dseawarrior

Nvere heard of that service being available in Asia. I guess you are going to have to do more research yourself or start with the postal applications.

I think you are right. I sent an email to UPS corporate in BKK.... UPS often offers Live Scan at USA locations...

Will know on Monday if the option exists...

Otherwise back and forth snail mail...

Cheers,

:jap:

Mine is a slightly different question...

Is Live Scan Service -- to check with USA database criminal background check -- available in Thailand or a nearby country in Asia?

Need to do for a job application in the USA... Otherwise need to FedEx or UPS fingerprint cards back and forth across the Pacific Ocean...

Suggestions?

Many thanks!

dseawarrior

:jap:

In some states, local police stations do live scans and yes, those are submitted to a database which does the state background check. But there are some police stations where they only run local background checks, so please be aware. From my understanding State and Nationwide Background checks are acceptable by most agencies. Many teaching agencies are requiring background checks and apostilles on degrees. My friend got a live scan (electronic fingerprint) background check in California and then the CRC (criminal record check) apostille, but that was for South Korea. He lives in Costa Mesa, California.

We have had teachers submit the state background check and it has been accepted. At least I believe it's the state background check. The person went into the local police department and got it.

Thanks for all the good info here...

Mine is a slightly different question...

Is Live Scan Service -- to check with USA database criminal background check -- available in Thailand or a nearby country in Asia?

Need to do for a job application in the USA... Otherwise need to FedEx or UPS fingerprint cards back and forth across the Pacific Ocean...

Suggestions?

Many thanks!

dseawarrior

:jap:

He says the work permit has been applied for so a receipt should be available. But do not believe it is normally required for teachers in any case if they have school paperwork for the visa application. In this case a non immigrant B visa would be what he wants but work permit could be issued on others if conditions warrant.

Thanks for the responses...

Lopburi3 is on target for both responses... Yes, I should have applied for a RE-ENTRY permit before I left -- but I was SUPER busy at the time and did not have the time to think of it... Worth it -- only 1,000 Baht...

Here's how I figured it out... The Immigration Dept actually has a 24 hour call in service that is very helpful... Got my GF on the line and we got a good service rep who knew what to do... They even answer the line on Thai holidays -- AMAZING!

USE form DTAW MAW 86 at Immigration to CONVERT your Tourist visa to a Non-Immigrant B Visa... My used Non-Immigrant B Visa was still "fresh" in that I bought it in May in Los Angeles at the Thai Consulate there... I had the receipt for the same item, too.

So, filled out the form at Immigration, provided supporting documents, new picture and 2,000 Baht to make the conversion... Now have a Non-Immigrant B Visa that is good until October...

Already been to Labor Ministry last week... OK with Work Permit now. Will be issued later this week...

Thanks for all the help...

Cheers,

:jap:

Hello Everyone and happy holiday,

Is there a way to renew / re-issue a Non Immigrant B visa IN BANGKOK -- WITHOUT leaving Thailand???

Here's my story... I am a USA citizen teaching at a "famous" Thai high school in central Bangkok. In May, I got a Single Entry Non Immigrant B visa at the Thai consulate in Los Angeles. (Yes, I asked for a multiple entry visa, but at the LA consulate, they said the Thai law has recently changed and they only issue Single Entry Non Imm B visas for schools where minors are taught - new Thai immigration law - how convenient...)

I left USA on May 15, arrived in BKK on May 16th and expected to start teaching on May 17th... With the Red Shirt crisis, school started 2 weeks late on May 31st...

Since May 31, I have worked dutifully for this school (along with other Farang English teachers waiting for the School administrators to help finalize our work permit -- yes, the school administrators dragged their feet due to their confusion and disorganization... Yes, a "typical" Thai situation, I know...

On July 8th, I had to leave Thailand to go back to the USA for family emergency... So in leaving Thailand, I USED my Single Entry Non Immigrant B visa... I informed my employer that I would likely be out of Thailand for a few days... Luckily, the family emergency has stabilized...

I returned to Thailand on July 12th and entered on a TOURIST visa... Last Friday, I tried to apply for Work Permit -- at Ministry of Labor -- and they said "no can do" because Non Immigrant B Visa has been used and I am on a tourist visa now...

Talked with Immigration and they said I had to leave Thailand and apply for a new Non Immigrant B Visa...

My question is: "Is there a way to renew / re-issue a Non Imm B in Bangkok -- WITHOUT leaving Thailand???"

I am on a small salary at my current school and cannot afford to fly to Laos or Cambodia or wherever to get this paperwork done... To me, it seems like this paperwork could be done in Bangkok... The school says they will arrange for the proper paperwork... (The Thai admin at the school are slow but they can see the urgency in my situation -- And, other Farang teachers at this same school have other similar but unrelated visa problems -- mostly due to the school's slowness, inefficiency and ignorance in changes in Thai immigration and labor law...)

Any suggestions from anyone knowledgeable about this kind of situation? (I will be asking a Thai friend to call Immigration tomorrow when their offices re-open after the long weekend.)

If I do have to leave the country, where do people suggest as being most economical and efficient???

All the best and many, many thanks for any help...

dseawarrior

:jap:

I can understand the Govt's restraint over the last few days/weeks not wanting to be accused of jumping the gun during the protests, and will wholeheartedly agree Abhisit's a pretty sharp cookie, mostly allowing the red clowns to play into his hands, certainly as far as the history books will assuredly agree later. As many others have stated, even on this topic, his reforms and improvements in structure have been overshadowed by these thuggish idiots, dam-n shame. At the same time we've now unrest in the provinces, in my humble opinion purely because he allowed them the time to retreat & regroup in their home towns, I for one am very worried indeed this latest unrest may take quite a while longer to stamp out?

Unsure about you other ex-pats in the tourism game, but our numbers are well down since these clots began their unethical, unwarranted (now obviously ineffective), led by the incapable and therefore quite frankly pointless; so-called 'class struggle' for the one against the many? Makes me sick it does, the ramifications of these selfish, cowardly & stupid acts will reverberate long after the troubles themselves die down. A crying shame so many allowed themselves to be duped AGAIN after Thaksin had already stolen billions from each & every Thai's own pocket with his swindling ways. Never mind the many other abuses of power...

They always say a country gets the leader it deserves?

I don't believe the Thais deserved this little lot, foisted on them by a megalomaniac's lust for power! Pioneered by the greedy & assisted by the uninformed. Abhisit, highly (and appropriately awarded too, not with some bought on-line degrees, lol! You couldn't POSSIBLY earn any kind of degree honestly with Thaksin's garbled/mangled English skills!! Could you??) educated and reasonable though he is, should have acted more quickly, his only mistake thus far IMHO. Too many on TV here alone calling him weak & worse, consider this; with his background and therefore inherent sensibilities, knowledge of the global scheme included, he really is Thailand's last, best hope. Worried now? Like it or not this country needs an honest, decent & upstanding leader demonstrating the wherewithal to make it as a world player. Alternatively a xenophobe only out to line his own pockets? Jeez, it really IS that simple folks, or are some of you honestly that misinformed?!?! And still wondering WHY the Baht stays so strong on the world stage? Duh...* The current PM will indeed shine once the Red Lights have been extinguished, mark my words.

My best wishes to Thailand and her good people, praying for an end to this fiasco before too much longer. I for one am looking forward to greeting our guests with a smile & relaxed attitude come next touring season, ready once again to display with pride some of the wonders that are Thailand's alone. Could quite possibly become more than just a little cynical if these flaming red idiots continue to shoot themselves in the foot with such spectacular aplomb, lol!!

Me, I'll just stay here - 9yrs & counting, enjoying the good weather & company, never forgetting; wealth is only an illusion created by those who want you to buy something off them! Enjoy what you have over here folks, worth it's weight in gold.

*Yes, of course I'm fully aware there's more to the Baht's current strength than purely Abhisit at the helm, but that's for a different thread. However, it still stands as a poignant reminder that the country isn't disappearing down the tubes as the naysayers would have us believe.

Exellent post thanks!

I second that!

Great post! Many thanks!

anyway back to slangy stuff, you guys ever hear เสี่ยวจ๊าบลาว ? Kinda like saying someone is not cool, their style is LAO..

Not that particular phrase. But calling something Lao, in Thai, is a bit insulting . . . for example:

หน้าดูลาวมากเลย (his face is ugly like a Laotian)

นั่นคือลาวเลย (thats sooooo Lao)

อย่าทำแบบลาวว่ะ (don't be so f'ing Lao, ok?)

(I made up those examples on the spot, so perhaps a grammatical mistake or two, but you get the idea)

ps - In the first example, if I swap Lao for Korean, it'd be taken as a huge compliment.

Perhaps หน้าลาว(มาก), โคตรลาว, หน้าเสี่ยว

However, I would not use these terms as they are degrading to the wonderful Lao -- and Isaan -- people. (The reference is not only limited to Laotians.) And Thai superiority complex hardly needs more encouragement.

Last year I was on the selection committee and interviewed Thai youth candidates to join a youth cross-cultural exchange program (joined by selected youths from 10 SEA countries). One of the questions I asked was on this kind of reference (as successful candidates will inevitably mingle with Lao youth). The answers were interesting.

Excellent post and spot on insight regarding how some (many? most?) Thais regard Lao and kon baan-awk (folks who they think lack big city sophistication, etc.)...

Great website you have there, too! Many thanks!

D

Long Live Kakki, You are the best and you will be best... God is with you he will help you out. let those barking dogs bark, they will soon die barking...

not Takki

not Kakki

more like...

Shakey Viagra

I have become fluent in Thai much faster than most folks because I understand the linguistic and developmental underpinnings of language acquisition to a high degree.

Wow!!

Care to share?

That would be far more germane to this discussion than Sofwaters obsession (sorry, honey!) with Lanta et al.

55555... I tend to agree... It is easy to lecture endlessly on this topic, but I will try to keep my experiences, comments and tips short and succinct.

First, sorry to be slow in my response to this topic -- I subscribed to updates via email to this topic but that function apparently is not working at present... I am responding to your post 9 days after you posted...

IMMERSION... IMMERSION... IMMERSION...

Second, as SW guessed, I am a specialist in my field where there are no Thai personnel equivalents to my skills, education and experience... So Chula U. got a very "very good deal" in hiring me. I also got a "good deal" in that I was further immersed in Thai language and culture to a very high level -- a very unusual experience for a Farang -- I am the only Farang that I know of who has had a similar experience... If you can arrange a similar experience for yourself, I highly recommend it ~ but at the same time such a position is not easy to secure or to maintain... There are vast differences between expectations of Thai and Western university level academic positions... One of the things that I liked about Thai "academia" was the high level of social interaction ~ at the same time, this high level of social interaction can also be very "stifling" if one likes to have their own space and follow their own "drummer." There is a huge expectation for social reciprocity (including excessive work hours including socializing with work peers beyond normal hours even including vacation time, etc.). Frankly, I like to have my vacation time and personal time to myself as much as possible ~ but Thai academic peers have an expectation that "we are all family" so why not want to be together all the time??? To be honest, I don't enjoy being with my own family of origin all the time (one of the reasons that Farang folks individuate more than Thai folks from their families of origin). Personal space is very important to me (especially vacation time) and this concept is yet to truly emerge in Thai society... This interaction is a double-edged sword ~ now that I am out of that intensive Thai academic environment, I do miss it ~ to a certain extent....

Third, back to the question by "dippytart." "I understand the linguistic and developmental underpinnings of language acquisition to a high degree." Care to share? ...Big question and big topic for sure...

A) Much depends on your own understanding of your own skills in "learning how to learn" for yourself... That is, are you aware of your own learning "style"? Do you know how you learn fastest/ easiest in most subjects? Are you a visual or auditory or kinesthetic learner, or what kind or combination thereof? What is your own level of fluency in your mother tongue? Have you studied other languages and how has your success been for those other languages? What emotional connections have you made in your language studies? All of these factors interact within an individual level -- so individualized language learning programs will TRY to consider these different factors -- but as an adult, it is up to you to monitor and guide your own learning... You KNOW when you "get it" and you should also know when "you don't get it." If you are not sure, that is a tip that you need to review that same material again -- maybe in a different way... Seek out help frequently, but remember you are your own master as you move towards language mastery... No one "program" is going to do it for you... In answer to SW, I have NOT been in the AUA program NOR any other formal Thai language learning program in Thailand. I am sure that they all offer good techniques, activities and exercises, but I have created my own environments for learning and that has worked best for me... Yes, quite natural for me...

The answers you provide for yourself to part A) will help to guide you in your language studies... For myself, I have had high success in English (my mother tongue), and I have also studied, Spanish, Latin, German and Swedish to and beyond the university level. I am a polyglot and I have applied my successes in my other languages to my studies of Thai... I KNOW that I am an auditory and musical learner, who enjoys learning practically and passionately. Like learning how to play guitar or sing Jazz -- I enjoy learning how to express myself but also how to listen and repeat what I hear others (e.g., language speakers or musicians) are "saying." I have a very good "ear" -- that my be genetic -- but that is also a skill that I have practiced and developed...

C) When I advise Thai speakers on how to improve their English listening and repeating skills, I say: "Faang leh puut muen nok" = "Listen and speak like a bird." (do not "think too much" but repeat like a "bird"...) This is very important from my perspective... It is very important to listen carefully and repeat identically... In the beginning, it is very hard to accurately repeat the Thai phonemes (sounds) the same as a Thai speaker... You need a good teacher who has lots of patience and you must have lots of patience, too! And, repeated listening and repeating speaking along with Thai language tapes / CDs/ TV/ radio/ music is ESSENTIAL... There are no "shortcuts" -- this takes THOUSANDS of HOURS of listening and repeating... It is not particularly hard, but discipline, diligence and accuracy are needed... A few years ago, I spent many hundreds of hours listening and repeating the tape series for "Thai for Lovers" and "Thai for Beginners/ Intermediate Learners/ Advance Learners" (see Benjawan Poomsan Becker (now Terlecky) et al). It is a good audio tape series for the Thai portion... I listened to those tapes for more than a year while I commuted to and from work... I viewed it almost as a musical exercise in repeating for precision, tone, accuracy for the whole phrase and for individual consonants and vowels...

D) By the way, years ago I took two graduate courses in Linguistics and this gave me the tools via an IPA phonetic alphabet to break down Thai sounds so that they could be "parsed" and intelligible for me -- I have a rather accurate IPA writing system that I use for myself when I write down a new Thai word that I have not heard before... All of these studies I basically did on my own without direct supervision of a Thai teacher... If I was not sure of my accuracy, I would repeat the tape over and over until I mastered that tape... Then I felt I could move on to the "next level."

[The process that I describe above is basically what toddlers & preschoolers of all languages do "naturally" while they begin to master the sound system of their native language and learn the "accent" of their native language... Listen and repeat like a bird -- there is no replacement for that -- until you are confident of your mastery in that language -- you will know when you are reaching mastery because people will understand what you are saying... It is also OK if you speak "wrong" as long as you are open to being taught by your friends and acquaintances in Thai (or whatever new language you are practicing).] And as long as you encourage Thai speakers to correct you whenever needed... Do NOT worry about making mistakes -- that IS how we truly learn!!!

AND MORE IMMERSION:

The first year that I lived and worked in Thailand (8/2004 - 8/2005), I intentionally placed myself in an immersed language setting. I moved into a 100% Thai neighborhood (I avoided Farang friends during this time -- to avoid relying on English for communication...) Yes, give up on your Farang friends for a while if you can... ;-). I shopped at the local Thai market and local Thai businesses. I made many Thai friends. I ASKED QUESTIONS ALL THE TIME: "What is this? What is that? etc." I only listened to Thai TV and radio... I turned on Thai TV first thing in the morning and listened to the news, etc., and then went to work... When I returned home in the evening, I turned on the TV and listened to that until I fell asleep a few hours later... With this approach, I amassed about 4-5 hours a day of listening to Thai mass media X 365 = ~ 1,865 hours per year of semi-active listening for the gist of the story... At first this was very frustrating but I was patient with the fact I could not expect myself to understand every word -- but my progress was cumulative with time... During lunch, I sought out my Thai coworkers and listened to their stories and talked and ate with them...

At the same time during that year, I had two Thai girlfriends in succession... The first GF spoke some English, but soon we switched over to nearly 100% Thai ~ this frustrated her because she wanted to improve her English ~ but I more or less insisted that we speak Thai... (Yes, I am quite stubborn when I have a goal...) And, of course, I carried a dictionary with me at all times!!! REALLY!!! This is also essential as you begin to internalize your new language skills... That relationship ended after about 5 months... And then, I met another nice Thai lady who spoke NO ENGLISH at ALL! With the basic Thai I had learned already, my new GF and I spoke ONLY Thai together... This method allowed me to gain even more time practicing Thai every day ~ 4 hours per day talking with GF X 365 = 1460 hours per year...

As you can see, the thousands of hours really start to add up 1865 + 1460 = ~ 3,325 hours of Thai practice in that year alone... To add "excitement" (passion) to my language learning process, I also bought and drove an old car -- which required frequent repairs by local mechanics... This gave me deep experience in the "auto world" in Thailand for repairs but also for making trips and negotiating with locals for directions and also dealing with Thai police -- all of which was also invaluable for improving my Thai fluency...

For that year, it turned out that my second Thai GF was a "hilltribe" Thai who did not have proper Thai ID (mai mee baht bra-cha-chon Thai) and I hoped that we could fix this problem by working with the local bureaucrats at her amphur... (LONG story on that...) That experience (which elapsed over about 2 years) taught me greatly about Thai bureaucracy, Thai government, Thai lawyers and Thai "rigidness" about who are "true Thais" and not "true Thais." Sadly, I had to abandon that relationship because with inadequate Thai identification papers, that lady would never be able to travel outside of Thailand... Yes, there many hundreds of thousands of Thai people who do not have adequate documentation -- so they are not "true Thais" in the eyes of the Thai government... That is a truly sad story for many "Thai people" in Thailand... See that in other posts... Thai citizenry, Tabien baan, etc...

In Spring 2006, I met some new Thai friends who worked with Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok. At that point, I was ready to learn a more "professional" level of Thai language skills... For almost 3 years, I dated a Chula U. ajarn who helped me to become even more proficient in my Thai language skills, politeness and cultural awareness... Much of this learning came out of the natural friendship and fun that comes with new friends and a new girlfriend... As this relationship and process unfolded, my Thai became more fluent all the time...

From end of 2007 to the end of 2008, I worked as an active lecturer in my field at Chula U... As I began teaching my courses, I quickly found out that my students preferred my teaching in Thai over my teaching in English (hey, most young Thais study English in school but English is not a language that they use every day to converse and study...), so it was MUCH easier to teach and hold discussions in Thai as the language of instruction (Yes, I did give my Chula nisit / students readings in English but the discussion was always in Thai).

As you might guess, my Thai improved greatly during my year of teaching at Chula... EVERY Thai person speaks with their own accent and many young Thai university students speak in very quiet (low volume) respectful Thai that varies in accent based on where they grew up and their experience with middle Thai (Bangkok Thai AKA "passa glaang")... Listening and talking with hundreds of different Thais speakers on a WIDE VARIETY of TOPICS greatly improved my daily language skills...

During the same time, I was involved with several research committees and in developing a new international center for Chula U. These discussions with my Chula U. colleagues were ALWAYS in Thai... I also advised a number of students about their masters' levels theses -- again, in Thai... Of course, I also maintained my friendships with my GF and other Thai friends at the same time... All of these activities reinforced and extended my Thai language and cultural skills...

You can start to imagine how intense this level of IMMERSION has really been for me if you think about it... Just for the 2007 to 2008 year, I probably accrued 16 X 365 = ~ 5,840 hours of Thai practice and study just for that year... Of course, the level of intensity varies from activity to activity... But I highly recommend teaching the subject matter of your field in Thai ~ not many better ways to improve your own Thai ~ chai mai krab??? Oh, by the way, I almost forgot that I _often_ fell asleep in my room with my TV on ~ yet again adding hundreds more hours of passive study of Thai language...

So, in summary, if I include all extraneous studies and conversations, etc., I have probably accrued about 15,000 HOURS of Thai study and conversation to date since I first visited Thailand in 2002... Most Farang have not yet accrued 10% of that same amount of study time using true immersion methods... I am not criticizing most Farang, the reality is that most Farang do not have the time or the interest to study Thai so deeply... A SMALL percentage of Farang DO invest this LARGE amount of time and those Farang DO reap the benefits and rewards of learning Thai language, Thai culture and Thai people at a very deep level...

Please feel free to PM me if you have specific questions. This may be my last post on this particular string because it seems that other folks have already exhaustively discussed other methods...

As you can see, gaining fluency with Thai language, Thai people and Thailand is very much an individual journey... Thanks for reading and listening...

And, keep in mind that you will be creating your OWN version of Thai language for YOURSELF... Like playing a musical instrument with fluency and dexterity, you will learn to improvise best by playing with other people... It is very much like JAZZ!!!

Good luck to everyone for all of your Thai studies... AND YES, I AM _STILL_ LEARNING! ;-)

Chok dee na krab!

Last year, I taught 6 classes at Chula in my field using THAI as the language of instruction (believe me, it was too slow to use English ~ much easier to use Thai to increase class discussion...)

What field is that?

I was under the impression that the only foreign instructors at Chula were those teaching English or those teaching subject fields in international programs (in which case they are supposed to teach in English not Thai)?

Your "impression" is wrong on this particular issue with this particular person. Any department/ school at Chula (or any other university for that matter) can hire foreigners in whatever subject -- as long as that person is qualified. I am very well-qualified as a highly experienced school and educational psychologist. I earned my masters and Ph.D. at U.C. Berkeley -- quite a few years ago. I have become fluent in Thai much faster than most folks because I understand the linguistic and developmental underpinnings of language acquisition to a high degree. Language acquisition and fluency varies greatly by person due to individual differences, abilities and experience -- among many other factors that have been partially touched upon in this forum...

I successfully taught six courses – in Thai and supplementing with English if needed: A) Psychological Tests for Early Identification of Exceptional Children; Educational Psychology and Learner Development; C) Introduction to Psycho-Educational Assessment: Measurement and Test Construction; D) Psychology of Teaching Exceptional Children; E) Theories and Techniques of Counseling for Guidance; and, F) Introduction to Children with Emotional and Social Disorders. I also co-taught a graduate seminar on personality assessment for PhD students in education. I was also involved in a number of committees and helped to co-found a new center where the language was Thai was the primary language for discussion...

For the interviewing process for this position, I gave my job talk in Thai.

I am not "a typical farang" teaching English in Thailand at this stage. I have been there, done that and moved on to the next level...

Feel free to PM me if you need more details. I am happy to explain you my duties and give a summary of the subjects in Thai if you like.

As you may ascertain, I am not a "wannabe" Thai speaker. I am a Thai speaker.

Enjoy & kaw hai chok dee duay na krab,

@LantaSchool

Thanks for this nice summary, and I don’t wish to unduly criticise what seems a well-intentioned post; however, there are a couple of myths here about the psychology of language acquisition and about the Thai language I should like to point out for those just starting out and choosing a language school.

Point 5 about Thai being a ‘high-context’ language seems right enough, but it’s not quite accurate to say Thais cannot use ‘tone’ the way other languages do. Thai is ‘tonal’, but the word ‘tone’ has a very specific, and quite limited application in reference to Thai. Like English, Thai speakers can and do use intonation, as well as vary stress, pitch, volume and tempo (all of which may generally, if inaccurately, be connoted by the word English word ‘tone’ in the wider sense) to reflect emotions. The sound of an angry voice, to take a blunt example, can be similarly recognised in both Thai and English by a speakers’ intonation, stress, volume and so on even if one has no knowledge or understanding of the vocabulary. The idea that because Thai is a ‘tonal’ language, emotions can only be understood in context is, at best, a bit of an over-simplification. Switch on channel 3, close your eyes, and even a beginner will be able to tell the differene between two lovers smooching and two 'ladies' cat fighting!

Points 1 and 2 are more of a worry in terms of misleading new language learners. I agree physical activities can make language learning fun and interesting and can help to cognitively cement new vocabulary. However, that is not to say that this is i. the only way or ii. the best way to learn a language. People respond positively to different kinds of teaching methods. Personally, I would not enjoy going to a class where a teacher tried to make me engage in “child-like” learning games. To imply that people who share my aversion to this kind of 'role play' are reducing their chances of successfully acquiring a new language is, at best, misleading.

It is also manifestly false that learning from a vocab list will condemn you to translation as stated in point 2. I’d hazard a guess that most of those reading this post who have picked up Thai as a second language learned ห้วเราะ in just that way and can use it, and much other vocab, quite reflexively. Whether someone translates before parsing meaning has nothing to do with how they learned words but with the frequency in which they meet and use those expresssions.

Finally, if you're choosing a school for the first time, please beware the BS about 'natural learning'. Despite what a lot of ‘quick-fix’ language schools say to generate business (i’m not suggesting this about Lanta, i don’t know anything about them, my point is general), there is NO valid research that shows adults can learn a language like a child.

Our cognitive abilities are utterly unalike, not least because children learn a language while discovering the world, developing social interaction skills and expanding their cognitive and conceptual abilities. Language plays an essential role in their psychological development. They are hard-wiring their brains through language as they physically and psychologically mature. For adults, this process has already taken place, which means adult language learns have always to deal with interference from their native language and the habitual hard-wiring of their brain. This point is so widely accepted in academic circles, its barely credible that so many schools get away with perpetuating the "learn naturally like a child" myth. Of course, it sells seats, but I would strongly advise anyone looking for a good school to avoid this kind of charlatanism (indeed, it would be interesting to hear from any of the more advanced non-native speakers of Thai who populate this site whether ANY of them had learned 'naturally like a child' - i'm betting my rather inedible hat that the number is absolute zero!)

All that said, once again, I do think you made a nice summary of some points worth sharing.

SoftWater makes some interesting points...

I disagree with the ideas about the brain's "hard wiring." Sure, that is true to a point, but SoftWater overgeneralizes...

More and more the neuroscientists agree that people's brains are much more plastic than many people think...

Think brain plasticity and lifelong learning...

Once "commonly accepted" ideas of learning and the brain development have been soundly rejected. Take the examples of stroke patients who suddenly find that they have "new interests and emerging skills" that they "never" considered before the brain injury of the stroke...

Much depends on many "soft factors" such as nutrition, exercise, social support, friends, varied stimulation, personal attitudes about learning and reinforcement of learning progress...

Sure "book learning" is helpful and necessary but social and natural reinforcement is essential too...

Think broadly about how you learn and what creates success for you as a learner ~ this varies greatly among individuals... (read this sentence again! ;-)

Kid gwaang gwaang ~ mai dong kid kaep!

Think broadly ~ don't think narrowly!

Good luck to everyone with their studies ~ a beginner's mind can be very helpful ~ nothing about these approaches is "the best" ~ what matters is what works best for you ~ and even that can and will change with time...

Holy cow!

Macwalen, every post you make is like watching you put another nail in your own coffin.

There is nothing more frustrating than having the "management" attempt to put the blame back on the person making critical remarks.

Regarding the teachers. I have not been in the class and I am not able to exactly picture what it looked like but you were the only person who complained. I have spoken with both teachers and perhaps you overreacted a little. They are actually well trained. As a matter of fact I train teachers on a regular basis.

"I wasn't in the class, so I don't know what is really going on (but that won't stop me from proceeding as if I had been), but no one else complained so you must be the troublemaker and the teachers, whom I train my wonderful self regularly, make it out that YOU were the problem and were overreacting."

And then a litany of defensive posts.

I thought my years in management school were more or less exercises in common sense, but you take the cake. You should assume the student is right and make every effort to not only make things right for him, but for others who glean information from these exchanges as well.

Looking over your posts and your tenor, I wouldn't come near your school. (And you will probably reply in the vein of, "Great, we don't want a student like you anyway!")

Tuktong na krab!!! (That's right!!!)

Mai dong yung gab rongrien muen nee krab... (Don't get involved with a school like this... )

Kao gamlang ateebai mag gern bai (He is explaining too much )

~ sadaeng waa kao mai sonjai nakrien kid yang rai.... ( ~ showing that he is not interested in what student/s think about this... )

Hen duay mai krab? (Do you see the same? Do you agree? ;-)

Kaw hai chok dee rongrien nee... (May this school have good luck... )

Kao dong mee chok dee nae nawn! (They should definitely need good luck!)

I wasn't so impressed with Baan Phasaa Thai but maybe it was my teacher. I think they covered a lot of material but didn't really make me work at it. Also spoke English to me too much.

I have had 1:1 at Berlitz for about 7 months and like that. So far all conversation, no reading & writing. I'd say the teacher speaks Thai to me 99% of the time. She just forces me to talk, talk and talk in Thai adding words and grammar as we go along. I consider myself a slow learner for languages but do get a few complements on my Thai, including accent, and I'll have to give all that credit to my teacher and the Berlitz method. Downside: expensive. (they have a web site)

Do think I need to bear down on the reading & writing and now sure how I will approach that. I another 1:1 teacher my company provides and she introduces some (forget the name of that school as she comes to me). Some of the software is good from drilling on some of this.

I thought about a private tutor for just conversation. Ended up searching on the Thailovelinks web site and have made some friends that like to speak Thai with me. The best seem to be 20’s college educated so they have the book English fresh in their minds but haven’t had work experience in an multi-national or situation where they are confident English speakers. I’ve found a few who are fairly natural teachers – know when to correct and when to just let me rattle on, have an ear to understand, etc. That has been a win-win for both of us. We have some fun, go do things, have simple conversations, I of course pick up the tab but it’s cheaper than a teacher most times while being fun and natural. My experience is that if someone has strong English skills the conversation just ends up in English too much and likewise if they don’ speak any English it’s hard for them to coach me.

Good luck,

Good strategies ~ I agree ~ making friends and using Thai in "natural" settings is vital... I have had a lot of success with similar methods... You'd be surprised how much Thai I have via getting nice chatty massages, too...

For a year, I lived in a smallish Thai village in Chiang Mai where I was the only farang. And when I went shopping at the local market, chatted with neighbors or talked with my girlfriend I ONLY USED THAI ~ LOTS OF WORK looking up things in the dictionary at first ~ but the time gives dividends and is like "money in the bank" for language training...

To converse at normal speed, you must immerse yourself on many levels... Friends, locals, neighbors, TV, radio, MUSIC is GREAT!!!

At my home, I did not get cable and only listened to broadcast THAI TV ALL THE TIME I WAS AT HOME ~ even fell asleep to Thai TV ~ that way I could rack up maybe 4-5 hours a night of listening to THAI TV EVERY DAY! At first (1st month), it gave me a headache, but soon (maybe 3 months) I was understanding more and more...

After 10 months, I felt I had a LOT of good listening comprehension at normal speed and then that helped my speaking skills and speed, too...

The keys are repetition, self study and immersion with the Thai media and your Thai friends ~ variety is important!

Last year, I taught 6 classes at Chula in my field using THAI as the language of instruction (believe me, it was too slow to use English ~ much easier to use Thai to increase class discussion...) All department meetings were in Thai, too. As well as all conferences, too...

So, now, my spoken Thai is at a rather high conversational level and high for comprehension, too... But, it is a constant process of improving learning and understanding...

...Just think of how long you have been studying English to understand this email at a high level???

Same same for Thai ~ you must amass THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF ACTIVE AND PASSIVE LISTENING AND TALKING...

Now, I am starting to read and write in Thai at a much higher level, but it will be more years before I can say I am a really fluent reader or writer...

I am also a musician and that helps greatly to hear the subtleties of Thai and its tones....

Remember, you are your own best teacher and you know what you want and need to learn at what time is right for you...

Enjoy the journey...

Kaw hai mee chok dee na krab,

Wow...!

ThaiVisa is a great source for information about Thailand but I've never felt compelled to create an account and offer my opinion on anything... Until now.

Todd (...in answer to a previous posters question regarding whether this individual is from the U.S or not; in over 44 years I've yet to meet a Brit named Todd, but I've met a few americans who were)... So.... Todd, I sincerely hope that you display better judgement when you are 'doing' your high end security, protection and guarding than you did by submitting this post.

I have had the sad misfortune to have met a number of individuals over the past 6 years in the middle east who displayed a similar 'I'm going to make a fortune' attitude, and regardless of the fact that they were (to my utter astonishment) in positions of grave responsibility, I can honestly say that I wouldn't trust them to run a security detail at Tescos.

Unfortunately, the U.S. (and the brits also it has to be said, but to a lesser extent) has made a habit of giving high level security clearances to individuals who are woefully unqualified to do the kind of work that Todd has so modestly referred to in his post. This unfortunately leads to a perception amongst the uninitiated that ALL those who work in this field have an attitude similar to that held by Todd.

I'd just like to redress the balance somewhat and say that we are not all Walter Mitty characters... But thanks for reinforcing the stereotype Todd... Pity your clients haven't had an opportunity to read your post.... If you were employed by me I would pull the plug immediately.

Apologies for bringing the mood down....keep smiling Thailand...

Geng jaang!

Thanks MG for re-inserting some honest reality for the "todd"s and the "todd wanna-be's" out there...

...good riddance to bad rubbish...

I guess this represents as good a reason as any, not to shop in King Power, EVER! Who wants to run the risk of

a scam like this one. What a lowbrow operation. I give the Danes alot of credit for speaking out. Maybe the Thai

authorities will be awakened by this one. The police in this country are perhaps the most corrupt, and least

competent of any group or organization you will run into here. Stay clear of the police, under all circumstances.

The general rule of thumb here is that if a foreigner has ANY interaction here, with the police, it will not turn

out well for them. The police in Thailand do very little law enforcement. It is all about income padding, and

income supplement. It is rarely about crime solving. They are a bankrupt, corrupt, illicit crime syndicate. Not

a law enforcement organization.

"Tuktong na krab!"

"Indubitably!"

"Tu tienes razon!"

"Du har raet!"

"Du hast rechtung!"

"Correcto!"

Spread the word...

Sad very sad.

I made a bus trip to Mai Sai last week. Across the isle sat two cute Thai ladies. They giggled at me as I put

on my seat belt. I just smiled. I looked around and NO one had a seat belt on.

I know seat belts are not going to save everyone but I wonder how many had their belt on during this deadly crash and how many it MIGHT have saved if they would have been buckled up?

I completely agree...

The Thai people need an intensive and repeated public education campaign regarding the use of seat belts and helmets (for motorcycles)... Remember his majesty speaking about measures to prevent hearing loss and deafness in the Thai public?

Even though Thai law requires seatbelt and helmet compliance for safety, the average Thai person routinely ignores safety and prevention... And we know how effective the boys in brown are at this kind of law enforcement... ;-)

Please, educate your friends and family about this, too! Be the model of intelligent behavior and teach friends and family about the physics of "sudden stops" in vehicle collisions...

Thais often laugh and say "mai ben rai" -- but I believe many of these deaths and injuries could have been prevented...

"Sai kem-kat duay krab!"

Wear your seatbelt too, krab!

Guide to business in Thailand :

1.Make a set of rules.

2.Market to people.

3.Charge a one-time fee.

4.Revoke priviledges.

5.Blame the customer.

6.Repeat.

:D

Time to burn it !

(with the pope inside maybe ?)

;-)

:D

Viper why the hel_l dont you just get your visa from the Hull consulate in the UK, loads of threads on here or google it. loads cheaper and fully legal.

That company is feeding you horse shit, about no 3 monthly visa runs and the 10 year bit.

but hey its up to you mate. here i even got the website for ya. www.thaiconsul-uk.com.

Where do i send my invoice

Allan

To be honest with you mate it all sounds a bit iffy and stinks to high heaven as nobody seems to know what they are

doing in Thailand. There is no REAL system and thats a sure reflection of the whole Thai economy. The infrastructure is

absolutely in tatters & basically no one gives 2 shits about anything. My passports always goes to hull for stamping and I pay

a company to arrange the relevant paper work for a non-imm B visa for 1 years multi even if im working there or not. I pay 300 pound British for the whole package.

Hey,

In a way, both Viper and thaicbr are both right.

Thailand has long had (at least) two economies...

The legitimate legal economy and then the quasi-legitimate, quasi-legal economy...

Many Thais with low education get confused about the two and assume that they are all one and the same...

But, real, legitimate businesses do follow the rules in Thailand and yes, some of the paperwork is annoying but not especially so...

I have worked for two different legitimate businesses in the LOS -- an international school and a major public university -- they took care of all the work permit paperwork and related issues -- but they took extra measures to make sure that they were not part of the Tea Money system (because there is a lot of overlap and corruption even in the legitimate system...)

Makes your head spin, eh?

I recommend due diligence and legality with whatever business you are dealing with... Especially with your own business... That is truly up to you... Try your best to be on the right side of the law... Times are changing everywhere -- even in Thailand...

If a deal seems "too good to be true" or "too expensive to be reasonable," it probably is...

Buyer beware,

Caveat emptor,

The fact is

life is cheap here

In Thailand, we believe in vigilante = ศาลเตี้ย

we don't go to the courts of law = ศาลสูง = ศาลชั้นต้น/ศาลอุทธรณ์/ศาลฎีกา

Thai schools of Law are not popular .... just ***nothing at all*** comparing to the school of medicine/bzyness/finanace etc...

In Thailand, we are stupid that we usually classified people into certain classes

# HiSo

# Average

# LoSo

by these criteria : profession/occupation/money & gold/Address and Surname etc...

Trust me we do this more SeRiOuSLy than the westerners do : just ask any of ur Thai friends

Lawyers are considered to be in the Low-to-Average/Moderate class

I am Thai and I DO NOT trust "The police department & Justice system of TH"

If u mess with the Russian Gangs here, it's not da real vigilante hel_l.

But if u're involuntarily on trial / being tried in a Thai court of vigilante, this is the real hel_l.

-------------------------

In Japan ---> drunk driving (Alcohol > 15mg%) = fine 100,000 Yen = fine ~ 950 $US + "1 YEAR IN JAIL"

You have to go to jail for 1 year for drunk driving but NOT EVEN hit somebody

drunk driving + hit a person to death = 15 yrs in jail

In Thailand ---> drunk driving (Alcohol > 50mg%) = fine some little amount of money, you don't go to jail

--------------------------

It's easy to kill someone in Thailand.

crime in Thailand is like an Iceberg --> 90% underwater and unsolved cases

around 10% are solved and in the evening NEWS.

Vigilante rulez

Excellent Post!

Well-explained and clear... Ateebai mawsom dee jing jing

Thank you very much! Kawp khun mag na krab!

the thais are better equipped to survive a recession than westerners pampered by benefit systems , an inflated sense of entitlement , wallowing in self pity and the negative habit of looking for someone else to blame rather than picking themselves up and trying to start again.

thais have the one thing that is missing in the west , support systems based on family.

thais are able to start up small business ventures (market stalls , food stalls , buying and selling etc. ) without the need for compliance with the onerous regulatory requirements and employment regulations that make any small business venture in the west such a headache. i remember after the thai crash in the late nineties , wealthy business people just started having garage sales , started market stalls and just carried on , albeit at a much lower level of affluence than before.

thais have a happy go lucky entrepreneurial spirit and the ability to face hardships with a smile.

the thais may be serial stumblers , but the never seem to fall.

I think you are spot on with your observations there...

Does anyone know of any Thai words that are in general use in the English Language???

I cannot call a Thai friend by his nickname Jiow jiau jeyow. I have to use his given name.

It is supposed to mean 'eagle'. In the same way some Thais cannot say rrr, I cannot say jiaow so it comes out right. it comes out as 'dirt' or something.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=ne...Search&meta=

For example, farang will probably get in the dictionary someday, or would that be falang?

How about Ting Tong? .

John.....

aha. My wife pronounces it Ding Dong!

aha I found one!

bong "water pipe for marijuana," 1960s, U.S. slang, said to have been introduced by Vietnam veterans, from Thai baung, lit. "cylindrical wooden tube." nowadays called the "phelps" tube.

Come to think of it, Thai stick and Thai bud was part of my daily vocabulary many years ago!

Oh, the hazy, lazy good old days.

As qualtrough says, how about Siamese cat?

John.....

nowadays called the "phelps" tube.

I LOVE IT

Terribly sad... in her college room...

God save our kids and punish those bastards... regardless where they're from

Most crimes of passion -- like this sordid type -- are committed by a person that the victim knows... Opportunity, motive, etc...

Is this schmuck in the news really the right guy? I would have to do more research to really believe that...

My condolences to the victim's family. May her soul rest in peace...

Thai security is the pits. Time and time again security guards take a passive role. When the piano teacher was murdered the guard just watched the two men drive off presumably through his check point and without asking any questions.

In my apartment, once when I left the door open of my vacant unit, they reported it on a daily sheet but did not inform me at all, or try to close the door. It was another tenant who came to tell me four days later.

Surely, a girls dorm is one place which should have CCTV's and security. I bet it did have security guards. But in Thailand like many things, its just about presentation. Everyone watches the guards saluting and shouting some kind of allegiance at change of shift and then they just spend their time observing, or sleeping.

It's time security companies were liable to be sued for these kind of things rather than being totally left out of the picture when it comes to blame.

I agree entirely.

RESPONSIBILITY (kwaam-rabpichawb, in Thai) is a concept that is so vastly weak in Thai policing and Thai security... Until these companies (and the University itself) are sued for poor policing, these sad situations will occur again and again...

Still not convinced that Burmese are the guilty ones... The habit of framing up some poor schmuck is commonplace in Thai policing -- especially if the truly responsible party is a son or daughter of a privileged family...

Don't believe everything you see and hear on the news...

Caveat emptor & do your own research...

One of my friend's restaurant staff got it this year here on Samui.

She hadn't left the island in some time, it came here.

So this is not to far off from most any of us.

Had two friends that got it last year here on Samui.

I had two friends get it on Koh Pha Ngan (North of Samui) back in 2002 -- nasty stuff -- they both had to be hospitalized...

Dengue fever is endemic in tropical and subtropical areas... Worldwide.

Public education on mosquito control,

Use repellent and mosquito nets with fans...

City cleanups -- this virus/ mosquito combo thrives in crowded conditions...

But what else to do...?

Dengue has been here for millions of years and is likely to stay...