kawtot

<snip>

As far as latest developments go, my understanding is that CMU is now declaring that a large number of the receipts being presented by students are invalid and refusing to refund money. This info is from e-mails from other students, I decided it wasn't worth pursuing a partial refund on the three months of classes I was cheated out of.

A (trusted) ex-classmate I know spoke with the Director yesterday. He was told that only the carbon-copied (triplicate, each copy a different colour) receipts are valid, and that LICMU didn't have any money to refund via the other receipts because IUS kept it all.

(Yeah, I know... :-)

That TEFLTastic thread is one of the more one-eyed I've encountered in years.

There are procedures for dealing with (alleged) misrepresentation of qualifications, and I don't think we have seen or heard anything on that front. If we do, I expect it would appear in a new thread, and probably not in the CM Forum.

To causally link that allegation to the (again alleged) program underperformance of the former LICMU is at best presumptuous. Was the old LICMU organisation and their service any good? Plenty of students seem to think so. Plenty of others have expressed mild to serious concerns. LICMU management alleged dodgy internal business practices. Well... the organisation is long gone - and it ain't comin' back - so that discussion may be a time-waster. Let's see if it proceeds to court.

To then tar UniTEFL with this ever-so-thinly-bristled brush risks overloading our bandwagon.

This thread is meant to expose what is happening with regard to (1) recompense, and/or (2) programs, for affected Thai Language students. It would seem fair to also include news for the affected CEP and TEFL students.

CMU appears to be open to claims regarding refund of fees for undelivered programs. Has anyone outside of the small claims court contingent, and those who can receive a credit card refund, achieved success? Language, CEP, TEFL? If not the full or pro-rata'd amount, why not?

LICMU has resumed some Thai language classes and associated visa support, and lately students' reviews of same are turning positive.

CMU does not seem to intend to resume CEP. True?

Has LICMU enrolled any of its 'cancelled' TEFL students into their new TEFL Certificate Program?

UniTEFL have offered to train TEFL students affected by the cancelled LICMU program. Has anybody accepted this offer; how did it go?

Christmas ? Stay home, the usual work and fun. I dislike Christmas and I'm not a Christian either so why should I bother..

No offence, bkkcl, but... weird post. Do you suggest the OP cancel their holiday plans? And/or that people of a certain persuasion reconsider their belief system? Whatever, mai bpen rai. Don't know about you, but from this thread readers might get some good ideas for places to visit one day.

We check activity on our Visa card every day on-line. Amazingly, today we discovered a credit issued by the Visa card people for the unused portion of Hubby's CEP. We'd filed a complaint with copies of relevant emails about a month ago. His charge was older than the 120 day limit for contesting a claim, so we weren't very hopeful. He asked just for the unused portion of his program (about 75%) and that's how much was credited to our Visa card account.

So, anyone who hasn't filed with their credit card company because their charge was more than 120 days old should reconsider.

I second this recommendation - have just received refunds for two undelivered courses, for which I paid by credit card 180+ days ago.

Lizard2010:

The English version of that site doesn't work very well.

I've PM'd you the schedule.

sticklee:

This post and others in that thread give information about the Khom Fai launch at Mae Jo.

You can download the events program as a xls file from the link under the picture here: http://www.cmcity.go....php?ann_id=576

It's the municipality government's program, and it's in both Thai and English.

It doesn't include the 10,000 Khom Fai launch on Sat 20th, probably because that's organised by Wat Tudong or Lanna Dhutanka Buddhist Centre.

There are conflicting dates in some other event schedules around the place - eg: according to this spreadsheet the Lantern Procession Contest and the Kid's Contest are not on the 19th, but on the 20th. Confusion may have arisen because this year it's the "19th Yee Peng Lantern Procession Contest". Going by the structure of last year's program, I'm inclined to 'trust' this spreadsheet.

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<br />Bangkok Bank in ksk are great (apart from one snooty femaIe member of staff who aIways seems to be sucking sour pIums..at Ieast whenever shes deaIing with me anyway. )<br /><br />But for internet banking, i prefer Kasikorn Bank. So..i find im using Kbank more because of the convenience of their ibanking system. Their new branch on Nimmenheimen is pretty heIpfuI and friendIy too. BB ibanking just seems archaic in comparison and not as user-friendIy. Not sure if others wouId agree. Maybe just my personaI experience/preference.<br />

<br /><br />Be very carefull of Kasikorn Bank...<br />They have thieves at work there.<br />Someone there took 250,000 baht of mine  <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

@LJW

Ditto to request by Raiderz4Life for a PM, please. I use various Kasikorn branches in CM and am (was?) planning to funnel a lot through that account in the coming months.

Be very carefull of Kasikorn Bank...

They have thieves at work there.

Someone there took 250,000 baht of mine

Wow! Can you tell us how it happened, please? And was the money ever returned to you?

Any idea why their web site does not show rates?

Any idea about current rates?

Samplings of class hours/options would be helpful, since one is not moved to go to a place, or even telephone, where such info. is not available on the web. (IMO - could be wrong on this one)

Go to the Pro Language website. On their top menu choose the "courses" dropdown, then "Thai courses" from the submenu. You'll find curriculum, schedules, prices there.

In the first year of the 4-7 hours-per-week-flavoured course Pro covers 4 modules: conversation 1-3, then reading/writing. You can buy a 500B reading/writing supplement at any time and work through that before you start the 4th module.

In out-of-class conversations I've discovered that a couple of staff are active christians, but haven't heard a peep about it during lessons, even when great 'sales and marketing' opportunities arise. I can't find any overtly christian vocabulary in modules 1 to 3 (e.g. worship, pray, church, minister/priest, hellfire and brimstone :-) etc, etc, etc).

The phonetic system at Pro is quite different, and less user-friendly, than the Paiboon system. Paiboon's current (late 2009) English/Thai Script/Thai Sound dictionary is a valuable tool regardless of where you do your basic studies. Once you learn Thai pronunciation and script, though, phonetics are of limited use - its worth the pain of getting past phonetics asap.

The classes at Chiang Mai Pro move along faster than CMU's, possibly because of the class sizes (5 or 6 students). My class spends a lot of time laughing and going (constructively) off-track. Your mileage may vary.

Visa support (for ED extensions) is the usual 2-ish weeks turnaround. I think you can only apply for an initial ED visa outside of Thailand.

LICMU's Thai language classes reinstated.

At least two groups: Tue/Thu and Sat/Sun.

With ED visa support.

Does this mean support for new Ed visas, or reinstatement, if that's possible, of the original Ed visas? Does the student have to commit to a certain number of classes? At what cost? Is Immigration on-board with this?

I read that some of the parties involved in this fiasco are taking CMU to court. Here's a question that can't be answered, but every potential student should consider: If the court case(s) do not go to CMU's liking, will they pull a repeat performance and cancel this new language program and the student's Ed visas?

I don't think LICMU are taking on new students, and since ED visas must be issued outside of Thailand there are probably no new or reinstated ED visas. Somone please correct me if you know otherwise.

I do know returning students who have - this week and last - received ED visa extensions supported by LICMU.

Compared to before 30th Sep: class times and days are limited, you do a couple more hours per week, there are 2-3 times as many students in a class, but (ttbomk) no extra fees.

LICMU's Thai language classes reinstated.

At least two groups: Tue/Thu and Sat/Sun.

With ED visa support.

"...only the management at the CMU LI [were] misusing ED visas." Loaded, I admire your prescience! The investigation hasn't concluded. But the allegations have certainly served their purpose.

Since 30th Sep I know 1 who signed with AUA, 2 who signed with Walen and 5 who signed with Pro. All but one are ex-LICMU. All received 90-day ED visa extensions from Chiang Mai Imm.

I visited UniTEFL earlier this week. They told me that neither of the two former Directors at LICMU (Sansanee and Matt) are associated with their operation, but that the staff, trainers and curriculum have basically been "transplanted". The Office looks like a nice facility. I spoke with the trainer and a couple of students; looked at details of the program. Appears professional and promising.

btw, I have no interest in promoting UniTEFL, but am doing my homework because I'm thinking of taking a TEFL course. Ajarn Kawtot / Kruu Kawtot... now that'd be a laugh!

Reporting back:

Yamaha service centre next to KSK. Visited twice because the problem wasn't fixed the first time. One staff member speaks good English. Charged 750B each for two new rear shocks, not in stock, 3 days wait, plus quoted 8,000B for new mags and tyres, also not in stock.

Yamaha service centre on Ratchadamnoern Rd. No mags in stock and not willing to quote or make an order. This is not a one-off: on previous visits while I was looking to buy a bike they were just as helpful.

Yamaha service centre on Phra Pok Klao Rd. A girl from sales across the road spoke very good English and helped me through the transaction, which involved a whole bunch of questions. Quoted 6,000B for new mags and tyres. They looked at a service issue (which arose after the Yamaha-KSK service, but is not necessarily related) while I wrote down my name and phone number for them, then said "transmission adjustment, no charge". I asked about rear shocks: apparently always in stock and just under 600B each, fitted.

It should be clear to you, dear readers, which service centre I would recommend...

2 + 2 probably equals 4 in this case: the staff at UniTEFL seem to be the same staff that were at CMU TEFL, delivering that same program.

Perhaps drop into their new premises to find out more - odds on you'll end up speaking with someone you already know. That assumes you're in CM and it's convenient, of course.

If anyone has lost interest in this topic... please... stop reading it now, and don't check it again tomorrow, or the next day, etc, etc! When it's done its time it will sink to the bottom and expire naturally, like most other topics here. Meantime its a bit rude to impose your views by asking for it to be forcefully closed.

Certain consulates remain interested - their efforts need to observe correct protocol; these tings take time.

Many individuals, of course, have taken, and continue to take, action. Some of them were inspired by what they read in TV posts.

thaiboy999's post introduced some news only today, on a few fronts. The one that interests me is the letter from Matt Kay suggesting that his organisation is taking this to the court of small claims. That will be interesting to watch :-) Was this letter, or its longer version, actually sent to ex LICMU students?

Edit: original post dropped emoticon and subsequent text. Can't get emoticon back, but fixed the text. dam_n, I must be browsing from the sandbox again.

We keep coming back to this qualifications thing, but I'm not sure its helping students.

Some have tried to discredit Ass. Prof. Rien, others Dr Kay. (For the moment I don't know any better than to use those labels)

Later on we can all say "so what" or "that guy misrepresented his qualification, therefore he must be responsible for everything bad that ever happened", or wherever our opinions take us in between.

Meantime I don't care if Dr Kay is a Mr. But I do care if any of the players misrepresent(ed) things in a way that reduces our chances of fair outcomes from having not recieved what we paid LICMU for.

What's in a name? That which we call uptheos by any other name would smell as sweet.

Is this thread directed at me then?

I knew the discount thing would make me a marked man.

Noticed at last.

@uptheos

I thought it was quite a pleasant reference.

===================================

Plonk any name in there to see my point.

This is one of those topics where the OP is asking the wrong people: if someone chooses to be anonymous, the request in unlikely to change their behaviour and "flush them out". Other posters will either jump on the bandwagon, or take the pyss.

Have a look at psych, particularly group dynamics, to better understand human behaviour in this context.

What's in a name? That which we call uptheos by any other name would smell as sweet.

Hi. My name DaengSuai69 but you can call KawTot.

I m 26 and live my mom in Lamphong.

Work very hard in factory so not have much much time to look kind man.

R u good man? I m good girl. Like music, danse, to singing and reading TV.

I not like to party and no want the LIE!!!

PM me only If you give tru love from the heart.

Bugger... wrong forum... sorry... sorry

I met with one of the teachers yesterday and was told the story below. I can't validate it, but it sounds plausible.

This is one teacher's view and they may be "filling in' some details to make it a complete story. Time will tell...

I received my first email today from CMU, via my teacher. Here it is:

I would strongly caution students against completing this form and offering it up to LICMU.

imho its a scam - apart from all the anomalies already raised by other posters, neither of two teachers nor several of their students I've spoken to in the past 3 days, have sent or recieved it.

Put a hold on the knife, fork and motorbike helmet!!

I just looked at the address that "Matt" emailed me from last night, and it's possible that his mails are being replied to by others.

Mysteriouser and mysteriouser....

ad

The domain teflcmu.com is currently registered to Chiang Mai University Language Institute.

It is probably illegal for someone to impersonate a former employee by sending anything from that former employee's mail account.

However, if you send an email to someone who used to work there (for example: matt(at)teflcmu.com) your email will probably be intercepted by someone else who does work there.

This (alleged) new offer from CMU strikes me as unusual.

If CMU no longer provides ED visa support for ex-IUS students, in a short time none of their students will be in Thailand on ED visas, right?

So why would a student on a tourist, retirement, or other non-ED visa need to satisfiy ED-visa immigration requirements?

And if the student failed to, say, attend 75% of classes, would Immigration cancel their tourist, retirement, or other non-ED visa?

Seems to me that the most important thing for CMU right now is to gather your current contact details.

And another thing: the last time several students with ED-visas entered a CMU office to express their intentions to continue studies, they were given three days notice to leave Thailand.

Think about it...

I think this is supposed to contravene their previous notice of canceling all visas. Presumably, if you continue to study there they will re-new visas that are to expire (and issue new ones to new students). Though they make no representations as to whether they will continue the program indefinitely. Based upon their performance the past month, I would not wager too much in the short/medium term on the profitability of these programs.

Only student visas are affected by attendance requirements.

"

Important: Nothing in the above statement will in any way extend your existing visa expiry date as specified in your passport. If your visa has already expired or is due to expire shortly then you will need to go through the normal immigration procedures in order to extend your stay in Thailand.

"

ttbomk, the vast majority of ED-visa students are on 90-day cycles. Given visa support stopped in early August, by mid November those will all have been up for renewal. I can't see a statement anywhere in this new notice that offers to extend those ED visas.

This (alleged) new offer from CMU strikes me as unusual.

If CMU no longer provides ED visa support for ex-IUS students, in a short time none of their students will be in Thailand on ED visas, right?

So why would a student on a tourist, retirement, or other non-ED visa need to satisfiy ED-visa immigration requirements? (They wouldn't need to)

And if the student failed to, say, attend 75% of classes, would Immigration cancel their tourist, retirement, or other non-ED visa? (Unlikely)

And another thing: the last time several students with ED-visas entered a CMU office to express their intentions to continue studies, they were given three days notice to leave Thailand.

Seems to me that the most important things for LICMU right now are to (1) untie ED visas from the language program and (2) gather your current contact details.

Think about it...