Captain Chaos

My mother in law, sister in law and an English speaking cousin all came to Singapore to visit MrsCC and I last month. We moved to SG from BKK back in 2006 and I recall Changi immigration being quite snotty about the fact that we only had a letter to show that her Dependents Pass was in principle approved, not the little green card itself. They did eventually let her in, with a 14 day stamp. The rest is history. Anyway, with that in mind, I sent English speaking cousin a letter addressed to Changi Immigration saying who they were, why they were coming (wife is pregnant!) and that they could stay at our condo ... The full works! I needn't have bothered. Apparently the IO was very friendly and they all got 30 day stamps and were told "all ASEAN now". Everyone had a nice holiday in SG and they've all gone home now. Maybe they were lucky. Maybe the OP's SIL just got unlucky. Who knows?

Went to renew mine this morning. I will say right from the start that I am a Singapore PR which obviously makes it easier. The usual paper copies were provided of:

* Letter of invitation from Mrs CC, in English

* Marriage cert (Thai & English)

* Wife's passport

* Wife's Thai ID card

* My Singapore ID card

* Bank statement

This year, they also wanted two new things - a copy of my SPR re-entry permit (bit of paper that clips in the back of your passport), and a copy of a confirmed air ticket / travel itinerary to Thailand. I've never had to show the air ticket thing before but they were adamant they had to see it this year. No biggie but rather defeats the purpose of having a multiple entry visa to let you enter and exit the Kingdom freely at short notice in order to visit a Thai spouse and family?!

Whilst the Singapore Malay lady who processed the application was quite polite and clearly spoken as usual, my overall impression was that the environment was less receptive to visa applications this year. Most of the people in front of me in the Q were rejected for one reason or another, both westerners and Asians, and including a tour group of what appeared to be Mainland Chinese language school students, who only wanted single entry tourist visas! How hard can that be to issue...?

By the way, due to the building works, the front entrance to the embassy on Orchard Rd is now shut, and has shifted to the rear of the embassy at Colmore Road (next to the Pan Pacific hotel).

CC

Only a few seats left with Air India....good reviews on Skytrax and only a 2 and 3 hour stopover....bargain me thinks.

Not read many "good reviews" about Air India on Skytrax or anywhere else. In my opinion, avoid!

Lunch at Don Hoi Lot, which is roughly half way between Hua Hin and Petchaburi.

The other one is drinking the clean, safe tap water.

Tastes a bit chemically though, as the water is ferociously recycled here ... a legacy of not being water self-sufficient when Singapore broke away from Malaysia I suppose. Locals boil tap water then stick it in a jug in the fridge to cool before drinking. Certainly no need to buy bottled water although I know a few expats who insist on wasting their money on it ...

No mate, you weren't - the govt has loaded up the electronic surcharges on taxis going around the city area within peak hours (which appears to be any time except 12 midnight to 6am!). A bit like loading up the permit charges for car ownership, they think they can control traffic volumes by pricing it off the roads, and therefore everyone will take the bus or the MRT (underground).

Example - my commute to work (roughly 4km) would cost me maybe 8 dollars via cab, including ERP surcharges. On the bus, it is 86 cents!

I don't think it will work ... as Singapore gets more prosperous, the demand for private vehicle ownership, or people taking cabs instead of mass transit, will only increase...

Try the Prince of Wales... Aussie backpacker style pub, with dorm room accomodation upstairs. The original version is in Dunlop Street, Little India. They usually have some sort of 'beer of the week' style promotion on in the pub. Lots of great, and relatively cheap, Indian food to be had in the vicinity (obviously).

They also opened a branch on Boat Quay, but I suspect this will be more expensive due to the location, however you can but ask.

Also several backpacker style hostels in Mosque Street in Chinatown. Usually located upstairs in shophouses with karakoke bars downstairs. You won't lack for something to do!

Several 'budget' hotel chains around, such as Hotel 28 and Fragrance Hotel, but guess these will be more expensive.

Personally I think Sentosa is better with (small) kids. The island itself does little for me, although taking the cable car over from Mount Faber is fun (great photo opportunity), and the underwater world aquarium is pretty good.

I prefer East Coast myself. Great for some gentle exercise, walking, jogging or hire a push bike. Cheap beer at the East Coast Lagoon hawker centre. Large bottles of Carlsberg etc for S$6 (150 baht) a pop. Get some beers, walk up to Bedok Jetty (10 mins further up) and watch the fishermen, or have a go yourself if you have a hand line or better still a little spinning rod.

If you need a Thai fix, and especially if staying in Chinatown, then the Thai-Isaan restaurant on Pagoda Street is tried and tested (we lived in Chinatown for 4 years). Better and wider choice of grub to be had over at Golden Mile Complex (aka Little Thailand) on the Beach Road though IMHO. Some of the Thai community here also like to hang out over in Kallang Riverside Park, which is just over the other side of Crawford Street from Golden Mile. Very peaceful spot, and can watch the kids from a local canoe and dragon boat club paddling up and down for all they are worth.

Zoo is very good, I especially like the large orangutan habitat they have where the apes can roam relatively freely and you can see them pretty close up. Haven't done the Night Safari so can't comment. Botanical gardens very nice - try to go on a sunny day! - but prepared for a decent walk if you go all the way around.

Singapore Flyer - yes, it is touristy, but then you are tourists! Best time to go up is a clear evening around dusk IMHO - can get some awesome pictures of the city area as the skyscrapers light up. It is not all that far from Golden Mile.

Agree with soihok that Brewerkz is a good spot, and very cheap if you go early/mid-afternoon (they put the prices back up to Singapore city area norms in the evening though). Not the right place if you dislike American microbrewery-style beer though. Clarke Quay gets busy in the evenings. Boat Quay is quieter at the weekends in my observation, as during the week it is mainly populated by the after work drinks crowd. Not going to find much cheap beer round there though.

If the wife wants to go shopping, take her to Orchard Road (with a fixed budget!) and then retire to "Bodegas y Tapas" restaurant and bar, which is on the junction of Orchard, Tanglin and Orange Grove Roads. They do buy one, get one free all the way from opening (12 noon) to 8 or 9pm - they have San Mig and a few other pints on draft, and a wide-ish range of bottled beers too. Food is pretty good, but they have never objected to me just sitting there having several beers whilst awaiting MrsChaos' return! Great people watching spot, especially as it is just around the corner from Orchard Towers!

Have fun...

I used the e-gates back in Feb. Arriving at T3 one early morning, they worked fine, and there was no Q whatsoever to use them (moderate Q at the EU manned desks). Had to make some regional flights on business in Europe - arriving back at T5 one Friday evening, would the e-gates work (with the same passport, obviously)? Would they bugger! I wasn't the only one having a problem and there were long Qs both for the e-gates and the manned desks.

Therein lies the problem, just not consistently reliable. Takes far longer for an average passenger to know what to do to resolve any problem than a professional immigration officer at a manned desk...

I got my Thai marriage certificate translated into English in Singapore by a local Thai-run language school who are just around the corner behind Orchard Towers (yes, really). Then had that translation certified by the Thai Embassy. That was it, no need to involve any Thai authorities in Bangkok or elsewhere. Singapore MOM accepted it as part of the supporting docs before issuing the missus with her first Dependents Pass. No hassle at all.

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This seems like a good idea to get her in there but would it not make it difficult for her to gain PR and citizenship in the future?

I don't know all the details but my understanding is the rights of these maids are fairly limited.

You're right, but I think the focus should be on getting the lady into Singapore to start with. PR has become very difficult to get now, even for western expats on large remuneration packages, so I think for the OP and his girlfriend an application for PR is going to be a long way down the tracks...

BTW, Singapore has even made it difficult to bring a wife here over the past couple of years. Now the marriage has to be of a certain length, and there are all sorts of other hurdles and restrictions. There have been a number of stories in the press about the difficulties experienced by men who 'buy' a wife through a marriage agency here and are unable to get her into the country. Again, I detect a real bias against Thai nationals, and it may be more difficult to bring a Thai wife in rather than one from China or Vietnam (the more common 'source countries' for Chinese Singaporean men).

That's very interesting and I have also seen the odd story in the Straits Times or Today (I don't read the local papers that often) about elderly local gentlemen who "imported" brides from VN, CN etc and then the lady disappeared ASAP. No doubt the authorities have or will crack down as a result. However - these are all Singaporean men so their "wives" visas would fall under ICA's remit (I think!). The OP is a foreigner, offered employment in Singapore, so his other half's visa would be under MOM's authority. Having fairly recently moved from an Employment Pass to Permanent Resident, I know that MOM operate quite differently to ICA. Don't disagree that it will require considerable patience and persistence from the OP, plus a gazillion bits of paper, to get it done, but I wouldn't be totally dispirited just yet...

Try MBK

Agreed. The clothes stall areas (5F?) had lots of rugby world cup "replicas" last year.

No, a DEP ... We are "legally" married in Thailand (ie, at the Amphur). I meant that there was no need to go through another marriage process in Singapore. I just got the Thai marriage certificate translated into English and had the Thai embassy certify that translation. Then showed it to MOM.

My stepson got a LTVP to start with. They wouldn't grant a DEP I assume because he's not my biological son. It was all pretty straightforward though. He's on a (primary school) Student Pass now which is a really good scheme - can be up to a 6 year visa!

MrsChaos and I have become Singapore PRs now, so we have to deal with ICA rather than MOM. That's a shame as MOM are far more user friendly.

Good luck.

The Student Pass is an interesting idea, you should follow that one up. In practical terms there is little between a DEP and an LTVP, except that it is easier to gain permission to work if under a DEP. Singapore Ministry of Manpower (MOM) is very user friendly and usually display a 'can do' attitude to any issues that crop up, so long as you aren't trying to pull the wool over their eyes, and have a well-remunerated job offer in Singapore for which you are well qualified. Why not contact them and ask them what paperwork they would want to see to consider an application for a DEP / LTVP?

My missus and I have been living in Singapore since late 2006 and we both like it here (for differing reasons). For her, it is distinctively SE Asian, there is a large Thai community and it is certainly a good place to improve English language skills.

Good luck.

I think I will follow up on the Student Pass, thanks brit1984. Cost will be my only hurdle but I can look into that.

Captain Chaos - I've looked at the MOM website for DEP and LTVP and it is quite clearly listed what the requirements are. I'd have no problem marrying her if everything continues as it is, probably after we've been together a little longer and I'm settled in Singapore. Not sure if Singapore recognises Thai marriage (she'd want to marry in Thailand), but if not maybe marry in Singapore too??!

I'm not on a full blown expat package, but the pay is decent for SG. Monthly SGD after tax will be $6350, and although I know property rental is expensive in SG, I think that should still be enough for two people to live on - so I'd hope MOM sees I have enough to take care of her even if she isn't working. It's just knowing which form fits us, as there is a catch 22 situation with her needing to live with me to prove common-law marriage, which will be hard if she only gets a 30 day travel visa (and I don't want to risk immigration flagging anything with multiple re-entries).

Thanks for everyone's help so far!

The 30 day social pass will work for a while, but you will need to go through immigration every time to be sure they don't turn her away. I suspect that after a few months they will warn you to stop using the 30 day social pass.

You will need to go ahead and register the marriage in Thailand (no need for the ceremony if you don't want it) and get her a dependent pass.

I'm sorry, but you are nuts to go work in Singapore for that kind of money. You are going to end up in a 2 room HDB flat and spending 25% or your income on that. Anything decent is going to be S$3-4K a month. Our housing allowance in Singapore is S$8,000 a month alone.

Good luck, I hope it works out.

TH

Yes, i agree. There may be no official restrictions on the visa waivers for Thais (all ASEAN and so on) but I know two European guys working here, whose quite legit girlfriends were refused entry and/or given a thorough grilling at Changi immigration, after visiting repeatedly. A long term visa is the way to go. Still think the OP should call MOM, or even go see them in person once he is here, has his EP etc. They are usually super helpful if you make the effort to go over there.

My wife and I got married in Bang Rak. No need to register marriage in Singapore too. You will need to get an English translation of the marriage cert made, and have the Thai embassy certify it. This is all pretty straight forward stuff but will take a few days.

Off topic: would agree that S$6,350 may be a little tight in Singapore these days. Yes, locals live on much lower salaries, but they tend to live at the parents home until relatively late in life, so no rental or mortgage costs. That said, I know a couple of expats who prefer the out of town life and live in HDBs over in Tampines etc and seem very happy doing so!

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Sathorn if you have money to burn,or @ Chong Nongsi BTS there are lots of small condos,

which is just around the corner from Silom, Sala Daeng etc.

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But if you ask anybody here they will all give different opinions.

Above is spot on, this is a very personal choice so no "right or wrong" answer. For myself, I enjoyed living in Naradiwas Soi 24 (Rama III area, down the road from Chong Nonsi BTS). Lots of choice around there, from high end serviced apartments down to small condos.

The Student Pass is an interesting idea, you should follow that one up. In practical terms there is little between a DEP and an LTVP, except that it is easier to gain permission to work if under a DEP. Singapore Ministry of Manpower (MOM) is very user friendly and usually display a 'can do' attitude to any issues that crop up, so long as you aren't trying to pull the wool over their eyes, and have a well-remunerated job offer in Singapore for which you are well qualified. Why not contact them and ask them what paperwork they would want to see to consider an application for a DEP / LTVP?

My missus and I have been living in Singapore since late 2006 and we both like it here (for differing reasons). For her, it is distinctively SE Asian, there is a large Thai community and it is certainly a good place to improve English language skills.

Good luck.

They will have more room for economy seats because their business class is smaller than SQ's.. I bet they will still have a bigger seat pitch.

SQ's economy offering on the A380 is pretty reasonable in terms of seat pitch. The biz class ones that they make such an advertising meal of are a bit of a con IMHO! And not very comfortable either....

I find SQ business class seats on the A380 great. I find they conform with their marketing. 5* comfort the whole way.

Fair enough, I just can't get on with them myself. For a start, I'm too tall to fit in the "diagonal" sleeping position unless I can get a bulkhead seat! I'd rather fly first class on Thai, or possibly Emirates, both of whom charge about the same as biz class on SQ! Of course, that means you have to transit somewhere instead of flying direct. Pros and cons etc...

A good way to avoid getting ripped off is not to approach a taxi that's parked and looking for business, unless it's in a designated taxi rank, for example at the airport or at a shopping mall. Flagging a moving cab down seems to minimize the number of crazies / criminals. Not 100% obviously, but it helps.

+1!

They will have more room for economy seats because their business class is smaller than SQ's.. I bet they will still have a bigger seat pitch.

SQ's economy offering on the A380 is pretty reasonable in terms of seat pitch. The biz class ones that they make such an advertising meal of are a bit of a con IMHO! And not very comfortable either....

Direct flights always command a premium. Transiting somewhere tends to be cheaper. It doesn't surprise me you can get cheaper fares from other carriers and Thai appear "uncompetitive from their own hub" as someone put it.

I live in Singapore, and Singapore Airlines, although an excellent carrier, are by far the most expensive route for me to take to London. I fly biz class not economy, and I often choose Thai SIN-BKK-LHR as can be 25% cheaper than flying direct on Sing Air and still part of Star Alliance. I have no particular complaints as the biz class cabins on the London route were upgraded several years ago and are broadly comparable with most other airlines biz class offerings.

If I have to transit, I'd rather do it in BKK than Dubai etc.

Edit: I think TG are better for long haul than short. Some of their regional routes are served by some real old clunkers. So I agree I'd probably try SQ, CX etc where possible.

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If you had limited funds and needed to use the same nest egg for actual investing as well as satisfying the passport requirements, and given the fact that you like this part of the world, I'd say Singapore. It's a great stable and secure nation with decent rule of law (a bit too much for my taste 8-). Apparently they've made things easier recently but certainly have stricter residency requirements than the others I mentioned.

Other way around, getting Singapore PR has become much more difficult in the last year. Getting an Employment Pass to work in SG remains ridiculously easy, but residency is administered by a different government agency who are much tougher. I was lucky and go my PR in mid-2010, just before they started ramping up the requirements...

They were operating on Thursday evening when I arrived.

The airport IS your solution. By appearing at departures immigration with a boarding pass, you are voluntarily resolving your overstay issue. As Lop has advised, you will face a fine, but probably no further sanction. It should not, so far as I know, affect your ability to re-enter Thailand in the future.

The worst thing you could do is to report to immigration elsewhere than the airport. With no immediate way for you to leave Thailand, they can't just fine you and let you go. They'll have to lock you up and then deport you. That will put you at risk of being declared "non grata"!

Don't delay, change your flight and leave Thailand ASAP. Pay the fine, reset your immigration status, and come back again. Tomorrow would be good!

To all the Brits. Pedigree or Tetleys?

Pedigree. Every time.