fleeing

Can they actually strip a defendants right to a copy of evidence and exhibits that are going to used against a person. Don't people hire lawyers to collect and examine these documents on their behalf?

It is like something out of the dark ages.

Indeed. But it wouldn't surprise me if this was a wonderfully subtle and Thai way of telling Yingluck that if she does turn up, they're not going to 'throw the book' at her. Why otherwise make it clear that any question of indictment would have to be handled by the Senate?

After all, everyone recognises that although she is legally responsible, as a puppet PM it would hardly be fair to insist that she is actually responsible for her brother's hare-brained rice scam.

Well this should keep the conspiracy theorists, from both camps, going for a while.

''Navy commander Admiral Narong Pipatanasai had been told of the arrests and the allegation, and had ordered an investigation into the matter, the spokesman said. He said it was unlikely the five men had anything to do with an attack on anti-government protesters at a rally in Khao Saming in nearby Trat on Saturday night''...

''Muang Rayong police chief Pol Colonel Sukitti Sawaikiat said police documents showed no record of the five being detained''..

The plot thickens?

As if history hasn't provided enough examples, the era of backroom deals must come to an end. The people of this country are tired with everything that happens behind closed doors. Corruption breeds in that environment, and suspicion breeds in that environment as well. I can't imagine what would possess this monk to enter talks with Thaksin's brother-in-law. Doubtless his motives are honest. But the public should run as far from it as possible. It is like taking the argument right back to the source. It's like Keenu Reeves going back to the architect of the Matrix and saying " You know, you have a pretty neat outfit here. Perhaps I jumped to hasty conclusions. "

Interestingly enough according to the BP, Somchai (Wongsawat) was disappointed that Phra Buddha Issara posted the conversation on facebook.

Have a little faith in the monk. Till now he has shown himself to be an astute tactician and negotiator while avoiding violent confrontation. His reported terms for continuing negotiations, that attacks on demonstrators stop for the next 3 to 5 days, may bring a pause to the violence or show that the attackers are totally out of control.

Mrs Thida said the Red Shirt assembly of key leaders nationwide, held in Nakhon Ratchasima on Sunday, was not politically motivated.
The objective was to exchange views among members in light of attempts by some military groups to discredit independent organisations and obstruct the democratic system, she said.

I'm sorry but Thida has lost the plot and the initiative.

Which I don't see as a good thing, because any reforms will ultimately have to involve the people the UDD claim to represent just as much as the protesting rice-farmers, southerners or Bangkok 'elites'.

There might have been thousands around but it would be coincidence if someone just happened to look at a certain spot even assuming that spot would be easy visible. As no one has come forward to tell the police that they saw someone, it would seem covertly launching a grenade into a busy crowded area is easy.

As for expert or not, most likely a on purpose, deliberate firing into a group of people.

With the results the police how shown till now on all nightly shootings and grenade launches I'm afraid the ASAP may be as close as the 29th of February this year. What I find the most disgusting part of this all is that some still continue suggesting that the protesters or Suthep himself must have done this.

Well i did say i could be corrected. I am not sure on the current situation, but previously the police have not even been allowed into some incident areas to investigate. Its all a bit strange, you have a situation where the police are targeted as bad and pro TS, and shot at by people whoever they are, and then they are criticized for not carrying out investigation. On the one hand they are widely distrusted, whilst on the other hand they are criticized for not doing their job among the very people who are shooting at them and criticizing them.

Whilst i expect the bombings and shootings are the work of groups aligned to the Government, i don't rule out the possibility they could be of alternative factions who have other things in mind, such is the fractious nature of Thai politics.

PS all attacks seem to come from OUTSIDE protest areas targetting people inside protest areas. Surely the police wasn't being obstructed in searching where shots or grenades came from

Well as you said, its possible to fire a grenade and be undetected, so how do they know where it came from?...........

I'm no 'hard-man' ex-military munitions expert, but it would appear that the M79 used in this attack has an optimum range of 200 to 350 metres. Simply looking at where it landed would suggest that, unless it was launched from the relatively crowded protest-stage at Ratchaprasong, it was fired from the entrance to the car-park at Central World (unlikely) or Pratunam junction, possibly the car-park attached to Platinum Mall (very likely).

Pure speculation on my part, but a lot more realistic than the assertions coming from the police, Chalerm and some posters here.

A coup, however attractive it may seem as a short-term solution, would not help bring this conflict to a definite end but merely prolong it. It would just be the UDD on the streets instead of the PDRC. It would also expose the fragile nature of democracy in Thailand at a time when it really needs to be strengthened.

Prayuth is well aware of this and, as far as I can tell, that is why he seems to be doing his best to avoid military intervention. Thailand needs to develop, economically, socially and politically. A coup at this time would not effectively help that development in anyway.

The BBC World News' footage of the area showed more military than BIB in attendance and that included Military Police who appeared to be doing Scene of Crime work. So just who was the lead agency ?

I'm sure the investigation will not be enhanced by too many cooks and probably not working in tandem since they come from vastly different organisations not noted for mutual respect and co-operation.

Is this another sleeping dog best left lying ?

Considering that the RTP have about as much credibility as the 'real' Rolex watches on sale at Patpong night market, it might mean that the attack is actually being investigated for a change.

For anyone who doesn't know the area or where the protest stage is, Richard Barrow has kindly made a (google) map available.

http://www.richardbarrow.com/2014/01/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-bangkok-shutdown/

"Chalerm Yoobamrung, who is chief of the government's anti-protest command, said he knew everything about both the attacks, but would reveal details about them later. He also said that launching M79 rounds 100-metres from the rally stage had been done with "the intention of exploiting the violence". He did not elaborate."

He knows everything. Except what to do about anything.

He knows everything. But is still looking for someone, preferably from the South, to 'confess' and implicate some soldiers for the princely sum of 8,000 baht and a new identity?

Yingluk pleads for talks and Suthep is happy with the way this are going and will keeping walking down the road of violence and death

Yingluck pleads for talks, but insists on staying to the last minute.

Chalerm keeps on trying to get permission to get physical with protesters.

Churapong threatens to mobilise 10 million 'shotguns'.

Dab Daeng the rabid policeman gets standing applause from the UDD apparatchiks for the attacks on unarmed protesters in Trat.

Another grenade attack, this time towards the Democrats HQ.

And another day passes with the PDRC demonstrating without killing or maiming anyone.

You don't really believe that the PDRC are so pure and innocent as to not even to use foul language? There are two sides who are injuring each other and people are dying on both sides.

As for the police being responsible for the attack in Trat, I think that is just a little silly.

I don't equate using foul language with 'walking down the road of violence and death' do you?

Dab Daeng is the policeman who was so happy to announce the casualties resulting from the Trat attack to the UDD 'war-drum' meeting, for which he received wild applause.

There are two sides, perhaps three if you believe Yingluck, but till now, as far as I know, 16 of the 20 deaths and just under 700 of the 718 720 (another attack at Lumphini tonight) injured have fallen on the side of the demonstrators or have been random victims. Not so much two sides injuring each other but one side taking pot-shots at the other meeting minimal resistance.

The mention of salbutamol as a hazardous substance used on fresh food is a bit confusing but something to be aware of.

Most people know it as an asthma medicine, usually a spray, that relieves bronchial cramps/asthma attacks.

Apparently it has been used by pig farmers to enhance the red colour of the meat and reduce the amount of fat.

''Consuming pork adulterated with salbutamol over a long period have resulted in many symptoms including muscle cramps or tremors, excitement, headache, nausea, nervousness, vomiting, general body discomfort, increased appetite, increased blood pressure and over activity''.

Basically similar symptoms to overdosing on salbutamol as a medicine

''To avoid buying pork that is adulterated with salbutamol, consumers should look for pork with fat because pigs that have been given salbutamol usually have either low amounts of fat or none at all. If the color of pork is a bright red, consumers can assume that salbutamol is presented''.

Source: http://ssde.nida.ac.th/ojs/index.php/jem/article/download/106/91

Why H90?

What policies is he proposing that would benefit the Issan rice farmers?

Will he maintain the minimum wage? Or roll it back?

All he is promising is -- reform that will lead to an erradication of corruption. The entire world will react much more strongly when their paychecks are halved than were gov't corruption to be halved.

do you honestly think the working poor will welcome a roll back of the minimum wage- that farmers will welcome a lower price (non-subsidized) for their products?

THe rice farmers are NOT protesting the rice buying program- they are protesting that the gov't has not lived up to its end of the deal.

And any future gov't better be prepared to match the offers made by PTP- or they won't get the rice vote.

Similarly- it will be political suicide for those wanting the working poor vote to roll back the minimum wage.

So I can't see your reasoning-

It is curious to me why the apparant support for Suthep by the rubber farmers (who, it can be argued, are more financially secure than the rice farmers--) They too have demanded subsidies equal to those of the rice farmers. Sooner or later Suthep is going to have to say something of political substance--0 they watch the tides turn against HIM.

At present this is a circus and all the razzled dazzle and noise and bluster- all the unrepressed hates and resenstment- the sense of being 'on the team'- has blinded many to the bigger picture- flash and razzle dazzle-- But some day, somebody is going to have to answer to these people- and hating the Shinawatras-= driving them from the land- won't pay for the truck- won't guarantee equal treatment under the law- won't erradicate the middle man, the loan shark.

Thais now expect governments to take an interest in their lives the way that they hadn't till Thaksin rolled up. That's not going to change- and Suthep/Abhisit is going to have to make some clear policy statements once the fireworks are quiet-

Suthep is not proposing policies, as you yourself confirm. He is proposing reforms that will, hopefully, tackle the corruption that at a parliamentary level has divided the nation, and the removal of Thaksin's influence from Thai politics. Any talk about rolling back minimum wage or maintaining the rice scheme at it's current ill affordable levels is just 'whatiffery' of the worst degree.

While it would likely be a waste of police resources to seriously investigate the red-shirt speaker, Deb Daeng's, possible involvement with the attack in Trat, surely the least one could expect of the UDD leadership would be to suspend his membership of the organisation. To take no action at this time will only be interpreted as tacit approval of his encouragement of terrorist attacks, which will only encourage other extremists to go on a killing spree.

"The red shirts' hard core is Thaksin's last resort..."

This quote another attempt to denigrate Electoral Democracy forces by suggesting they are devoid of political intent and are uni-dimensional... It is a form of Elitist arrogance implying they have the market cornered on Political awareness. Their coup-mongering friends with their shadowy supporters are self-servingly doing everything in their power to prevent majority-based governance in an Electoral Democracy, and has nothing to do with Thaksin or the performance of this Govt.

If there was a reference to Thaksin at this gathering in Korat yesterday, I missed it..I'm sure there was, but it was merely in passing....All I saw was a format whereby many regionally-based groups of the UDD/RS's, spoke in order throughout the day, exclaiming vociforously their refusal to buckle-under again, to anti-Democtats seeking to steal their voting selections.

This was not a case of UDD incitement...These were grass-roots voters demanding their votes be respected...It didn't take incitement by the UDD or PTP... These people spoke from the heart, many with fire in their eyes..It didn't take the UDD, or PTP to fire these people up....Suthep and his shadowy supporters with their street antics in BKK, plus their user-friendly courts and Independent agencies have done a very good job of that, all by themselves....In fact by the time Jatuporn and Nathawut spoke, it was later in the day, when many participants had already left.

It was noteworthy that unlike many of these gatherings when participants begin to drift home after Lunch. Yesterday the double-tiered levels of this Gymnasium remained packed throughout the day, listening to regional-based leaders of their own kind...No Centralized leadership needed. The PTP/UDD/RS resistance to Elitist anti-democrats is bottom-up, let no-one be confused about that.

The suggestion that the " PDRC co-leaders declared to end the game by launching an "onslaught" against the caretaker government and Shinawatra business empire" is folderol. Their onslaught is a crass challenge by an unelectable political minority against the majority in an Electoral Democracy. They are self-servingly challenging voter-majority selections, pretending it is against a caretaker Govt. A Govt. they are trying to characterize as having no electoral roots...It is those millions of roots they are up against, and those "majority" roots don't appreciate it, nor will accept it.

That was on prominent display in Korat yesterday.

The amnesty bill that really got this latest conflict started

Did this meeting consider what kind of reforms would be beneficial to Thai society?

Surely all these grass-roots representatives are well aware that the actual participation in this incomplete election was woefully low. Was this discussed and seen as a problem?

Did they find it relevant to discuss that or how to possibly improve it in the future?

These aren't just trick questions. I am genuinely curious to learn that the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members.

>"The amnesty bill that really got this latest conflict started"

This position is erroneous from the get-go.....This amnesty thing was merely a fabricated issue which could easily have been 'Parliamentarized". What started this latest attempt to overthrow an elected government by unelectables - not conforntation as is suggested - is merely a reprise of 2006, by many of the same players....When the amnesty thing didn't work, they went to anti-Thaksinism, then to preventing an election, and so on...With the common denominator being Coup-intentionism by an electoral minority.

>"Did this meeting consider what kind of reforms would be beneficial to Thai society?"

Not the intent of the meeting. Such a question can be "Parliamentarized". The intent of this meeting was not to engage in Parliamentary debate, but provide another shot-across-the-bow to the Elites and their coup intentions, that there will be "hell to pay" if they seek to achieve their objectives on the street, in user-friendly Judicial chambers or their so-called Independent Agencies....... Self-described independence which doesn't fool anyone.

>"Surely all these grass-roots representatives are well aware that the actual participation in this incomplete election was woefully low. Was this discussed and seen as a problem?

Coup-intentioned people maligning an incomplete election as if 'failure' is a fact, sure are afraid to finish it and tabulate it. Explaining that fact explains a lot.

>"These aren't just trick questions. I am genuinely curious to learn that the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members"

I accept them as such, and responded accordingly. Yesterday was definitely an assurance, not that one was needed, that "...the UDD truly is a democratic organisation that defines it's policies based on the wishes and concerns of it's grass-roots members" "....At this point that is not an issue. Defending Electoral Democracy and respecting the votes of the electoral majority is the issue and the UDD/RS are in the forefront of that debate.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and apologies for not responding earlier.

For an outsider it would appear that this 'war-drum' meeting was only really about rallying support to react to events already ongoing. This surprises me with an organisation with leaders with knowledge of political theory such as Thida, who surely knows that as long as you are only reacting, your opponent is winning.

That such an important meeting avoids discussion of pertinent questions about the amnesty bill, popular reforms and the, even in the red-shirt strongholds, poor election participation, creates an impression of a very 'top-down' organized movement, which unfortunately only strengthens, preconceived, impressions of the (un)democratic nature of the UDD and it's apparently marxist inspired organisation form.

I sincerely hope that the UDD can progress to the point where it can welcome open discussion about the problems facing Thailand and it's future, and break free of it's trench (warfare) mentality and dogmatic defence of one self-enriching elite clan.

m.v.g.

The police have been told by the court they are not allowed to use force.. This is what happens and will get worse. RIP little one.

So the police are not allowed to use force against protesters in Bangkok, and that leads to extremely violent force being used against peaceful protesters and bystanders in Trat?

I understand that Veera Prateepchaikul is a controversial journalist for many, but his piece in the other newspaper yesterday raises some pertinent questions about Chada Taiseth's 'captive' rice-farmer convoy.

Well worth a read for those who have unanswered questions about who is using the farmers this time.

So whoopie da! Sue the EC, then the NACC why not the Constitutional, Criminal and Civil Courts as well? Sue everyone who disagrees with Pheu Thai.

In the end it doesn't make a blind bit of difference despite Yingluck's instructions to hang on, cost what it may.

The attempt to force through elections without any effective opposition, quite probably to push big brother's amnesty bill through and no doubt attractive to a monopolist like Thaksin, has failed miserably.

Even if by some miracle it was physically possible to hold the remaining elections according to the terms of the constitution, the result would be a parliament representing a minority of the population. The protests would not only continue but likely increase in strength making the management of the country even more impossible.

The only difference, even if the parliament could convene, would be that the Shinawatras could continue to try to embezzle the country.

There will be no solution until there is some broad agreement on reforms and new elections are held with the participation of all parties.

Did she post a tearful selfie together with her statement?

"The government must not be defeated. This is an order from the people,'' Natthawut said.

The arrogance of this self-centred fanatic is unbelievable. What about the Thai people who do not support your fugitive boss in Dubai?

Meanwhile it would appear that the 'government' is defeating itself through it's own arrogance and ineptitude. Perhaps that should be a timely warning to Natthawaut et al to tone down the rhetoric and actually consider what has gone wrong, before dragging his remaining supporters into a vainglorious 'final battle' that would only lead to more conflict and bloodshed.