121Advice

And yes, I very much agree with an alternative post where it states that very well run condo developments do indeed hold their value. There are numerous poor ones for every good one though, so caveat emptor etc etc.. Older units tend to be larger than the more modern shoe boxes and I agree that these can be rented out much more easily (if you are so inclined to do so). The REAL money of course is in the land. Buying and sitting on it. Of course that's not particularly feasible unless you are either Thai or have balls of steel!! (No I am not even going to venture into the realms of Thai company setups or should that be "stitch ups?") I shall leave that for others to justify..... Dicey ground.

The very start of my second post states...."IF ANYTHING"....... It does not say DO IT!

Someone has an axe to grind by the looks of it.

Pure economics would indicate a bias toward investing in areas where property prices are depressed. I would suggest therefore if someone has a burning desire to invest in property (speculatively and NOT as a home) then other countries afford better value right now. For the purpose of this enquiry there is always a fine line between direct comparisons and simple logic. The latter would suggest renting due to inflated prices and over supply. This being the case, if the enquirer is sitting on capital I would advise holding it in cash offshore/out of Thailand in a common currency. Short term there is likely to be no Thai Baht devaluation agreed, but logger term regal & fiscal concerns could well undermine the Thai Baht. At current FX levels why invest in something via the Baht - you would likely get hit hard longer term "if" "when" exchange rates return to pre-2008 levels. I see little harm in adopting a more cautious rental stance and deem it prudent at this juncture.

If anything you would be better off buying property anywhere in the EU right now.... High rental yields, no one can get a mortgage and prices have downward pressure. I do not and have not sought any gain from these comments. The original post was concerning whether to buy or not. I say NO, if you say otherwise then good luck - but I stick to my renting argument for Thailand!

Offshore as in country of domicile or elsewhere as cash. Not in market or otherwise. No pot, no kettle, no jumping to conclusions!! Why oh why do so many Thai Visa respondents seem to read more than what is actually written?

IFA or not, it's simple common sense! Don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out! Sure some may have specific reasons to buy - but they are the minority. Leave your capital offshore and don't get cocky. No regrets

Strange then how one client has just taken 35% TFC from his Mauritius based QROPs? Perhaps another example of the QROPs minefield? Not my speciality so I'm as unsure as the next person!

DON'T! Rent and then if the neighbours from hell move in you can move. If you lose your view you can move. If the Baht depreciates you will feel ecstatic and if you ever decide to leave you can simply walk away....

Unless you really know what you are doing and are comfortable trading quickly listen to your Grandmother and stay overweight cash. Most day traders win small & lose big! Nobody knows the true state of global economies right now. Sure gamble if you want to or invest via an alternative more secure means and sleep at night. The majority of my high net worth investors are out of the market. Their choice and I don't blame them. Too many uncertainties at present. Better to buy property in UK perhaps? Banks aren't lending so rental yields are sky high etc... Just a thought...

Good replies and I agree. Dongles are a great standby for use when your wifi drops out. File downloads should not be a problem as generally they will pause until the Internet connection is replaced. Light users can get away with just a dongle and/or using their phone service hot spots if they are available but in your case you would be much better off via wifi. I agree with the above comments.

Forget speed tests using BKK servers unless you are Thai and accessing local Thai websites. If you are a ferrang viewing international sites you have to link your speed test via an appropriately close server in the country of choice (in UK for example). You will notice a huge difference in speed and reliability as ISPs in Thailand throttle international access due to the simple fact that they do not pay enough money to provide super fast international access, period. Local speed tests are a complete waste of time unless you are Thai and viewing mainly localised content on the web. If you wish for super fast international access at an affordable price then unfortunately you will be sorely disappointed. Thailand hasn't even got 3G yet (still arguing over who gets what company infighting etc) when neighbouring countries are now rolling out 4G!! It is what it is and ferrang are minority international customers. Core users are Thai and 95% of thief web usage is on local sites. Things are slowly improving and costs falling, but its one of those frustrations we have to simply live with. It was only 10 years ago that I needed a satellite phone to check my emails here! Forget dedicated lines unless you are corporate as these are ridiculously priced.

Very useful links to relevant HMRC guidelines. I thought it worth pointing out that regarding the second link (receiving free NHS treatment as a visitor) you will see that it specifically states that the diagnosis has to be "whilst in the UK" and excludes pre-existing medical conditions, prevalent prior to entering the country etc etc.. In the above example free NHS treatment would not apply under the visitor rules..

In April 2012 the government propose the introduction of an "expat test" which is mainly concerned with expats proving beyond any reasonable doubt that they are indeed expats and if so, can benefit from several well documented tax savings etc.. What will be interesting (and I certainly have no idea where this test will lead) but I suspect any such 'qualification test" that is successfully passed, could also be used at some future point to beat you with? i.e. Hey, you're an expat - pay for your treatment Mr! Just a thought - I guess time will tell....

Can't argue - although FYI it is possible to get a 1yr ED Visa without leaving Thailand (my GF is Filipino and has done this) but I do appreciate that different rules apply to ASEAN/non-ASEAN members blah, blah blah... And of course immigration rules seem to change just as frequently as the weather back in Blighty! Thank you for taking the trouble to post your itinerary - most informative/enjoyable read. If everyone's circumstances were the same life would be rather dull for sure:)

So, about the same overall cost as a 1 year Educational Visa? OK, sounds like you had an enjoyable trip, but doing all this on a regular basis? Surely a few hours "attendance" learning Thai weekly would be just as productive and ultimately save you a considerable sum? Just a thought... The Pizza and Leffe did look YUMMY though!!

Im not against the SET and there is certainly some value. However, one basic principle (and prudence) is to stick to your doorstep. The SET was Asia's best performing index in 2010 which is fine. Last year it was Philippines. Asian markets are a tad 'frothy' (IMHO) and you should never back last years' winners etc etc.. If you are US/EU then these markets have lots of shares on low P/E ratios, great mid-term prospects and high divi yields. Why go hunting in the SET when there is great value on home turf? Any income gains in Thailand can easily be wiped-out should there be MORE political uncertainty and/or any issues over the delicate subject of the monarchy... (say no more on the latter for obvious reasons)....

The SET has evolved into a popular medium to legally gamble in the LOS but prices are at the high end. With many US/EU stocks at bargain basement valuations do what Warren Buffet does.. "When the greedy get fearful the fearful get greedy...." A simple stock like Apple would have tripled your money in 2 years & with sooooo much cash on the balance sheet (with more amassing now iPad3 is launching) they'll pay a hefty divi soon for sure.. Facebook will be an interesting one to watch. So many 'experts' slagging it off but the advertising revenue potential is astonishing..

If you like a product or a service and are impressed by the firm - BUY IT! Don't follow the crowd and you will do well. Technical analysis is good homework but all the data is openly available to everyone, so even the professionals get tied up in knots. Fundamentally economic crisis is a buying opportunity. Remember the 1970's UK depression, the tech bubble late 90's/00's? Followed by a good few years of PROFITS! The eurozone may be on its knees but it 'aint dead. Likewise the US (love it or loathe it) has turned the corner.. If you drink Coke buy the stock, if you shop in Asda or Tesco - buy the stock. That is of absolutely no use to a day trader or anyone looking for short term gains. For every individual making a quick profit there are a 100 who loose. As you are seeking good divis it looks like you are in it for the long term - much easier that way and a good philosophy to adopt. There's a SALE ON in europe and the US. Fill your boots and grab a bargain!

VERY funny Salavan. Your post did make me chuckle. I don't think we're going to see the demise of Sterling just yet, but as loo paper goes, it's the cheap rough-stuff compared to the luxuriously velvety Baht!

If your wife/partner has any overseas income and is 'ordinarily resident' in the UK then yes - you need to declare it. However, unless she is a property magnet and/or has more income from elsewhere, the rent would have to exceed her income tax 'nil rate band' (£7,474 2011/12) before any tax is due; and then at the lowest rate first etc..

On top of this - many owners [annually] conveniently find costs to offset some of the rental income i.e. maintenance, redecorating, agent fees etc - all of which can be offset against the gross rent received. Any local taxation can also be deducted under the dual partisan tax treaty Thailand has with many countries, including the UK.

Another option if she has a high income well in access of the threshold mentioned above, would be to place a minority holding in another family name (possible transfer of ownership fees apply!!) which would dilute the income in her name proportionately. This may not be feasible if the figures involved are relatively small - but certainly it is a route high net worth individuals/couples have taken in the past.

Of course many will simply not declare any rental income, if it is received in Thai Baht and remains in Thailand and not repatriated to a UK account. If any element of the rental income is transferred to the UK - then don't think for one minute the Revenue will turn a blind eye to it - You might get away with it for several years - but when they do catch-up with you, you WILL be liable to huge underpayment penalties that would cripple you!! And yes, HMRC are very much in bed with the Thai tax authorities and could force-sell the condo prior to any bankruptcy proceedings - not matter what, they will get their dues ) If the money remains in Thailand - well, your wife can chose to be the white knight or dark horse.. Up to her!

I appreciated your sarcastic retort regarding the tuk tuks and jet ski's.... When I read they other guys comment stating no mention of them in the report? I did chuckle.. he obviously didn't get your witticism.. His reply was more funny that the thought of Russians ripping off Russians!

I couldn't agree more!!

Typical of high ranking officers to try and shift the limelight away from the rip-off thai mafia toward the 'illegals' in Thailand.

Phuket has been a tourist rip-off destination for several years and absolutely NOTHING has ever been done about it.

GREED GREED GREED. It isn't going to change soon. Thai's respect money too much - irrespective of how it's obtained....

There are several places in the world that although not so developed as Phuket or with Thailand's infrastructure are catching up quickly, but with what seems to me a more strict and controlled development philosophy. Time will tell - but expecting high ranking Thai officials to actually risk their lives to make a positive difference (without personal gain) is 'blue sky thinking'. Thailand has had a "brush it under the carpet" attitude to anything bad for DECADES! (purely my opinion of course).

You're right and that should have read "this quarter".. Along with a $5m stake in iShares Gold Trust.

The Wall Street Journal's 'hints' of large sell-offs were obviously correct.

Many investors have been biting their nails since Christmas!

Equities UP Gold DOWN.. Same old, same old...

A 'double dip' could boost gold short term though?

George Soros dumped $800M worth of Gold this week, so I'm guessing that's a good indication of where its value is moving...

If HE has sold the majority of his funds holding - I think others should take note. He has been rather successful over the years!

I agree with Lebelge wholeheartedly. Thai Expats will be tarred with the same brush for some time to come. Not everyone frequents Soi 6 and lives on a diet of sex, booze and viagra. I am quite content to 'live & let live' and what others do is entirely up to them. Pattaya is changing, with wealthy Thai's probably spending more money here on the weekends than Expats & tourists combined. They don't frequent the gutter, but you only have to check out the posh hotel lounges/bars to see them about.

Thailand HAS deserved its previous seedy reputation (there is no smoke without fire) but compared to going out in the UK and running the gauntlet of drunk men/women falling over themselves and fighting all night long, isn't that a 'global' phenomenon and a social issue all round? I have always felt safer in Pattaya on an evening than in the UK put it that way...

I have numerous wealthy clients based in Thailand, who are either in business or retired. Their lifestyle is far removed from beer bars and agogo's which too many uninformed 'outsiders' consider are the only places to visit in Thailand. They are not. Thailand (like every country) has its problems, but if you segregate yourself from the gutter and get to know the real Thailand, it remains a beautiful country, full of people who will willingly help you if you ASK NICELY!

The power has shifted away from the 'all powerful' wealthy [western] ferrang who can afford to get away with whatever he/she wishes, in favour of wealthy Thai's, Russians and Chinese. It is now quite apparent that those on a meagre budget living beyond their means are finding it tough out here, so when they are not drinking themselves to oblivion in 'cheep charlie' bars and/or paying for sex with just as cheap girls they simply moan about everything related to Thailand and have nothing good to say. Well - GO BACK HOME if its that bad!! Or does it have more to do with the fact that they have nothing and no one back home who will give them the light of day?

The Thai Visa website and forum(s) are an excellent source of information and banter. I do feel that some too easily slip into 'foul language mode' and thankfully a lot of comments are well moderated. But hey, we all know people who simply cannot express themselves or go for more than 1 or 2 sentences without swearing and it is these very same individuals who have the insecurity issues!

I find it hilarious when someone virulently comments about a particular forum article/comment and shows the whole Thai Visa community that they clearly haven't read the article, digested its proper meaning and have completely missed the whole point of what's been said.

Without wishing veer 'off subject' too much (and in support of this website/forum) can anyone inform me of the ratio of male/female forum members? It would be very interesting to hear from established Expat WOMEN how they feel about the comments in this article? I doubt for one minute any upstanding female (like many of us 'decent' men) would be particularly happy being labelled a 'Sexpat'!!

How about we all focus on the POSITIVES and then we can sit back and smirk at the ill informed who chose not to come to this lovely country and miss out. Let them enjoy the taxes, austerity measures, high rents, cold climates and road rage shall we?

I think you will find that Mr Colin Vard didn't buy the properties in his cleaners name, he set up a 'legit' company and held the properties in that manner. The deeds were subsequently (allegedly) altered by the 'gang' involved (police, local lawyers etc) and then sold-off at bargain basement prices to relatives of those involved in the sting. However, I would 100% agree with you about the whole idea of setting up a company to purchase a property in Thailand - it is fraught with many dangers that lawyers and real estate agents simply hide from investors...

The ONLY safe bet is to either buy a [leasehold] condo (where you don't own any land) or RENT! Even many condo developments that have exceeded their 'ferrang quota' will try to sell you one in a company name, which although slightly less risque than a house/land is still a less secure ownership option overall.

I have some interesting articles on my website about why you should be very, VERY careful about buying property in Thailand and with the exchange rate/strength of the Thai baht as it is; why on earth would you even bother? When 'you know who' dies, how politically stable do you think things in the land of smiles is going to be??

Why you probably shouldn't buy property in Thailand...

There are also numerous forum comments here on the Thiavisa about property related issues - DO YOUR HOMEWORK or lose your money - "UP TO YOU!"

I have a handful of clients who have retired to Spain and in the main although they are relatively happy, it has not been quite as pleasant as they had hoped. And yes, they do moan! Isn't that a favourite pastime of the British anyway?

With the Euro so weak, property bargains can be had, but inflation is rife and the overall cost of living isn't as cheap day-to-day as Thailand - not even close. Of course health care considerations if something went wrong is a different matter, but lets focus on the positive! Spain is full of unscrupulous property 'lawyers' but if anyone relocates there then it would make sense to rent, do your research and then only buy when you have thoroughly done your homework. Common sense anywhere of course.

I am based in Pattaya as it is relatively central, I have everything to hand and with a glut of accommodation and being so close to BKK prices are very reasonable all round. The Expat clubs are very active and whatever your pastime(s) they are available here in abundance. Beach properties are VERY expensive to rent/buy but most established Expats live slightly further out near the lake where there are 100's of Expats and property is very reasonable irrespective of whether your rent or buy. It can get busy high season and it is certainly not as rustic as Chang Mai for example, but as a BASE it is great value overall.

I suspect Expats are generally happier in Asia than in Europe. I know that's a bit of a blanket statement and there are always exceptions, but in my experience those based in Asia are able to make their money go further, even with the poor £-Euro/Baht exchange rates. If you are on a very tight budget then I guess Basic State Pension indexation is a consideration, even if BSP is taxed at source. The Revenue argument that Expats save taxes in other ways to compensate doesn't really stack up, we all know that - but with "UK Plc" basically bankrupt I cannot see anything changing for quite some time....

If I were elderly, in my latter years of life expectancy I may well return to the UK/EU for state care reasons and to be close to old friends/family. I can understand Expats feeling this way and calling a day on there self imposed exile, but everyone's different. All I do know is that out of the handful of clients I have/had in Spain, without exception they have returned to the UK upon the death of their spouse or when they have become quite frail. This has to say something I guess?

Andrew

I shan't comment on your Thai partner accompanying you as that's purely at your discretion. I have one client who as done what you plan and they found Spain much more accepting of a European Male/Asian female relationship than the rather more draconian attitudes adopted in the UK when they were there too...

It doesn't sound like you will be shifting a lot of capital when you move, but I just wish to highlight one very important point. Spain has a dual taxation treaty with the UK which carries some advantages/disadvantages. If you have any lump sum (proceeds from a Thai property sale or what not) - leave it offshore and do NOT repatriate the funds either to the UK or Spain. Leaving them 'in limbo' offshore would give you some significant tax savings and avoid too much of your money being taxed locally in Spain.

Outside of the 'millionaire playboy' suburbs property is very cheap in Spain compared to the rest of the EU and Madrid has been known for being the cheapest EU Capital city for quite some time etc etc.. At retirement age, access to cheap/free medical care is also a very compelling reason to relocate from Asia/elsewhere.

I know this is going off topic slightly, but no one else mentioned it here so I thought you might be interested in this snippet of information. Forewarned in forearmed as they say!

Very best wishes and good luck.