fullyunenlightened

there is a monastery about 25km from lopburi that

helps thais with their addictions

name is wat tam krabok. its 5km past prapuddaphat

its free and has a fine success rate

foreigners go too for their heroin and cocain problems

ive done 7 days there. its a first class solution

http://www.thamkrabok.net/

the way i see it, is that food, and anything else the buddhists

put into their bodies are a main contributor to the end of

buddhist practice

the monks, in particular, suffer the most. they dont have much

control of whats in front of them at mealtimes

thai food is very tasty. most of this 'taste' comes from the

condiments the cooks dump into the otherwise bland

rice and vegetables

theres a lot of harmful ingredients in these condiments

such as msg, refined salt, colours, artificial flavouring, white

sugar etc

the oils used to fry with are refined oils, these oils create

havoc in all areas in the body

the rice is bleached and denatured. its stripped of most of

its nutritional value

there is very little organic foodstuffs making their way into

the monks bowls

they are served sweetened homogenized milk drinks

3in1 coffee, coffeemate, ovaltine etc

all of the above are harmful and poisonous

when consumed they result in any number of these effects

tiredness, weakness, diabetes, heart problems, dullness,

lethargy, wrong type of chi energy; scatteredness, inability

to concentrate, hyperactivity etc etc etc

go check it out. youll see a lot of the monks are fat and

overweight, or thin and wasted.

one chieng mai temple i stayed in (wat rampeung) had

over 100 monks residing. the meditation teacher told me

half those monks had diabetes. i was a monk in those

days and went on almsround. everything put into my bowl

was sweet-rice veg even meats and fish. of course there

was unsweetened white rice as staple

not all monks are sick. of course. either they eat very little

or theyre lucky enough to be offered wholesome things.

maybe their meditations help in minimizing the bad effects

i do believe the buddha mentioned the reality of cause and

effect a few times

put a poison into the body and it has an effect. scientifically

proven. the body has its immune system to counter

harmful incoming material. and does so very well. but

when its assaulted too much-the poisons stay in the body.

they are not ejected. the accumulation of poisons lead to

all kinds of big problems

thanks guys for for your response

its getting increasingly difficult to find anything truly

wholesome and nutritious in this modern age where

everywhere you go its being processed, denatured or

poisoned somehow

i was looking for someone who knows a spot having nice,

clean, edible and abundant seaweed. thats not happening.

im getting warnings instead. this confirms my suspicions

ive been to the coast a few times and seen all kinds

of crap in the water and on the sand

i didnt know it had to be boiled. and youve got to be lucky

to find the edible kind in a clean spot

it was worth a try

How to steal a thread.

The OP is probably still hoping someone will answer his question.

theft it is. sometimes i have to use desperate measures

i do have a thread on the cooking forum on this with no replies

this seaweed is important. contains a ton of healthy benefits compared

to the usual stuff we buy

grows on seabed

when tide goes out you can pull it out

and dry it

when dry you can add water and eat raw or cook it

buy in thai markets at about30b for 30 grams

ripoff

in korea you get 1 1kg for 30b if i remember correctly

good for you jim

i couldnt resist it-i went and bought half a kg of fresh

coconut flakes for 30b

added water, squeezed it some, then put the stuff

in cloth bag to get milk out

its sitting there now fermenting. can hardly wait to get

my hands on the oil

im reading a book now---saturated fat may save your life

by bruce fife

its a real eye opener. its an in depth study of conventional oils

and coconut oil

if you want i can email the pdf to you or any one thats interested

well i hope theres non of it in puket for you

bit off topic, if theres any seaweed thats edible growing

on the coast--id like to know about it, please

i'll go straight there, dry it and take it home

spent a few years in korea, left the country with

a strong attachment to the seaweed thats frequently served

buying it in its dry form was very cheap

i can get dried stuff here but very expensive

if i know of a clean source on the coast of thailand, i would

go and pull out a load and dry it

can someone advise me?

Sounds like a case of "takes one to know one".

youre right, oz

i dont cheat anyone now, and not for a long time

but in the past, i done a fair bit. not too much

i believe any good cop that has success in catching crooks

was once a crook himself

you got to think like a crook to catch him-isnt it?

no, jim

this is what i do. i DO it............

been in thailand on and off 4 years

i know their tricks. theyre not clean, not fair

i go to the market every day. i say how much is this

how much is that? 50 baht a kilo!?? are you joking?

that stall over there is only 35. at first theyre defensive

they stick to their guns. dont budge

i go round and round checking on prices. theres always one stallholder

thats new and uncorrupted and offers to sell at the going rate. from

that one i buy. i also know now the going rate

sometmes i go to the shameless rip off stalls and mention

the true rate. i look at them. and i think (not say) "youre a bit

of a cheat, a theif" its a soft thing. but it hits their heart

i do that a few times over a few days. i get to be known that

im not a first-time gullible tourist. i speak their language

and become a 'local'. they know they cant cheat me and they

give up. i know the feeling that accompany s cheating. i let

them know it in subtle ways. it like a mirror

here, in lopburi everyone knows me-at the market-and its

no problem

and its not just the market---its most every body. one has to

haggle. if they still stick to cheating-i go somewhere else

good on yer to point it out, ed

i used s'pore as an example

i used it the same as if i mentioned korea, japan or taiwan

theres where the big money is

thailand? i feel theres too few to appreciate c oil in its optimal form

well, who is there? the farangs. and only farangs. thais are not interested

in things organic. wholefoods? i dont think wholefoods is in their dictionary

i feel theres still a possibility to sell it here- but at great discount 'till you

get a reputation. then of course you up the price

jc......you say they charge up tp 9b a <deleted>. is it because youre farang?

would they charge the same to their thai brothers?

interesting subject

i asked a certain monk one time "i guess the more years as

a monk-the more peaceful he gets?"

he replied "not certain. it depends on his karmas. sometimes

neglected karmas come up and have to be dealt with. dealing

with them is not pleasant. these things have to be endured. its

enduring suffering which leads to the ending of suffering. can have

multiple karmas at on time too. more suffering. yes, there maybe

some peace sometimes but its not recommended to stay there

too long. better, go find situations which bring up more karmas to be

let go of. eg practicing under a 'hard' teacher."

same applies to happiness, i think. you got a lot of heavy karmas

youre not going to experience much happiness. one cause for

happiness is developing lovingkindness. but it could take a long

time before you get fruits from that practice. it isnt as easy as

you thought. (for some people it is easy)

the tibetans say "dont waste your precious human rebirth on a

happy life"

my own teacher had a real contempt for happiness.

yet another tibetan guru said "most of our suffering comes from

trying to be happy"

meditators should have no business per suing/developing

happiness. better they try to let go of it and be free

FUL, a few years ago I was in comtact with a Korean company wanting to buy rubber nuts. All very secret, they would not tell me a price or what it was to be used for. After many months of emails they finally said bio fuel. Price $50 a MT delivered to them. We sell rubber nuts for root stock at near on $200 a MT. Bio fuel is a dream at today's oil prices, maybe in the future oil will raise again and it may be an option. JIm

hi james

bio fuel from cnuts is a major operation

got to have square miles of trees

but this cooking oil thing.......

i plan to go back to a monastery near lopburi within 2 weeks

there, they have cooking facilities and i can try both ways of making the oil

i reckon the just leave it to ferment and rise to the top method

might be the easiest and cheapest way.

im really looking forward to it. like hell am i paying 1000b a litre

notice in the video they got 200ml from just 4 cnuts

200ml in a bottle youd pay 200-250b in the supermarkets

you got a few acres of <deleted> trees and youre sitting on a goldmine

the formula:

just 2 thai villagers @ 250b a day

1 simple mechanical splitter-get the husks off quick

1 industrial-type shredder

hydraulic press

few big ssteel bowls and lids

centrifugal spinner

1 very fine mesh filter

1 super fine filter

fancy looking JARS i say jars not bottles. very hard to

get out of bottles when solidified

fancy looking labels

sell it (initially) at great discount to stores in Singapore

let the 2 guys do everything

spend all of your time trying to decide whether to get

a Bugatti or maserati or maybe Lamborghini

joe

check it out, J

this page http://www.healthfoo...6534ffbc0945b49

hi level products

you serious about pressing it?

i reckon theres big money to be made doing that

Hi there, had a look at the site, bit of a difference in selling coconut oil at a 1000 Baht a liter and selling the end produce at a 1000 Baht a bottle. Think if you look around you will see that raw coconut oil is used as bio Diesel, ego maybe 30 or 40 Baht a liter. If you have some plan and know how to market the stuff etc PM me and we can talk. I have a small rubber factory and plenty of coconut trees in the area. In saying that just don't see it as a money maker, maybe a specialized cottage industry, if you have the contacts to sell the product. Jim

make your own

http://central-america-forum.com/forum-topic/how-make-virgin-coconut-oil

another way is to boil the c milk and skim off the oil

check it out, J

this page http://www.healthfoo...6534ffbc0945b49

hi level products

you serious about pressing it?

i reckon theres big money to be made doing that

Hi there, had a look at the site, bit of a difference in selling coconut oil at a 1000 Baht a liter and selling the end produce at a 1000 Baht a bottle. Think if you look around you will see that raw coconut oil is used as bio Diesel, ego maybe 30 or 40 Baht a liter. If you have some plan and know how to market the stuff etc PM me and we can talk. I have a small rubber factory and plenty of coconut trees in the area. In saying that just don't see it as a money maker, maybe a specialized cottage industry, if you have the contacts to sell the product. Jim

didnt mean to give the impression i might be into business, J

im travelling all over-staying in temples mostly

came across this

or maybe the guy wants to buy by the ton?

thanks fo the fuel oil idea

might try asking truck drivers where they get it

one would be taking a risk though-they wouldnt be too careful

about cleanliness. god knows what might be mixed in it

check it out, J

this page http://www.healthfoodthailand.com/index.php?cPath=2&osCsid=224a41cbcb98404586534ffbc0945b49

hi level products

you serious about pressing it?

i reckon theres big money to be made doing that

organic cold pressed oil--1 litre 1000b

there must be village farmers still doing it the old way

or not?

first class products there B,

1000b a litre i cant afford

theres just got to be some small scale village operation

using the the old ways to extract raw oil

might try asking on the farming forum

at the grocery stores they sell refined c oil 1 litre 62b

but is it hydrogenated?

good info here if anyones interested

I bought some bottles from Tesco Lotus , cost me 200 something.

thanks for that M

200 is a feasible price

i wonder if theres any way to know if its good quality (meaning its

not been processed in the same way as all other oils are these days)

hi

ive recently become aware of the great benefits of coconut oil

been searching to buy some cold pressed/sqeezed oil

closest i got was half litre bags of "refined" c. oil and i was a bit suspicious

ive asked around (lopburi) no one seems to know how to get it

can someone point the way?

ps i dare say it can be bought in special farang supermarkets

for 500b. there must be a cheap way

I have no intention at all to change the rule breaking monks behaviour.

There is probably not even one reading this forum.

I, for one, see some real benefits in the rules being reviewed and monks valued more for their practice of Dhamma and their ability to inspire others with the values exemplified by the Buddha than for their elite untouchability and social dependence. They would serve the community better as "Boon-makers" than "Boon-receivers". Having said that, I'm sure there are many who are already exemplary, and a change of rules may not make much difference to them. It may liberate them though to be a brighter light on the hill for Thai society instead of the entrenched hieratic slew they occupy now.

The Sangha in Thailand is a self-serving elite kept in place by elite-loving Thais who in former times genuinely respected and loved the monks because they contributed to village life in many ways - in many cases by breaking the rules. Those times, captured by writers like Sulak Sivaraksa and Kamala Tiyavanich, are no longer with us and cannot be retrieved. The new era requires a broader sangha - male and female, monastic and lay - and a focus on mutual support and shared productivity based on a simple lifestyle together with vigorous teaching and self-education programmes for adults and children.

Phra Photiraksa and his Santi Asoke movement is a good example of what a blend of traditional monastic vinaya and authentic Buddhist practice can be, but it's too strict for most people (though one doesn't have to be a full member). Santi Asoke, however, has been ostracised by the official Sangha in Thailand (after initial attempts to criminalise it by invoking state power as the legitimising agent for Thai Buddhism). To practise Dhamma in an authentic, generous-spirited and inclusive manner in this country is to invite legal sanctions and contempt, as experienced by Samanera Photiraksa and Dhammananda Bhikkhuni (head of the community of nuns in Nakhorn Pathom). Even conservative abbots like Ajahn Brahm in Perth have been excluded from the Ajahn Chah network for ordaining bhikkhunis, thereby "breaking the rules".

It's very hard for intelligent monks with insight and foresight to break through the stultifying structures and archaic rules of current fossilised Thai Buddhism. They can do it if they have some charisma and a gift for teaching and writing, but how much more creative and influential they could be if there were some loosening of the reins.

but how much more creative and influential they could be if there were some loosening of the reins.

good post

ok, heres my position....

according to the pali scriptures

the buddha said

if the king is bad

the ministers become bad

the whole country becomes bad

(or words to that effect)

using that as criterion....

dont blame society for the current state its in

blame the government

dont blame the monks for their

slack ways

blame the sangharaja and his (ministers)

the elite ruling monks that contribute their votes

to any major change

its my opinion that they are kept tightly reigned in

they are instructed to leave things the way they are

you have to use inference to determine why

my inferential conclusion would not go down

very well on this forum

but ill give it if im really pushed

well thats pretty good if you can see it

years ago when i was studying with the

tibetan gelukpas-they looked down upon the chinese-based

mahayana as 'mind only' one step nearer to

their own (ultimate view) madyamika

cant say that i see what you see

but for me its an inspiring teaching

it propels you to try it

and try it i did

its not easy!

normally, this practice cannot be done

not with the ordinary mind/operating mode

people start their meditation sitting with

but

if one asks the question...."what is it that looks through these eyes?"

theres a good chance of entering a different, more refined

clarity/detatchment of mind than usual

in this state i find i can do this not-fixing practice

not for long----hel_l, its got to be practised!

this state gives the advantage that one

already is in a more detatched state

and any potential attatchable object that comes into view....

one is in a better position to properly deal with it

I was thinking about monkhood as it is in Thailand. There is quite a number of young boys entering monkhood - out of different reasons - and one cannot expect the same of them as from the older Monks. As far as I know Siddhartha Gautama himself stepped in monklife at the age of 29 after reaching adulthood, entering marriage and becoming a father! It is at the least acceptable to see young boys need rules. Adult Monks should know the rules and have a moral compass developed out of understanding the rules as to be guidelines. It is clear that adults quite often do not have an inner moral compass. So we have to see the situation shows that there are adult people who have no inner moral compass and do not follow the rules of being a monk when being a monk for shorter or longer period of time.

I think it is very nice to look at the idea we would have temporary doctors, policeman, government officials, business man, judges, politicians.

We do have. It is not hard to imagine we have them also temporary. People die, or change profession, I do not see this is a dissadvantage in itself as long as they realy have been doctors, policeman and so on at the time they were.

The problem is not if they are permanent or not in their profession but if they are professional in the time they are.

I would say, the situation as described here is more the situation the doctor is no doctor, the policeman is no policeman at the time he 'pretend ' to be.

This observed fact is answered by absence of respect.

So if we would stay by this maybe we could have more understanding when we imagine the situation somebody pretends to be a policeman, wears the uniform, but in fact is no professional policeman. Why would such a person do so? Out of what intentions? How could it be possible to pretend you are a policeman while in fact you are not? What would the consequence be within the society he lives in, in a western country? in Thailand?

I do not know much about the priest or monkrules in the catholic Church, allthough I am aware there have been quite a number, now and in the past, of Catholic religious people, who had or have no inner moral compass too, but this - as far as I know - most of the time has been hidden, but what happens when a catholic priest or monk would visibly not follow the rules? I do not ask this to start a discussion about the catholic situation but to hand some thoughts to see the situation as it is in Thailand.

Writing this I have to think about Krishnamurti. He rejected the situation and the idea to have followers. There are nice stories about how he handled people who tried to become fans and followers. When I visited his talks it was very interesting to see how easy this attitude still arose within people visiting his talks. But at the moment we have no ' Krishnamurti Monks' and so also no ' Krishnamurti Monk problems'. The teachings of Krishnamurti however still exists - thanks to bookprint and other media.

And people have to stay within their individual freedom and reponsibillity when dealing with the teachings of Krishnamurti.

you are not wrong about rule breaking monks

and your logic seems sound

reasonable critism

but one things for sure

you will not change these monks' behaviour

they and their kind will go on as theve always done

theres nothing you can do about it

farang, hi

im a great fan of zen too

this piece on non abiding is absolutely awesome

written about 600 years ago

a letter from zen master to samuri

full text http://www.daikonforge.com/downloads/TheUnfetteredMind.pdf

WHERE ONE PUTS THE MIND

We say that:

If one puts his mind in the action of his opponent's body, his mind will be taken by the action of his opponent's body.[6]

If he puts his mind in his opponent's sword, his mind will be taken by that sword.

If he puts his mind in thoughts of his opponent's intention to strike him, his mind will be taken by thoughts of his opponent's intention to strike him.

If he puts his mind in his own sword, his mind will be taken by his own sword.

If he puts his mind in his own intention of not being struck, his mind will be taken by his intention of not being struck.

If he puts his mind in the other man's stance, his mind will be taken by the other man's stance.

What this means is that there is no place to put the mind.

A certain person once said, "No matter where I put my mind, my intentions are held in check in the place where my mind goes, and I lose to my opponent. Because of that, I place my mind just below my navel and do not let it wander. [7] Thus am I able to change according to the actions of my opponent."

This is reasonable. But viewed from the highest standpoint of Buddhism, putting the mind just below the navel and not allowing it to wander is a low level of understanding, not a high one. It is at the level of discipline and training. It is at the level of seriousness. Or of Mencius' saying, "Seek after the lost mind."[8] This is not the highest level either. It has the sense of seriousness. As for the "lost mind," I have written about this elsewhere, and you can take a look at it there.

If you consider putting your mind below your navel and, not letting it wander, your mind will be taken by the mind that thinks of this plan. You will have no ability to move ahead and will be exceptionally unfree.

This leads to the next question, "If putting my mind below my navel leaves me unable to function and without freedom, it is of no use. In what part of my body, then, should I put my mind?"

I answered, "If you put it in your right hand, it will be taken by the right hand and your body will lack its functioning. If you put your mind in the eye, it will be taken by the eye, and your body will lack its functioning. If you put your mind in your right foot, your mind will be taken by the right foot, and your body will lack its functioning.

"No matter where you put it, if you put the mind in one place, the rest of your body will lack its functioning."

"Well, then, where does one put his mind?"

I answered, "If you don't put it anywhere, it will go to all parts of your body and extend throughout its entirety. In this way, when it enters your hand, it will realize the hand's function. When it enters your foot, it will realize the foot's function. When it enters your eye, it will realize the eye's function.

"If you should decide on one place and put the mind there, it will be taken by that place and lose its function. If one thinks, he will be taken by his thoughts.

"Because this is so, leave aside thoughts and discrimination, throw the mind away from the entire body, do not stop it here and there, and when it does visit these various places, it will realize function and action without error."

Putting the mind in one place is called falling into one-sidedness. One-sidedness is said to be bias in one place. Correctness is in moving about anywhere. The Correct Mind shows itself by extending the mind throughout the body. It is not biased in anyone place.

When the mind is biased in one place and lacking in another, it is called a one-sided mind. One-sidedness is despicable. To be arrested by anything, no matter what, is falling into one-sidedness and is despised by those traveling the Way.

When a person does not think, "Where shall I put it?" the mind will extend throughout the entire body and move about to any place at all.