timoclark

Using the word "but" again? I will repeat what I said In a similar thread: “But” is one of the most miserable words in the vocabulary. I don't like violence, but… No one should be killed, but… I love you, but…

I am deeply disheartened to see so many people attempting to reason with the "logic" of the causes for killing a person (in another threads).

Khun Suthin's daughter doesn't know yet that father has died, periodically asks for him.

Heart breaking

Shall I upload pictures of the weapons found in the back of the truck he was on? Some father, indeed.

Either do it or don't do it. Piss or get off the pot.

With an attitude like that, I hope you're not a father.

What about the families of those killed by Red Shirts/Black Shirts, including unarmed soldiers and unarmed protesters, in 2010? I suppose they earn your disdain as well.

I'm pretty sure that IF the Pro democracy lot really wanted to, then the street of Bangkok would be awash with bodies and blood.

Considering the pro democracy protesters are the ones being hit - that is a really odd statement... I have never seen a protest this big (anywhere in the world) and this peaceful - sadly those who want things to remain status quo, who do not want a change for Thailand, anti-reform peoples, is now using bombs (how ever small) and killing sprees to intimidate protesters...

Sorry. perhaps I've missed something. The 'pro-democracy' people are the ones trying to oust a democratically-elected government and then thwart an election? Really? And these same people are holding the ordinary citizens of Bangkok to ransom, ruining the economy. What is pro-democracy about that? And the anti-reform people are those who disagree with an appointed council to run the country. Hmm.

Tell us then, what was "pro-democracy" about the Red Shirts in 2010 holding Bangkok hostage, including all sorts of nefarious violence, from pulling soldiers out of trucks to beat them to death, to invading hospitals and setting up flammable explosive barricades at the emergency entrance, to harrassing those trying to go to their homes which were unfortunately located in the midst of the Red mobs, to burning and looting, to shooting unarmed protesters with RPGs....... what was so "democratic" about that? The constitution you all rant on about was approved by a popular referendum voted on and approved by the people, and your Thaksin wants to shred it because it doesn't suit him. How much did the Reds do to ruin the economy is 2010? Far more than this!

Uark Tak!!! Do you really believe what you are saying? What am I saying, of course you do!

Yingluck has been in Chiang Mai/Lampang this weekend, her home turf, well she is loved and respected.

Welcome Home, and haters be dam'd.

Wow, with that avatar and your generally strident PTP/Thaksin apologism/trollism, and you dare infer lunacy in others? Pot, meet kettle.

No, it is better that it proceeds in her absence. If she were there, it would degenerate into a feral frenzy. I hope the people who do attend are able to come up with some sensible proposals . Thailand runs the risk of being shunned by the international community if the lunacy of the people's committee gets legs

..... and every time Thaksin fields a party, they are dissolved for electoral malfeasance. Even his own handpicked Electoral Commission dissolved his party on such grounds. My guess is that the Dems didn't challenge the vote-buying last time because the economy was still trying to recover from the Reds' "peaceful" burning of Bangkok.

Suthep didn't win. He lost. An election is the last thing he wanted. And he will lose again when February comes and the Thai people show the Democrats again that they don't want them in power.

Suthep can proclaim victory like North Koreas Kim Jong-un but the truth is that he has no power at all, without the army or police behind him, which he doesn't have.

So do you really think that the Thai people want this bunch of thieves voted in again? If (and it's a big if) there will be an election in two months time, Thaksin will not win. During the time up to the election I am sure of a lot of irregularities will show up regarding how the country's finances been managed during the last two year. The people in the north and north-east of Thailand are maybe not as well educated as the Bangkok Thais but they still hate thieves.

That is sound logic indeed considering the "Thaksin clan" has only won like 5 out of the last 7 elections. I am not saying they are right but please examine the facts. Election held later makes this high season possible and defers collateral damage until posted. Name the next PM if you feel the Thaksins will lose.

What an absolute joke. This scheme was never intended to help farmers, just a dangling carrot to get them to vote PTP. It was always intended to enrich Thaksin and his cronies, in that sense the rice scheme, the floodwater scheme, and all his other schemes have worked to perfection. Fact is that Abhisit had a very well functioning subsidies scheme for rice farmers that was less costly, less corrupted, and helped the farmers much more directly. However, the farmers couldn't resist being baited once again by Thaksin. Many Red farmers know this, but they move along helplessly like sheep, not wanting to stand out among their neighbors or catch the notice of the Red village poo yais. The 30B heathcare scheme was never funded by Thaksin's governments, it was left to the hospitals to cover the difference. This has resulted in the consolidation of hospitals into bigger corporations, giving patients less choice.

Tell the farmers who aren't getting paid how well this is working out for them.choice. Unfortunately, the Red village poo yais might not allow them to vote their conscience. Thaksin uses the carrot and the stick to get what he wants.

This scheme is not taking money form the rich and giving it to the poor. It is taking money from every taxpaying resident and giving it to Thaksin and his corrupt cabal.

From your non-answer, I guess your answer is that the deliberate theft of US$10 billion is justified, so long as each farmer gets a few satang in his pocket, if that. I guess it's worth it to destroy the reputation of the Thai rice industry and drive the country deeper into debt, right?

What do you think red supporters? Has Yingluck's government deliberate loss of more than 10 billion US dollars on rice scheme been justified? Bear in mind, they wasted 10 billion USD, not baht, just to stay popular in rural Thailand. How can anyone justifie that? It endangers the whole country's financial stability and the system.

An absolute idiot could run the country that way and win the election. Who is going to make up for more than 10 billion USD lost? By the way, rumour has it that there are 200 billion baht unaccounted for.

The rice scheme was designed to help poor farmers who were being forced to sell their land to the rich and become tenants because they couldn't afford to keep going. The ruling elite rubbed their hands in glee as they bought up even more ethnic Thai owned land. I'm not saying the scheme is not corrupt. I'm not saying it is the most efficient way of taking money from the rich to give to the poor. I'm not saying that some of those administering the scheme don't have their fingers in the till. but it is a scheme. and no government has ever come up with a way to help the rural poor before. If Suthep has a better scheme to help the poor I'd love to hear it. But of course he hasn't. His patrons are very keen to abolish the scheme so that they can get their hands on more of the peasants land.

Yes, there are plenty of MNCs and rich elites funding the Red Shirt terrorists. "Elite" nonsense.

Jackrich, you must be mighty in love with either Mrs. Yingluck or her whole set of ministers, the way you spray bile here on ThaiVisa.

So let's not forget to count into the 95% of the poor, that you mentioned the likes of Taksin Shinawatra, Charoen Siri-something, the liquer-baron (Mekhong, Saengthip (?), Chang beer etc.), who is also among the 10 richest people in Thailand, further on the owner family of the Imperial Department Stores and the likes, they all are part of Thailand's poor and thus helping out the red shirts since many years.

About Bangkok being the ass of Thailand, you should go out and tell that to the public on the street. And then see, what happens. And do remember the old saying (way old than Taksin's invovement in politics, or your being around here): The government is elected upcountry, but it is brought down in Bangkok.

Your last sentence makes sense if you consider that the government is elected by the poor majority and brought down by the rich minority. Thanks for confirming my statements.

Have you been in a position where you had to hire Thais for manual labor? Even and especially for SMEs, whom the deck is stacked against anyway, finding hardworking honest employees among the Thai labor force is damn difficult. I am not talking about exploitation or slave labor, I am talking about people willing to give an honest day's work for their wages. Ask anyone running a small business in Thailand and they will tell you the same thing..... even with the increase in minimum wage, Thaksin has given so many the idea that they just have to wait for the next RS handout and don't have to give a damn about their jobs. This is extremely unfair to the small business owners who work their butts off to build a future for themselves, to be taken advantage of by kindergarteners who think nothing of showing up for work drunk, or not showing up at all, but still expect to get paid. This is not every Thai worker, but it is a great many of them.

Why do businesses have to hire Cambodians or Burmese? You think it's their preference? Often, because of the labor shortage, these foreign workers get paid the same wages as Thai..... finding Thai workers to do these jobs is damn near impossible...... especially when Big Brother is willing to pay them to wear Red and do nothing.

Everybody here needs to do the right thing..... business owners and the workers they employ as well.

Thailand, compared to a lot of other Nations around the World, is still a land of opportunity. If, as a Thai person, you are healthy, don't drink, don't do drugs and don't gamble, chances are, with hard work and a little bit of planning ,you can still get ahead in this Country, no matter who is in power.

A lot of poor people, I see around me, are poor, not because of external circumstances, but rather because of their own actions and reactions to situations.

Whilst this may be true in some cases, I cannot agree. Thailand has pursued a Thai Chinese desire to have agricultural and low income jobs in huge volumes to set the tone for their industry. They have chased the ideals of protected domestic agriculture industry to feather the pockets of a few uber rich famliese and neglected to educate their people so that by now Thailand should not be faced with having 40% of teh population still languishing in agriculture.

By now, Thailand should have moved up the scale and should have on the average a much better qualified level of work force so that they can handle transitioning from being a shrimp or rice export centre to being a technological or manufacturinga and design powerhouse. They have automotive but are basically just an assembly hub not an R+D hub. "I'm all right jack" has come back to haunt Thailand. Chasing short term plaudits like "The largest exporter of rice" has hurt the country in the end because no one bothered to check if that was really the best path for the country.

I look at town that I was living in and it houses believe it or not, the biggest fishing net makers in the WORLD staffed almost entirely by 6000 BURMESE. I have been in a brand new chicken export factory in Chachoengsao where the daily manual labour of 4000 CAMBODIANS. These people are not operating on the basis of what is the best way for Thailand but for their own pocket and operating virtually to the detriment of the country. Buggar investing in equipment, buggar investing in technology, the only way they know is to get hold of cheap people. That is where Thailand stands.

"Rubbish".... "Bullocks"..... quite a vocabulary you have there..... you can say little in as few words as possible.

The PTP and Red Shirts have already abandoned democracy for a Thaksin dictatorship.

"The protest leaders have said that they would not be satisfied with new elections, leaving the two sides locked in a stalemate that risks scaring off foreign investors and tourists."

The protest leaders want the country to be governed by appointed, not elected, councils because they keep losing elections. If they succeed it will tear this country apart, the Thai's will not abandon democracy without a fight.

Rubbish.

'Tried to burn Bangkok down'? Don't you think thats a trifle exaggerated? 1 rich peoples shopping centre was set alight - it remains unclear by whom. The army was instructed by indicted murderers Abhisit and Suthep to intervene with live ammunition and at least 90 people were murdered. so yes, Diamond King is right - the 'Dems' are the 'whack-jobs'

Milwall-Fan

You are the one who is minimizing the violence inflicted by Thaksin and the Reds. It's all a part of your revisionist history/hysteria. Why was the military forced to use live rounds? Because Thaksin's Black Shirts were firing live rounds at unarmed soldiers, and killed some Reds among them in the process. What about those killed by the Reds and the Black Shirts? Multicolor protesters killed by Black Shirt/Red Shirt RPGs? Those count among the numbers of dead, but you yahoos always try to pretend that the dead are all Reds, fits your little soapbox speech more cleanly, the truth be damned..

Don't you remember the Red leaders exhorting their foaming-at-the-mouth followers to bring petrol to "Burn Bangkok to the ground"? Don't remember, huh? I guess those brain cells are dead. They might have succeeded had the Army not stepped in, and did what the Red Police wouldn't.

It is the murderous, destructive Reds and their greedy, fascist puppeteer who are the real whack-jobs.

From the scale of vote-buying that occurs for Thaksin-backed parties, how can you call this a majority? Don't tell me "the Dems also do it", because the scale of vote-buying for Dems and PTP is far, far apart, just like the amount of corruption that occurs under Dem governments and Thaksin governments. It is incomparable. When the village poo yais threaten you with grievous harm if you don' t vote the way you're told, is that democracy?

All of Thaksin's elections have come through massive vote-buying, on a scale unheard of in Thailand. His own handpicked Electoral Commission disbanded his party for vote-buying and electoral malfeasance. If your own handpicked cronies turn their back on you, what does that say about the scale of your malfeasance?

When someone is voted into power, should they be allowed to use the tyranny of the majority to steal and plunder from the people? If you love Thailand so much, why do you stand up for such aberrant behavior? You say, just wait for the elections, while Thaksin and his cronies bleed the country dry. Your Reds wouldn't wait for an election, even though Abhisit offered elections, they (Thaksin) refused, because he wanted to visit murder and destruction upon the country.

Do you really think that the rice scheme and all these other multi-billion baht boondoggles are meant to help ordinary Thais? Really? Oh just wait for the next election, mai pen rai, Don't worry me, I can't be bothered with silly protests, let me get back to my "educations" on democracy. Historically, how many autocratic regimes have been overthrown by protests? Did you read about that, oh student of democracy? You lecture me about history and democracy and useless protests, what about 1972? 1976?

If you really think that Thaksin/PTP are not fascists, then I truly feel sorry for you. I would think that the War on Drugs and Mae Sai/Tak Bai tragedies would be enough to convince any thinking person otherwise.

If you think Thailand's fascist dictatorship is anything approaching a democracy, then perhaps you should review what a democracy truly is. This is an autocracy ruled by a corrupt, criminally convicted, sadistic megalomaniac. Sadly there is no democracy here, just a thin tattered shroud.

These are not radicals mobilising against 'The Man'. They're supporting replacing democracy with a Grand Council of Fascism (misnamed the People's Council).

I'm not really a fan of protest. Be it Red or Yellow or PRDC crap. I find protests a 100% negative and zero positive for the country. But your comment really tickles me.

From your post, you are making me feel proud to be a Thai for living in a fascist country that still holds elections and allow oppositions in the parliament without taking them out to be shot much like the Mussolini, Hitler, Francisco and the likes of other fascist leader.

From my many years of educations and understanding democracy. It is the votes of the majority that counts and with that majority, a group is people is chosen to represent that majority together with a venue for the minority to be represented.

From the history of the Democrat party, it is quite obvious that they haven't came into power through elections. It's always through some form of coup or the likes of so. And whenever there's an election, they will always complain about their results, find way to get back into power without going through election knowing very well they will only lose again.

You know, it's hard to get a hardliner to understand democracy. Why don't you explain to me what democracy means to you so maybe I can see where I have misunderstood the term democracy?

Why don't PTP and RS "devote themselves into more positive and productive inputs"? Because it would not be so lucrative for PTP to do so. The Reds just enjoy destruction too much.

Why don't they devote themselves into more positive and productive inputs to Thailand. Rather than just focusing on these limited mindset. That's the result why Thailand is 'reversing' rather than advancing. This is politics of Democratic Party......what a joke for people who are so highly educated yet short sighted....

You're conveniently forgetting about all of the Red Shirt corporations out there, headed by CP and all it's subsidiaries, a major funder of the Red Shirts/PTP. There are many others out there, so this is not just Thaksin's money. How do you know how many billions he has stashed around the world? The confiscated assets was barely a scratch. How much has flowed from government coffers to his pockets since little sister came to power? Millions more.

They are back to their 2006 tactic, if you can't win at the ballot box, you frustrate the system. The democratic party is democratic in name only.

Not only do they backstab all the people that voted for them, they now openly support Suthep and his People's council.

I feel sorry for everyone that voted these clowns in to parliament.

Once and for all it is now been officially revealed. The financial muscle behind the Dems is the same group sponsoring the rally. I have just watched that spineless thing that calls himself a leader declaring his intentions in the hope level headed Democrat supporters will head for the streets tomorrow and swell the dwindling numbers.

What amazed me most was the skill of Blue Sky TV to hide the strings of the puppet master controlling Mr Abhisit. If they have resigned they should never be allowed to enter politics again after failing the 11 million that voted for them. The Dems are effectively saying that they dont want to govern in favour of a selected 'Peoples Council". For the 11 million that voted for these worthless people I feel sorry , you deserve better. Dont make the same mistake again, they dont want democracy, the next free election is your chance to resign this political party (term used very loosely) to history and let Thailand move forward.

The people's behind the Democrats are far richer then the Shinawatra clan but they don't go in politics normally but they know who to contact to get their interest made known but with PTP they really have no one to listen to them. I know three companies of which at least two could swallow the little assets that the Shinawatra group has today. Thaksin real mistake was that he left those companies out and didn't shared his pie. I think the first option should have been for Thaksin to sell AIS to Telecom Asia and not to SingTel in Singapore.

The second mistake was he sold ThaiCom to the Singaporean government linked company. He should have offered it to sell to Telecom Asia as well. When he placed that two deals to the Singaporean's he got himself a very big upset Thai company. Then he played games wit DTAC. DTAC can't have majority owned by foreigners but AIS is ok and fine to ahve SIngaporean take over.

Then Thaksin made a tax free transaction in letting the Singapore GCC take over AIS but for Dtac and True they have to pay taxes on the sell of shares.

This was certainly that broke his neck in Thai politics. It's all about business and the other groups knew that any Thaksin linked government doesn't bring any money in their pockets so they are funneling now funds to the democrats.

BTW: Since last month a few hundred thousand demonstrate in Bangkok. Who pays the money of providing food, drinking water and logositics to the demonstrators. Most of them do not have the money to buy their drink and food for them-self, specially the thugs.

Lets say 600,000 bottles x 14 Baht per day = 8,4 million Baht

Two warm meals per day 300,000 meals x 28 Baht per day = another 8,4 million Baht

x 30 days at least 500 million Baht.

Logistics is not even included.

Surely the democrats can't pay for it so it would be great to know who are the financiers. This number above are very conservative numbers and according to some friends in Bangkok, they put the number to as high as 1.5 billion Baht to bring down the government.

Oh no, they were just carrying around photos and footclappers of Thaksin, just for fun. Please. This is pathetic, even for a Red apologist. Ask any Red Shirt who funded it, they know. "Thaksin thinks, Puea Thai acts", sound familiar?

Surely the democrats can't pay for it so it would be great to know who are the financiers. This number above are very conservative numbers and according to some friends in Bangkok, they put the number to as high as 1.5 billion Baht to bring down the government

A question I have raised several times on here without reply. Who is actually paying to maintain this rally...an army needs feeding. Contributions from the general public does not wash. Maybe instead of financing this rabble they should have paid for some more votes and got into power

What an intelligent question! If we had any more insight then you did which cabal of evil businessmen are secretly funding this mob, we would share it with you for sure! Unfortunately, we're all lowly armchair TV posters with no link to the inside of backroom deals evil politicians and billionaires make.

The comment was meant as a retort in response to all the Dem acolytes on here that keep saying Thaksin funded the 2010 protests..without an ounce of proof

This is not a democracy, but an autocracy posing as one. Many would say that the "Dark Age" of Thailand is now, not 1936, with Thaksin casting his death-dealing shadow over the Kingdom.

about time should have done this 2,weeks ago,it probably means there has to be an election,becauase the mps that resigned,theres no-one to represent the people of the constituences that they have left..everyone is entitled to representation..no matter what there political affiliation is..never a dull day here is there..

She should call a bye-election in all the constituencies of those who resigned and then maybe see the opposition minority dwindle. It makes this country a laughing stock when elected governments are attacked in this way, it's an "I'm taking my ball home because we're losing" mind set. I know democracy isn't perfect but having a yellow shirt feudal system appointed by royal proclamation is in the dark ages (ie 1936 in Siam).

Yes, but don't believe whatever "facts" the Red police feed you.

There is also dispute as to whether there were human remains on the bus, and as to whether a full skeleton was found, and has been stated here many times before, a human body will not burn to the bone in such a fire. So like you said, let's try to use known facts and not buy everything the Red police say hook, line and sinker. They are very well know for being both inept and corrupt, representing this government very well.

How would the police know? They abandoned the area after watching the reds kill protesters in cold blood without doing anything. The army had to come in and rescue the students, the police let it all happen. Not to be trusted!

Seems to me, that 1 protester was (perhaps) killed by a red shirt, 3 others were red shirts killed by (maybe) the protesters and the unfortunate guy on the bus who seems to be either a protester or a re shirt (depending which article you read), but who was certainly killed when the protestors torched the bus.

Support which ever side you want, but let's try to use known facts and not make stuff up.

Sick, but we should we expect no less from a an RS troll.

I will refer back to this post when parents of "innocent" and "unarmed" dead students come crying that their kids died.

There is still the issue that the food was stolen from the protesters' site. He explained that there was a mix-up in translation, and took the blame for presenting incorrect information. However, you're harping on who the food was meant for, when the bigger issue is who stole it. I said that "It is so unbelievable to you that the Red RTP would steal from those opposing their mis-government?" And I stand by that, and stand against anyone who thinks it is so unbelievable that the Red RTP would steal from anyone. They do it every day. They would be especially eager to do it to someone who opposes their darling Reds.

Have any proof that it's not true? It is so unbelievable to you that the Red RTP would steal from those opposing their mis-government? Really??? Really???

I think this is proof enough: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/687207-thai-govt-behind-the-violence-pdrc-claims/?p=7134284

Have any proof that it's not true? It is so unbelievable to you that the Red RTP would steal from those opposing their mis-government? Really??? Really???

My wife's cousin returned home from the protest a couple of days ago, he said things are much worse than what is shown in the media, he gave one example, some people involved with the protest have been cooking food for distribution among the poor, they cooked the food, packaged it and bagged it ready to be sent out, then the police turned up and took all the food leaving none for the poor, how is that for an example of serve and protect?

Is there any proof for this story? Or something that your wife's cousin might have made up? I mean no disrespect but other than words, there is no proof to back up this story.

If you think Thailand's fascist dictatorship is anything approaching a democracy, then perhaps you should review what a democracy truly is. This is an autocracy ruled by a corrupt, criminally convicted, sadistic megalomaniac. Sadly there is no democracy here, just a thin tattered shroud.

These are not radicals mobilising against 'The Man'. They're supporting replacing democracy with a Grand Council of Fascism (misnamed the People's Council).

You mean like how Thaksin's kids bought their way into uni, then paid other kids to take tests for them, then had to pay their way to a diploma? You mean like how Yingluck, with a Masters in Communications from an American university, cannot speak English worth a d*mn? You're right about that, doesn't matter what your education is, you can still be dumber than a box of rocks, YL and her PTP Parliament are testament to that. They are the poster children for elitism.

It's the uneducated who support the Red dictatorship.

I thought these were supposed to be educated people.

actually if they can afford the tuition fee, certainly they belong to the middle class and elite .... and some certainly did buy their

certificate.