RupertIII

17 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

For the rest there are no regulations or guidelines AFAIK which implies, unfortunately that it is left up to the discretion of individual officers to interpret. 

That, unfortunately, is precisely where the main problem lies. Who wants to remit large amounts of money without being able to calculate how much tax will need to be paid, if I decide to purchase a new car this year I cannot calculate how much I need to bring in to cover the tax liability and therefore how much the car will end up costing me! Better I continue to drive my old car and leave the funds outside of Thailand!

On a similar note my wife together with the accounts lady from our previous company went to the local tax office to enquire about a new TIN for me. Been using my old TIN,(for transfers from overseas to pay my UK based medical insurance) from when we had the company but my wife suggested I could get into trouble with this. Whilst she was at the tax office she asked the lady tax officer, who she described as very helpful and polite, would I be taxed on funds remitted for hospital treatment, the answer was probably no if I could provide a receipt from the hospital.

Whilst this was very considerate of her there is, to my knowledge, no exemption or allowance for this in the RD code and really just goes to prove Dogmatix's point that individual officers, to a lesser or greater degree, are able to use their discretion as they see fit. Unfortunately such latitude can lead to abuse which is a further concern.

5 hours ago, UKresonant said:

K, there is also an RD page that refers to a Bank of Thailand page  to use for the FX rate....

Surely if, when remitting foreign currency from overseas into a THB a/c, either the remitting bank or receiving bank convert into THB then this is the amount that would be used for calculation rather than the RD's assumed rate.

2 hours ago, UKresonant said:

Did anyone get a steer on the inheritance question someone posted a few pages ago. Their Lawyer was saying inheritance was 100m THB or less no tax if brought in and remitted same tax year, but may be taxed if remitted in latertax years.

 

Surely it would not be taxed, it would be savings? It's not income, how would it change Categories (according to the lawyers thoughts.

 

?

My wife contacted the lawyer again but not heard back, I think this may have got confused in translation. My wife called the tax office who told her that as it was rec'd, but not remitted to Thailand, some years back would not be taxable but if remitted at any time would require documented proof of inheritance which would make sense although, as with much of this, confusion still seems to reign. The tax office did say that gains/profit made would be taxable if remitted contrary to what is stated on their website, in both English and Thai. My suggestion would be that by income they mean to refer to an inherited annuity or similar. 

I have been under the understanding that there is no tax liability on inheritance from parents up to 100m THB., nor is there any tax on income derived from inheritance, up to certain limits, under Section 42 Para. [10].

My wife has today been speaking with our Thai lawyer who has advised that this is only the case if the inheritance was remitted to Thailand in the year it was received and if not then tax will be due as when all or any of the monies are remitted into Thailand.

Is anyone able to confirm this one way or the other? 

51 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

49) https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/other-taxes#:~:text=The inheritance tax rate is,are exempt from the tax. 

 

As you can see, the conditions vary based on the relationship and the amounts involved. More information exists in the link above.

 

The above link goes to the top of this page and not to pwc.com

4 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I've no idea if this has been shared yet, but apparently there's a standard $73 charge mandated by the OECD for tax authorities to receive its CRS report. Given how tight-fisted Thai officialdom is, unless the TRD has got a very good reason to suspect that they're going to get a lot of tax off you, then it's difficult to imagine them spending $73 each time on fishing expeditions to look at the foreign income of tens of thousands of expats.

Unless they charge us for it!

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

(up to) 100k for pension received

 

Not seen this one before. Does this mean that the first THB100k pa of overseas pension rec'd is exempt from tax in addition to the various other allowances? Thanks.

5 minutes ago, stat said:

What issue do you see arising from CRS? Pls read my post carefully. No taxes arises from making money in an offshore account while being a TH tax resident. ONLY the remittance will trigger thai tax and CRS does not show remittances into Thailand.

I would imagine that the onus will be on us to prove that the remittance was not into Thailand and no doubt, as someone earlier on in this or another thread mentioned had happened to him in the past, the tax man will request (demand) statements from all bank a/cs inside and outside Thailand.

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

So, In short, if you have gotten a certificate of residency to get a vehicle in your name or a drivers permit or to make a condo purchase in your name. Then you are now considered a taxable resident. Is this only for inheritance tax? Or will it be considered taxable income from profits abroad or income from abroad? Everything I read only leaves more questions to ask. If it is this difficult for a foreigner to know then I can not imagine how difficult it will be for the tax office to interpret. It might be best to plan all money sent to Thailand will be considered taxable until proven otherwise. This is going to be a nightmare.. 

To avoid confusion this could be referred to as a certificate of residential address. Nothing to do with permanent Thai Residency.

17 minutes ago, beammeup said:

Question: If you have foreign income in 2024 and are tax resident but do not remit the money until 2025 at which time you are not tax resident, Is it taxable?

According to the chart below you would appear to fit into Scenario No. 1, although how they would be able to collect tax if you are not here is a different matter.

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

51 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Not sure if this document has been posted here before.

 

https://www.mazars.co.th/mazarspage/download/1175616/59807824/file/Technical-update-November-2023.pdf

 

Quite interesting 

 

What if Mr A has a savings account from before 2024 holding  16000 thb.

He remits this money, instead of capital gain money realised from selling 80 shares in 2025,  to Thailand in 2026. Still taxable for the year 2026?

So they will not be taxing unrealised capital gains, that's a relief - excuse the pun!

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

Re global income tax of Thai tax residents, the Prachachart Thurakit article said the RD wants to amend the Revenue Code to introduce this.  So this may be only a stop gap. Whichever way you look at it, Thailand has a fairly low tax take and will need to increase that to meet the growing expectations of welfare, given that GDP growth is expected to continue to underperform due to lack of competitiveness.  That probably means higher personal and corporate tax rates, higher VAT, higher inheritance and gift taxes with lower thresholds, as well as global income tax collection. 

Interesting.  The Prachachart Thurakit article refers solely to income (รายได้) as opposed to also capital gains. As Thailand has no CGT as such and taxes capital gains as income I would be interested in knowing if the RD's proposed amendment is purely in respect of global income or would also likely encompass global capital gains, e.g. equities, investment funds, etc. If so if that would be only in respect of realized gains or also unrealized?

This is even more worrying - https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1443480

Google translation of the last paragraph, immediately above the copy of the official order:- In the future, the Revenue Department will amend Section 41 of the Revenue Code by immediately calculating tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.

54 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Unless the post was made by the Thai Government or the head of the RD, I wouldn't place a lot of faith in that post.

 

If you are not a resident of Thailand for tax purposes, it will not ( or should not ) be liable for Thai tax anyway.

Thanks Cyclist. There has been so much on different threads it is becoming difficult know what is fact and what is wishful thinking or fear mongering at times.

I have found the link to the other thread - https://aseannow.com/topic/1311285-change-in-the-tax-law-does-target-expats-living-in-thailand-and-extends-reporting-obligations/page/19/

which reads, at the start, An article in yesterday's Prachachart Thurakit suggests the RD is starting to walk this back a bit but not giving up on it https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1432180?fbclid=IwAR0FtCbDVifNc-atDT8uHGklrCLP5PNOva3VrsaHFX9W_kjEm-bKQBnqEKc .  It sounds like they are planning to exempt all foreign source income earned before 1 January 2024.

The link also provides a Google translation of the Prachachart Thurakit article which would appear to confirm as does the MS Word translation below and also My Thai wife's reading of it.  However, as you point out it is not directly from either the Government or the RD. My wife will be speaking to the accounts lady from our previous company but I rather suspect she is none the wiser!

readsStart charging from 2024

However, the latest A report from the Revenue Department has concluded that in the first phase, it will be relieved in the case of income generated abroad before 2024, which, if not imported within the same tax year as the year in which the income was generated, will not be subject to audits as it will be difficult to find evidence.

"   Income born before 2024  will use the old rule, that is, if it is not imported in the same tax year, the department will not collect it.

In the future, Section 41  of the Revenue Code will be amended to charge tax in the year in which income occurs abroad immediately. Whether or not the money is brought into the country. however It could take 1-2 years to amend the law."

On 11/13/2023 at 2:05 PM, The Cyclist said:

 

As of today, it is effective as of the 01 Jan 2024.

 

It is not legislation that is being changed, only the interpretation of the legislation. Whoch are 2 different things.

 

Sure, it might well be delayed, but the sensible thing would be to work on the 01 Jan 2024 and treat any delay as a bonus.

 

 

According to a post on one of the other threads this has now been deferred by 1 year. i.e. Funds earned in 2023 can now be brought into Thailand in 2024 without tax liability.

Can anyone else confirm this as I intend moving some cash from an off-shore investment into a bank a/c outside Thailand and then into Thailand in Jan 2024?

12 hours ago, RupertIII said:

Submitted mine on 3rd in the morning, rec'd automated confirmation and nothing else so far, still pending on the online system!

Previous report no approval by the due date, wife went to CW to do manually, they promised her at the time it wouldn't happen again. Can't say I believe a word they say!!

They must have seen my post yesterday, approval arrived 8.03 this morning!

4 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

 

Some more positivity from CW. Submitted on the 5th, approval received today, the 9th. 
Previous report was 10 days until approval. 

Submitted mine on 3rd in the morning, rec'd automated confirmation and nothing else so far, still pending on the online system!

Previous report no approval by the due date, wife went to CW to do manually, they promised her at the time it wouldn't happen again. Can't say I believe a word they say!!

1 hour ago, nottin said:

Thought it might be interesting to read some sections of the revenue code.

From the section 42 of the revenue code there are some sources of income which are exempt from income tax calculation.

(10) Income derived from an inheritance.

(23) Income from sale of investment units in a mutual fund.

(24) Income of a mutual fund.

 

Plus, there is no capital gain tax from equity trading in Thailand. So although not mentioned in the code specifically that would be another source exempted.  

 

These are cut and pasted from the code here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

From the link you quoted: Mutual fund means a body of persons who participate in a fund that is established and operated by an investment management company for a project under the law governing the control of trading activities that affect public safety and welfare.

It would seem that this would exclude the vast majority of mutual funds. 

Also, I think I read somewhere that it was suggested that only mutual funds in Thailand would fall under this exemption.

13 minutes ago, stat said:

No, only income (cap gains, pensions, dividends, rental income etc)remitted to Thailand will be taxed!

Thanks stat. My confusion (hope!) arose due to the OP quoting are not taxable unless remitted to Thailand in the year of receipt, inferring that cap gains and investment income would still be excluded (from tax) if remitted the year after receipt. I think he must have meant unless remitted to Thailand.

On 10/26/2023 at 4:51 PM, freeworld said:

 

Capital gains and investment income earned by a resident from sources outside Thailand are not taxable unless remitted to Thailand in the year of receipt.

 

Would this not change come 1st Jan 2024?

On 10/12/2023 at 4:36 PM, Dogmatix said:

You don't get the 150k threshold twice, if you file jointly with spouse.  You have to file separately, if you want that. But you do get all the allowances for each.  I have filed both jointly and separately. Filing jointly is advantageous if the spouse has little or no income of her own and thus has allowances that she couldn't use, if she filed alone.  If her income is significant, it might be better for her to file separately to get the 150k threshold for herself.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.

I have a Wise a/c where all my overseas monies are paid into. My wife also now has a Wise a/c into which I have been paying part of my UK pension into, really to keep her a/c active for the future, which she then transfers into her Thai a/c.

I assume that if I pay into her Wise a/c an additional amount at the end of each year to bring the total to an annual equivalent of THB210k (60k allowance + 150K at 0%) she can then transfer to her Thai a/c and we can then elect for separate filing, or might the taxman consider that evasion rather than legitimate avoidance, bearing in mind the transfers will show on her Wise statement as originating from my a/c?