Wanderlust

53 minutes ago, tracy3eyes said:

Many thanks. Still a bit of a headache. Although I have a net pension of well over £2k a month I keep a number of homes and commitments, and I am also often outside of Thailand during a year so being able to do the 65k a month is still not easy. Accessing just the funds I need via ATM when in Thailand was more appropriate for me. So the income letter which I used to get from the Embassy worked best for me and I have a genuine pension and always provided Pension Letter from provider, P60 and bank statements. So the changes make life difficult for those who are not cheating the system and have been in Thai for 15 years! Also previously I dad my own Thai company, paid taxes and provided jobs etc but have to suffer because of these changes. And I am not in a position to transfer 65K this and next month due to ongoing important commitments. So I may well be buggered.

 

I do not understand why they would not accept documents like P60's, Letters from Pension provider etc surely this is proof enough. Whats also annoying is the fact that I have had 10 million going through my Thai banks in the last 10 years. All tide up in property in Thai and Spain at the moment.

 

So if I cannot get a renewal in Sept I will give up! And go elsewhere as I suspect many others will or have to.

 

TI are hurting the very people they should be securing as good long standing genuine retirees.

 

Nevermind!

If you are often out of Thailand in a year, wouldn't it make more sense to just get a ME Non O Visa rather than messing about with year extensions? Or every two years get an OA Visa in your home country? I think these methods would be the preferred alternative for anyone who is not here year round and is a 'retiree' from immigration's point of view. While I agree that TI could be more accommodating, I'm sure some immigrants in every country think the same, but their country, their rules is the only way to view it in my opinion.

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

Given they’re retired, one would hope they’ve saved at least a little they can bump up a short month with.

 

Of course, but it would be easy, especially for some older retired folk, to miss that they hadn't had the required amount one month - you would hope that an IO would be sympathetic to this, but it does seem odd that the rules are not the same in that regard as the marriage/child ones; and equally you could say why are those on a marriage/child extension given this leeway, as you could say the same for them - why didn't they have savings to bump it up?

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

What about them?

Just 3% over

Does anyone earn exactly 65k?

 

No, that is the whole point - if they are actually on a pension and they are close to that figure then a sudden downturn as their funds are due to arrive could scupper them completely.

1 minute ago, onera1961 said:

May be the limit is already very low (40K/400K). 

 

May be if somebody is working and he lost his job for a few months. So the average will work for him. Retirement does not allow work. So, no need for average.

What about exchange rate fluctuations?

Your accountant/lawyer gave you bad advice. “Employment Prohibited” is not a problem. You could have gone to the MFA and had the error corrected, or the chances are the labour office would’ve accepted it anyway.
 
When you entered under visa exemption you didn’t convert anything, You applied for a new visa and once the visa was issued received permission to stay for 90 days.
 
You can apply for a work permit on a Non ‘O’ if the spouse or parent of a Thai.

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You don’t convert anything. You apply for a visa as a prerequisite to an extension of stay.

Not always. I'll try to spare you chapter and verse, but basically I got a non O ME visa on the basis of marriage from the Thai Embassy in London, however I didn't notice until I returned to Thailand that they had mistakenly printed on it 'Employment Prohibited' - this was a problem as I already had a work permit, and it was due for renewal a couple of weeks after I got back. On advice from my accountant/lawyer, I had to travel out of Thailand (I went to Myanmar via Ranong), get my newly obtained visa cancelled as I left, and then come back in on a 30 day stamp. I then had to go to my local immigration office and ask them to convert that stamp to a single entry non O visa (marriage), and subsequently I could then make my work permit renewal. A lot of people don't realise that you can work while being here on the non O marriage, and think you need a non B.

49 minutes ago, glegolo said:

As I understand it you can only get VISA inside Thailand if you are on a conversation to extension of stay....

 

glegolo

Well I know that is incorrect, as you can enter Thailand with just a 30 day stamp, and then have that converted to a non immigrant O visa, as I have done it myself. Extensions of stay are not visas though.

11 minutes ago, DrDweeb said:

IMHO this is the easiest way by far. I am coming up to another O-A shortly, it will be interesting to see if the documentation required in the Thai Embassy in Copenhagen has changed

According to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the OA visa is available within Thailand - this contradicts everything I have ever heard, but have a look on their website, particularly part 3 (Channels to submit application) - http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

2 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

So I should seek the Non Imm O ME Visa at Savannakhet? That may solve a few of my problems. I can tighten my belt to handle my debt crisis and my fiancee is willing to help by doing everything she can. I can easily prove funds of 40 thousand baht, assuming I can stop the transfer of my funds from Bangkok Bank to my credit union. I got my Non-O at Vientiane and they were very lax on the "proof of funds" thing. I had my letter, but had to show them some American documents which seemed to satisfy them. Good advice, so far.

I don't think you can get a non O on the basis of marriage if you only have a fiancee, so was the non O you got in Vientiane on the basis of being over 50?

2 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

No, I got my 1-yr non-immigrant O-A visa in Thailand when I first arrived while I was on my 30-day visa free entry... How many times I need to say it. I did not get my visa while in the USA.

I think you might need to take a photo of the relevant visa sticker to convince some posters...

3 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

That is correct... you can get a 1-yr O-A visa in Thailand.

I flew in for 30-days visa-free, signed lease on condo, went to US embassy and got income affidavit then went to Thai Immigration and was granted a 3 mth O visa & 1-yr O-A visa both at the same time.

 

Also, met an American couple who just moved into our condo 1 month ago who's on their 3 mth O visa waiting until the 800k is seasoned before going back to get their 1-yr O-A visa.

I do have a question for you though - you would have had to get both a medical and a police check in your home country, and I believe the amount required in the bank is lower for applying in your home country, so why did you not apply in your home country?

1 minute ago, JJ Madcow said:

Well i am Danish and i contact Danish Embassy right away when i read about.
British Embassy stop Income letter, As i was sure this was coming.

I got my answer today. As our Embassy was not Allowed so say anything before now.

The Danish Embassy have not being in contact with Thailand / Immigration about this.
Our Foreign Ministry have done that and told our Embassy to stop doing the letter.

 

I like to tell you that our Embassy can easy check our income.

How much we have pay in tax and so on.
As all the infomation is in a database that the Embassy can check.

 

So what ever the problem is between Danish Foreign Ministry and Thailand (Immigration) i think is something else.

 

Only try to give some infomation about it.

 

Kindly.

Thank you for that extra info. The British Embassy have also implied that this was a decision that came from government. That sounds like something I have suspected for a while - that after Thai Immigration told the embassies (or their superiors) that they must verify the incomes being supported by the embassy document back in May, there has been a back and forth ever since trying to either clarify exactly what TI want or to try and convince them to roll back on it as it is not actually possible. Come to October and the embassies/foreign ministries have, one by one, had enough of trying to negotiate, so they start announcing the end of the service, possibly having been assured that income to a Thai bank will be accepted. This, in turn, has led to TI informing local offices that the letters will not be acceptable from next year, with some offices consequently misinterpreting/jumping the gun. We probably will never know all the machinations, but it just about confirms that this was something completely triggered by the Thai authorities, and the only blame to be attached to the embassies (or rather the relevant government department controlling them) is the lack of enough notice to it's citizens. Lets just hope that TI will eventually realise that they are going to be facing a lot more work because of this decision, both in terms of people switching from retirement to marriage extensions, and having to deal with people who turn up without knowing about these changes. I hope that anyone who is unlucky enough to be caught out by this does not lose their rag with the officers they are dealing with, and also that the local officers will make some allowances for people who, through no fault of their own, cannot suddenly switch from income to lump sum.

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You cannot get an O-A visa in Thailand or adjoining Countries.

Only available from a Country where you are a citizen or have permanent residency.

I thought that as well, and was going to post it, but I checked and found this 

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 on http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

You didn't need the 3 mth O visa because you got your visa in the US, not everyone does that. There's only a few Thai embassies in the US. I flew in visa-free for 30 days then got my 3 mth & 1-yr both at the same time in Thailand using the income affidavit from US embassy. It was much easier for me to do here... no police report & no medical were required.

I am assuming that immigration converted your 30 day entry stamp to a 90 day non-immigrant O visa, and then gave you an extension of stay making that up to 365 days based on retirement, or did you specifically apply for a non immigrant OA visa, as that is a different thing and has different requirements than an extension. Also OAs are not available to those here on marriage grounds, unless they are able to change to retirement (i.e. over 50). I don't know if the OA's issued in Thailand are the same as the ones issued at Thai embassies and consulates, but I would guess they are, and those can actually give you almost two years of stay as long as you time your exits and entries to Thailand correctly.

I don't know how much relevance this has, but I had to renew my work permit in October 2017, and they would only give me 6 months, with the reason being that the company I worked for (small weekly local newspaper with my wife as MD) was not showing a profit. And they said they would only give me another one in March 2018 if that had changed. Fortunately it did change by then, but they still refused to renew my work permit, this time because my social security payments were not being made through the company (I was paying them direct from my own bank account, because 2 years prior the Social Security office had told me that I couldn't pay them through the company!). I had, up until then, been getting a work permit renewal every year for about 8 years. I was staggered with the first reason, that the Ministry of Labour could insist on profit being shown, and then totally frustrated the second time when they refused completely. We shut the business down as it could not operate without me, meaning 2 Thais directly lost their jobs, the printer lost a customer, the accountant lost a customer, and the Thai taxman lost both salary and company taxes that they had been getting all those years. 

5 minutes ago, Benbkk26 said:

See this is the problem, some sources say this, some say no, some say for the non-o no proof of income until you apply for the year extension. Already from 6 answers to my question I have had 3 different answers. 

I got a non-immigrant 'O' visa in October last year from the Thai Embassy in London. The only documents required were a copy of my wife's ID card, a copy of our marriage certificate, the completed application form and the fee in cash, plus of course my passport. No evidence of funds required. I think some may be getting confused with the OA visa which does require some evidence of funds. Perhaps if you are applying for an O on the basis of being over 50 they request it? However I always take along my latest bank statement, the original of our marriage certificate, copies and originals of our two daughters' birth certificates, and anything else I can just in case they request it. I have never been asked to show any funds over the years, and I am going back nearly 20 years.

It seems to me that the trend at the immigration offices is towards requesting back up evidence and documentation to go with any embassy letter/affadavit/statutory declaration; if that continues and becomes the norm, whichever country the applicant comes from, then the embassy documents become redundant; in that scenario no embassy would bother to have the service available, and citizens that saw others getting their extensions without them would question their need to have one. Especially if they are able to just produce a Thai bank book/letter/statement showing the required deposit every month. While I empathise with those who are being left high and dry by the likely changes, it does make a lot of sense from a reduction of bureaucracy and streamlining of the system aspect. I hope immigration will be flexible for those left in a perilous position by what transpires.

The most interesting thing about the latest from the Hua Hin IO (and concerning for those whose embassies have yet to say anything about their situation) is that this will be affecting everyone, not just citizens of the UK, US and Australia. This implies even more that this situation has been driven by the Thais, whether it was in reaction to suspicions of fraudulent declarations/documents or simply bringing the income method into line with the lump sum method to make it easier for TI and simpler, more logical and easier to understand for applicants. If what HHIO have said is the way things are going to be, I imagine the combination method will still be possible for retirees, except that the income would have to be coming into a Thai bank. What we don't know though, is if anything else would change, such as needing any additional proof supporting the evidence of money going into a Thai bank, or whether there would be a requirement for it to be be shown as coming from outside Thailand, or if just a bank statement/letter from your Thai bank will suffice.

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

We don't know anything, we don't know what the other embassies will do, much less what TI will do, the only official noise I here is my local IO saying we want the letter. Of course this can change but WE DON'T KNOW.

Of course, which is why I used the words 'suspect' and 'hope' in my post. However I predicted that others would follow suit when the BE announced, and I have been proven right with both US and Australians now announcing, so I think my predictions have been pretty accurate so far compared to others who slammed the BE for their announcement. All I am trying to do is plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Just a quick update - I popped into immigration (Hua Hin) to confirm the info on the 60 day extension, and was told I can do it, which I will be doing today. Unsurprisingly I have not yet had any reply to the email I sent to the Thai Embassy in London asking about what is required to obtain the non O visa, even though I have got one before, but the last one was about six years ago, so I think it should be seen by them as reasonable to confirm with the embassy before departing Thailand! Needless to say I will be taking everything bar the kitchen sink with me to make sure I don't have a problem...

Yes.