soomak

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

The life expectancy of poor Thais is not high, all done and gone by 60 most of them so they will not be the problem.

The report says the life expectancy is 75 for men, 82 for women, so its about 78 on average.

I'm sure the poor live less on average, but 60 seems to be too low. Maybe 72.

On 1/27/2018 at 10:00 PM, poanoi said:

wow ! but, whats the catch ?

is it shit quality all over the place or what ?

Yes

(lived there 2+ years)

You are comparing the Thais to western people, that's not the right comparison IMO.

Compare them to Thais in 1960, you will be amazed at the difference in the standard of living, especially in urban areas.

My ex-gf managed to buy a small townhouse (on a mortgage, but still), own a car, and even bought another small condo for investment, and all that from working in a bank.

I would say that's more than most people in my home country can accomplish.

On 12/7/2017 at 4:40 PM, pattsman42 said:

This thread would be most helpful if we simply listed the advantages and disadvantages of each country and let the readers draw their own conclusions about which place is best based on how much weight they themselves give to each point.

 

For example:

 

In the Philippines the internet is poor even in Manila. This would be a big factor for a digital nomad but relatively unimportant for someone who doesn't even know how to open a laptop. However the retirement visa requirements are easier in the Philippines, this would be important for someone without much money but not important to someone who could afford a Thailand Elite Card.

 

For those wanting to fit in by learning the local language, Tagalog would be relatively easy where as Thai would be extremely  difficult.

 

Cheap hotels in the Philippines are usually quite scummy and you need to above a certain price point to be sure of something decent. Cheap hotels in Thailand are often very good value and only cost less because they are a few streets away from attractions and services. I've stayed in a nice US$25 a night place in Bangkok where as that price will get you a dump in Manila.

 

Etc.

You are right, and I tried to do exactly that in my post.

On 11/22/2017 at 1:20 PM, taipeir said:

Thailand could boom again if it continues to transition to a regional services economy taking some of the spillover from Singapore for example. Property, finance, tech services...that's the only way they can beat the slowdown,.if it wants to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually find it very unlikely that Thailand would boom again, as the culture and education system do not support a booming finance or tech industry.

Tourism, property market, manufacturing, those are the growth drivers of Thailand, but not enough to be anywhere near the developed Asian nations such as Singapore, South Korea, Japan or Hong Kong.

Personally I don't see Thailand becoming a high income economy in the next 20 years, but anything can happen...

On 11/17/2017 at 11:48 AM, natway09 said:

In some ways Cadbury you are using countries to compare that are 10-15 years behind Thailand in 

development.

 

Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar are 40-50 years behind Thailand in terms of economic development.

Vietnam is 25 years behind.

Its really not a fair comparison, as growth usually slows when a country gets more developed.

Still, Thailand could grow faster with a better government.

21 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I pay 1200 baht for 200 MB/s fibre optic, 3BB.

Also 600 baht for fibre optic from sinet, but only 100 Mb/ s

 

For 600 baht you can get 3Mb in the Philippines.

And actually its less than 3Mb, since all their plans say "Up to 3Mb".

They don't commit to a minimum speed.

59 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

2 factually incorrect, rent, same long term, more expensive as a tourist in PI, data plan on my phone, 300bht (AIS) Vs 300peso (SMART) and SMART throw in all I can eat SMS per month.

 

Yes, we know you like to argue...

I paid between 15-18K baht for apartments in a condominium in Bkk.

In Makati/BGC/Manila you may get a tiny 27 sqm condo for this price.

I ended up in a 33K peso per month apartment, which at current rates is 21.5K Baht.

As for internet:

DSL/cable internet in Phil is between 1,000-1,300 peso (650-850 baht) for 3Mb, and 2,900 peso (1,900 baht) for 50Mb.

In Thailand I paid 640 baht for 10Mb plan, and that was in 2014. Its probably faster by now for the same price.

On 11/12/2017 at 11:10 AM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

How is the traffic in manila? A lot of crazy drivers like in Bangkok?

Traffic is really not dangerous, just extremely congested.

Many times for example, it would take you 45 minutes for a 4km ride in Makati.

And public transportation is really bad.

On 11/4/2017 at 4:53 AM, Aussieroaming said:

And if you want to cook your own food there's plenty of supermarkets that stock fresh imported products (fresh and processed)Try this link if you want to see the food diversity.

http://filipinofoodaficionado.blogspot.com/2011/10/philippine-regional-specialties.html

Yes, there are supermarkets, but the price of fruits and vegetable is about twice that of Thailand, and the variety (of fruit) is smaller.

Also, getting to the supermarket is more complicated, as public transportation is crap, and the traffic is horrible.

In bkk you can usually take the BTS to the supermarket, or just a very short taxi ride.

On 11/2/2017 at 9:21 PM, Elkski said:

My question is what are the pros and cons of retirement in each country? and why?

 Of course I would go visit any country many times including  taking a 4-6 month or longer look before I would consider a official move to  retire there. But so far I have only looking in Thailand and I wonder if I should expand my search to the Philippines. 

I was hoping to get more factual specifics than just stinks.. NYC and LA and Thailand stink compared to fresh mountain air of UTAH.

I do hear the food is not as healthy or tasty in the Philippines.

 

This may just be a Toyota vs Honda type preference for many.   I've read where some men think gals from certain Asian countries are better looking but I don't believe it is proper to make such generalizations. 

 

Ok, if the question is about retirement, here is my answer (I thought its about the looks of women...)

1. Thailand is much much more developed.

I would say 20 - 25 years ahead of the Philippines

2. Food in Thailand is so much better, there is no comparison really.

Fruit and veggies are better, cheaper, more abundant (at least when comparing big cities)

Street food is better, healthier, cleaner, more varied.

3. Roads in Thailand are much better

5. Rent in Thailand is cheaper (I would say 20% lower for similar accommodations)

5. Internet and mobile costs are cheaper in Thailand (and the internet is faster)

6. Electricity costs are lower in Thailand

So does the Philippines have any advantages ?

1. Women are friendlier, and adore foreigners (especially white, but not exclusively)

2. Easier to stay for long term.

They have a system where you put USD 20K in a Philippine bank, and can stay permanently there, and even work if I'm not mistaken.

3. Most people speak descent English, so communication is much easier

I lived in Thailand for 3+ years, and in the Philippines for 2 years.

Here is my thoughts on the matter:

Thai women:

1. Are more beautiful (this is according to my personal taste of course)

2. Have clearer skin

3. Are slimmer on average

Filipinas (Philippine women):

1. Have bigger, rounder butts

2. Have bigger boobs too

3. Tend to be chubbier, and some are actually fat (something you rarely see in Thailand)

4. Often have moles, even facial moles, while Thais almost never have any

5. Like foreigners (especially white men), much more than Thai girls do

6. Speak English much much better than Thais, so communication is much easier

7. Almost all are Catholic, but many are not really religious.

For example my ex-gf never been to church (except for a wedding or baptism ceremony) in the 1.5 years we have been together.

On 11/5/2017 at 4:19 AM, torrzent said:

OK...you may be right

Redoing the math, assuming 10 pairs each of everything and getting 2 days usage out of each.

That is one wash every 20 days for around 40 baht, or average of 60 baht per month, 720 baht per year.  Pretty good deal!

Underwear and T-Shirt in Thailand's hot weather must be changed daily, otherwise its just disgusting.

On 10/31/2017 at 3:29 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

I don't believe I've every seen a person over 70, living a life I considered worth living.

Productive years? In whose opinion?

My father is 70 yrs old.

He is working full time (by his choice, he likes his job), exercising, going to the beach, traveled abroad 4 times this year. I don't think anyone can claim that its not worth it to live like him.

Same goes to my uncle, 75. Although he is retired already.

As long as you keep yourself healthy, and have some money to spend, you can have a good life even at 75-80.

EDIT: seems the question was two years ago, so my answer is not relevant anymore...

Yet not one arrest for the actual alleged corruption.. Something is seriously wrong on this subject!

You mean something is seriously wrong with this country, not subject.

Steal public money - mai pen rai; complain about the stealing on Facebook - they will come after you like mad dogs.

Lovely country, truly a land of smiles and happiness.

What hogwash. Fear of radical Muslims is not racism. It is common sense. They are intent on destroying us and are quite blatant about broadcasting it.

Not to mention Islam is not a race, but a religion/belief system.

There are Asian muslims (Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, even China)

Black African muslims (Sudan, Nigeria, etc)

Arab muslims

Pakistani/Indian muslims

European muslims (Bosnia, Turkey, and those living in Germany, France, UK etc)

African American muslims

The problem is not their race (which of course there isn't one), but the belief system of radical/pious muslims, which was great for the 10th century but does'nt fit in a 21st century Democracy.

The buildings don't really matter. The people do. And there is no doubt that Thai people have started to change since they were persuaded aboard the consumer bandwagon, enslaved by debt and drip-fed spurious Western values.

Living standards may have risen - but at what cost as rampant materialism and narcissism combine to drive out care, compassion, a sense of community and other human values that are hallmarks of a civilised society.

Material possessions do not bring lasting happiness. You may own a new house, a car, washing machine, fridge, an expensive smartphone and the latest state-of-the-art digital entertainment centre. But, as the good book observes, if you have not charity you have nothing.

The Thai people's biggest mistake was not being unable to resist the siren call of the consumerist West. It was failing to heed the clarion call of self-sufficiency from their visionary King - a message which, as the unfettered exploitation of natural resources threatens Man's very survival, the whole world needs urgently to take to heart.

What a birthday present that would be!

A sufficiency economy? Is that the one where the poor just accept their lot?

He is probably referring to the examples of the great civilizations of North Korea, Cuba and the former Soviet Union, who resisted "western values" and became a pillar of happiness and prosperity...

Myanmar is another example that comes to mind, although they just awaken from 40 years of segregation to realize that maybe there is some sense in striving to have better healthcare, better education, longer life, lower crime rates, human rights, a centralized social safety net, freedom of speech, and all those other horrible things the "western civilizations" has brought on us...

Putin/Russia are certainly very serious about fighting all enemies of Assad in Syria. They bomb ISIS, which is a very positive thing. They also bomb other Syrian rebel forces, some of which are Muslim fanatics, while others are "normal" people who want to overthrow a pretty brutal dictator. So mixed feelings about this issue.

But overall, Assad, although a dictator and an unlikable leader by almost anyone even in Syria, was certainly better than what we are seeing now going on in Syria.

The big question is what will happen when ISIS is defeated? putting Assad back in charge will not work and will not be accepted by the US and some EU countries.

Free elections? Democracy? unfortunately that hasn't worked yet in any Arab country ...

In Thailand a medium level clerk earns about 10,000 Baht per month, while the cheapest new car is about 700,000 Baht = 70 times.

In Europe, a medium level clerk earns about 3,000 Euro per month, while the cheapest new car is 9,000 Euro = 3 times.

Second hand car prices are even more outrageous here, compared with almost anywhere else in the world.

Malaysians are enslaved to their cars - the govt owns half of the car manufacturing so has little incentive to provide good public transport - especially far away from the tourist view... Many (poor) families have more than one car and loans run up to 9 years! Thais should take note and not let the same happen here.

Hopefully ASEAN will shake things up. Any change will be good.

You are right about second hand prices, but just a small correction: cheapest new cars in Thailand were around 400-450,000 Baht (before any new excise tax increases)

http://www.honda.co.th/th/brio

http://www.carsut.com/mitsubishi-mirage-launched-from-380000-baht-with-22km-liter/

http://www.toyota.co.th/en/model/yaris

Its mostly a clash between two overly aggressive semi-fascist leaders, who look for every chance to prove their manhood and toughness.

It seems like the shooting down of the Russian bomber was a misunderstanding, not likely that it was an intentional shoot down of a Russian plane.

And by the way, many Turkish people are not religious and many don't support Arduan and his fascist-muslim party.

Trying to paint Turkey as anything close to the extreme muslim regimes of the Gulf or as a supporter of ISIS is just wrong. Fortunately to us all Turkey is still one of the most secular muslim countries, regardless of Arduan's efforts to change that.

So tell me who get's a pension in Thailand I know former government employees do

maybe teachers but what about the old ladies selling fried chicken or bananas

do they get a pension as well since they never paid in to a pension fund or taxes

The old ladies selling fried chicken, fruit and orange juice, along with any other self-employed person in Thailand, do not get a pension.

What they do get is a very low (people mentioned php 500-800 per month) monthly payment from the government that's given to old people.

I'm guessing the minimum age to receive such a payment is 55 (the retirement age), but I don't know.

They get as much as their children can afford to send them on a monthly basis. Thailand's informal pension plan. God bless these kids. All my kids at home tell me they expect money when I die. Coming to Thailand sure opened my eyes on this subject. Families keep putting so much emphasis on having sons but its the daughters that do ALL the heavy lifting. That's why older farangs like myself are so in style.

Nothing special or unique about "Thailand's informal pension plan"... making children so that they take care of you when you are old was the norm all over the world, and still is the norm in most poor / developing countries.

I recall the modern social security system was invented in Germany circa 1870, but maybe I'm wrong here.

Personally I think a national social security method is better, as it also takes care of those without kids and those who's kids can't help them.

BTW, for a country without a functional social security plan for old age, Thai's seem to have very few children - roughly 1.6-1.8 per woman on average. So there seems to be a bit of conundrum here.

So tell me who get's a pension in Thailand I know former government employees do

maybe teachers but what about the old ladies selling fried chicken or bananas

do they get a pension as well since they never paid in to a pension fund or taxes

The old ladies selling fried chicken, fruit and orange juice, along with any other self-employed person in Thailand, do not get a pension.

What they do get is a very low (people mentioned php 500-800 per month) monthly payment from the government that's given to old people.

I'm guessing the minimum age to receive such a payment is 55 (the retirement age), but I don't know.

Remember, any pension system is about existing workers paying into the system, to pay for today's pensioners. When today's workers retire, well, they get their money from new workers. The system is NOT about "you work, put some food into tin cans, you stop working in the future, and you open up the tin cans of food you built up, that is your food for the future". It IS about "you work, you give food to existing old people, you retire, new workers hand out food to you".

What it all means is, society needs to have lots of people to work, in order to support old people. There's no way of getting round this. It gets a bit scary when in the future, some countries will end up having 40% or 50% of their population over 65 and collecting a pension. Its not going to work, something must give.

That may be true in your country, but not in all countries.

In my country, in the private sector (80% of the employees), employees & employers put money into a pension fund which is the employee's private fund.

When you retire, you either withdraw the entire amount which accumulated in your fund, or receive a monthly payment based on how much is in your fund, the life expectancy, etc. In other words: you get what you put in.

Government employees on the other hand receive a monthly payment based on their last salary and their years of employment. So there is going to be a deficit only in the public sector, unless the monthly payments are reduced or monthly deductions increase.

Agree, and I would add Greece and parts of Italy, which IMO have better food, weather, nature, culture, are cleaner, safer and in many cases friendlier - you can have a real conversation with people about a variety of topics.

Thailand's only advantages over these European countries are the availability of younger women, lower cost of living and easy retirement visa for those over 50.

Not sure the cost of living in Spain is any lower than Thailand, especially if you like wine and cheese.

As for VISA, I don't need one, I have the right to live with my family and work in any EEC country.

Did you mean "not sure the cost of living in Thailand is any lower than Spain" ?

Well many things are cheaper in Thailand, but certainly not Western and Mediterranean food.