SweatiePie

One example that stands out is the treatment of conscripts.

http://www.globalpos...ion-transgender

There's a website referenced in the article where you can read the horror stories. There are probably a few exagerated tales on the message board, but the article is a sad read.

Not only sad, but also woefully incorrect and a very poor piece of sensationalist reporting. For any country with conscription transgender conscripts put the Army in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position; transgender conscripts have not been rejected on "mental disorder" grounds for a number of years in Thailand, following formal clarificaton, and this description was generally used to discourage the large number of conscripts who wanted to avoid military service and who saw cross-dressing for a few hours as the easiest and cheapest way out.

Most gays who are conscripte have no more (or less) problem with military service inThailand than their straight peers - if anything many have an easier time, as the more effeminate conscripts usually become officers' household staff and spend very little time in the barrack room or in the field.

Another example is that of access to medical care. I know some people will disagree with me, but in the last year there have been several public announcements and press conferences by various activist groups and the health ministry itself detailing the problems involved with providing medical care to various groups outside the biggest urban centers.......... Unfortunately, that's not what happens with HIV or cancer or standard diseases in the rural areas.

I wouldn't disagree with you, or with PJ, but I can't see why its a particular problem for gays - HIV and cancer are pretty non-discriminatory, just as sex-ed and safe sex teaching by the government is universally pretty poor. Don't forget, though, that Mechai Viravaidya's PDA is the largest NGO in Thailand with 600 employees and over 12,000 volunteers; in 2007 they were awarded the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation's Gates Award for their work, together with funds of $1,000,000.

Hi, SweatiePie: Of course I refer to Thai people in our company when I say "we." After all, as a Thai corporation, we're majority owned by Thais, and I'm not the one out there on radio, TV, and in movies speaking Thai to other gay Thai people. I hope that assuages your defensive, nationalistic concerns. As for gay marriage, in any country, marriage confers automatic legal rights and privileges that unmarried couples don't acquire merely by living together.

I think Sweatie is carping at your use of the word 'marriage'.

Got it in one. Prior to the relatively recent introduction of formalised registered marriages "gay marriages" were not uncommon in Thailand; maybe we aren't as backward as some people think.

("carping" - I like that; I'll have to remember that one!)

Hi, SweatiePie: Of course I refer to Thai people in our company when I say "we."

Glad to hear that (and I hope you didn't take any offence!).

My main "concern" was that before the influence of so-called Western religions (which in the form of the worst offenders, namely Islam, Christianity and Judaism, are actually middle-eastern religions) there was far less persecution and isolation of gays in Thailand and other Asian countries (and even in your own country under the Native Americans) and gays were an accepted and "normal" part of society.

Oh God. Look, it is indeed common practice to buy children here (albeit unusual to buy outside the family).

If your girlfriend is telling you this with a smile, she's implying a compliment that your son should be worth 200k.

But there's no way your kid will be 'snatched'. The Chinese guy lives in your neighbourhood (would be easily identified if any kiddie grabbing went on), not some kiddie brothel supplier from the boonies. Relax. Let it go. Just smile and nod saying you want at least 10 mil:lol: And get to know the culture here more. Which goes for a lot of posters here

Correct on all counts - but why would you imagine that posters here would change the habits of a lifetime?

Sounds like a TIA. See a doctor (while you stll can!)

......... Things are changing for the better, but oh-so-slowly. We hope to do the same in Thailand, and by extension, influence the region. Thanks for all the comments, which are great to read.

Afraid I can't agree with all of that, PJ..

Yes, 100% "society learns how to see people through the media", but that's part of the problem to me. Have you watched Channel 3's evening soap recently? Thats how the Thai media consistently portrays Thai gays - mincing ladyboys who are a bunch of bitchy dress-designers and make-up artists. "change the images and change the social attitudes", sure, but those images haven't changed here since there Thai media began.

The images that need changing aren't those on Channel 3 any more than they are in Will and Grace. The images that need changing are of real-life gays in real-life situations, such as Mark Bingham on Flight 93 (9-11) and of gays simply doing their normal jobs in normal (or even abnormal) circumstances. We need to be accepted for who we are and for what we can do, not in spite of what we are or, even worse, because of what we are.

And, as has been discussed here before at some length on various threads, why the American gay obsession with "gay marriage"? The rest of us seem perfectly happy with partnerships or unions, as long as they have the same legal and moral rights as marriage - unlike the racial divide and segregation, there are biological differences between men and women and between gay and straight couples, so why not accept that and stop making things difficult for yourselves?

And just what do you mean by "We hope to do the same in Thailand, and by extension, influence the region."? This is the only thing you said that I take real exception to, but just who do you mean by "we"? I hope you mean those Thais involved with the movie, since as Thailand is clearly so far ahead of America as far as gay acceptance and integration is concerned the last thing we need is an American journalist trying to change things here - as elkangorito suggested, it is Western influence and prejudice that is largely responsible for starting and feeding discrimination against gays here. Gays in the West seem unable to either accept or understand that before the West became involved in Thailand and influenced Thai culture, directly and indirectly, gays were fully accepted and integrated into Thai society on every level. No personal offence intended, but Western morals and the Western press have always been part of the problem, and are unlikely to ever be part of the solution.

After watching Larry King Live on CNN today I have had occasion to revise my views somewhat and I can now understand rather more why Americans here may find Thailand to be so accepting of gays compared to their own country, as I had not properly appreciated quite how much prejudice gays have to face in America, particularly at school and when young. The situation appears to be considerably different to that in most Western countries, and if true it is infinitely worse there now than anything I experienced or was even aware of in an English school in the 70's. So much for progress and change.

According to the show suicide rates among gay teens are 4 times higher than their straight peers in America, with half a dozen gay teenagers committing sucide in just one week recently, and bullying and taunting at school is the norm, as is open rejection by the all-powerful Church. On top of that in 33 states it is allegedly still legal for someone to be fired for nothing more than being gay (although it did not say when any of these laws had last been used).

While Thailand may be far from the "gay paradise" that some farangs perceive it to be I can understand that it is all comparative - consequently I think it would be fair to say that it is not so much that Thailand is particularly "good" in this regard, but that it is considerably "less bad" than the USA.

So what happens if I am going to Spain for two days, then to Greece for a month, then flying back from France after another two days?

From my own experience it hardly matters where you are going as there are so many variables (longest stay, flying in, flying out, sponsor, etc)

If it is important to you that people are aware of your gender or sexuality, I suggest you post an image of you in a sexy pose with a suitable posing partner.

Is that any better? No 6 pack abs, I am afraid, though there is a growing amount of flesh (not necessarily sexy) and no hot b/f ( I rather like yours, though, as I have always had a soft spot for a big wet tongue!).

People being aware of my gender or sexuality, or my nationality, education, religion, etc, is only important to me if it has any relevance. If it doesn't, then it doesn't and shouldn't matter - at least to me..

I was told it was my overuse of punctuation, ie lots of exclamation points!!!! and too many question marks???

At school I was always told to avoid over-punctuating as it made you look like a drag queen (it was a conservative school!)

So if you live in Thailand, I'm stunned at your question. As I've told overseas audiences, homophobia here is rampant; Silom has about as much to do with Thailand as Manhattan's West Village has to do with, say, Alabama. I mean, just look at what happened in Chiang Mai the past two years when groups tried to form gay pride marches: people beat up as the police stood by and watched (mid-1950s America again, to use your citation).............

The fear and self-loathing of Thai gay men in this country is widespread and deep.

I was surprised to read this too, partcularly from someone whom I had thought was at least knowledgeable about things in Thailand, if not always well informed.

How little "most foreigners" know of the "current Thai reality", with many farangs here continually talking about the lack of prejudice in Thailand and how it is so accepting of gays and sexual minorities. In the major urban areas such as Bangkok and Chaing Mai, in particular, prejudice is not only as strong as it has always been, but it is probably growing. Many Thai gays are "accepted", but only in their place, which usually means either the entertainment industry (from a "character" as a TV reporter or personality, to a dancer at Tiffany's, or the sex trade) or work as a maid or a hairdresser. Some, if they are from good enough families, can become teachers or go into the family business but these are the exceptions.

In Pattaya in particular there is a disproportionately large number of gays, particularly fems or ladyboys who are more obvious to the many farangs there, who have nothing to do with the sex industry (and never have had) - they do the same jobs as anyone else, from driving trucks to working as waiters, cashiers in the supermarket, security guards, etc. Why? Because there's safety in numbers.

In contrast to "1950's middle-America", or even today's middle America, the most tolerant area in Thailand is Issan, where at least in their home villages most gays are more accepted and far less discriminated against or bullied at school than elsewhere else in the country. Why? Because, by and large, everyone is reatively poor and everyone has to work, and as long as they can do their share no-one cares about who they sleep with (and the village gossips gossip about everyone!).

Bert, many thanks for that. I've never been to one here, but I used to go to the service at the Cenotaph in Hong Kong. I always thought I should go here as so many friends go to the the service in the Embassy, but I've never felt comfortable going there as it seemed to be an intrusion into a British affair, while in a local church it may be more international.

Perhaps its because your name is sweatie rather than the sweetie that throws people off.

What's in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet;

I have been told I post like a woman

That's something to think about.

I can usually tell quite a lot about someone's background by how they write, more than what they write, but I can't even tell their sex let alone their sexual preference. I wonder what gives you away - any ideas???

Given the numbers using the sites, Paul, I think Sweaty's probably got the numbers about right.

Quite - I wasn't saying its impossible, just unusual.

It would acually be quite interesting to know just how those in long term "cross-cultural" reationships (sorry, I can't think of a better way of putting this) met and how they met any previous Thai partners (or farang partners, if you're Thai).

I have never been to a "gay bar" here, although I have in Hong Kong and the UK, but I meet a lot of farangs socially anyway particularly at receptions and parties. I used to think that most of them were scared of me because I am so openly gay (OK, "flamboyant", JL) until I realised that unless they are particularly well educated and travelled themselves they seem to be frightened of anyone who is, particularly if they are Asian. Conversely I have never met so many farangs who appear to be very consertaive and happily married but who are still firmly locked in the closet, who would never dare go into a gay bar anywhere but who start drooling as soon as we meet and who are desperate for a short fling!

Note133, I can't really help with advice on "a serious LTR with the right Farang" as I've never had one (or wanted one, as distinct from several!) but if you need a shoulder to cry on then drop me a PM (in Thai or English).

Is that different to any other in print?

In another topic I was told, among other things, that " In fact, you sound like a straight guy visiting, but all your 11 posts on ThaiVisa (at least under this identity) have been in the gay forum. What gives?"

The idea that its possible to tell sexual preference by how someone writes seems a bit bizarre to me, but no more so than some of the other views here. I have always felt that how someone writes was more an indicator of their education and schooling than their sexual preference, but maybe I'm missing something.

Is there any difference?

Can fonts be gay?

Should I be using another colour?

"What gives", sweeties (or is that a giveaway?)??

So why are you asking here?

Who are your expected readers?

If you're after fellow students, ask them. If you're after aging farangs, and your magazines are going to be free and in English, then you're in the right place.

There are innumerable places in Thailand where Thais can meet farangs and vice-versa - they don't have to be gay bars or gay web-sites.

99% of those Thais I know who use gay websites are what one poster recently politely described as "commercial", in one way or another - they are looking for financial support, short or long term; in most cases (but certainly not all) this means the maximum input for the minimum output.

On the other hand 99% of those farangs I know who do the same are what are commonly known as "cheap charlies" looking for cheap or, preferably, free sex.

Those who are genuinely the 1% who are exceptions have a 99% chance of being immediately disappointed, without even considering long term compatability.

Get out, get a life, and you may be lucky (whoever you are).

.

"for LGBT topics" is pretty short and understandable for most people, SBK.

(edited) But have one question - Gay men say they hate female parts and bodies.

When did they ever see female parts up close and personal?

"Gay men" don't say that, Patsy. People with a problem do.

I asked the same question - maybe it was when they thought all was going well only to be asked "are you in yet?", and they had to take a good look to check! Or maybe it was before Mary-Lou started laughing.

Everyone's an amateur psychiatrist, it's downright comical.

On this disgust thing, this ain't about me as I am just one person, it's about the general pubic ...

Next ...

It's not the "general public" who find the female form (not heterosexual sex acts or genitalia) disgusting, its YOU.

You don't need to be a psychiatrist to spot someone with a problem, honey.

(edited - see above)

Nothing to do with suppression or guilt. It is what it is.

I find this entire guilt/suppression line of analysis a total crock. A gay man may NATURALLY feel disgusted by female genitals. What is he suppressing? What is he feeling guilty about? Being attracted to women, which society promotes and pressures all men to do? It doesn't add up.

Adds up to most genuinely gay men, honey, as well as most people (gay/straight/male/female). Those it doesn't add up to are generally either straight but can't get it up with the opposite sex because of that incident with Mary-Lou so they convince themselves they are gay, or they're straight but suffer from SDS (Small Dick Syndrome) and can't satisfy the opposite sex so they stick their head in the sand (or in a pillow) and do their best to satisfy a gay partner instead.

What's worse for us ladyboys is that these guys, who aren't "naturally" gay, are disgusted by us ladyboys too as they're jealous that we've got what they want but they don't think we want or use it. Believe me, honey, I've got it and I use it. At every opportunity.

All their problems could easily be solved by therapy or surgery, but few of these "gay" guys want to admit it.

None of this may apply to you of course, honey, but I can't help wondering if you are as disgusted by female genitals on other animals, or is it only people? And if you're so "gay", then how have you become so familiar with female human genitalia that you've got an informed opinion?

It just isn't normal or healthy for anyone, male or female, gay or straight, to be instinctively sickened by the female form. It isn't "gay".

Lots of gay people not only appreciate the female form but, as hair stylists and fashion designers, make a living out of working with it. Most of us gays empathise with women and some even try to copy the "female form", to varying degrees and with varying success.

But JingThing, you're not only sickened by the female form but by anything female or even fem. Gays aren't like that.

The only people like that are guys who've been abused as a child by a woman or teased and taunted by girls. Some get over it, but the rest can never relate to women. Some become flashers, a few become serial killers or rapists, and some grow up thinking they're gay. All because they were caught playing show 'n tell with Mary-Lou behind the barn or Mary-Lou laughed at them.

A couple of other guys here asked recently if you're gay, as what you say just isn't "gay" to most people. Now you "have had fantasies about being dominated by a lesbian with a strap on and might even try that in a "normal" setting". Come on - that isn't gay and, probably, neither are you, honey.

The only transsexual regular on Thaivisa (Bambina) spent most of her time in the Farang Pub forum. She spent very little time in here.

Maybe she felt that she wasn't welcome, as I've done for years (I'm TG , not TS).

I've read the forum for longer than I've had boobs, but I've never posted before or joined as we could see weren't wanted here. Even though only a couple of people don't want us they make a lot of noise about it. Maybe things'll change thanks to this poll.

FWIW transexual isn't the same as transgender, but most of us don't like being called trannies or trans-anything by anyone (except a doctor!). If they've had the ops they're transexual and 100% "girls", and none of those I know'll be interested in anything or anyone here (no offence). If not most of us are happy with "ladyboy" or "gay", even if some of you aren't.

There was a post here before suggesting re-naming the forum the Rainbow Forum for LGBTTS matters in Thailand, or something like that, but now that's gone. That would have been . Come on guys, we're not freaks or rejects any more than you are so don't make us feel we are.