marsbloke

Thanks. Well, aside from the fact that I'm not sure what a tabien baan is, the only thing I'm wondering about now is how do I get a copy of my divorce certificate? I lost it a long time ago. (Actually don't even remember ever receiving it!) Will they just take my word for it? I've lost touch with the ex and wouldn't want to try to contact her.

What is legally required to get married in Thailand, either to a Thai or to another foreigner? What paperwork is needed? What is the procedure? Thanks.

Thanks. This is a simple tiny growth that I think probably just needs to be frozen off. No need for a top surgeon for this job. Is there a clinic in Bkk where you can see a specialist really cheap? I used to live in CM and there they had a clinic that was super-cheap--even a farang could see a doctor for about 100-150 baht, if I recall correctly. Procedures would be extra, but not much. You had to register with them and get a card but that was free.

Does anyone know a good, cheap place to find a decent dermatologist? I have a tiny pimple or mole or something on my nose and want to get it removed. Thanks.

Thanks again for the education. Meadish, yes, I would love to know the address of that apartment building. Sounds interesting.

Gazza, yeah, I found it exhausting usually because I always did it and returned the same day. Also I'm a nightowl and could never get more than a few hours sleep the night before. So it was always pretty tiring.

Well I wonder is there some easy way to get a non immigrant visa? See, I don't work in Thailand, and don't study. Hmmm....if I got a part time teaching job could I get a non-imm? Like really part time...couple of hours a month?

Thanks, I didn't know you could have unlimited local calling in Thailand. So I wonder how much an unlimited dialup account would cost?

And I would also have the installation charge for a phone line, which is what, $100?

That seems awfully high for Thailand. And a couple hundred baht a month would allow me unlimited local calling?

CMT, did you mean 600 baht? You can't be paying 6000 baht a month for internet!!??!

Heck, I know cafes in CM where you can get it for 10 baht an hour.

Loong, but they still let you back in for a 4th 30-days?

Cute Thai Girl, when I was living in CM a couple of years ago, I did a combo of tourist visas and extensions, and then went on long stretches of 30-day consecutive walking because it was just easier than going out of the country for a new visa. Managed to stay over 3 years with those strategies. Now I wonder if I can still do it.

I didn't consider myself an undesirable for doing that; I was not working, just putting my money into the Thai economy.

Tourist visa now seems less attractive than ever and not worth doing, due to the ridiculous new 1900 baht price for a one month extension. I simply refuse to pay that.

A retirement visa is something I might have considered, but not if I have to put 800.000 baht in a Thai bank at 0.5% interest. That amounts to at least USD 1000 of lost bank interest a year, considering that you can get 5.5% or higher in the US.

So I'm now thinking of maybe trying the consecutive 30 day visa runs and see if I can get away with it. But I remember how exhausting those were too, every 30 days (actually every 29 days, since they cheat you out of a day). Maybe I will live in Chiang Rai if I choose to try that route.

Or if all else fails, Vietnam beckons.

Thailand has got a huge tourism infrastructure that depends on a certain number of tourists a year, and the longer they can stay, the more money Thailand makes. With Toxin's new restrictions, I don't see how it can do anything but reduce tourism.

Thanks. Well, how is the True Cable? What I am looking for is price/value and low installation charge. Don't care that much about speed as long as it's reasonable. Dial-up type speed is okay with me, but dialup would be too expensive with the per minute phone charges.

I am coming back to thailand but don't know if I will live there long, as it might be too difficult with all the new visa restrictions and higher expenses and endless crackdowns, so I might decide to go to Vietnam. I live on the net. I don't watch TV, hence don't care about cable TV. I don't use the phone except my cell phone occasionally, so I don't really need a phone. Since I might move after a short time, I value low installation charges or the ability to move and then reconnect without having to pay a whole new install charge.

I also might very well be living long term in a hotel. What do you think would be best for me--cable? ADSL? Net cafe? (actually i hate using cafes, i'm on the net 10 hours a day and hate all the music they play endlessly and repetitively in those places) Thanks.

SBACM, how much does it cost to install a phone line?

ChiangMaiThai, I was under the impression ADSL came in over cable TV cables! Obviously I need to do more research.

If it's coming in over the phone, aren't the per minute phone charges going to make it very expensive? Or does it work differently?

Thanks.

Is TOT really offering ADSL with no connection charges? Would you need a phone line in order to get this TOT ADSL?

Even if you move a lot, you can keep hooking up with no connection charges?

Can you get it anywhere, even in Chiang Rai or Mae Sai or somewhere in the sticks?

Sorry if I sound ignorant, I am--have never had ADSL but definitely want to get it if I return to Thailand (as looks likely)

Thanks.

I've never had ADSL before so there's a lot i don't know. Can you get ADSL anywhere in Thailand, or just in bigger cities? I heard that TOT was offering high speed internet with no connection charge. Is that going to be available anywhere in the country? Would you need a phone line installed in order to get this? (I think ADSL does not use phone lines, is that correct?)

Are there any catches to the no connection charge thing? I mean, if I move every six months, I can keep getting it hooked up anew for free?

Thanks for any answers.

No, I meant, can you still do it over and over and over...every month for a year or more?

What's the latest info on the issue of crossing into Burma and coming back every month? Is this definitely not allowed any more?

Thanks. Phil actually replied.

I've tried contacting The Nation by the addresses on their website ([email protected], [email protected]) and always get the email returned as address doesn't exist.

Does anyone know an email address for the Nation that works? I want to contact the editors.

Thanks.

Mars Bloke

Do you come from there??

cutethaigirl

Mars Bloke

Do you come from there??

No, Cute Thai Girl, there's no oxygen on Mars to support my heavy breathing :-)

Sorry but that is absolutely nonsense John B Good. I don't know what people your respected friend associates herself with. I went to Regina Coeli school for 10 years and upon graduation one girl in a class of 160 wasn't a virgin (we were 15, now we are 30). Most of my friends remained so until marriage, many others were involved with boyfriends, a few were kept, but considering we are 160 middle class women, I would say less than 5% of these girls have gone on in life to do something we all consider a bit dodgy - mostly mia noy, only one a prostitute.

To say that most girls in CMU are on the game is just utter ignorance. Its farang men with this attitude that so annoys us Thais. Sure, many are, but the numbers you cite are just way out of porportion. Believe it or not, Thai society does not condone this behaviour, so its hardly a good career move. Only two types at CMU hook 1. the desperate, 2. the shallow and vain who want a better lifestyle. The majority are decent women trying to get an education.

, Thai society does not condone this behaviour, so its hardly a good career move. Only two types at CMU hook 1. the desperate, 2. the shallow and vain who want a better lifestyle. The majority are decent women trying to get an education.

And prostitutes are not decent? Why not? Some of the finest women I've ever known have been prostitutes. When is society going to grant these selfless women the respect they deserve?

Sow Jiang Mai / k. Pim!!! I just read the whole article from Citylife from the link you provided. Thank you very much!!! I think it's a truly excellent piece of journalism, MUCH better frankly than the standard sensational blurb in that Australian newspaper. Needless to say I also found it very shocking.

I do have some questions and remarks about some things in the report:

> If anyone reports a case of suspected paedophilia, then the

> authorities have the right to go into any building without a search

> warrant and remove the child without the permission of the parents.

Really? I would find that a bit disturbing... Like if I get into an argument with just anybody I could accuse the person of child abuse and have police take his kids away without a warrant or any initial legal procudure? I know the measure is well-intended, but it also sounds rather scary to me.

And another thing:

> Child Trafficking

> • According to the World Tourism Association, every year

> 120,000,000 trips are made with sexual objectives in mind

> in the world. Yes, One Hundred and Twenty Million!

I personally feel that far too many TV documentaries, magazine stories and newspaper reports make this link between paedophelia and 'main stream' sex tourism. I'm not sure this is done to juice up the story, to bring it closer to the 'home' of the readership, or because they're just uninformed or don't care.

I think that when Joe Schmoe goes to Samui with the blokes for some sun, sea and bargirls, I don't think this is overly relevant in a discussion on child abuse and child prostitution. Don't take this as too much of a criticism, after all CNN and BBC do it too, like write up or shoot a sometimes good report about child sexual abuse but then they seem to go "Aaahh.. visuals.. visuals... need some pictures.." "You know what, let's take the crew down to Patpong and Soi Cowboy and shoot some!". (!!!) In doing so they create a totally false and misleading image, like the audience listens about a serious, shocking problem, but sees Joe Schmoe with the blokes at Patpong... I think that's misleading. Ok I'm getting carried away, your article is still a lot better than most things I read in the international press/media!!

> One of the last big busts of a brothel was the arrest of the owner of

> Charoen Muang’s Pandora in November. Sixteen under aged

> prostitutes were discovered.

Any updates as to what happened to him? Was he convicted and for how long? And is Pandora still in operation? Also this touches a tiny little bit on my previous point.. like you've been painting an excellent and shocking image of abuse of children as young as 3 years old, but then add this bit about a bust where 'under aged' prostitues were found.... I won't comment too much about it without knowing the ages involved, but I have a feeling it was closer to 16-17 than pre-puberty kids right? Great that the place was busted and the guy hopefully convicted because I too feel that 16 year olds should be in school and not in a massage parlour fish bowl, but... not sure this is the same mechanics at work that result in the abuse of very young children. The 16-17 year olds most likely just went up there for a job interview.. I don't blame you for mentioning it, but perhaps would have partitioned these things more as separate issues deserving different action. (NOT necessarily less action, but different action!)

(And the cynic in me thinks that busts of this type are most likley not driven by tips about child abuse to children/vice police teams but are just as likely to be driven by police-politics, commissions, and tea-money issues on the part of different police teams.....) Never mind answering 'is Pandora still in operation', which was a bit of a rhetorical question because I know it is still open. (And I SWEAR I know this because I sometimes eat at the excellent 'taam sang' food place opposite it near the old Vista cinema. )

> According to a 1998 ILO report it is estimated that 100,000 to 200,000

> Thai women and children are in brothels and nightclubs in foreign

> countries.

ILO was that same organization who put the number of child prostitues in Thailand at 800,000 right...? International Labour Organisation you commented on as providing 'high' figures? So I would be a bit more critical at these figures too. Furthermore, like so many organisations, they seem to make no difference between a 5 year old and a 17 year old, just putting them all in the 'children' statistic. Even worse: The quote above doesn't even attempt to distinguish between adult women and children!! That would be enough reason for me not to give the ILO much credit on this topic.

Thanks again for posting here and posting the link to the Citylife article!!

Cheers,

Chanchao

Chanchao is partially correct. Without a doubt, media portrayal of pedophilia and child traficking is wildly exaggerated. As it is today you can't even go to Cambodia because the media have succeeded in creating the impression that anybody who goes there is a pedophile.

There are several reasons for this media exaggeration. First of all, the media love to sensationalize. They love to terrify and tittilate, that is why they run stories about sex with tremendous exaggerations of its "danger." There are innumerable NGOs now which are also feeding the media wild exaggerations, because the name of the game in the NGO biz is exaggerate wildly in order to get funding. The heads of these NGOs are not selfless charitable ascetics who just want to help people, they make big bucks. Another reason the media exaggerate is because the media, despite pretensions to the contrary, are in the business of supporting the establishment, and the Globalization Establishment now has a very clear program to demonize commercial sex and shut it down as much as they can, for which program they are letting the NGOs do the work for them. This is a clear pattern; when the Globalization Establishment which wants to take away our freedoms and create a global corporate dictatorship needs to create an issue, they use the NGOs to create the "need for action." Check out who funds the NGOs and you'll find corporations and corporate owned foundations.

Personally, I find it rather odd that people get so hot under the collar about pedophilia, ready to castrate people and tear them limb from limb with their bare hands, but don't get upset when US or Israeli or whatever armed forces kill little kids, as they do all the time with their bombs and guns and depleted uranium shells which have caused hundreds of thousands of cases of leukemia wherever they've been used. Or the millions of children who starve in the third world because of the Structural Adjustment policies of the World Bank and IMF. Pedophilia is terrible, but compared to so many other crimes against children, it is very minor. Again, the focus on it is not due to any morality of the Establishment (what a joke!) but to distract you from other bigger crimes. They're just pushing your "hot buttons" just like Bush does when he makes an issue of a silly thing like gay marriage. They know how to manipulate the people, they've been doing it for eons, and in this the media are their faithful servants.

Another aside in case you think my spelling is up the creek Huay Gaew is spelt with a "G" as in Gor-Gai and not a Kor-Kai as everyone seems to use. The same goes for Central shopping complex, "Gaad Suan Gaew" and not K. "Gaad" or gaad luang is old Chiangmai for market. In answer to your thought there, yes there are two Thai brothels nestling cozily at the back of the complex. Coupled with a gay "massage" a few doors along. Just happened to see them whilst shopping one day...........

Another aside in case you think my spelling is up the creek Huay Gaew is spelt with a "G" as in Gor-Gai and not a Kor-Kai as everyone seems to use. The same goes for Central shopping complex, "Gaad Suan Gaew" and not K. "Gaad" or gaad luang is old Chiangmai for market. In answer to your thought there, yes there are two Thai brothels nestling cozily at the back of the complex. Coupled with a gay "massage" a few doors along. Just happened to see them whilst shopping one day...........

What is this "Green Hills?" I have never heard of it.

Go go bars, beer bars, etc., should not be considered brothels. The only brothels I knew of in CM were the ones on Sittiwong St and the ones off Nimmenheimen Soi 13. They were shut down last year, along with all the tea houses in the Chang Phuak area. Was any of this stuff ever reopened?

Overall though, I think "brothels" in the strictest definition of the word may be on their way to be become VERY marginalized. (Even more so than is already the case) This because Thai law makes a big difference between places where sex takes place on the premise itself, and places where prostitutes are merely taken out. There's MUCH less punishment in the books for the latter.

So to counter the balance, what you may see more will be small pubs/bars/karaokes where prostitutes can be taken out to a cheapo shorttime hotel. Or even places where women cannot be taken out at all and anything that happens are just after-hours liaisons that really start to blur the line between 'prostitution' and 'getting a girlfriend/mistress who works in a restaurant'.

For an example, drive down Wiang Phing road in the evening.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Overall though, I think "brothels" in the strictest definition of the word may be on their way to be become VERY marginalized. (Even more so than is already the case) This because Thai law makes a big difference between places where sex takes place on the premise itself, and places where prostitutes are merely taken out. There's MUCH less punishment in the books for the latter.

So to counter the balance, what you may see more will be small pubs/bars/karaokes where prostitutes can be taken out to a cheapo shorttime hotel. Or even places where women cannot be taken out at all and anything that happens are just after-hours liaisons that really start to blur the line between 'prostitution' and 'getting a girlfriend/mistress who works in a restaurant'.

For an example, drive down Wiang Phing road in the evening.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Well then Sayuri is a brothel, as you said, as it takes place on premises. Are it and similar establishments too to be marginalized? Or is it only the places for the lower classes?

As for the places where girls can be taken out, CM had that with Sandidham, and that too has been closed down (at least was when I was there last year). I don't know about the places near the Imperial Mae Ping, were they shut too?

Face facts, there is a war taking place against commercial sex, certainly by Thaksin, but also by countless NGOs who pretend to be humanitarian but are in reality following an agenda set by corporate globablization. Comm'l sex is going to get harder and harder to find, and more and more expensive (maybe the shutting of all the low end competition is what enabled Sayuri to raise its prices again) This is nothing less than an attack on personal freedoms, whatever the pretext they use. It's right out of Orwell's 1984.

Where's Wiang Phing road? Never heard of it.

QUOTE (marsbloke @ Mon 2004-06-14, 04:21:02)

There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown. 

It saddens me that people can go through life with such blinkers on. Admittedly, some of the more blatant, Farang oriented brothels were temporarily closed but the vastly more numerous businesses catering to Thais of all classes and tastes were left untouched. You will find examples in most areas of the city if you look closely, but you will not be permitted to partake of their delights unless you have black hair and yellow skin. As a Farang, attempting to gain entry to some of these places can be extremely dangerous to your health.

And yes, the fronts catering to Farangs of unnatural, unpleasant tastes are still up and running behind their curtains and walls of secrecy.

I was in Chiang Mai numerous times over the last 10 years and noticed last year that the brothels on Sittiwong St. had been shut permanently and the buildings converted to other uses. Not just the usual temporary "crackdown." Those were Thai oriented brothels, the only ones I knew of, have never heard of "vastly more numerous" establishments, there were only 3 or 4 total. I have never heard of "farang oriented brothels" unless you're referring to Sayuri and such which are not brothels. Also I never saw anyone there who appeared to be underage and have never heard of brothels in Bkk.

In a closed topic, Lifelover wrote:

"I see far too much sloppy reporting like the following, which patently fails that distinction: <Pim Kemasingki, editor of Chiang Mai Citylife magazine, who has recently investigated the extent of child abuse in Chiang Mai, says the situation is serious and getting worse. "The police say every brothel they go to, they find under-age kids. There is a whole network of pedophiles in Chiang Mai, but it has gone a lot more underground in recent times," she says.>"

This is an example of why you can't believe what you read in the press. There are no more brothels in Chiang Mai. As far as I know, they were all shut down last year, for reasons unknown.