddling in the Middle East. Be it Bahrain, Libya, Egypt or anywhere else.And I am talking about the people. Not the puppet regimes that are asking for interention. This is the very core of Al qaeda's and all other terrorists reason for 'Jihad' against the West. IMO We need to stay out of it. Gaddafi is a very unsavoury character indeed but he must still have a mandate in Libya otherwise the rebellion would have been successful by now. WITHOUT external assistance.E,G The people of Libya are speaking. And at the moment the majority seems to be with Gaddafi. How do you know what the majority of Libyans want? The Army is what is keeping Gaddafi in power. the rebellion didn't have the numbers to take him down.Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hmm... Mr BO calls for dialogue here and air strikes in Libya. How many contracts of oil for arms does a despot need in order to be regarded as a "friend" of the US? Tiger Where's the link proving the allegation you just made? Arms sales to the Middle East are called Foreign Military Sales and are not exchangeable for oil. It's cash on the barrel head. You need to check Google a little more often. http://rianovosti.co.../163054291.html "Washington's ambassador to the UN has said the UN Security Council should consider not just a no-fly zone over Libya but also the aerial bombing of forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi." Its been there all the time but came out in the clear just now. Mr Gates have explained to us all that a no fly zone must be protected by airstrikes and now we have a new "lady" telling us to bomb the hell out of Libya noflyzone or not. How hard are the Yankees to predict? Tiger Now provide the link dated 15 March, or before, citing Obama calling for air strikes in Libya. That's the one I would like to see. I watched the same statement on TV. US Ambassador to the UN stated that the US is looking at futher military actions against Libya. Not only the no fly zone but possible ground attacks to take out tanks and other land vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The Army is what is keeping Gaddafi in power. You mean the Billions in cash Dollars are keeping the Army/Gaddafi in power No (very high) salary?................ no soldiers, no mercenaries. Simple really. But, even in the case he will win back most of the country, Libya is in pieces and without the tens of thousands of "guest" workers it will be extremely difficult to rebuild the country, next to the fact that the population will be terrified for the cruel aftermath by this insane dictator and his sons... Q: have you seen the images of the tent camps in Tunisia with thousands and thousands of poor refugees who fled Libya? ALL of their mobiles, cameras and (if any) laptops were confiscated, afraid as the Libyans are that pictures of cruelties and wounded and dead people will leak to the outside world. Sorry, just noticed I'm way off topic, posting in the wrong topic. Mea Culpa :jap: LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Amnesty condemns Bahrain crackdown as EU, NATO urge restraint By Slobodan Lekic (CP) – 25 minutes ago BRUSSELS — Amnesty International denounced the crackdown on the pro-democracy uprising in Bahrain on Thursday saying that the royal government was "very clearly trying to suppress any kind of freedom of speech." Meanwhile, both the European Union and NATO urged the authorities to refrain from violence and settle the escalating crisis through political dialogue. Amnesty called on the international community to pressure the authorities in Bahrain to allow demonstrations and freedom of speech and ensure that basic human rights are not "massively violated." "The Bahrain government needs to immediately stop any kind of violence and excessive force," Nicolas Beger, Amnesty's EU representative, told the AP in an interview. Beger said the security forces were using live ammunition against peaceful demonstrators and had occupied the capital's main hospital, effectively preventing those injured in the crackdown from getting medical help. He said medical staff had also been targeted. "You shoot at them and prevent them from getting help. That is one way of trying to deter other people from participating in demonstrations," he said. ... http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hPIKy6nDPOOzbSIi6g_TCPcADvzg?docId=6275093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 March 16, 2011 Bahrain Pulls a Qaddafi By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF It is heartbreaking to see a renegade country like Libya shoot pro-democracy protesters. But it’s even more wrenching to watch America’s ally, Bahrain, pull a Qaddafi and use American tanks, guns and tear gas as well as foreign mercenaries to crush a pro-democracy movement — as we stay mostly silent. In Bahrain in recent weeks, I’ve seen corpses of protesters who were shot at close range, seen a teenage girl writhing in pain after being clubbed, seen ambulance workers beaten for trying to rescue protesters — and in the last few days it has gotten much worse. Saudi Arabia, in a slap at American efforts to defuse the crisis, dispatched troops to Bahrain to help crush the protesters. The result is five more deaths, by the count of The Associated Press. One video from Bahrain appears to show security forces shooting an unarmed middle-aged man in the chest with a tear gas canister at a range of a few feet. The man collapses and struggles to get up. And then they shoot him with a canister in the head. Amazingly, he survived. Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/opinion/17kristof.html?_r=1&hp LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Bahrainis cannot be subdued for ever The Saudi intervention has sectarianised the conflict even more, and thus may well have sealed the Bahrain regime's fate Brian Whitaker guardian.co.uk, Thursday 17 March 2011 11.00 GMT Saudi Arabian troops arrive in Bahrain to prop up the monarchy against widening demonstrations. Photograph: Ammar Rasool/APAimages/Rex Features While much of the world has been preoccupied with questions about a no-fly zone over Libya, Arab Gulf states have been busy establishing what might be called a "no-protest zone" in the Arabian peninsula. Last week Saudi Arabia took an uncompromising stand against demonstrations on its own territory, declaring them both illegal and un-Islamic. Then, on Monday, it sent troops into Bahrain to assist the regime in quelling protesters there. The Saudis justified their action under a security agreement dating back to the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s and known as Peninsula Shield. This agreement, which involves the six Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC) countries (Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the UAE, Oman, Kuwait and Qatar), resulted in the creation of a joint military force intended to protect its members against external threats. As a communique from the GCC interior ministers put it in 1982: "Any aggression on a member state is aggression against the other states, and facing aggression is considered a joint responsibility." Story continues: http://www.guardian....nflict-protests LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I just think that if the African Union and the Arab League want to intervine in the Libyan crisis then get a UN charter and go ahead and do so themselves. The problem is we still don't f&*#ing get it. The majority of Arabs do NOT want Western powers meddling in the Middle East. Be it Bahrain, Libya, Egypt or anywhere else.And I am talking about the people. Not the puppet regimes that are asking for interention. This is the very core of Al qaeda's and all other terrorists reason for 'Jihad' against the West. IMO We need to stay out of it. Gaddafi is a very unsavoury character indeed but he must still have a mandate in Libya otherwise the rebellion would have been successful by now. WITHOUT external assistance.E,G The people of Libya are speaking. And at the moment the majority seems to be with Gaddafi. How do you know what the majority of Libyans want? The Army is what is keeping Gaddafi in power. the rebellion didn't have the numbers to take him down.Next question. Let me take you back through this. 1. Here is your statement... "And at the moment the majority seems to be with Gaddafi." 2. Here is my question... "How do you know what the majority of Libyans want?" 3. Here is your response to my question... "the rebellion didn't have the numbers to take him down.Next question." Do you want to try another response or should I just forget about asking you to support your statements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Bahrain arrests opposition leaders after crackdown Leaders of hardline parties among those held as troops take control of Pearl roundabout amid rising fear of regional conflict Reuters guardian.co.uk, Thursday 17 March 2011 09.17 GMT Bahraini opposition leader Hassan Mushaima, left, being greeted by an anti-government protester at Pearl roundabout in Manama this week, is one of those reportedly arrested overnight. Photograph: Hasan Jamali/APBahrain has arrested at least six opposition leaders, a day after its crackdown on protests by the Shia Muslim majority drew rare US criticism and raised fears of a regional conflict.Bahraini forces used tanks and helicopters to drive protesters off Manama's streets and clear a camp that had become a symbol of their demand for more democratic rights in the Sunni-ruled kingdom.Three police and three protesters died in the crackdown. It prompted sympathy protests from Shias across the region and analysts said it might provoke a response from Iran, which supports Shia groups in Iraq and Lebanon.Story continues: http://www.guardian....aders-crackdownInfo on: Bahraini opposition leader Hassan Mushaima: http://en.wikipedia..../Hasan_MushaimaLaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I watched the same statement on TV. US Ambassador to the UN stated that the US is looking at futher military actions against Libya. Not only the no fly zone but possible ground attacks to take out tanks and other land vehicles. The statement was made on 16 March. No cigar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 http://rianovosti.co.../163054291.html "Washington's ambassador to the UN has said the UN Security Council should consider not just a no-fly zone over Libya but also the aerial bombing of forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi." Its been there all the time but came out in the clear just now. Mr Gates have explained to us all that a no fly zone must be protected by airstrikes and now we have a new "lady" telling us to bomb the hell out of Libya noflyzone or not. How hard are the Yankees to predict? Tiger Now provide the link dated 15 March, or before, citing Obama calling for air strikes in Libya. That's the one I would like to see. I watched the same statement on TV. US Ambassador to the UN stated that the US is looking at futher military actions against Libya. Not only the no fly zone but possible ground attacks to take out tanks and other land vehicles. When did you watch it? The Ambassador might be saying a variation of the time worn phrase, 'all options are on the table'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Britons urged to leave Bahrain Government lays on flights as situation worsens, while David Cameron calls on king to end violence Amy Fallon guardian.co.uk, Thursday 17 March 2011 01.08 GMT Tanks block streets leading to Pearl Roundabout in Bahrain's capital. UK citizens have been urged to leave the country. Photograph: Joseph Eid/AFP/Getty Images The government will charter planes to evacuate Britons who want to flee Bahrain, as the situation in the Gulf state worsens.British citizens are being urged by the Foreign Office to leave Bahrain on commercial flights on Thursday.Those who cannot get a ticket will be evacuated on a Foreign Office-chartered flight costing £260.The advice comes as soldiers and riot police used tear gas and armoured vehicles to clear protesters from Pearl Roundabout, the focus of demonstrations in the capital, Manama."We recommend those British nationals who do not have a pressing reason to remain to leave via Bahrain International airport on 17 March by commercial means," the Foreign Office said.Story continues:http://www.guardian....anes?intcmp=239LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I just think that if the African Union and the Arab League want to intervine in the Libyan crisis then get a UN charter and go ahead and do so themselves. The problem is we still don't f&*#ing get it. The majority of Arabs do NOT want Western powers meddling in the Middle East. Be it Bahrain, Libya, Egypt or anywhere else.And I am talking about the people. Not the puppet regimes that are asking for interention. This is the very core of Al qaeda's and all other terrorists reason for 'Jihad' against the West. IMO We need to stay out of it. Gaddafi is a very unsavoury character indeed but he must still have a mandate in Libya otherwise the rebellion would have been successful by now. WITHOUT external assistance.E,G The people of Libya are speaking. And at the moment the majority seems to be with Gaddafi. How do you know what the majority of Libyans want? The Army is what is keeping Gaddafi in power. the rebellion didn't have the numbers to take him down.Next question. Let me take you back through this. 1. Here is your statement... "And at the moment the majority seems to be with Gaddafi." 2. Here is my question... "How do you know what the majority of Libyans want?" 3. Here is your response to my question... "the rebellion didn't have the numbers to take him down.Next question." Do you want to try another response or should I just forget about asking you to support your statements? He is still in power. Don't try to outwit yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 America rebukes Bahrain after violent crackdown on demonstrators Hillary Clinton condemns the rulers in Manama for not showing restraint as Shia-Sunni tensions mount around the Middle East Martin Chulov guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 16 March 2011 21.17 GMT The US has issued a sharp rebuke to Bahrain after a day of crackdowns on demonstrators, in which hospitals were blockaded by riot police, scores of people were wounded and the Shia diaspora condemned the kingdom's rulers. The capital, Manama, was under curfew from 4pm to 4am, and the government was using emergency laws to ban public gatherings. The central square known as Pearl Roundabout, which had been a base for the protest movement, was violently cleared by riot police. Troops and riot police then moved on to locations across the city, including the Salmaniya medical clinic , which had become a second focal point of demonstrations. Doctors reported being attacked in wards and claimed power to part of the hospital had been turned off. The government said it was pursuing "thugs and outlaws". "We have been chased, attacked and locked inside the grounds," one doctor told the Guardian. "But the worst thing is … that we have been stopped from reaching patients." Story continues: http://www.guardian....down?intcmp=239 LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 But since you know everything so well in history....WHO was/were the "ANYONE" you mention who would have been a better choice? Heinrich Brüning would have been a much better choice (and unlike Hitler he did not write anything like Mien Kamph letting the German people know in advance ill intentions towards the Jews). In fact, he was an outspoken critic of Hitler and Nazism and had to flee Germany. Brüning was a good man but a silent man without any charismatic powers towards the German population The point is that Heinrich Brüning would have been a much better choice and that just because someone is democratically elected does not mean that they will not turn out to be a tyrant or Islamic fascists - like the government in Gaza for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I watched the same statement on TV. US Ambassador to the UN stated that the US is looking at futher military actions against Libya. Not only the no fly zone but possible ground attacks to take out tanks and other land vehicles. The statement was made on 16 March. No cigar! Who cares when it was made? That is a quick shift in US policy in regards to the situation in Libya. It may have something to do with the fact that the Rebllion is in trouble. When they were going well the world were bust trying to look like they were going in to set up a no fly zone. My guess being that they thought the rebels would overthrow Gaddafi for them. Now that are in under the pump and Gaddafi seems sure to hold onto power they know he cannot be deseated without foriegn intervention. So that is why the is a change in policy. I don't like the man too much myself. I am stating what should seem obvious to everybody. He has the backing of the majority by way that he has defeated a rebelious minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I watched the same statement on TV. US Ambassador to the UN stated that the US is looking at futher military actions against Libya. Not only the no fly zone but possible ground attacks to take out tanks and other land vehicles. The statement was made on 16 March. No cigar! Who cares when it was made? Anyone who objects to posters posting dishonestly. He claimed that Obama was calling for air strikes and it was not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The point is that ........ I wrote in the same message: "Let's go back to topic; this is about Bahrain, not Germany." LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Not until you had your say first and then tried to change the subject. Try not to be so obvious. Anyway, as I said, just because someone is democratically elected does not mean that they will not turn out to be a tyrant or Islamic fascists - like the government in Gaza for example. Or Bahrain since you do not seem to have picked up on it. Edited March 17, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I watched the same statement on TV. US Ambassador to the UN stated that the US is looking at futher military actions against Libya. Not only the no fly zone but possible ground attacks to take out tanks and other land vehicles. The statement was made on 16 March. No cigar! Who cares when it was made? Anyone who objects to posters posting dishonestly. He claimed that Obama was calling for air strikes and it was not true. This post makes no sencse at all. I am quite mystified by it. I am sorry. But before a no fly zone is established in Libya, which I may add has just been aprroved and may start within hours, all anti aircraft positions must be neutraliased first. Method of neutrallising such targets is indeed "Airstikes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Not until you had your say first and then tried to change the subject. Try not to be so obvious. Anyway, as I said, just because someone is democratically elected does not mean that they will not turn out to be a tyrant or Islamic fascists - like the government in Gaza for example. Or Bahrain since you do not seem to have picked up on it. You behave like a small todler who's ball was taken away by some other boys in Kindergarden. Back on topic: Bahrain............NOT Germany; YOU started that, not me. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I am sorry. But before a no fly zone is established in Libya, which I may add has just been aprroved and may start within hours, all anti aircraft positions must be neutraliased first. Method of neutrallising such targets is indeed "Airstikes". All true now, but not when "Tiger" made his claim that Obama had called for airstrikes. Edited March 18, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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