returntotheuk

Hi Guys,

I have been doing lots of research on a settlement visa for my wife so we can move to the UK. Before I go on, I just want to explain that my wife is Cambodian, we have been married for over 10 years, we have 3 kids which all have British citizenship. I am British too.

My question is about meeting the financial threshold, as our kids are British then we need to be earning 18,600 quid per year. I do not have the liquid cash to put in the bank so will go down the earning route.

Anyway, my question is:

If I started to pay tax and NI contributions in the UK for my current and ongoing self employed earnings in Cambodia then would this eventually be able to be used as meeting the financial threshold required? The businesses would still be running in Cambodia while we were living in the UK, and a lot of the work I do is actually online. And, they would be paying us ongoing income.

I am hoping this is possible to avoid going to live in the UK and set up another business in the UK and wait until that business earns money. I also do not want to be away from my wife/kids for a minimum of 15 months.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

All very interesting, Foggy.

But the ECOs make their decisions based on the immigration rules and the guidance issued to them. I have linked to that guidance earlier, which shows the criteria the ECOs use in assessing overcrowding.

That some local authorities may use different criteria is irrelevant.

Returntotheuk, I'm afraid that the ECOs aren't interested in whether your wife not being with you means that you may need to claim more public funds yourself than if she were; you are not subject to immigration control.

IMHO the time has come for you to make a decision. Either apply and see what happens, or wait until you have built up more in the way of savings or have a definite job offer in the UK.

Hi 7by7,

Thanks for your reply, we have decided to apply for the visa first then if she does not get it then we will go for the second option.

I understand most ECO's will not be interested in the rest of the family not been subject to immigration control. I am sure a bit common sense is used when it comes to the rules. The rules of the immigration and benefit system give the UK so many problems in the first place.

Thanks

7x7 - Just a quick(?) response re bedrooms etc ...

My researches, applications etc thus far has shown a conflict in the various applicable rules.

The Immigration rules regarding overcrowding are quite specific - children under age 10 of opposite sexes can share a bedroom with regard to assessing space needs.

The Social Housing allocation rules in use by local authorities, say they cannot but there is conflict in this area.

The Housing Benefits entitlement assessment agrees with the immigration case, but the allocation rules do not. The allocation rules in use by local authorities and housing associations award waiting list banding and points for size of property required, based on children of opposite sex must not share, regardless of age ... and it is this usage that the local authorities use when issuing non-overcrowding assessments on accommodation for use in supporting visa applications.

Example from my own case -

- Immigration says we need a 2 bedroom (son & daughter both under 10)

- Housing Benefits say we would only be entitled to LHA for a 2-bedroom

- Housing allocation say we must have 3 bedrooms

- Local Authority non-overcrowding assessment says we must have 3 bedrooms or assessment will be negative

What this means, is that benefits are structured to only pay for a 2 bedroom property while housing allocation would put us in the property band for the size with highest demand and least availability, therefore pushing us into private renting. In the Thames valley where I am, that's a monthly rental difference of £300 a month average (between 2 and 3 bedroom urban houses).

Without the 3 bedrooms, which Housing Benefits will not pay for until the family is here, and even then will only award LHA for a 2 bedroom, it is not possible to get the statutory non-overcrowding certificate (which costs £120 and takes a month from our council) to support the visa application.

This makes it a catch 22 - without the family here, no larger accommodation and benefits to pay for it, without the larger accommodation, no settlement/spousal visa to get the family here. This is why the local authority officers are saying to just get them here first on any type of visa possible, including long term visit.

The strictness and circular "gotcha" in these rules, I am told, is due to the invasion of eastern EU nationals who have flooded the country and are entitled to housing and benefits after one year of working in the UK/CTA. The local officers really do not like that accommodating Europeans due to Brussels overlord rules is disadvantaging Britons and their families, but their hands are tied on it.

To the OP - I'd recommend you go for your brothers place, for three main reasons -

1 - It gives you an ace up your sleeve that if your brother returns, your family will be facing street homelessness or statutory overcrowding, and you'll get top priority for social housing.

2 - By utilising your brother's property, proving a retained link to the UK, you may get an exemption to the Habitual Residency Test, or at the very least, some extra consideration towards exemption - but be sure to specify you're staying in a family member's property.

3 - You can use proximity to your elderly parent, as part of the HRT exemption justification and for other applications such as Jobseekers Allowance and Housing Benefits, without getting shunted onto the Carer's Allowance scheme, which would affect your mother's benefits and pensions.

Hope it helps

Foggy

Hi Foggy,

That's interesting about the rules on the rooms been different with different authorities.

It sounds like you went to the UK first your wife, is with you yet? Did you take the kids with you first?

I think I have everything I need to apply for my wife's visa accept maybe not enough money in the bank.

If my wife's visa is refused then I will be going to the UK first with 2 of my kids and then re-apply for her visa at a later date so she hopefully can join us with our youngest son. I do not want to do it this way but if I am forced into it then I will. It will surely cost the government more in benefits if I went to the UK first WITHOUT my wife. If my wife was not with me then it would be very hard to work full time and if I do work then I would also need to claim for childcare. So, really it would not make sense for the ECO to refuse us because we only have 6,000 pounds in funds available. I am much less lightly to need "public funds" if my wife is with me rather than not with me.

BTW, I have also been offered to live in my brothers flat which is VACANT for free in return for house sitting for him. He now lives in Singapore and will not be returning to the UK for a number of years. The flat would also pass the accommodation test, would this be easier then my Mam offering accommodation or is it pretty much the same?

Provided both have adequate room for you and your family then there would not be any difference.

If you do choose to use your brother's flat then he will need to provide the evidence that it is suitable etc.

Hi 7by7,

I think it maybe easier to take my brother's offer as I am in contact with him daily anyway. It maybe be better than giving my Mam any hassle. She says she does not mind us living there but after a few weeks with 3 young kids running around she may change her mind!

Yes, I think I might take my brother's offer up.

Thanks for all your help.

Hi Guys,

I have found an old archive on the DWP (Department of Works and Pensions) refferring to the "Swaddling case" about the HRT.

Here is the link for those interested:

Swaddling case

Hi ThaiVisaExpress,

Thanks for all the info.

I am going to see if I can find a part time job in the UK from here, so I have a job on arrival. If no luck then I will just wait until we can sell some of our assets off so we can show enough cash to support us for a 1 year.

It would nice to be in the UK for Christmas, although not sure about the cold weather!!!

BTW, pretty sure even as British citizens we would not be entitled to any tax credits for some time. I have not lived in the UK for 8 years.

Thanks for all the advice.

You should check

Hi Guys,

ThaiVisaExpress, the reason why I am pretty sure I would not be entitled for tax credits some time is because of the "Habitual Residency Test" which Foggy mentions. Although, the HRT can be passed after doing a bit research. On my understanding, you MUST show that you intend to settle in the UK long term. You need to ensure you open a bank account, register for voting, join clubs, join a library, get the kids enrolled into school and anything else that proves you intend to settle. The is also a case called the "Swaddling case" which about someone who was initially refused benefits due the HRT but eventually got it. I will see if I can dig the text out somewhere but it basically said he was "entitled to" benefits no matter how long he had been out of the of the country. However, in some cases people have more or less demanded that they are entitled to benefits by quoting this case although it sounds like your local MP needs to be involved.

I have done loads of research on each part of the application, and although Foggy mentions some very good points I think 7by7 is correct in mentioning about the bedrooms and bathroom part of the accommodation requirements.

7by7, I think although the guidance is a guidance, it would be safer to have the minimum amount that the government expects anyone to live on. I am sure people have getting a visa on less. Also, my Mam is nearly 80 years old and can hardly walk, so I am trying to give her as little hassle as possible. I really do not think she has the means to offer support in money anyway.

BTW, I have also been offered to live in my brothers flat which is VACANT for free in return for house sitting for him. He now lives in Singapore and will not be returning to the UK for a number of years. The flat would also pass the accommodation test, would this be easier then my Mam offering accommodation or is it pretty much the same?

I must agree with 7by7 that it would be not accepted well by the ECO if I mentioned on my wife's application that we were entitled to tax credits, child benefits etc. And, as mentioned we still would need to pass the HRT so it is not guaranteed anyway.

Anyway, thank you all for such great replies which has basically answered or confirmed my questions.

In summary, I think each case is individual and the ECO has to make the decision using the guidance. I think we only need to convince the ECO that we have enough to support ourselves in the near future with a combination of either/or savings, accommodation and salary.

I think YOU can definitely NOT mention to the ECO that you as the sponsor are going to be entitled to any kind of benefits because firstly it is going to give the ECO a bad impression and secondly it may not actually be true for some time if you do not pass the "Habitual Residence Test".

I think been prepared with as much information as possible and a good application should make it more easy to get a settlement visa. Now I just need prepare everything, my wife will be applying sometime in July/August as we do not plan to go to the UK until end of September. I am now confident I have all the info I require.

I think this has been a great thread so thanks again to all who have taken part.

Hi ThaiVisaExpress,

Thanks for all the info.

I am going to see if I can find a part time job in the UK from here, so I have a job on arrival. If no luck then I will just wait until we can sell some of our assets off so we can show enough cash to support us for a 1 year.

It would nice to be in the UK for Christmas, although not sure about the cold weather!!!

BTW, pretty sure even as British citizens we would not be entitled to any tax credits for some time. I have not lived in the UK for 8 years.

Thanks for all the advice.

We have just processed a successful application for an applicant who had two children without a job.

The main point here is only 1 applicant has no recourse to public funds the children are British citizens ?

Hi ThaiVisaExpress,

Yes, only my wife is applying for the visa. Our 3 children are ALL British citizens.

Surely, the ECO would use commonsense when there are children involved who are British Citizens. If we had income/savings of (275 GPB per week), which would last for about a year, then it should be sufficient to convince the ECO on the maintenance part of the visa?

Thanks

Can I just confirm who had the job offer the sponsor or the one applying for the visa?

If it is the sponsor then surely the ECO would NOT pass the spouse's visa if the sponsor was only working part time in a shop? I thought the job had to be a full time job or a job which covers the minimum income which the government says that the family should live on?

i don't think i said it was a part time job. I simply know that the sponser was offered a job (not even sure it was a real job but they could confirm it was real business, callable phone numbers etc and i guess he could have taken it if needed) and the guy who was a friend of his folks owned some shops or maybe an amusment arcade, not sure now, it could have been cashier or manager position, i don't know but yes i assume it was a liveable income. all i'm saying is that an offer of a checkable job is much more concrete evidence than unstarted selfemployment, the ECO need certainty not hopes, however promising. i don't see why the applyee couldn't have a job lined up too, my wife was offered work in a restraunt while she was visiting the UK and we could use that as potential future income too.

The sponsor could travel ahead of his wife and secure employment & then apply.

Hi Thaivisaexpress,

Thanks for reply.

Firstly, I am not sure about my mothers savings but I do not want to use her savings as any kind of guarantee anyway.

The idea of going to the UK first is a possibility BUT it is a the last option, I would not want to leave my young family for any length of time if I can help it. Not to mention the extra costs involved of running 2 households here and the UK.

Although it maybe difficult to get a full time job offer from a company in the UK without going to the UK first, I should be able to get a part tie job offer. Do you think this would help? If I manage to get nearer the 10k GBP and I have some sort of income then would this give me a good chance? I used to be a manager in big supermarket company so have a lot of old colleagues who I could contact about getting some kind of job offer, a full time job would be harder to get though unless I actually go to the UK.

I know the lowest income which the government says a family of 5 should live on is 275 GBP per week after accommodation has been paid for. So if I had a part time job which earned say 100 GBP a week but made the 175 quid up from my savings and it was enough to last at least one year then would that be acceptable do you think? This means I would need around 9,100 GBP as the job would get me 52 x 100 = 5,200 which equals 52 x 275 GBP per week.

Having read the guidance now a good few times then the above should be enough for it to be accepted. It could depend on the type of day the ECO is having!

I will hold back on my new business until I am settled a bit more.

Thanks

Hi to to OP

If your Hotel/Guest House in Cambodia did not work, why are you sure you internet business will work in the UK? and if it can, why not just do it from Cambodia and avoid all this trouble?

Who said my guesthouse or hotel did not work? The hotel and our last guesthouse were both very successful which allowed us to have a comfortable lifestyle. We have managed to save a bit money and we have a number of assets (mostly land which is not selling at the moment).

The internet business plan would not work in Cambodia, the business was planned purely for when we go to the UK. After working for myself for 8 years, I would prefer to work for myself as I enjoy it more but it is not essential. If I was not sure the business would work then I would NOT do it. The business has took 6 months to plan and I have done businesses before so know what it takes to make them work.

We think it is best for our kids to be brought up in the UK.

Can I just confirm who had the job offer the sponsor or the one applying for the visa?

If it is the sponsor then surely the ECO would NOT pass the spouse's visa if the sponsor was only working part time in a shop? I thought the job had to be a full time job or a job which covers the minimum income which the government says that the family should live on?

i don't think i said it was a part time job. I simply know that the sponser was offered a job (not even sure it was a real job but they could confirm it was real business, callable phone numbers etc and i guess he could have taken it if needed) and the guy who was a friend of his folks owned some shops or maybe an amusment arcade, not sure now, it could have been cashier or manager position, i don't know but yes i assume it was a liveable income. all i'm saying is that an offer of a checkable job is much more concrete evidence than unstarted selfemployment, the ECO need certainty not hopes, however promising. i don't see why the applyee couldn't have a job lined up too, my wife was offered work in a restraunt while she was visiting the UK and we could use that as potential future income too.

Hi Leafmould,

Thanks for your email.

My understanding now is that the ECO only needs to know you can support your family without any "Recourse to Public Funds".

So, this means any combination of a salary, savings plus suitable & acceptable accommodation which supports us and is at least the minimum amount which the government says a family of that size should be living on should be enough to convince the ECO.

So even if I had any kind of job offer would be a help as it is still some sort of income, then my savings would be on top of the salary I would be getting. At least if I have something to go to when I arrive, I can then look for something once I am there.

Thanks, to you all for the info.

Hi 7by7,

I understand now.

Thanks

Hi Leafmould,

Thanks for info about the job situation.

Can I just confirm who had the job offer the sponsor or the one applying for the visa?

If it is the sponsor then surely the ECO would NOT pass the spouse's visa if the sponsor was only working part time in a shop? I thought the job had to be a full time job or a job which covers the minimum income which the government says that the family should live on?

7by7 and Visa Plus,

Thanks for your info so far, I really appreciate it.

Can you please clarify for me? I was always led to believe that a job offer had to be full time or at least generate a decent salary, is this right? I have a large network of old business colleagues who I used to work with, it will not be easy to get a full time job offer but it should be possible for me to get a part time job, although wages will be poor (close to minimum wage). Would this be a help? I actually used to be a manager for Tesco and worked in a number of stores so I have a big network of old friends/colleagues (not that I have been in touch with many). If this is the case then I will get on that horrible social network site "facebook" to see if I can contact any of them. Many of them should be in very good positions now with a lot of power for hiring people.

Thanks again,

Hi Visa Plus,

Thanks for the information. I get what you are saying now.

I think by the sounds of it a monthly expected expenditure list would be very good to show to the ECO? With enough savings to that covers at least 9 months if not a year which gives me plenty time to find a job. Also, my C.V with job aspects, willingness to move anywhere in UK, job applications, etc. Accommodation available until I find a job with a letter from my Mam with here offer plus a copy of the deeds of her house.

Thanks,

Hi 7by7,

Just reading your quote below:

"There is little difference between someone coming to the UK with their children and claiming benefits until they find a job and can afford to have their partner join them and a couple where the partner comes at the same time and the UK partner claims benefits until they find a job. Remember that you can claim any and all benefits to which you may be entitled, and this includes tax credits and child benefit; it is your wife who is prohibited from claiming public funds until she has Indefinite Leave to Remain. However, any application which relied upon public funds the sponsor could claim once in the UK to satisfy the maintenance requirement would, in my opinion, fail."

Yes, an ECO will knock someone where neither the spouse or sponsor has a job. However, if the sponsor has a job of 16 hours or more then he/she is entitled to Child tax credits and working tax credits? The sponsor can then show he has an income of what the government says is the lowest amount a family of that size should live on. As long as the sponsor does not claim any extra benefits then should satisfy the ECO?

The above seems to be a popular option for a lot of people so they can pass the financial part of the visa application looking at some of the other immigration forums.

However, if we apply for the settlement visa with say 10k, with accommodation sorted, C.Vs, job prospects etc BUT we got refused does this affect us from applying again shortly after? If it affects us then it maybe better for me to go to the UK first.

Thanks

Hi 7by7,

I appreciate Visa Plus's reply, I am sorry if my reply sounded though I did not.

I think I need to think about the job side of it more relating job prospects and c.v.s etc. The idea with our own business means we can both work around a kids school times etc. If we both had regular jobs then we would need a child carer which kinda defeats the object of my wife working as we will probably need a child minder.

The extra 4k in money was just a figure that came into my head which we could possibly save before applying.

I really just need some idea of the amount of savings I would need to have before we apply for the visa.

If we have all of the above plus C.Vs, job applications etc then what would be the minimum amount you have in savings before you actually applied?

Thanks

.

In addition to money, there is another possible (edit) Are you aware that your wife also has to supply a certificate showing that she has passed an English listening and speaking exam at minimum level A1? This is usually the Cambridge KET exam. Is it available in Cambodia?

Hi Crocodile,

There is no speaking exam available in Cambodia BUT this makes the Cambodian citizens exempt.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback.

7by7, thanks for the info. Do you know though how long does the ECO expect you to have savings to last for? Is it 3 months, 6 months, 1 year or 2 year etc? No one seems to have any idea of this on any of the forums.

I do I need to provide information to the ECO to what they want to hear? Maybe I should provide a C.V rather than tell them I want to do my own business? My business idea needs little or no set up money but if the ECO is not business savvy then he/she is not going to believe my business can generate an income. My C.V reads 10 years in retail management and 8 years in hotel/guesthouse management with flexibility to move anywhere in the UK for a job. Would this be better for the ECO?

If my wife can not get a visa then it will give me no option to go the UK first with my 3 kids who are British citizens. This is liable to cost the government more and me. I need my wife to take care of the kids so I can go to work. A lot of people are playing the system by going to UK first getting a crap job, claiming tax credits etc then say they have enough income to support the spouse so they get their visa so maybe I should just do the same! It would annoy greatly though if I had to do this and instead going over there my family and setting up my business.

Surely, the ECO MUST look at the situation to see it is only my wife's immigration status which is the problem and the rest of the family are British Citizens. We have been married for 6.5 years and have 3 kids so surely it must stand in a much higher stead then someone who has had a Thai/Cambodian girlfriend for 6 months but the sponsor has a shit load of money?

Sorry for the little rant but this is more stress than running my hotel business.

Would 10k be enough do you think?

Cheers

Hi Folks,

I am looking to apply for my wife's visa in the next 6 months and want to know how much savings I will need. We currently have only around 6,000 pounds saved but worried this will not be enough as we have no jobs to go too.

Here are our circumstances:

1. I am British, my wife is Cambodian.

2. We have been married for 6.5 years.

3. We have 3 children who all hold British Citizen and Passports.

4. We will have plenty supporting documents regarding relationship.

5. We have run a guesthouse business in Cambodia for a number of years.

6. Although, we do not have jobs to go to we want to open out own online consignment business (very low risk).

7 My Mam has offered free rental for as long as we need.

8. My Mam has also offered food if we ever needed it.

9, My Mam lives alone and has plenty room for us which passes the accommodation test.

Basically, we will have everything we need accept our savings seem no where near enough after looking at what other people seem to show in savings. We can not find out how much money we need for our circumstances. I know we need around 275 pounds a week for the 2 of us with 3 kids but I can not find anywhere how long your savings are suppose to last? 6,000 pounds means it will last for about 4 months if we have no rent or council tax to pay., if we do an expected expenditure list would this help?

BTW, we all still live in Cambodia, I do not want to return to the UK by myself first as this will just use up all our savings very quickly.

Any advice?