sushiman

Latest Update fron The Nation News online.

So far...TRT has more Votes than "No Vote" Votes in 11 provinces.

As for the rest of the provinces islandwide, there are more "No Vote" Votes over TRT.

By the way, the number of "Not Vote" Votes and TRT Votes are pulling closer at the moment.

Still counting.

Nation News Online - choose your Internet speed in the "black-box" in the middle

Latest Update fron The Nation News online.

So far...TRT has more Votes than "No Vote" Votes in 11 provinces.

As for the rest of the provinces islandwide, there are more "No Vote" Votes over TRT.

By the way, the number of "Not Vote" Votes and TRT Votes are pulling closer at the moment.

Still counting.

Are you still counting? he he ...joking...

How many "rest of the provinces are there" if you happen to know?

thanks

Watching The Nation News online at the moment.

Based on the Live-Update on the news, the percentage of Votes calculated islandwide so far, the number of votes for TRT, the number of votes for Opposition Party (if Exist), did a rough calculation myself, the number of "Not Vote" votes is between the range of 40%-60% of the total votes at the moment.

By the way, many TRT Candidates still haven't made it through 20% eligible voters in a given constituency to win a seat unopposed.

40-60% "No Votes", wow ..... holy cow, what a good result, better than I expected.

Guess we can cheer tomorrow for sure (than ones who have reason to cheer) when we have more counts finished. I guess whatever the result will be (40-60%) time to pack his bags, and go finally for some real holidays on the British Virgin Islands, maybe he can finally think about some stock listing with a new company for NASDAQ as planned before

thanks for your update!

... rather pleased off to dodo..... great day for democracy I believe

Cheers

REGIONAL PERSPECTIVE

Post-election, Thaksin's grand exit and entry strategies

Yesterday's snap poll, by any measure, could easily have been called a joke had it not cost taxpayers an inordinately high Bt2 billion-plus and left the country nervous about the likely consequences in the days and weeks to come.

Now it seems to be a blessing in disguise because of the high "no-vote" turnout (which required no palms to be greased or money to change hands) that could hasten the demise of the embattled caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Thaksin, who defied incredible pressures to string out his political bargaining until the ballots could be cast, may still be taking some pleasure from the election. By weathering the storm, he has now been officially "laundered" by this bizarre, mostly uncontested election.

At time of writing, Thaksin's candidates have won big in constituencies in the North and Northeast regions as expected. But the unexpectedly high number of "no votes" in Bangkok, the central region and 56 districts in the southern provinces have shaken Thaksin's and Thai Rak Thai's legitimacy. In this election, there are 276 single-candidate constituencies, and it must be remembered that they ("they" all being Thai Rak Thai members) require 20 per cent of the votes. If history is any guide, and with the logistic problems this time around, including the use of rubber stamps and sloppiness in setting up polling booths, it could all end up rather messy.

Perhaps the saddest thing has been the Election Commission's passive attitude to protecting the public interest. The EC refused to look into a petition by university professors and lecturers about Thaksin's breaches of electoral law. As such, electoral malpractice will be rampant and not be reported or taken up for serious investigation. In fact, some cases from the previous election have yet to be properly investigated.

Judging from his comments and overall stance last night, Thaksin is now likely to take what is known in local parlance as ven vak - a political break. He has not made clear if this recess would remove him from the premiership or politics generally. Of course his decision depends on the final vote tally, which will be known tomorrow. Then, Thaksin's true colours should be revealed.

Long before yesterday's poll, Thai Rak Thai Party insiders predicted their party would win about 20 million votes, one million more than their record in last year's election. After all, party canvassers, village heads and those who have benefited from the government's cash give-away schemes are very much in control in key positions throughout the country, except in the southern provinces. The initial outcome of yesterday's vote clearly reflected this strong link.

With the outcome of yesterday's vote, Thaksin will still think he has won the game of political brinkmanship, despite the big "no vote" turnout. He sees the vote, especially in rural areas, as a national referendum on his leadership. In a day or two, he has to make a big decision in which he has two options. The first is a grand exit strategy: he simply does what he has pledged all along and steps down as premier to let another party leader take the helm. In this case, it could be Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusripitak. To impress the public, he could ask for an audience with His Majesty the King to decline the premiership. This would ease the current political tension and Thaksin could watch the political reforms from the sidelines. It would be the most graceful way for him to exit Thai politics temporarily.

Or he could stay on as an elected politician, citing his mandate, and serve in some other powerful position, such as House Speaker. This scenario is highly unlikely now, but he could defer his decision and come back later on. Thaksin has coveted this post for a long time because, apart from the premier, only the speaker can make or break political initiatives. He knows he can use the position to manipulate Thai politics as he sees fit. In this scenario, the centre of political gravity will shift from Government House to Parliament. He believes he has the money and political clout to achieve these objectives.

When General Prem Tinsulanonda, president of the Privy Council, cast his advance vote last week, he sent a strong signal that the ballot would definitely be held. It was equally clear that the call by the coalition of civic organisations, various professional and intellectual groups and the Democrat Party for direct royal intervention in the political turmoil would for the time being remain just "an expression of common desire".

Interestingly, this historic appeal did not come about by itself. A series of books on the nature of royal power, written by a former bureaucrat who was also a Thai Rak Thai leader, were a big hit when released early last year, generating debate in a society which used to treat any royal subject as taboo.

The debate on royal power gained much currency and it gradually entered the realm of public consciousness that royal power would prevail and come to the rescue when the country faces a political crisis. It has been a source of hope, almost wishful thinking, among Thais who disdain Thaksin's lack of accountability and transparency. For example, the Supreme Administrative Court's ruling against the privatisation of the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand was very damaging to Thaksin, who pushed hard for the plan. But he refused to take responsibility and dismissed the flaws in the plan as technical errors.

This sentiment eventually led a cross-section of civil society, including businessmen and professional groups, to change tactics shortly before the election and, instead of asking for people to boycott or cast "no vote" ballots, make a united call for a royally bestowed prime minister.

Immediately after Prem's appearance at the ballot booth, university professors and intellectuals switched strategy to call for the "no vote" option. The focus then shifted to the prime minister himself, but it was a bit too late.

However, Thaksin's opponents still hope to use the high "no vote" ballots as grounds to pressure him to stay away from politics for good, along with more street protests, of course.

Furthermore, the political situation in days to come will be volatile because of voting irregularities in various areas. The EC will be under close scrutiny again. Of course, the authorities will not be able to respond to public calls in time for investigations into vote rigging, which could lead to higher turnouts at the rallies planned on April 7 and 8. For its part, Thai Rak Thai wants to hold the inaugural Parliament session as soon as possible to make official their continued reign.

However, there could be rumblings and possible clashes when the People's Alliance for Democracy returns to Government House later this week. The confrontation could be more aggressive, without the illusions or restraint the protesters had in previous face-offs.

Kavi Chongkittavorn

Source - Nation 03April2006 www.nationmultimedia.com Thailands English Newspaper of the Year! (my opinion)

Good morning folks,

Any idea how many No-Votes will be ending up on the table?

20-40%? rather 40%, to optimistic?

Or is it a silly question, and to early to ask for?

I wonder. But anyhow so far what I'm reading now, is real encouraging slap in the face, for these

"Snap-Erections".

Wife has just called me to say she has voted for the Thai Citizens Party as it's an old established political party.

That's O.K.

Anyone, but TLT.

TLT means? (Yes TRT but what stands TLT for? Tilt?)

Thaksin's a totally corrupt dictator, and more importantly, today Thai people have an opportunity to depose him.

I wish Sondhi luck.

Unquote

Even if many of you guys don’t like the PAD’s, Sondhi, Democrats and noisy protesters etc, I think they are for the long-term a hope for a “less-corrupt” country. Why support the old habits, if you don’t actually don’t like them?

After another decade or longer here you might come to the realisation that your optimism regarding improvements, and motives of people is a bit ... optimistic.

Given enough time, things might improve, but forget about quick improvements, especially with present actors on all sides, and behind all sides of the game still involved.

maybe your right, and I.ll come back to that in 10 years, but I personally still believe we'll be better off in 10 years, maybe not as much as I'm dreaming for

If you would like to learn more about Thaksin this is a relatively objective source of information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin

Interesting and full reply Orion 76 - Thanks

By the way the link you send is great I already fully studied it about 6 weeks ago. I think it gives a good overview of Mr. Thaksins’s career and also his other doings etc.

I think basically overall you from your most probably many years of Thailand experience is right, but I have a bit more optimistic view than you and I think Thailand's democracy and political corruptions history could be now a bit smoothened out as this Democracy here in Thailand is growing up and so do people's opinions and actions.

People going on the street now and raising their voices, are basically for once and all fed with corruption etc. Of course no country can be corrupt free (even in Europe where I think the peoplea are looking with a glimpse now, to try to achieve similar standards etc.) but the “corruption could be sure less” if the Thai people will continue to fight for it in the right peacefull manner. Why not try, is it so wrong, to express your hope and displease for wrongdoings?

Even if many of you guys don’t like the PAD’s, Sondhi, Democrats and noisy protesters etc, I think they are for the long-term a hope for a “less-corrupt” country. Why support the old habits, if you don’t actually don’t like them? Just because you give up, and think nothing can be changed? I think Thailand is a very dynamic country, with great and clever people and surely I believe many people could do a much better job than Mr. Thaksin did. Why not give them a chance, and after this case people will sure more and more watching on the doings of each new government.

Of course how to achieve this is the major problem, as the majority is being fooled or they

really believe in Mr. Thaksins politics (or close an eye on the corruption side). But I still believe the wind is changing very quickly now, and for the better for al less corrupt Thailand.

See the recent EGAT ruling. I think it was clear a sign of a change for Thailand, and more could come, if Thailand wouldn’t give back power to old habits and now stand against them.

Basically every big event (like this own fabricated one by Mr. Thaksin) is a step "hopefully" towards for a better supervised more correctly functioning government. As people get year by year more sensitive and the media (even if the Public TV is basically still gov. controlled)

has more possibilities to express their views (Internet, see ASTV etc. etc.).

So don’t give up for a good cause, if you have the choice, this is my opinion.

But your points are valid too, it’s very difficult to hinder corruption in this country.

But at least they could try, and that’s exactly what the opposition is doing, so why blame them

for that?

And "ColPyat" (thanks interesting too!) yes you are right too, and I did some digging (not as experienced as you, so I guess that's why I'm maybe a bit more optimistic ) !)

and also learned that these corruptions are an ongoing thing, but I still believe it's a thing which is slowing done or could and should be at least.

But don't we generally generate all over the world, less corrupt and more controlled goverments (I means most European countries also had there times, and

it seems to be working now there, mostly) this also thanks to new technologies, better Education etc. etc.

Maybe I'm wrong here, and am a big dreamer (I raise my hat for all expats living here for a long time here, and rasing their information and sharing their

experience with us newbies!) but I will not give up dreaming until Thaksin resigned, for whatever reasons (Article 7, people-protest, maybe even an internal

TRT surprise etc. )

Interesting topic!

Cheers

I think Sondhi may not be protesting in public again, he certainly does not want to risk running into any militant street sweepers for the time being

Does anyone has a link or so of actually what Mr. Sondhi said?

As already mentioned in this forum, this hot-topic shouldn't actually (due to local laws)

be reprinted or outlined here in Thailand. Did any foreign journalist commented in details

on this matter?

As I still am a bit confused what the contents of the wrong-doings should be? According some other people it could be, that just some people want Mr. Sondhi not to be able to rally anymore?

Please note as you all know now, don't paste if found anything here, just link it, if it's been published best outside Thailand (local laws).

Thanks for any claryfications on this point.

ColPyat >

Of course you guys are right, and TRT will get the majority, for sure. We all know that,

I was just telling what my friends feel and told me. This is not the majority for sure.

Question for ColPyat & Orion76:

Do you think Thaksin is the right PM for this country? (straighforward question).

Please let us know why & your opinion. I agree that he also did some good things

too, but overall I believe his not the right person anymore, as his politics are

to short-minded and are just feeding some wallets of his own and his friends etc.

and is not beneficial for Thailand. That's my stand.

I basically read since 3 years 2 major English Newspapers (Nation & Bangkok Post),

and discuss with my Thai Friends, weekly the political situation here.

Of course as a Farang (and even Thais), well all never get the whole story 100% from both

sides, but one thing is sure, we all can have our opinions right?

Nice afternoon folks

Sushiman

Nice recap Bulmercke there what's going on here.

News from Voting Thais in Bangkok & Isaan:

All my Thai friends here in Bangkok I know, are going to the polls today, with a big anger in their stomach.

Actually they all would like to tear their ballots apart as they told me, but as we have to play this game, they will all vote "Not vote".

The only solution to this undemocratically reply of Mr. Talk-sin towards the growing allegations against him, which he up to date only found briefly time to answer some serious questions. He's clearly trying to hide some wrong-doings, with a monologue (with all Thai People) and misuse of his political position.

My Thai friend they all are fed-up of his lies and big-mouth twisting of Mr. Talk-sin. His time is over, he just doesn't know it yet. Even if he will get voted again the Bangkok people who understand the situation, will not give up until he's gone.

Even my Girlfriends up-country Isaan family all decided to go voting "No Vote" as they also don't see any sense in these elections.

One Man, One Country, One Purpose, One Vote:

TRT = Thaksin (Talk-sin, Tax-sin etc.) Rules Thailand!!!

Let's hope the rest of the country, also see's through the golden TRT curtains.

Yesterday again he told the press, he might consider to step down. How many times, do we have to hear his promises, changing moods, ideas only when it's time to get some sympathy points, and play the nice guy??

"I would like to make friends with the press", he told yesterday the press, "because they didn’t' treat me right". Poor Mr. Talk-sin. What is he doing? If opposition or journalists, would like to get some answers concerning the allegations, he simple changes the subject and doesn't reply.

He's so fake, this guy! I hope he will be punished soon, for his arrogant wrong-doings and his incapability off listening to other peoples opinions

and media bashing, drug-addicts bashing, muslims bashing and whatever you can read in the press since several years.

A dictator has nothing lost in a democratic country, and he finally has to understand that!

Vote "No Vote" the only solution here, my dear Thai People!

chock dee Thailand

Strange campaign, odd election

By Peter Janssen, dpa

One of Thailand's oddest election campaigns in its 64 years of democracy wound up Saturday evening with neither fanfare nor violence but plenty of confusion about the post-polling period.

Campaigning was officially closed at 6:00 p.m., Saturday. Voting starts Sunday at 8:00 a.m. and ends at 3:00 p.m.

The past two months of campaigning have been marked by mass protests in the streets of Bangkok calling for the resignation of caretaker prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra prior to the polls, and an oddly quiet countryside.

Instead of usual poster wars and frantic canvassing for votes, campaigning has been a staid, one-party affair, similar to a communist country, with the prime minister and his leading Thai Rak Thai party encouraging people to come out and vote.

Thailand's three main opposition parties, for the first time in decades, have boycotted the snap election to protest Thaksin's alleged dictatorial powers.

Thaksin, whose Thai Rak Thai party won the 2001 and 2005 elections on a platform of populist policies, has chided the opposition for not playing by the rules and for being "undemocratic."

The opposition leaders have argued that Thailand doesn't need another election but instead needs a new round of political reforms to guard against what they view as the rise of populist prime ministers who use their popularity among poor voters to undermine democratic principles such as checks and balances, press freedom and respect of parliamentary procedure.

Thaksin, whose party won 19 million votes of the 32 million votes cast in the last election in February 2005, has vowed to stay on as prime minister if he secures more than half of the ballots on Sunday.

The opposition, civic groups, students and academics have staged near daily anti-Thaksin protests in Bangkok over the past two months and are urging supporters to vote against him.

The three opposition parties won 13 million votes in the 2005 election, so observers estimate that 16 million "no" votes would be needed to block Thaksin's return to power.

According to pre-polling surveys an estimated 31 million Thais, about 70 per cent of the 45.2 million eligible voters, will cast their ballots in what has been dubbed a virtual referendum on Thaksin's popularity.

Thaksin dissolved parliament and scheduled a snap election in response to a groundswell of popular opposition to his rule, especially in Bangkok, the capital and home to Thailand's middle and upper classes.

A broad swathe of Bangkok's better-informed, better-educated denizens were outraged by Thaksin's family sale on January 23 of their 49 per cent stake in Shin Corp, the Shinawatra business empire that hold government concessions in the country's largest mobile phone service, the national satellite network, a TV station, an Internet service and a no-frills airline.

The Shinawatras sold the family-held Shin Corp to Temasek Holding, an investment arm of the Singapore government, for 1.9 billion dollars in a tax-free deal via the stock exchange.

Besides highlighting the benefits that the Shinawatra clan has allegedly accrued during Thaksin's five years in power, many accused the prime minister of selling off sensitive national concessions to a foreign entity.

The post-election period is expected to be chaotic, no matter what the outcome at the polls.

"We're clearly in unchartered waters," said Chris Baker, a long time political observer and co-author of the book, "Thaksin: The Business of Politics in Thailand."

"Nobody really knows what's going to happen," said Baker of the post-polling period.

Analysts predict the election results could lead to violence, more protests or a constitutional crisis, since it is unlikely that the Thai Rak Thai will be able to fill the 500 contested seats in Parliament.

Thai Rak Thai candidates will be the sole contenders in more than half of the contested constituencies. Under the Thai constitution, they must secure more than 20 per cent of the votes in uncontested constituencies.

Given Thaksin's unpopularity, especially in the southern provinces which are the traditional stronghold of the opposition Democrat party, it is seen as unlikely that Thai Rak Thai will win enough seats to form a Parliament.

Source - Bangkok Post 01. April 2006

when does someone go out and educate those people about the realities

he gets beaten on the head by a chair...

Thaksin did all in his power to stop information getting to the people. That includes using state power on the ground to campaign for TRT. It's not fair to say that Democrats didn't do anything at all - they run in every constituency, and they campaigned, but were no match for TRT's dirty games.

As for elections - PAD and the Opposition do not recognise them, whichever way chips fall, and protests will continue.

It's of course worrisome that army is pulling towards Bangkok, if what Colpyat says is true, but polls give Thaksin only about 20% support here - he won't dare to take Bangkok by force, or the South, which will be "No Thaksin zone".

What the Democrats tried was not education, it was insulting.

The Democrats need to educate people on how they would do a better job.

Telling everyone for the 100th time why their favorite person is a crook, without showing any proof, is NOT EDUCATION - it's SLANDER.

Telling everyone you are boycotting an election, while calling yourself a Democrat, is NOT EDUCATION, it's HYPOCRISY.

Dear Thailable,

You seam to be so well informed. Why don't you tell us "what" actually

the Democrats where trying to say in Chiangmai and if wrongly, what would you

have told them, if you had the guts, to go into Thaksin's territory and speak about your point of view? I really wonder? Did you ever read the Newspapers in the last view months?

Are you one of the TRT supporters, who keep up bashing the other side, but never can

explain why you support your corrupt hero?

Enjoy your dinner

as most upcountry people ........... don't like to read, or can't?

PS/ Sorry my English, it's not my native tongue

Sushiman that is a totally untrue stereotype statement about the upcountry people and a good example of what they have been bombarded with constantly over the last month. I'll forgive you, as English is not your native language, but the comment in that my wife made about your statement is, unfortunately, against the forum rules to post in any language.

Dear Lukimar,

Sorry which rule do you mean? (I'm a Newbie and maybe better go check the rules first! Yes).

Of course I didn't meant all, and your wife most probably, is one of them who understands what is going on. I never want to blame the countrypeople for all 100%. How would I dare..

This of course is everywhere for all groups in our society: There are educated and undecucated, nice people - not nice people - honest and corrupt people and anything in between of course in all groups of society. So should our opinions be, open for critics and openness even if a part of our own group is concerned, right?

Maybe even some Thaksin supporters have their right points and good views too, which are valid.

Thaksin of course is not 100% evil and did only bad things. It just was tipping over, and I guess it's to much to let him be PM anymore (just my opinion).

That's what this forum is about, and I hope and suppose no stereotpye statements is taking

for all people mentioned to serious, as in every group not all can have the same opinion and therefore never all should be included. If it sounded like this, I apologize and it was not my intention to make it look like this.

I'm just talking here about the majority, which maybe and most propably are being uneducated or pulled in the wrong direction, due to controlled gov. TV Media and quick loans and wrong promises etc.

By the way it was also a serious question, as I really don't know how many people upcountry can't read? That's why I put the question mark.

Nothing against the upcountry people at all. My gf is also from Isaan and I learned alot from them. It's just a fact that lower educated countries or regions tend to to have more dictatoral and corrupt rulers, no? And the majority of the country people are of course less educated also do to their hard work on the farming side etc. and also the lack of time, to study all newspapers, go to school etc. etc. No blame at all!

I also don't clearly mean undeducatad in general terms. I even guess upcountry people have in generel e.g. a better "emotional intellegence" than city people, as especially Isaan people are famous for their humor, family sense, down to earth living style and hard working spirit etc., which is being lost sometimes here in urban cities.

So yes your right, it was a bit to sterotype and I apologize for that.

So keep up the good posting and sorry if you missunderstood my opinion for all country people.

I'm just talking for this matter, in this case for some people upcountry, who are not to be blamed but the people who pay them, and false inform them, should be.

and last not least, we have also the same problem here in the city of course. But of course

I hope less, which the election results maybe can and will show.

nice day

Sushiman

Taoism: shit happens

Buddhism: if shit happens, it isn't really shit

Islam: if shit happens, it is the will of Allah

Catholicism: if shit happens, you deserve it

Judaism: why does this shit always happen to us?

Atheism: I don't believe this shit

Unquote

I like this one, let me add:

Thaksinomics: if s...t happens, i'll sit on to clean it (in reality: whitewash it)

They cannot see or take in that in real terms instead of doubling / trebling there wealth etc., they are in fact doubling / trebling their debt.

Please someone out there or above give them the sense to see the reality before it,s to late.

In my humble opinion

marshbags

Hi Marshbags,

Great, thanks for your update from upcountry. These shows clearly how dangerous short-mindend Thaksins TRT's politics are, and even worse how short-minded the people think upcountry! No blaim as lack of education (are the TRT's doing anything there?) is guess here the evil's cause, of the greedyness and unwillingness to see the trap their into now. Or maybe I guess they just all hope for some dept-release as aleady been tried last week with 5'000 farmes demonstrating in front of Khrun Thai Bank. If TRT is continuing like this, we will see more coming to Bangkok, begging for dept-release in the future.

How can Thaksin claim, that this is in the benefit for the country? What's the point of very good economy, when everything’s gets more expensive and only a view friends & cronies of the TRT's get the big cash flow in their own pockets?? Do we want that to continue again there?

Why do the upcountry people tolerate this, and can't see behind the curtains?

One important thing has to change!! Media control by Thaksin and government. This I guess is the major problem here, as most upcountry people don't get the more fair open and therefore critical press, as they don't like to read, or can't?

That's exactly what disturbs me so much, and even here some hopefully still "pro democracy election guys in the forum who praise this Sundays election as an act of democracy"?, why don't you use your intelligence and look beyond the golden curtains why the people upcountry are voting for him, and why mostly there? Why the understanding middle-class and even more people here are in this forum are against him. Check out the education balance, and you will clearly see why.

You truly believe there are no hopes and not other good politicians here in this country!? Wrong, Thailand has an amazing big quantity of well educated people, and just recently most of those voices have been finally heard, as they join together now and for the first time many ordinary Thai People, are more interested in politics too (a good turning point, thanks to corrupt Thaksin, the only point where Thailand can thank him).

But still Quantity doesn't mean Quality. So if somebody is misusing this Quantity (with tricks) I don't think this is democratic at all!

The legal government is misusing its power at its very best. Why don't the Pro-Thaksin side get this for once?

You want to live in a country where the poor get poorer and the richer get richer, and the understanding better-informed middle-class have nothing to say, because the short-minded upcountry people get their hands on quick cash and are the majority voters?

It's like giving your uneducated teenager his first credit-card, and he'll sure buzz off for some over-shopping (Thaksin calls this stimulating the economy). How many would misuse it? I guess the most uneducated people would. That's exactly what AIS and all these companies need and want. Who gets the big cash? You know hopefully now at the end of the day, how will!

This election is not democratic at all! It is clearly only a whitewash to pro-long and hide Mr Thakins wrong doing! Why you think he never agreed to talk with anyone about the allegations. He did once live on TV in a famous talk-show. Over 20 lies have been counted and he seemed to be very nervous. He just can't talk and do politics also with other people in a dialogue; his monologue style of doing politics is the only one that counts.

A big dangerous monologue in a hijacked airplane (Thailand) that still is shacking (This was a remark by a Democrat, who hit the nail on the right spot!)

Very dangerous. Thaksin supporters wake up and think for the future of Thailand. It's time for a change or else we will start to sink very soon, and the whole country will be split into two (South and North) and in Bangkok the battlefields on both sides, will go on for ever, if he clings to power, as he's seams wanting to. The depts will rise, the costs will rise and the countries so called economic wealth will be distributed once again by a view families and cronies.

Wake up guys, get real and kick these corrupt people out (or help us to do so). We all can do our part, by talking and education the people who don't get it yet! Or be active in our little part. One by One. For Instance go and support the PAD rally once, I was twice there, and the people are great, friendly and many of them are just normal Thai People (Students, Banker ladies etc. etc.) who see also beyond the golden curtains, TRT is still trying to hang up over their bank accounts. Read the papers, go to the Universities and talk to the people there, listen to journalist who is the only ones in this country who are actually doing the "Watchdog role". Most other constitutions are all corrupted and are paid off by TRT or Thaksin.

Peacful and United against Corruption! Try it, it could be done.

Recent EGAT ruling. A glimpse of hope, that even in the higher ranks and courts, the people is shifting their opinions too, and start to think long-term for the good of Thailand.

Marschbags, keep us up to date, this weekend, and keep an eyes on changing money hands!

Nice day folks

Sushiman

PS/ Sorry my English, it's not my native tongue

tks, wow 1 day that would be very quick.

but guess with all those irregularities it might go up to the max. lenght you also noted.

cheers lukamar

Sawadee Khrap

& good night

I'm off to dodo-land

Lukamar

I got you now. Anyway of course this was not a forum suggestion, just my opinion.

(Besides, I guess most of you guys (or ladies) have mostly some Thais around you, where

opinions, suggestions etc. are being shared too)

I wonder how many people "this time" are being caught by receiving or distributing a view bucks to vote for the right person. Or you guys think this time, they will save the money, as they will get elected anyway?

Yes, Lukamar I'm afraid you’re right; they will be reelected anyway, even with not a full house, Thaksin and his crew are already preparing their lawyers to fix any missing seats etc., by twisting constitution or election laws, so they could open again. Interesting he's claiming he knows these laws very well. But on the other hand if some charges are against him or them (like the EGAT ruling), he's claiming that he doesn't get the law, and will have to study it later.

See how quick the wind changes everyday in this "TRT = Thaksin Rules Thailand" camp? Same as his moods, opinions and talks about his critics, he's willingness to speak up against the allegations etc. etc. Moody winds, blow in only one direction: Save his face and restore power to someone trustful, so he can go and buzz off to enjoy his billions. Does he really want to bring Thailand to further heights? (did he ever tell us, that his predecessor Chuan Lekpai, did a big step

b4 him, to let these growth happen at all, and besides the whole region was booming due to strong exports also triggered by China?) No everything Thailand has gained for, he claims his own. And the people upcountry, still believe in money-cows flying around for free! (yes he did some good things too, sure!). But overall, was it for Thailand? Do you believe him? Will the farmers learn

self-rulling? I guess this centralized nearly communist stlye leaderhsip can't control this country anymore.

See newest "Twisting" against Sondhi for a matter which is or was not at all on his agenda (to give any bad intentions or bad words to the beloved His Majesty the King) to try to lock him up now, so the original claims, will be once again bunkered in the sand. We had this story also before, when he was new elected as PM b4, but will he get away with it today?

Just today or yesterday, he claimed again to BBC, that he was not involved at all with his

family business and he want's to save Democracy ...read above what some newspapers say to this.

Back to reopening the house after the election:

This will be the interesting point, will they have the guts to go that far, and open the house and reelect a new PM, even if not legal (I mean many things nowadays are suddenly legal or illegal, depends on which lawyer or politician has the better connections)

Money rules these crises, the losers are (or will be) clear the weaker ones, but I think this time, the "understanding" Thai people (which I really admire for their peaceful endurance and strength), will not give up until this corruption will be cleaned off the streets, and people using politics for shady own interests will not have the grips anymore. Or hopefully just less than before (I mean less corrupt people, some they just change hats, and continue under new groups).

I think the people will not give up, even peacefully it could be achieved, even after the same old

cronies are taking over this airplane again once his gone. The main problem (I mean this could go on 4-ever if he clings to power) however should leave this important job please soon.

His short-minded politics, will not help Thailand at all, even if he has now good intentions, as the

big biz deal is on the bank now. I never thought he did a good job. So so, with some luck of the

Democrats doing the hard work before him, and an export driven region, where all countries around Thailand where profiting from big growths. I think yes maybe some other good TRT politicians who are clear less corrupt or not, could take over with a stronger oppostions, until the

next-next-next etc. etc. elections, hopefully will give back one day power to the Democrats.

Why the Thai people anyhow mostly like to have some big-mouth, show-off as a leader??

Soap mentality? Politics shouldn't be about big mouths, selfish claims (I'm a big guy, and I can think with two sides of my brains, I remember reading after the Shin Corp sales) and talk before you think. See Abhisit, he's modest and clever in his opinions and tactics and sure sitting in a boat were politics is about politics and the country, and not politcs for their own wealth*. I'm sure he would do a much better honest job!

*I'm not claiming all TRT members are like TS, but the ones who are not, they have at the moment anyway nothing to say, as only one man pulls the main strings, right? Is that a party group, or a one-man show? I mean even the idea of this snap-election was as far as I know, one of his short-minded quick action ideas.

I hope they will not give up! We need another PM and maybe even much better another party taking over.

Anyway does somebody know when the "Snap-Erection" will be normally counted out, and

be published? How long does this take?

so Thailand can finally start something else than this stupid election, which was just clear some time buying to shift some allegations under the sand.... but I guess wrong calculated ... the people of Thailand are not "all" (Quality please b4 Quantity, Sense b4 Non-Sense, Ethics b4 Corruption etc. etc. you election-pro only and count head - freaks) going to accept this, hopefully.

Good luck Thailand

....what was the name of that song again...?? they play everywhere ....?? shubi dubi...

Hi Lukamar,

I guess everbody (Thai citiziens which never missed any polls in the last year)

is allowed to vote here (you mean the Democrats themselves?).

And if we (the ones how would like to see a wind of change) get 50% of votes against Thaksin, even "No Votes = Tick the No Vote Box" (he said he will step done if he doesn't get 50% of "all" votes, right?).

So if you tick the No Vote Box (which you can do), you can cast your opinion to vote for noone, which I think is a better boycot of these elections, than not go at all to the polls.

Agree?

Sorry maybe I didnt get your point or the news?

Please clarify your point.

Cheers

Sushiman

26 March - BTS Phrom Phong - Emporium - Slideshow "A peacefully unitited rally"

Really bad news that today and yesterday some Thaksin supporters in Bangkok and Chiangmai are now turning a peaceful demonstration/rally into a fist war. How much did he heat them up, during his rally speaches, I wonder?

I hope it will end peacefully once the "Care-shaker" has stepped down and released his hijacking from this shaking airplane (Thailand).

Demonstrate - Raise your opinons: YES!

Acts of Violance: NO!

Vote for "Not Vote" on Sunday, and save the country.

My opinion to these elections!

I hope the Democrats will come back on the next election after this one.

Khun Abhisit seams to be a more reasonable less corrupt, down to earth politician to me.

"No Vote" I think is the best solution here for this Sunday.

Does anyone know when the results will be normally counted and published?

Days, weeks?

Cheers folks

let's wait and see

Thanks for the updates, so I don't have to check Nation and this forum both at the same time!

Great tool this forum, I wish Thaksin had something like this for his government (not only collecting postcards claiming that it was all from his fans, throwing them in a box, and not reading them).

I think it's not a main matter of TRT or the opposition now.

The main discussion is currently sure the caretaker himself, which doesn't understand that he topped over with many actions within his several years of mainly dictator-style rule, of non-tolerance for other thinking MP's and other people, constitutions etc. which didn't agree with him. And sadly even provinces only agreed and ruled by TRT, received his help or attention if needed (see south - quick fix with military force).

Also I never agreed on his reaction (actions) towards several other main events in the past view years:

1. Bird flu (covering up and hiding the story initially, for who?)

2. Tsunami (arrogant no help needed from abroad but than only fixing "very quick" the main tourist beaches with gov-money, the rest the private industry had to jump in). But again playing the hero on CNN (remember the interview?)

3. Paying back quickly all Thais depts (in order no 3rd country could look it the gov.-books any more) as clearly pro-Shin and other cronies interested insider biz politics have been done.

e.g. state owned telecommunications privatized, monopolized and squeezed out until just recently the shares among other newly invested new companies , again thanks to politics, good running investments, were right to sell at it's highest possible value (with very dubiouse post boxes transactions in the Virgin Island and Singapore)

4. Most probably amendening during his period several laws, which clearly helped him to 3-5 times grow his own family wealth?

5. Overreacting on the drug war with a too quick clean up, to reach his date-lines (as I heard there where more dead people than in the whole IRAQ-War. Please correct me if not true)

I wonder how many innocent also (only) drug-addicted people got shot, by just possessing

a little quantity, or coming into the wrong way of some trade involved police-men’s etc.

6. The main important media (TV's) which is still up date restricted showing all other political ideas and rally’s life and with full coverage (I wonder how quick they will show the opposition etc. talk on date's TV News?)

7. Always reacting very sour and sometimes even childish, if someone was not his very same opinion (I thought his actions sometimes where to quick too, a bit short minded; see Mega projects, where foreign companies invited to invest claimed, that there was no substation plan for the most of those projects)

Especially and finally what kicked off a national debate (which in my sense is not a current crises, but a very good long hidden discussion popped up now, which finally helps to understand that it can and must go on with another style of a more major democracy here in this wonderful country) with this

8. Shin deal and self-enrichment with no taxes being paid (the other day I heard even a noodle seller on the street has to pay taxes). Even still praising he was not involved in business anymore (as gov-regulation a PM, should not be involved in current biz during his time in gov) but than having the need to explain why the Shin deal was ok.

I thought his children were officially taking care of those various biz, including of course other co-owners? So why does he try to explain us then his legal actions in the first place?

This explanation that was promised by him last Fridazy was just a bag of air. No details of course. Is anyone studying and checking if this deal and shares movement were ok? As far as I know it was rejected by a so called independent court, that there would be no further investigations. Why? Why not check the matter and then see if it was right or wrong?

And than he should be charge if guilty, as he proclaims always of standing himself on

the side of the law.

I also don't agree (yes both sides do it, but not in such a communist and organized why) that people have to be paid a 5 days wage to attend a "we love you-rally" for his very own sake, but not for the countries sake, which is asking for political reform “without him” but not a farmers (90%) fun fair meeting here in Bangkok. Nothing against farmers, but do they really

understand why to vote for whom? I guess money talks again here unfortunately. How long still to come? This has to change.

I think in Thailand the government has to learn, that yes the farmers can vote to, but are they

really up to date, what is going on in their own capital in the country? I think they have daily needs, and this is what Thaksin is solving in a most probably fixed (quick again) way, to keep his voters happy. But in the long term many economist claim that Thaksin is doing the wrong way for the good of the people in the countryside. Short fixed solutions (like bank lowns wich

everone is happy to get a lend a quick buck, but can they repay all those new depts?)

See also controversial US-Thai FTA debate, where even many farmers don't agree. But no one is allowed to raise his opinion, sadly.

So I think the only solution to the voting problem, would be very strict punishments for any payments done during and before a election, and an opposition, which has a fair gov-fund to

do similar voting media methods, like TRT’s clearly has his best connections to win every time, especially within the most populars TV-Stations.

I'm very happy and see that the middleclass is “now” finally here and stepping up and raising their voices with many other intellectuals to think it all over again. And starting to check matters. The pros and contras of a rulement under Mr. Thaksin is I believe sure popped up to be a more contra than pro and will spill over, very soon without Mr. Thaksin as PM.

I most admit I also had the impression he also did some good things too, as the economy overall here in Thailand seams to be healthy and still growing. Maybe other points which could and should be mentioned here and other posters did so too on this great platform. So let's not forget also what good he did, what was in the benefit for Thailand. But overall I think it’s time for him to leave now and pay back what he took from the country. Give some money of his profit e.g. the Shin deal, to the country back (he clearly enriched himself with laws and actions done during his political career). The people and/or gov. could make good use of it, then it will stocked up in a Swiss bank account forever.

He gave us Thailand some good things to, but I sure believe he took more than he gave back, so if he want’s to be remembered as a great leader, which finally stepped down on ‘understanding’ oppostion, he could do it in a gracefull way. If he understands this will

be needed too, maybe other parties or oppositions, would step back for any further legal actions. As overall the whole economy is in good shape and if he made profit with the gov.-help and gives some back, everyone could benefit. Him and Thailand. Or not?

Sound’s a bit utopic, I know, but this would be a favorable solution, for all of Thailand, I believe.

And he would be remembered as the clever good biz-man PM, who finally shared his wealth,

for the good of the people (as he's proclaims during each rally, like Friday).

Nevertheless I can't resist to post this pic, as it should bring some humor is this debate too:

Origin Pic: Nation (mocked-up)

I hope it will be a peaceful rally today, and I hope both sides give each other ‘more’ time to talk it all over (a current re-election is really a joke as due to the 90days rule even TRT members, who would like to change their party, would have no legal why of doing so and other time constricted reasons).

And finally the TV media has to stop to favor TRT! And hopefully our caretaker, can finally

take care of other people’s opinion too, and not only shout it out, to gain some point’s when he is under big preassure. Was a bit a weak show this Friday, I think. A bit to fake the whole thing.

(see comments Nation).

An open platform for all (even for poorer parties with less cash) is needed!

So sit back talk together and find a solution (hopefully best and with the understanding of Mr. Thaksin that he just has to step done now). Enough is enough. If he doesn’t get it, the troubles

will continue to be bad one day.

At the moment I think it’s very good for Thailand this whole discussion and todays rally

is a chance for Thailand to become soon, one of the fairest and most open democratically countries in this region. A difficult achievement everywhere I guess , but I hope the ones in charge, and with the power to do so, will finally try their best with talking together, not against each other, to achieve

this goal.

Once he steps down of course and gives back a good part of his profit (yes also with good

biz ideas and transaction too, not only fraud and connections, both) during the last help, he

received from his connections during his time.

A truth which is understandble difficult to admit, but it’s his own mistake if he didn’t think

about the reaction of others, after this mega profit sales to Singpore.

Thanks to the Nation and this forum to keep democracy alive, as it should be, with platforms

and two-way communications. Not Thaksin’s previous way (suddelnly he want’s to talk to

everone). A bit to late? He still has a chance.

Cheers

Nice day - interesting forum!

Sushiman

Soure Original Pic: Nation http://www.nationmultimedia.com/ 05MAR2006

amended by unkknown source

Learning Thai is really difficult, but thanks to such Websites, one can benefit from electronical

help. Cool stuff. thanks!

PS/ Try to learn Thai if you life here, you will be a winner:

Here's a brilliant Journalist from the Nation with a really "hitting the nail on the right spot-artlicle"

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/03/01...on_20001743.php

Quote

STOPPAGE

Hello and goodbye from Democracy scorned

Dear Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra:

I am not sure whether this is supposed to be a greeting or a farewell. It could be both, though, because while we've never talked before, I may not have a chance to write again. No, I'm not going anywhere, but you might be. Politics is funny, huh? Although you may not be laughing, for obvious reasons.

I was tempted to write a long time ago, when you made that world-renowned statement about me in December 2003. "Democracy is not my goal," you said. In your opinion, one "can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and fix people's problems", and there are times when "a pickup or good off-road vehicle will do". I was said to be just a "tool", something that was "good and beautiful" but which should not be the nation's ultimate aspiration.

Great speech! But here's my take: you don't miss the water until the well runs dry. It seems the Sanam Luang crowd and the opposition bloc don't want to use a Rolls-Royce at the moment, either.

I must confess that the election boycott hurts me like hel_l, but let me tell you a little secret: I've gone through this kind of "surgery" before, in other countries with leaders like you.

I'm not one to harbour a grudge. In fact, I'm the most accommodating and forgiving of the lot. Check out my counterparts like Fascism or Communism or even Socialism. Yes, you might have flourished with some of them, but when it comes to downfall, you would never find a place for a soft landing. My point, however, is that the leader of a socialist or communist country could be hanged if he insulted his nation's overriding ideology the same way you did.

I'm not boasting that I'm the best. But it pains me to be insulted by people like you, those who are given opportunities that are hard to come by in other countries, to climb from rags to riches. I had to fight back tears every time you invoked those "19 million votes" to defend your actions, knowing full well that deep in your heart, you never really appreciated my real merits and principles. Without me, your assets-concealment scandal would not have gone through the National Counter Corruption Commission, where they allowed you to defend yourself, and then the Constitution Court, where you again could defend yourself. Without me, you could have easily ended up in a summary investigation like the one launched against the Chatichai administration in 1991.

To be fair to you, I'm different things to different people. Leaders who shared your belief that I'm just a "tool", not an inspiration, have often used me as a stepping stone. Once they got what they want, they forgot all about me. They all have one thing in common though: whenever their backs were against the wall, they called for me.

I'm fed up with those losers, you know. The pattern is all too familiar. They order drug suspects or alleged militants shot in the morning, force news outlets to sack editors in the afternoon, buy off those employed in checks and balances in the evening and come to me with flowers when they have nowhere to go. They don't really know me or my essence. I'm only their springboard and last resort, nothing else.

So, don't be surprised if I act like a woman scorned from time to time. Before asking what's wrong with Thailand's "democracy", following the announced election boycott and considerable public support for it, ask yourself these questions: do you recognise the rights of the Sanam Luang demonstrators to air their disappointment with you? Do you think it's justified for your Shin Corp to sue someone for hundreds of millions of baht for simply questioning its alleged profits from government decisions? Do you honestly think it's right for the government to help provinces that supported your political party first? And when members of the public criticise you, are they "stupid", or are they just performing their duty as Thai citizens?

If you think you can break the rules, then so can I. And don't worry about me, because I can take care of myself. You can go on and complain about anything you like, but please don't pretend this is the end of me. I exist in places where they cherish and foster my real values and spirit.

You said on Monday that you had done your best. Well, sorry, my friend, your best wasn't good enough.

Goodbye from someone you never really knew,

Democracy

Tulsathit Taptim

The Nation

Unquote

what can you say more?

Sushiman