Bazle

On 2/13/2024 at 7:10 AM, Bluetongue said:

I'm still a bit confused about residency. The guide states that you are a tax resident of Thailand if you are here for 180 days in a calendar year, no if's but's or maybe's. Why then does the DTA between Australia/Thailand in Part 4 Residency (pasted below) appear to give some discretion about this? Have these rules been amended at some stage? As an almost doddering old fool I am struggling with interpreting these things.

 

Article 4

Residence

 

3. Where by reason of the preceding provisions, an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, the status of the person shall be determined in accordance with the following rules, applied in the order in which they are set out :

 

(a) the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting State in which a permanent home is available to the person;

 

(b) if a permanent home is available to the person in both Contracting States, or in neither of them, the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting State in which the person has an habitual abode;

 

(c) if the person has an habitual abode in both Contracting States, or in neither of them, the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting State with which the person's personal and economic relations are the closer.

 

Perhaps I am not understanding your point correctly, but I do not see any discretion.

This article (often referred to as the "tie-breaker" article) usually includes the words "for the purposes of this agreement", and it would have helped if they had included them here.

So, you can be regarded as a resident of one country for the purposes of the legislation in that country, but can be regarded as a resident of the other country for the purposes of the treaty. And what the treaty says in relation to the taxation of any particular income or gain over-rides what domestic legislation says (unless there is something in the treaty that says otherwise).

57 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

A change to para 8 in the document, thanks to eagle eye poster UKresonant:

 

"Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand. and where you are at midnight on each day. A day appears to be counted using the entry and exit stamps in your passport, unlike many other countries where it is determined by where you are at midnight".

Does that mean the days of arrival and departure are both counted? 

4 hours ago, WhiteHatPhil said:

Furthermore, I repeatedly read that the UK DTA does not cover pensions - state or private. Of course it does. But just because it doesn't use the word "pension" in Article 16, people have made the incorrect leap.

 

It clearly states "...salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment".  And that is EXACTLY what a pension is - income, remuneration in respect of an employment. That is why my monthly pension slip is called a "pay slip". That is why i still have a Tax Code  - because I am being taxed by HMRC on my income.

 

Have a read of the OECD Commentary re Articles 15 and 18 of its Model Convention and you will conclude otherwise.

https://www.oecd.org/berlin/publikationen/43324465.pdf

On 11/3/2023 at 11:14 AM, JimGant said:

 

 

 

The UK pension is not Thai-source, so that quote is not relevant. 

On 11/24/2023 at 6:21 AM, Jingthing said:

Hi there,

Do you already have a TM30 receipt in your passport showing your condo address and assuming you previously reported you were the owner.

IF SO, I don't think you need to do anything.

Recently I got my very first TM30 as a condo owner occupant. (In person.)

They told me I will never need to do one again UNLESS I move.

Which office was that, please?

On 10/18/2023 at 8:55 AM, Liquorice said:

I think the Pattaya Mail has taken it out of context.
There is no change in procedure.

 

If you turn up at an Immigration office for a service, they will check a TM30 has been filed.
If you do not possess a copy of the TM30 receipt stapled in your passport, then it can take the IO's a considerable amount of time to locate it on the system.
Chonburi are simply stating if you haven't got a TM30 receipt in your passport, then file one to get a new receipt.
No TM30 receipt, you're wasting their time, no service.

Do others think that BM Liquorice is correct, please? 

On 9/27/2023 at 5:02 PM, topt said:

So in theory we could end up being taxed twice depending on how this plays out. The state pension does not count as govt. either .......

17 hours ago, Bazle said:

Note Article 23(3):

" .... United Kingdom tax payable in accordance with this Convention in respect of income from sources within the United Kingdom shall be allowed as a credit against Thai tax payable in respect of that income. The credit shall not, however, exceed that part of the Thai tax, as computed before the credit is given, which is appropriate to such item of income."

1 hour ago, topt said:

Not sure what the relevance is of the quote relative to pensions? 

Which is why I quoted the digest in the first place as easier to understand.

You said that a pension could end up being taxed twice. I pointed out that the Thais are required to give a credit for UK tax, so that wouldn't be the case.

On 9/27/2023 at 5:02 PM, topt said:

Just to make you feel worse you should be aware that the DTA between UK and Thailand specifically excludes pensions unless government (civil service).

 

So in theory we could end up being taxed twice depending on how this plays out. The state pension does not count as govt. either .......

 

See Thailand on page 34 on the linked document and look across to note 4 on the far right.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

A copy of the actual treaty is available here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf

Note Article 23(3):

" .... United Kingdom tax payable in accordance with this Convention in respect of income from sources within the United Kingdom shall be allowed as a credit against Thai tax payable in respect of that income. The credit shall not, however, exceed that part of the Thai tax, as computed before the credit is given, which is appropriate to such item of income."

13 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

It depends on which Immigration Office.  Most allows 30 days in advance, some 45 days in advance.

Would using an agent increase the number? 

TIA. 

I hope it's OK to hijack this thread with a third question.

If you already have a Retirement Extension, how far ahead of its expiry date can you apply for a further extension?

TIA.

At Swampy, I wanted to get some B&H Gold for a friend. However, they didn't stock them - only B&H Red. They said that the Red were the same as the Gold. 

Could someone please tell me if that is correct, please. 

TIA. 

15 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That insurance requirement is only required for a non-o visa based upon retirement.

Thanks, UJ. 

Do you know if it has to be with a Thai company, please? 

46 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Make JPGs of the 3 pages and then use an online service to merge them into one long jpg.

 

This site has a horrible interface, but it does the job. Just scroll down to where you can drag and drop the files.

https://www.filesmerge.com/merge-jpg

 

Thanks.

@Sjoerd You have titled this thread "Thailand Pass / enter Thailand insurance question" but then your opening post says: "Soon I will enter Thailand with a multiple Non-O visa which probably allows me a stay of 90 days. Do I need an insurance for the full lenght or can 30 days be enough?".

Are you possibly conflating the visa with the Thai Pass?

As I understand it, unless you are entering Thailand as Visa Exempt, you need a visa in order to get the Thai Pass. For both you need insurance, although I'm not clear if the requirements regarding the insurance are the same for both. (Can anyone advise on that, please.)

I started applying on-line for a Non-O Visa, but got stuck on the insurance question:

It specifically talks about a THAI insurer, but I am assured by a friend (who went through the process about 5 months ago) that a UK policy was accepted then.

If a UK policy is OK, I am then faced with the problem of uploading the necessary pages from the policy. Three pages will be necessary to prove I have the insurance required, but the software does not allow more than one file to be uploaded.

I'm wondering what stage you've reached in your application, and if you have had the same problems?

19 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

 

Don't rule out visa exempt entry with extension. 1900baht. 

Pre Covid, I was making about 5 4-week trips to Thailand each year.

Initially, I was entering visa exempt, but that stopped after I was told by an IO to get a visa next time: visa exemption applied only to people making temporary visits. 

Your help, please.

I'm trying to complete the application form for a Non-Immigrant O Visa (based on being retired, in receipt of a state pension) from the London Embassy.

It is a painful process and, just when I thought I was making headway, I was confronted with this:


Is that still correct - is it really necessary for it to be a Thai insurer?

I have just taken an annual travel policy with a UK insurer. I have cover far in excess of what is needed for the visa. If the UK insurer is OK, how do I complete the on-line visa application which will accept the download of only one document when I need to download at least 3 pages from the 36 page insurance document to establish that I have the requisite cover?

TIA

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yes as long as it includes COVID and you can get a statement to that effect. Many people have used foreign travel insurance policies to enter.

Thanks. ????

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Most foreign insurance (including travel insrance) would cover far more than 20K.

Does this mean that UK travel insurance should be sufficient: I don't need any special insurance? 

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is just a suggestion and certainly is not mandatory.

Many thanks. 

TAT's updated information on the Test & Go rules is contained here:
https://www.tatnews.org/2022/02/thailand-reopening-exemption-from-quarantine-test-go/?fbclid=IwAR3Aw4cfjk4gJnDncW7W0h5o30JcoK9oRQgHE6xSK0_BZnPuAzlVL2DSo1s

and says:

The health insurance coverage has also been reduced to no less than US$20,000.

TAT recommends that travellers make sure to check the small print of any COVID-19 insurance policy before purchasing. Ultimately, the policy should cover the cost of treatment and other medical expenses associated with being infected with COVID-19, including in-patient hospitalisation, hospital isolation, hotel isolation, or related quarantine. 

Please could I ask your help on the meaning of "recommends" here. Does it mean that it is compulsory, or just nice, to have that coverage?

And what other requirements might there be? For example, I'm thinking that health insurance with an excess of, say, £1m would be useless for most people (but very cheap! ???? ).

TIA.

59 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

..... was asked to show insurance. 

Do you happen to know what exactly was asked for? If there isn't some standard form, I can see problems at the airport.

If the OP's post is genuine, and I suspect that it is, I'm left with the feeling that the IO was hoping to be made an offer to make the problem go away. 

I did this at Jomtien 3 weeks ago. Just to mention they did ask me for the Embassy letter requesting the transfers be made. 

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

..., and build new further out of town, where it is easier to get to, closer to Sukhumvit and the motorway, in a place that doesn't end up a foot under water when it rains heavily!

"further out of town" and "easier to get to" are contradictory for most of us!