qualtrough

You are right. So many sour grapes. You see it here and anywhere else the topic comes up. Not to mention the sheer amount of misinformation about the process.

One Dutch woman, the rest from PRC, Taiwan, Lao, Vietnam, Burma, and other Asian countries.

I think many more countries allow dual citizenship now than don't, and I know some have recently relaxed their rules on that. In any case, even if they have very little money, how could they not see the benefit of never having to waste any time or money on visas and work permits and all the other hassles in daily life thrown up by not being a citizen?

I believe I saw that earlier. Was that the one where the person was repeatedly warned not to do that, not just a one time thing? Any other cases that come to mind to anyone?

From my very brief perusal, the loss of nationality document appears to list people who have requested giving up their Thai citizenship. Their names and their new country of citizenship are then listed. It looks like those of countries that do not allow dual citizenship, like Singapore. I would be interest in seeing information about people whose citizenship was taken away from them and the reasons for that.

I just saw this on Google. It was a link description that shows up when you google citizenship. The thing is, these are listed as the myths of citizenship, but somehow the myth part gets left off! How many foreigners get Thai citizenship? Only 100 people per year are granted Thai citizenship. You have to live in Thailand for two decades before you can apply; Only people who have 'connections' in high places get citizenship; They only want millionaires to apply; or.

I am mystified at the people who apparently live here long term and for whatever reason can't find any benefit to obtaining citizenship. I suspect it is due to either lack of imagination, sour grapes, or a combination of the two.

For me it was a pretty simple process. Once I qualified and passed the points test it was simply a document gathering and submission exercise and attending a few interviews. And waiting. Painless really. All the officials I dealt with were very friendly and accommodating. I was lucky as mine too just 3 years start to finish.

Cannot see one practical benefit?? No need to deal with immigration ever again. Immigrations fees/laws/requirements can change. You could wake up one day to find out that your retirement or marriage visa costs twice what it did the other day. You can own or co-own your home or other property. No need to own through a spouse or third party. No need to obtain a work permit. Can own your own company/business. Thai prices for entry to national parks. Free entry if you are over 60. Coverage under Thai 30 baht health scheme or whatever name it is known by now. Visa free travel to ASEAN countries No need to sell your house if your wife pre-deceases you, or to have to engage is some kind of legal legerdemain to stay there. No hassles signing up for bank accounts and other programs because you don't have a Thai ID. You can use the Thai line at immigration, potentially savings hours during busy periods. Substantial rail travel discounts for retired people for several months of the year. Too many more to list. And all that cost less than 10,000 baht in fees, submitting documents, going in for a few interviews. Quite a bargain.

I obtained citizen through marriage and was not required to sing.

You sound bitter, so I am not even sure why you would be hanging around this sub. But to answer your question, and assuming that a farang wants to live in Thailand, the benefits of being a citizen are almost uncountable: 1. No need to give up your other citizenship unless you are citizen of a relatively small number of countries who require that. 2. No more need to waste time or money on visas, keep a large deposit of money in the bank, or purchase an expensive long term visa under one of the several schemes. 3. No need for 90 day reporting. 4. Free to start and run a business, or do any job you want. 5. Free to own land and or a home without engaging in risky workarounds. 6. Qualify for various universal health care schemes. 7. Visa free entry to ASEAN countries. 8. No hassles opening up bank accounts, applying for 7/11 cards, etc. and etc. 9. Thai pricing at national parks, which can be up to 10 times cheaper than farang prices. And much, much more. If that's doesn't seem worthwhile for you I don't know what more to say.

She has nice mangoes!

You can divide your life into pre and post citizenship periods, and the latter is so much more convenient. Well worth any wait.

Sorry for beating this horse to death, but my decision is to go for the usufruct now, and if I am around in five years and feel like it I can always pay the reduced price and get added to the chanotes. If anyone can see any flaws with this reasoning please speak up now or forever hold your peace 🙂

Same situation, bit of an age difference. But we have a will that stipulates that everything goes to the surviving spouse, and then to the children when both of us have shuffled off this mortal coil. That was drawn up by Tilleke & Gibbin, so I am assuming they knew what they were doing.

Thanks for your reply. I definitely will ask for a calculation, e.g. how are they basing the valuation. Regarding the usufruct, I believe they wanted 75 baht for the fee, and the rest to pad their own nest. Hard to challenge decision-making officials on things like this, because if I tell them "No, we will only pay the fee" they can come back with something along the lines of "We are not going to give you a usufruct because you are obviously using it to avoid paying the transfer fee". Or any number of reasons. Conversations like that can go back and forth until the end of time. Sadly that is the way it works here much of the time. To recap, it looks like the choices are to either pay what they ask for the usufruct, or pay the transfer fee after agreeing on how that assessment is determined. I keep vacillating between choice 1 and 2, but will probably go for paying the transfer fee as long as it is within reason of the legit rate due.

Makes sense, thanks.

Very helpful, thanks. I think this explains what is going on, and your explanation of why 10,000 was being asked makes perfect sense. Pretty sure I will just bite the bullet and tell them to proceed with the expensive option 🙂

Thank for your help! Here's some clarification to the best of our understanding. If I want to have my name on both Chanotes right now it would cost 75000 in the fees you mention. They also said if I wait 5 years this would be reduced to 35,000. OK, fair enough. But then they suggested the usufruct, but stated that would cost 10,000 baht under the table. This would mean the chanote holder (wife) could not sell or borrow against the properties without my consent as they explained it to me. So, now what I am not clear about is why adding a usufruct would require a 10,000 baht "fee"? My name isn't being added as a co-owner, rather basically as a tenant with usufruct rights. As this juncture I am thinking I will just pay the 75000 in fees and get added as the joint tenant and be done with it. Thanks to any others who have had any positive suggestions/comments. Or those to come.

It is actually pretty straightforward. If you're married to a Thai woman for 3 years, have had back-to-back work permits and visas for 3 years, and an income of 40,000 baht/mo, you can apply. Once you meet those requirements it usually takes three to five years for final approval. You can do it yourself without the assistance of any lawyer or other services. No bribes were sought or given. The actual cost in fees is under 10,000 baht total. It's mostly just an exercise in gathering documents and then undergoing interviews snd waiting. There's a lot of incorrect information about this on the web, but there is a good thread here that has a lot of good information. You can find it under the "Story of My Thai citizenship" thread.

Thank you for your comment. I had the term switched around. It's keb kin เก็บกิน, and you are correct, it apparently does mean usufruct. But I still have two questions: Why do I need to be listed under a usufruct rather than as a co-owner on the chanote?v is it not possible to have joint ownership? 2. Why is there any transfer fee involved (75000 baht), as no money is exchanging hands? Are they really doing me a favor by overlooking that for 10,000 baht, or is that just BS in order to get 10,000 baht?

If you don't have anything useful to contribute why don't you just FO and stop wasting everyone's time here? Surely there must be other threads that could benefit from your comments?

Yes I speak, read, and write Thai. I was looking for some advice from someone with experience like GarryP before involving a lawyer.

So we went down to the Land Department today. Now the hang up is they're trying to tell us that we need to pay 75,000 baht in some kind of transfer tax due in order to transfer my name onto the Chanotes. Then they said that I could be listed as a kin kep กินเก็บ which would mean I would be able to live there my entire life and that neither of us could sell or borrow against the property without the permission of the other. And if that is true I would be fine with it. But they expressly said that there could not be two outright owners on the Chanote. And then hush hush they said that they could get around the 75,000 Baht tax due and I could pay a 75 baht fee and 5,000 baht, for, well you know what. I wasn't very comfortable with it because I think it's fishy, but I was thinking well 5,000 baht what the heck. But then when I went out to the car to get the money my wife called and said that was 5,000 for each piece of property so total of 10,000. So I said let's forget about it for the moment until we can sort this out. Questions: 1. So is it correct that technically in order to get my name on the Chanote I need to pay some kind of tax on the property value? The property was transferred from my wife's father to her something like 25 years ago. The other property was purchased 10 years ago and is in my wife's name too. I was the one who paid for it. 2. Is it true that the only way I can get my name on the chanote is as a kin kep, not as an actual 50/50 co-owner? 3. Do I just suck it up and pay the 10,000 and be done with it? Again, please accept my thanks for any assistance with this.

What's not right? I applied for and received Thai citizenship on the basis of my marriage. Thai ID card and passport. I'm listed as the owner on one of our two blue books.