charles

Reading this thread as someone who left Thailand to return to the UK when my first child was aged one, I feel it is difficult to compare the international schools to UK state schools in general.

The crucial factor in the UK is LOCATION. This is especially crucial at Primary level, where in most places outside London if you plonk yourself in the right area (usually a suburban or semi-rural area) you can get an outstanding school. The whole location factor tends to snowball, leading to good headteacher, good teachers with low turnover, great teaching assistants (despite very low wages in good areas you can get some outstanding people who don't necessarily need to concern themselves with money too much), and kids generally from stable, high-achieving families. I've also been suprised by the curriculum - imagined it being rigid but it seems wonderful - teaching all the basics around various topics which keep the kids enthusiatic, e.g. dinosaurs, under the sea etc. Teaching social skills, empathy, right and wrong etc is also done very well and highly emphasized.

It is true that the above scenario gets more difficult as kids move up to secondary school. The location factor still holds but due to the greatly increased size it is much more "comprehensive" in various ways. Which makes me wonder about people saying "we'll go back to the UK when he/she gets to high school age". I'd worry by doing this you'd be missing the best part of the UK system, and arguably the most important in terms of the child's educational and emotional/social foundations.

I'm no construction expert, but it looks to me like work has *stopped* on Trendy (Sukh 13), a large ambitious re-fit of the former Ambassador Hotel building. Yeah you'll see an occassional head moving along up there, but they aren't doing anything.

My neighbor has signed and paid for a 2-br unit up there, he told me it would be ready this coming April... not a happy camper.

...maybe the construction workers have been drawn away to the new airport? In that case expect them back late June. Or August. Maybe December 6, year yet to be announced...

Caveat Emptor! (and see the thread on the Regent Residences.)

Think work has been pretty much stalled at the Trendy for a long time. IF it gets finished, would guess it will be 2 years late.

I'm sure someone can offer some excuses on behalf of the Grande Asset mob, but personally I'd guess that construction workers are not at work due to the fact that contractors are as a rule not inclined to get the job done if they're not being paid.

At least in the case of the Regent Residences, if it does eventuallly all get finished as originally designed, it will be a spectacular building for those who put their money down to enjoy. Unfortunately the Trendy will be far from spectacular even in the best case scenario. It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would put their money down on that in advance of it being completed.

We all can have an opinion, and mine is that Sansiri is one of the safest developers to choose to buy from.

We also develop property, and there is a LOT of skeptcism about The Regent development, simply because it is not finished so we cannot see it.

I really wish for their own sakes people would listen to sensible and well informed advice like the above.

There are a few people on here who have apparently put down their money on the Regents project who are having a go at people with sceptical opinions, took some stick myself a bit earlier on this thread.

The scepticism, in my opinion, is well intended and well founded. It is surely instructive that projects by developers with a solid reputation and record like Sansiri are favored by well heeled Thais while the Regents has not done well with such people. Personally, I find it hard to believe that these well heeled Thais are stupid and know the local scene less well than foreigners, many of whom on this thread seem to have limited knowledge of Bangkok.

It is also instructive that Grande Asset do not have a clause in their contract regarding penalties for late completion. And what a suprise the Regent and the Trendy next door are going to be completed well behind the original schedule, assuming they are completed at all.

So let's say it nice and simple. It has happened before and WILL happen again. Real estate projects in Thailand are not always completed. And sometimes when they are completed they are well below the original concept/specification. Look at that big condo complex in central Pratunam where constuction is slowing dragging on for ever as they constantly try to find the necessary funding. In my opinion, there is a genuine risk of this with the Regent (and the Trendy). They are a pretty dodgy company and clearly underfunded. (Talking of dodgy companies it is perhaps instructive that the bank supposedly backing the Regent is Krung Thai). Steve has also alluded to the solid history of Sansiri, well what about Grande Asset? It may be a "new" company but the people behind it are not new, they've been in real estate before, what is their record?

All in all, for anyone who likes the Regent development (on paper), surely it is best to wait to see it completed before putting any money down. You will not miss the boat! There will be units available, either direct or sell-ons from pre-bookers. No problem! It's possible, although by no means certain, you might pay a small premium for this; however this is surely worthwhile when offset against the real risks of non-completion or not turning out as hoped. Also while you wait for 3 years or whatever your deposit could be earning interest elsewhere!

The thai economy is recovering & the oil price is rising, so the cost of living will go up.

i wonder what kind of house can you rent with 6k baht five years down the road?

At a guess I'd say 6k.

Be careful about making assumptions. Personally, I've seen more than a few apartments in Bangkok with the same rates now as they had in 1998. Hard to drive rents up when so many new places are being built all the time.

Now if I considered the prices of alcoholic beverages in 1998 against 2006 then I would find some significant inflation.

Newspapers suck up to Taksin anyway - they all need advertising from AIS, CP, and the governement itself.

thats positively the most surreal statement i have read in a long time.

apparently subliminal messages put across by the Post and especially The Nation on a daily basis become powerful tools to shape opinion and undermine readers' own objective reasoning. i can only imagine the thai language papers being more incendiary.

I can only imagine that you cannot read Thai and have very little knowledge concerning Thai language newspapers.

You are right, Nation and Bangkok Post are very biased against Thaksin. Thai masses do not read these papers though, in fact they couldn't even physically read one of their headlines with "subliminal" messages.

Thai masses do read Thai Rath and Daily News. For these papers advertising revenue is certainly a big issue and they have generally been quite kind to Thaksin. Certainly more kind than any reasonable person with no revenue to lose would be!

Army Chief General Sondhi Boonyaratglin (สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน) said that it is unlikely that the insurgents can carry out attacks in Bangkok as they are not familiar with the areas

Such a wily and plotting General...

Wow! If this is the level of intellect of the "Army Chief" then God know what his subordinates will be like. All bets are surely off if they are out on the streets!

Certainly don't have any statistics or indeed know where to start with them.

However...my impression, generally speaking, after many years living here is that the chances of one being the recipient of RANDOM violence in Bangkok are similar or possibly less likely than large UK cities. Set against that is the decreased awareness in Bangkok of where is a bad area and in fact the lack of clear distinctions between good and bad areas. For example, around a posh Bangkok area like Thonglor you can certainly find pockets of deprivation, very dodgy people, drug dealing etc.

On the other hand, I firmly believe that any minor dispute in Thailand, particularly with a lesser educated male (which counts in most of them), has a much, much greater chance of escalating out of control and culminating in your death. Particularly when drunk, they can act with quite extreme violence, usually in groups, way out of all proportion to the original dispute. Despite being someone who is generally very "chai yen" and does not like to get involved, it is hard to never ever have a dispute with someone over 10 years or so. I've had a couple of such incidents myself over the 10 years and certainly consider myself lucky not to have found myself dead on the front cover of Thai Rath! In my experience, such disputes in the UK nearly always lead to nothing more than some verbals and at worst a bit of fisticuffs.

Its Thailands future, and its future relationship with forreigners that concerns me - no one seems to sure what lies in store - you may or may not know what im getting at - but it cant be discussed here anyway...

Yes...I don't think there is any need for scaremongering - in the sense like Thaksin will be round next week to personally strip you of your foreign ownership of that little condominium unit. However, the thing is there is so much sh*t below the surface and things that most of us don't know about...certainly in my humble view there are good chances of some serious "fun and games" here over the next 5 years or so. And this might be a consideration for those considering property ownership.

It may not be a case of directly impacting foreign ownership. More a case of you just not wanting to be in this country anymore...and then having an "asset" that you can't liquidize. Of course this is no huge problem for those for whom a property purchase would just be small change and just want somewhere of their own to live and personalize etc - for however long that may be. But for those not in such a comfortable position and God forbid those actually wanting to leverage themselves to buy..."you've got to be f***ing crazy" is probably a reasonable appraisal.

As an aside, there'll be what looks like a seriously explosive book related to Thailand coming out in the middle of this year. As above, it certainly can't be discussed here, suffice to say there is more chance of Trinidad & Tobago winning the World Cup than it being legally available in the Land of Smiles...

So why are many people killed on the roads in European countries?

LOS deaths in 2002: 14,000

UK deaths in 2002: 3,450

Population and number of drivers: roughly comparable.

I think you may have the question the wrong way around.

If the UK had the same ammount of motorcycle riders as Thailand does, then you may well see similar figures, 70% of road deaths in Thailand are Motorcycle riders or Passengers.

You can't have it both ways - what about the number of car (including pick-ups) drivers? The number of cars on the road in the UK will be many multiples of Thailand. Yet Thailand still has more "non-motorcycle" deaths than the UK.

Hi,

My wife has a UK settlement visa commencing March 1 (we are living together now in Bangkok).

Thing is we may want to delay leaving for the UK a little. Question is...how long have we got after March 1st to get to the UK without messing up the "indefinite leave to remain" application in 2 years time?

I am thinking the answer would be most of March but would greatly appreciate any guidance from those with much more knowledge and experience than me!

Cheers!

The worst thing about all these reportings is that people end up not going to Thailand thinking it's an unsafe place. I also feel far safer in Thailand than I do in any city in the UK.

"Feel safer" being the operative words. Almost certainly an illusion. On the contrary, I'd say these reports are actually informing people about the reality that Thailand is a more dangerous place than they'd imagined.

Of course on any 2 week holiday the chances are you'll be OK. What are the chances of you being murdered in the UK in any 2 week period?

Nevertheless, even by official figures murder is way more prevalent here than in the UK. Firearms are also way more prevalent (no coincidence). On top of that there is almost certainly much better "recording" of murder in the UK. More than a few people just "disappearing" in Thailand as well as being killed by police.

As for rape in Thailand, especially in lower class society it is, as mentioned by some, completely endemic. Very few reports or prosecutions, many if not ignored completely will just be resolved by payment of "compensation" or even marriage! I get the impression for a suprisingly large proportion of Thai females, their first sexual experience is essentially "forced".

Think you've got a bit hot under the collar there and you may have confused me with other people but I'll try to address your points:

There's one poster with nick "Charles W" on skyscrapercity who on every single occasion writes very negative comments about the Regent Residences or Grande Asset. I had assumed this "Charles W" was you. Perhaps the competitors of Grande Asset hire many Charles'es

Yeah that's me! When I said you may have confused me with other people I was referring to your belief I'd bought a unit in Athenee Residence. I haven't.

I'm honestly not associated with any "competitors" of Grande Asset. But I can understand you might not believe me. Basically I just think that Grande Asset are a dodgy bunch, not competent or trustworthy. Nothing more than that.

You see the full page advert in the Bangkok Post yesterday for the Trendy Conduminium - "for your trendy lifestyle" etc. etc. You think any remotely competent company marketing a condo to foreigners would come up with stuff like that? It's embarressing. The advert also says "completed early 2006". Yeah right! Have you seen the place? What I've tried to argue is that if they are so incompetent/unprofessional as to choose the name/concept "the Trendy", then can you trust their competence in developing the condo itself? The answer to that is there for all to see.

Anyway I'll try my best not to comment on Grande Asset any more, think I've made my point!

Great guide above!

One area I'd add is HUAY KWANG along the subway around Rachada. Good for anyone who wants away from the farang areas but wants to retain the bright lights/busy atmosphere and avoid the Thai suburbs. Like Phra Khanong full of nighttime girls just that these work with Asians. Farangs are truly peripheral in Rachada. Nevertheless if you wanted to court trouble I think you could very easily find it. Minding your own business and it should be OK!

Looking to buy a 130 - 200 sq meter, higher floor, view etc.

Was wondering what Condo building in the Thong Lor area is considered the best.

Any suggestions?

Always thought Icon III was one of the nicest buildings. Built in 1994 (I think) but still looks good. In a nice part of Thonglor near that new "Playground" place. If you want something new, there are 2 new developments right next to it, Noble Ora (just finished) and the Height (almost finished). Not sure they would be a better option than Icon III though - Noble doesn't compare that well considering its brand new while the Height looks quite spectacular but think most units will be relatively small. Unfortunately, however, they may inhibit the views from some of the units at Icon III which would previously have been fantastic from higher floors.

Charles, if you are so disgusted by the idea of prostitution, why settle in Bangkok or even come to Thailand?

If I am not mistaken, you may have bought a unit in Athenee residence? Quit bad mouthing about other projects, you wrote so many articles bad mouthing about Regent residences in thaivisa and also skyscrapercity. What's your point of doing this? to boost up your athenee residence purchase? or to make you look smarter than others who bought Regent?

Bangkok is full of prostitutions for that matter. Why dont you flaunt your purchase of a Bangkok condo for Bt25million something back home in England or whereever you come from, see whether you impres anyone.

Grande Asset has been listed on the stock exchange in 2003. No to answer your question it is not like TPI, listed under Rehabilitation company.

Think you've got a bit hot under the collar there and you may have confused me with other people but I'll try to address your points:

Firstly I've not bought a unit in Athenee Residence or any other condo in Thailand. I've always rented here. I have no involvement in real estate and no vested interests whatsoever - unlike you as a buyer of Regent Residences I'd venture to suggest.

Secondly, this is a discussion forum where people offer their opinions and advice. My opinion is that people should be very wary about pre-booking with Grande Asset. Others may disagree with this, offer their own "evidence" and then people looking for information on the subject can make their own minds up. Sometimes peoples opinions/advice on Thai Visa can make a real difference to people, and save them a lot of money and problems.

As for Grande Asset, I'm not the only one sceptical and I think so far much of the scepticism appears to have some justification. Certainly their two big condo projects on Sukhumvit have gone back way beyond their original schedules. May not bother some customers, but to others it must be a major disappointment and inconvenience - not to mention a bit of a worry - even more so when their sales contracts apparently offer no redress (unlike some other more reliable developers).

As for prostitution, I've no problem at all and have enjoyed a bit of nightlife in my time. Just been arguing, like many others, that a center of street prostitution/ladyboy activity might not be an ideal location for a high class residence. People might not want to walk into all that every time they pop out of the door and the location could even prove a bit embarressing for some executive types, but of course it depends on individual preference. Point is up-market residences the world over are not generally located in down-market red light areas. In Bangkok, the Ruam Rudee and Thonglor areas, for example, are two areas that are very pleasant and full of up-market apartments/condos, and might be worth considering for those looking for a top end residence.

As for the background of Grande Asset and the people who run it, I'm not an expert but believe they have a bit more "history" prior to listing in 2003.

At the end of the day, I'm sure people making 10 million baht decisions would like as much info and opinions as possible before taking the plunge. If you don't like the opinions, you can always disregard them!

Maybe your contract had a typo of 2006 instead of 2007.

The entire Bangkok or Thailand for that matter is seedy.

Are you being serious? Have you compared, for example, the Ploenchit-Ruam Rudee-Chidlom area or the Thonglor area after 9 p.m. to the area around the Regent?

A typo? Think they may have changed the contract once they realized they couldn't keep their dates.

As for share price fluctuations, come on, this isn't the UK, could mean all sorts of things and not necessarily related to the company's real financial position. Wasn't Grande Asset in it's previous incarnation a desperately indebted company (run by the same people).

Finally, why is Grande Assets "Trendy Condominium" project (refurbishment of existing building next to the Regent) also moving at a desperately slow if not non-existent pace?

people who are fixated on labels... these folks have issues

Mmm, now who does that remind me of?

IMO this type of labeling of first/second/third world... it's just another form of cheering "your team" on. In the end, do you yourself live like a first worlder or third worlder? Do you do your own cooking, iron your own shirts, clean your own toilets, wash your own cars (if you even own cars), paint your own houses (if you even own your home), etc? You have a majority of the population in "first world" countries who have to do these menial slave like tasks themselves.

Gross oversimplification and I'd dare say by emphasizing the above you are indeed engaging in just another form of cheering "your team" on.

Personally I think there are limitations to how much one can, despite plenty of personal wealth, put oneself in a "bubble", kind of immune from the environment one is living in. I'm sure you or members of your family/clan will have experienced this in the past.

Can anyone imagine (a)farang(s) going to rape in Thailand?

I can,t ,my bet is Thai men.

Nothing is impossible in this tragic case.....Dangerous bet you'r making

LaoPo

Fair enough, but let's face it, if a farang female is gang raped AND murdered as well at a Thai beach resort, anyone with a bit of experience of Thailand would guess that it would be a bunch of Thai blokes, most likely "low class", migrant labor types. Group of farang blokes on holiday in Thailand doing this, well it might be possible but would seem highly improbable. Always seems to me that in Thailand there is a much greater chance of a crime such as robbery or rape being followed up with murder.

Whatever it is desperately sad.

Good luck with GAM - hopefully they'll be more responsive on the ground. TBH, Dec 06 was always impossible given the size of the project, so this might not be a slip, just a return to reality from an overly-aggressive sales pitch...

Fair enough, but it is not far off 2 years between launching the project and breaking ground...not acceptable (in my opinion). An "overly-aggressive sales pitch" might also be described as downright lieing.

Personally, I just think that for a "high class" condo there are so many better choices (e.g. Madison, Fullerton, Park Chidlom etc) - and for all these places construction is quite well to very well advanced. I think the Regent's weakness in terms of management and also location (in my opinion) is evidenced by its weak sales - and if a place in this price range hasn't got good bookings by now, it looks like it will really struggle from now on.

Above project is Lumpini Ville Sukhumvit 77 by LPN Development (www.bestbuycondo.com). I agree, good value, project is moving along very nicely and will be completed in less than 6 months. Prices are in the 35-40K per sq.m. range, they have 30 sq.m. studios, 35 sq.m. studios with partition, and 60 sq.m. two beds. However, think they are about 90% booked up so the remaining units may not be many people's first choice. This company also has projects on Ratchada and Rama III (by the river) plus a just completed project near Saphan Kwai skytrain. They are a good choice in your price range if buying new. If buying second hand you have all of Bangkok to go on.

Welcome to Thailand, where NO building gets constructed within the advertised time period. 

As Digger says, this is simply not true. There are plenty of companies getting projects up on time, e.g., LPN, Supalai, Noble - there for all to see. Many of these are big projects too, which of course need professional management and proper funding.

Unfortunately professional management and proper funding might not be associated with Grande Asset. Really don't want to say "you should have done this.." in a smart arse kind of way, but this just illustrates why you should very carefully check out the developer if booking an off-plan condo.

Remember reading one of Grande Assets glossy brochures myself - they do nice brochures and nice renderings of buildings they plan to construct. Unfortunately, looking at their track record, one is left much less impressed. They have the Westin Sukhumvit and that is about it, otherwise they only have projects "under construction": one in Hua Hin (apparently progressing reasonably); the Holiday Inn on Sukhumvit (progressing although apparently not too fast); the Regent and "the Sales" in Pattaya (both still to 'get off the ground') and finally "the Trendy" condo next to the Regent. This place is the biggest red flag of all. It is taking them longer to refit an existing building than it takes the more professional developers to build a project from scratch! Quite clearly they do not have the sales or cash flow. Not to mention of course that any company that comes up with such a naf name as the Trendy for a condo aimed at foreigners needs their competence seriously questioned.

As for the contract, does it say anything about what happens if they don't complete on time? From my experience, last Feb the wife and I signed a contract with LPN Development PLC to buy a condo (off-plan) near Onnuj. Completion was set as June 2006. The contract was very specific about late completion. In the case of something unavoidable/not their fault (e.g. due to the authorities or something) they could delay for up to one year, but they would have to inform the customer straight away and the customer had the right, if he wished, to withdraw from the contract and get all his money back. Other than such cases, they guaranteed to complete the project by early August 2006 (i.e. within 2 months of schedule), if they failed to do so they would incur fines (paid to the customer) and again the customer could choose to get his money back.

Of course, the above company knows what it's doing, quite evidently it will be completed on time and is already about 90% booked I believe. By the way, me and the wife changed our minds and decided to return to the UK - we got all our deposit back (about 10% of total cost) - sales staff found someone else to take over our contract (made some money for themselves in the process too). This was slightly not by the book - if I'd formally asked the company to withdraw from my contract, I believe I'd have got back 80% of my deposit - not bad really, after all it is a "deposit".

So, I'd look at what your contract says about penalties for late construction and what capacity for "get out" you have. Mind you, for this company I wouldn't be suprised if both were not even mentioned in the contract. It also doesn't suprise me that they have noone able or williing to reply to e-mails in English. By the way, how much deposit have you paid?

God that was long winded, apologies and best of luck!

If you are talking about "The Trendy" condominium, I wouldn't bother.

Well overpriced for what rental return you might get from it. Also, for what it's worth, it's not a new build, just a refurb of an existing building.

Stocks can go to zero.   Real estate (barring incidents involving atomic energy perhaps) doesn't.   

True to a point, but stocks are also in general a much more liquid "asset". As I'm sure you know, property in Thailand is (generally) not very liquid at all, unless offered at real knockdown prices. Unlike Western countries, the number of transactions in 2nd hand properties is dwarfed by those in new builds.

As you imply, at least if you have land under your property there is always some value in that. But here we are talking condominiums and certainly a lot of the older (in Thailand's case this means just 10-20 years) less than high class condominums have in reality very little capital value. A lot of them aren't exactly built to last anyway.

I have to disagree here: My friend purchased 5 units direct from a developer for circa. 600,000 baht each. They were bare shells and the upgrade albeit a high quality one was in the region of 300-400,000 baht per unit. Each of his units rents out for 17,000 baht per month. There current value is about 1.6 million baht per unit. A very worthwhile investment.

If this is true then good luck to your friend, but I'd say that the figures above are truly exceptional. I don't know when/where he bought the units or in what circumstances? However, as of now in Bangkok (for example) 600K would not get you anything more than a small studio in a low class development well away from the city center and mass transit. And there is no way you could get 17K for a unit in such a development no matter how much you "upgraded" it inside.

17K per month for a place that is worth 1.6 million to sell is way out of step with rent/value ratios here. Tenants stupid enough to pay that would be every landlords dream!