meowchawpnom

Sorry to revive this topic, but am still pondering this matter. It occurred to me the other day that, whereas a trike is an imperfect solution at best, is there any reason why you couldn't put 4 wheels on a motorbike and maybe have a more stable vehicle?

Is a 4 wheel motorbike considered an ATV? But why couldn't you have one with normal tires for urban use as a safer motorbike alternative?

Pros and cons of this approach?

Are ATVs available in SEA and I wonder if you can customize them so they are for road use, not off-road? Or just have someone put 2 extra wheels on a Honda Dream.

It would seem to me that the best solution is to make a one year business visa readily available.

China and Vietnam both have this already. It is effectively a Tax on your staying here.

China one year F can be bought in HK for 1100hkd. Vietnam is $50us for 6 months.

Time for Thailand to modernize. I dont mind them making checks adn balances as long as there is a way to deal with it. We shall see what really happens and if this affects their economy.

You can alway lobby your own gov to push for better deal between Thailand and your own country.

Chinadarling, you can get Viet 6 month business visa for USD50 in HK? That's very cheap. They are $140 through agents in PP. Is this price through agents or from the consulate?

Some trike pictures people have posted are much bigger, with wider rear wheels, than your typical home-made Vietnamese trikes. Here's a typical trike conversion seen on a Saigon street.

Not very jazzy, I'll admit. But I was just thinking...Vespas, with that wide rear end, almost look like they have two wheels in the back. Maybe buying a Vespa and putting two wheels back there...people might hardly even notice that it's a trike???

Whaddya think?

From my internet research, what someone posted earlier about Vietnam now allowing imports of used cars with no duties does not seem to be true, they ARE charging duties.

But someone told me today that used cars are not that expensive in VN, maybe 4 or 5 thousand dollars for a used Toyota...

But I wonder if all that will change when Vietnam joins the World Trade Organization, supposed to happen later this year. I think that involves abolishing a lot of import duties...

Japhrodisiac,

So you think a sidecar would make a more stable bike? I read that they also have stability problems; would be interested in hearing from someone who has actually driven one.

i asked someone about that recently, and he said he did not think that sidecars exist in Vietnam. But I just googled it and saw something about a guy in Hanoi who restores Minsks or Urals or something, and can do sidecars.

The T-Rex trike looks nice, but it also looks very expensive. How much do they cost?

Maybe make a trike with those wide front wheels, like the T-Rex, would make it more stable?

Thanks Nikster, for bringing some perspective to this. It's not that I want a trike. I am trying to solve my transportation problem, in the best way to meet my individual needs.

If, after looking at all the evidence and listening to all the opinions, I become convinced that a trike is not the answer, I won't get one.

I really am just seeking people's ideas. Maybe a trike is more dangerous because of the three wheels. As someone on another forum commented, if you have to swerve suddenly to avoid a crash, a trike might be more likely to flip over than a motorbike.

But maybe this problem can be solved. Maybe building the trike from a scooter, with its lower wheels, lowers the center of gravity and makes it less likely to flip over than one made from bigger motorcycle wheels. And maybe if one just avoids situations of heavy traffic, stays to the right and goes slow, especially on turns, one can deal with the trike's liabilities while enjoying its assets.

Personally, I'm aiming to live in a rural area eventually, where there won't be the kind of traffic you see in HCMC or Bkk. So it might work for me.

If helmets ruin your hair, silly as that sounds, maybe someone should make one that just covers the sides of your head, not the top. I mean, maybe it's the sides that get hit the most when you fall over, not the top. I don't know, I'm just speculating. That might make it more acceptable for more people to wear helmets. It's obvious people don't want to wear helmets, that's why most people in Thailand and VN don't wear them. And I mean well over 90 percent in Thailand (from my observations) and over 99% in Vietnam.

Maybe a motorbike with four wheels is the answer? Wonder how that would be, stabilitywise. The whole reason people ride motorbikes in SE Asia is because they can't afford cars. Why shouldn't we try to make them more stable, and hence make traffic more civilized in these crazy streets?

From what people are telling me, the cheapest car you can buy in Vietnam is a tiny Daewoo, for USD 20,000, which is about twice what it costs in the US. These high import duties is very bad policy by the govt, making it impossible for people to afford cars.

Anyway, I admire people who build their own crazy vehicles in their backyards, whether recumbent bikes, trikes, or whatever. It's clear enough to me that the mass manufacturers of vehicles haven't done very much to solve the problems of affordability and safety for people in SE Asia.

If it were up to me, everyone would be riding bicycles, and manufacturers would put some imagination into making them better, more comfortable, able to easily carry two people, and other stuff. I can't even ride bikes with these tiny "wedgie" seats, and you can't find a big ergonomic seat in SEA. The fact that I can't ride a standard bicycle seat (without doing violence to my crotch) and can't pick up a girl on a bicycle, is what got me reluctantly thinking about motorbikes.

again you are being unrealistic. You are missing the PHYSICS of the situation. The higher the center of gravity on a bike that cannot lean creates an unstable vehicle in corners. Going up hills... more dangerous in the standard version. Weight in corners .. big trouble!

Accidents ... obviously minor ones are more common <and usually not reported> but ONE fall without a helmet at ANY speed can end all your joys.!>

My one time I went down in Thailand was in a parkinglot. slight incline dirt/gravel Put it in 2nd to start due to the gravel ... wasn't fully in gear dropped to first .. got away from me and wham! torn jeans scraped knee scraped hand ,,,, if it would have been a trike it would have flipped on top of me! The one time I went down in the states? not going fast! cornering in a sub-division hit gravel and slip .... had it been a trike the slide would have happened too but it would have flipped rolling over me ....

As for your vanity? Don't wear a helmet ... think .. how fun would it be to be brain damaged in Vietnam? You don't care if you look uncool riding a trike .... but you do care if you have helmet head?

JDinasia, I think you are making a few unwarranted assumptions here.

"if it would have been a trike it would have flipped on top of me!" How do you know that? Maybe it wouldn't have flipped at all. Now if it did flip, I can picture how it MIGHT flip on top of you if there was enough force. But the whole idea is that it won't flip. Especially if you're a slow driver like I would be.

Anyway, I can see you guys all think it's more dangerous. So I will heed your advice, and seek more on some other forum, until I can sift through the conflicting advice and figure it out for myself.

As for the contradictions between what I said about not caring what the bike looked like, and caring about what my hair looks like, I must admit you got me there. My only defense is that I'm within my rights as an eccentric to contradict myself.

I won't try to get you to agree with me anymore, but I do ask one last bit of advice. If I DID do a trike conversion, do you agree that the tadpole design is more stable for road driving than the wheels-at-the-back design?

Well, thanks for your thoughts. In answer to one suggestion:

It is impossible for me to wear a helmet and protective clothes like jeans in this climate. I am going to use the bike to date girls, for one thing. Wearing the helmet would mat down my thin hair with sweat and oil and I would look very unsexy. (please, wiseguys, don't post "you'll look even more unsexy with your brains oozing from your fractured skull"...these are my realities) My hair needs to fluff up to look good; when it's matted down I look bald.

And wearing the jeans and denim jacket would mean I would sweat like a pig, and create a big daily laundry problem.

You'll notice that 95% of SEAsians don't wear a helmet, nor protective clothes...yes, they may die, but they realize that it's just not practical for day to day living.

I realize my proposal isn't perfect, but I am trying to do the best I can with a solution that will have to be a compromise, as a car, the perfect solution, is just out of the question.

Now if a trike would be unstable on turns, I would just have to be more careful and go more slowly. I'm willing to do that.

Nobody has answered my question about what kind of motorbike accidents are most common -- getting hit by another motorist or just falling off the bike due to slippery pavement, gravel, getting the tires caught in streetcar rails or failure to turn properly, or whatever. If the latter are the most common accidents, as I suspect, then a trike seems to make sense, unless some of you are right and it's MORE likely to fall down, which defies common sense to me.

I saw a trike today made from a motorbike. It really looked awful. The two full size wheels in the back made it look like a wheelchair. Even I, who doesn't care about appearances, don't want that (is that grammar correct???).

So I wonder if it would also look better, and less noticeable, if the trike were made from a scooter, with the smaller wheels.

I also am very intrigued with the idea of doing the tadpole design for the motorbike conversion. I was looking at a lot of front wheels today, and it seems like it would be easier to convert the front to two wheels than the back. There's less stuff in the way.

Here in Nam the cyclo drivers drive tadpoles, which they don't do in Thailand. It has always looked funny to me, but if it is more stable, why not do it?

It IS more stable, isn't it? On turns, I mean?

I wonder why nobody seems to make tadpole motortrike conversions? (Okay, RCM, you did post one, but that was a delivery trike or something, which is different)

I wonder if the conversion guys would know how to do that?

Well...what about modifying a motorbike to have the two wheels in the front instead of the back? Is that possible and would it be better? I've never seen one like that.

Somebody mentioned sidecars, and that's also an interesting way to go. But I thought I read somewhere that sidecars make it REALLY hard to turn, much harder than a trike.

Now we all looking forward to answer this question...did you ever ride a Motorbike or not???i want to know it too now...cause your "common sense" tells me you have a problem to keep the balance on a 2 wheel bike. am i right?

No, you're wrong. I have no problem at all keeping my balance on a bicycle. I'm a good bicycle rider. But motorbikes scare me, and falling off one seems more serious than falling off a bicycle, I guess because you're going faster, and the weight of the bike might push you harder into the street.

It's also all the maniacs out there driving motorbikes that scares me. If I drove one, I'd drive it like a Volvo, slow and safe. But it still seems to me that 3 wheels has to be safer.

Quick question for the OP ------ do you ride motorcycles?

No, I have never driven a motorbike, and only been a passenger on one a few times.

Anyone know what kind of trike this is? Found it on that other thread. Looks pretty stable to me!

Can you "see" stable?

No, but common sense says that three wheels is more stable than two.

If trikes was safer and better why did they stop making them?? think about that,

rcm

Maybe because people didn't buy them because they didn't want to look uncool.

Anyone know what kind of trike this is? Found it on that other thread. Looks pretty stable to me!

Also, I believe the Honda Gyro was a "tilting three wheel" bike. Meaning somehow it tilts into a turn, which I guess is a lot better. ######, why aren't they making them now?

Is it worth getting a used one? Can a bike over 20 years old still be as good as new?

(I'm not a motor buff, as I'm sure you can tell)

Hello Meow. Are you back in LOS or are you still in Vietnam? As you may have noticed from your previous thread, this is a subject that a lot of us have our own ideas, opinions and experiences on, and I really don't think you are going to get much of a concensus here on what is the best means of personal transportation. The bottom line is that eventually you are going to have to make your own decision on what you think is the best way for you to get around.

I'm still in Vietnam, and planning to stay. People tell me that cars are absurdly expensive here due to very high import duties, but I haven't checked the situation out personally. I have no idea if used cars are also very expensive.

Anyway, I hate cars. And I hate having to pay whatever the latest extortionist price is for petrol. At least with a motorbike, you get much better mileage.

I guess I'm coming at this from a different perspective than most of you. Safety is number one with me. I don't care if the transportation doesn't look cool. I don't care if I can't speed and weave in and out of traffic (both extremely dangerous practices, by the way). That's why I drove a Volvo box for years back when I was still in the western world.

I don't know where you get your info that trikes are limited to 35 km/hour. Surely they can go faster than that, depending on the size of the engine.

I realize that a trike will still fall over if someone hits you hard, but the greater stability from just accidental spills has got to be substantial. So what is the most common type of motorbike accident? Getting hit? Or just falling off due to reckless driving, slippery roads, or whatever?

Peace Blondie, I think it would be very instructive to hear details about your motorbike accident. Can you share this info?

I wouldn't mind driving a tuk tuk but I think importing it to Vietnam would be prohibitive.

As for quads, I don't know anything about them yet. Though I imagine that the more wheels you add, the more you subtract from gas mileage.

I'm disappointed that there are no ringing endorsements of my plan. (

This seems like a good solution for me. I don't wanna wear a helmet. I don't wanna sweat my ass off wearing protective clothing in a tropical climate...so this seems like it makes it harder for me to fall off. A lot harder.

I think.

Anyway, that's what some trike enthusiast websites say.

I posted about this a month ago but didn't feel the subject was explored thoroughly. I've been living in SEA for six years and you all know the transportation problem -- cars are too expensive here, public transportation inadequate and motorbikes too dangerous for the comfort levels of some of us.

So why not a motortrike? Wouldn't these be a lot safer and more stable for road driving than a two wheel motorbike?

Some have pointed out the problems: harder to turn than a motorbike, you'll feel more road bumps, you won't be able to weave in and out of traffic. Need more space for parking. Etc. I guess there's also slightly fewer miles to a liter of petrol.

But isn't the tradeoff worth it? People tell me that it's pretty much a 100 percent probability that a motorbike rider will eventually fall off the bike. That probability would surely be much less with a trike.

I saw this trike, a Honda Gyro, on the street recently, and got all excited until I found out that they stopped making them 20 or so years ago.

So that's another problem. Nobody makes them. You have to buy a motorbike and have it customized. But that's not so hard to do. And it's probably pretty cheap to do it in SEA.

Oh, I know there's another problem. People will stare at you if you ride a trike. Or think you are a handicapped person.

But again, these are minor problems compared to the need to feel safe and secure on your transportation.

Also, the trikes I've seen that are built from motorbikes have another problem: the rear wheels take up the space where your passenger needs to put her feet. But maybe that wouldn't be a problem if you made the trike from a scooter with its lower wheels.

So again, I ask, why not a trike?

By the way, when you fellows talk about the instability of scooters and the centrifugal/centripetal forces acting on the wheels, are you taking into consideration the fact that the scooter wheels are twice as wide as the motorbike wheels? Does that tend to counteract the instability caused by the tire diameters being smaller?

Just an observation driving here for the last year

If the police would start to prosecute people for these motoring offences we might see a reduction in the accident rate.

1. Running red lights - happens in pattaya every time I stop at a traggic light, two bikes very close to being hit by cars tonight - within inches trying to run across a busy junction

2. No lights on

3. driving the wrong direction

4. U turns at unofficial spots

5. Speeding in the city/built up areas

I don't care if someone chooses not to wear a helmet, it doesn't endanger other road users.

Pattaya traffic seems to be unpoliced after about 7pm at night........this needs to change, the police also need to start giving tickets for the above mentioned offences, They need a traffic branch 24hrs a day, touring around with a ticket book, only then will things start to improve.

Yes, running red lights is happening far too often - should never happen at all! It's not only bikes that do it though although they are the worst offenders.

Turning left on a red light, which is legal ( in LoS) I believe, at most junctions, is also much abused. This is supposedly only permitted when the road is clear - ha! ha! Have had many near misses when crossing a junction on a green light and nearly being taken out by someone determined to turn left on red, no matter what!

DM

Same same in Vietnam, except here half the motorists run the red lights, and they make right turns on red. Difference as I recall in the west is that you're supposed to STOP before making a right (or left) turn on red, look to see if it's safe to proceed, and only then, make the turn. Here they just tear around the corner without looking or stopping. It's outrageous.

By the way, when you fellows talk about the instability of scooters and the centrifugal/centripetal forces acting on the wheels, are you taking into consideration the fact that the scooter wheels are twice as wide as the motorbike wheels? Does that tend to counteract the instability caused by the tire diameters being smaller?

I appeciate all the thoughtful replies. Well, the fact is, that after five years in Chiang Mai, I left and am now in Vietnam, where the motorbike situation is even worse and much more chaotic than Thailand.

You've convinced me not to do it. I will find some other way. A small car or something. Also, although in HCM now, with mad, chaotic traffic, I eventually will be in a more peaceful small town hopefully.

They don't make it any easier with the lack of transport options here--there are lots of buses, but they don't run at night. And there are no songtaews, just taxis and cyclos (and motos, but obviously I'm not going to use them)

But I'd love to have more discussion of the motortrike option. Three wheeled bikes strike me as the solution to make motorbike riding a lot safer, and make it safer for pedestrians too. Why don't people do this? Is it because it just hasn't occurred to people that this would make their transportation a lot safer? Or is it because, with the ridiculous macho attitudes that prevail among men, anyone who rides a trike is considered a "sissy"?

And here I thought you were talking about riding it in the ocean!

Anyway, this is more a topic for the motors forum. All your motorheads hang out there

Oh. Didn't know there was a motor forum. Should I just re-post this there?

Okay, I see someone has already re-posted this here for me. Thanks! Now let's discuss.

And here I thought you were talking about riding it in the ocean!

Anyway, this is more a topic for the motors forum. All your motorheads hang out there

Oh. Didn't know there was a motor forum. Should I just re-post this there?

After six years in SEA, I'm finally forced to think about getting a motorbike, as it's becoming too difficult to be without cheap and immediately available transportation.

I've always been scared to death of the things, have never ridden one, but have ridden twice on one as a passenger (insisting that the driver go SLOW)

I've always been a very good, careful car driver and a good bicycle driver. If I rode a motorbike I would always go relatively slowly. Are accidents inevitable eventually, regardless of how careful you are?

There are several issues here. One of the things that makes it difficult for farangs to ride motos in SEA, IMO, is that we like to wear shorts and polo shirts, so our skin has no protection if we crash and skid across the road. Wearing protective clothing is supposed to be important. Thais can do this, because they don't get as hot as we do. But I could never wear long pants and long sleeve shirt on a regular basis.

Oh, and I hate the idea of wearing a helmet because it would ruin my hair!

Then there is the question: are motorerscooters safer than motorbikes? What are the pros and cons? I am guessing that scooters can't go as fast, which is no problem, cause they go fast enough for me. Do they get better gas mileage? Are they statistically less likely to crash? I notice that motorscooter wheels, in addition to being smaller, are also a lot wider. Does that make them more stable and less likely to tip over?

I wonder why people don't ride Motortrikes? With a small modification, you can make a motorbike into a 3-wheeler. Wouldn't that be a hel_l of a lot safer?

Most of the time, the only people I see riding motortrikes are crippled or paralyzed people. That doesn't make sense. Why shouldn't everybody ride them? In addition to the much greater stability, they would allow drivers to be more polite to pedestrians. I think one of the reasons motorcyclists don't like to stop or slow down for pedestrians trying to cross the street is that when they slow down it becomes harder to balance their bikes.

I guess a motortrike would get a little less mileage out of a liter of petrol, but probably not a lot less (correct me if I'm wrong).

Finally, is it easy to hitch a small lightweight trailer to a motorbike or scooter, so one could haul some baggage when necessary?

Thanks for your insights.

I'm looking into Everbank's foreign currency accounts. I see that they charge 0.75% to convert a currency, so if you convert dollars to a foreign currency, then back to dollars, that's 1.5%. Is that a fair fee or is it rather high? Are there any alternatives to Everbank, aside from online trading brokers that seem to have (much lower) 3 pip spreads?

Everbank is also generally paying you about 1% per year less than the bank CD rates that you'd get when CDs are purchased from a bank in the currency's home country.

Well, actually I think they're shafting you even more than that, according to some of my research. The problem is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that it appears to be very difficult for a nonresident foreigner to open a savings account at a bank that's not in your home country. At least that seems to be the case in a few countries I'm researching, such as India.