logbags

The myth of Thailand being a peaceful Buddhist country is fantasy. Thailand has always had chronic violence, corruption and feudalism.

You must also remember the Chinese run Thailand and they do business with Chinese in Hong Kong, Singapore, the mainlaind and other Chinese worldwide. Half of Phuket is owned by Singapore money so I think the leases will hold up ok. Too many politicians are involved in partnerships funded by offshore money to rock the boat that hard.

Then there is the fact most politicians in Thailand are also of Chinese decent or funded by large family owned companies. Some have billions stashed offshore and own houses worldwide in some cases. Any blatant attempt to cheat foreigners with a law change could be met with a simliar threat by our own countries. Alternatively they could reveal the extent of Thai corruption as a face destroying measure. It could backfire badly on them if the true extent of their plundering ever got out. I'd love to know how much old Banharn has stashed away somewhere.

No, I doubt it would happen unless a zealot or real clean Thai politician ran on a platform of xenophobia against farangs buying up everything. Clean politicians don't exist in Thailand so they have too many skeletons in their own closets to upset investors.

Wikileaks could be interesting if it turned its attention to Thailand, Thaksin and co. Onething the old Chinese 'Jaaw pors' hate is publicity. They like to keep things quiet and hidden.

RE: 'Logbags'

Which is why it cracks me up when so many people, refuse to stop comparing this place to the West. You need to go with the flow, adapt, accept this is not your country and things will never be the same here. That's the very reason this forum is full to the brim with whining and whinging. An inability to accept how things are done in a developing country, on the other side of the world to your own.

I think the gist of what I am trying to get across is this. In Australia you have the Police and courts which are pretty well run. You have the Ombudsman you can go to if you have any problem with them.

You have your local and federal member of parliament you can go to. I have personally taken on the immigration department and won on a number of occasions with the help of my federal member.

You also have the law reform commision and countless other bodies set up to protect your rights. You have the H.I.A that oversees building insurance and standards etc.

In Thailand you have jack, squat, SFA in terms of getting help unless you have deep pockets and the juice to get something done. Personally, I just act and live like a tourist flying under the radar. Leave the Thais to sort it out as eventually it will have to be sorted.

Nothing corrupted ever changes easily and in Thailand only a major catastrophy will change people's mindset.

Let me tell you 2 quick stories just to show you what Thais have to put up with and how bent it is.

My niece just came home after studying hairdressing for 3 months in Phang Nga. The owner of the beauty school came back with her to study English. We were talking about how the cops were so shameless in Thailand.

My niece said her sister cut down a tree on her land in Krabi and used the wood on her house in Phang Nga. They had some left over so rented a truck to send it back to Krabi.

The cops stopped her truck and said it was illegally cut timber and they wanted 8,000 baht to let it pass. My niece explained it was her wood and said she would show him the tree if he wanted. He said no, his commanding officer wanted 8,000 baht or the wood was his.

Now here's the thing, my nieces father runs the illegal 3 digit lottery in his area in Krabi. He pays this very group of coppers a monthly commision. The very copper who picks up the money was the same guy who stopped them for the 8,000 baht. She said everytime the cops need money for something they come knocking on her fathers door.

He either pays up or they won't let him sell his lottery tickets. Then there is my other nephew, he used to sell drugs to all the fishermen in Phang-Nga. They were provided by the police themselves. The cops were his silent partners. You think it is any different in Patong?

I laugh when I hear people wanting to move to Phang-Nga and Krabi, they are WORSE than Phuket by a long way. My wife bought a parcel of land on a mountain top in Phang-Nga for peanuts. Her friend is a high ranking official and she also bought some land. She then organised for a brand new road to be built to the land increasing it's value ten times.

The whole country runs on kick backs and bribery and if you get involved with the coppers they'll milk you dry. If a farang they'll just organise to set you up like they do in Pattaya. Then you have to pay them to let you go like the guy making the stick movies in Pattaya.

He got caught with a loaded roscoe, opium and his collection of porn- yet still walked.

Quality buildings are built by qualified trades men and qualified builders using quality materials, how many do you know in Phuket.

A Thai mate is an electrician, he says the standard of building at half the villas he works at is <deleted>. He works around Surin, Bang Tao and Cherng Talay.

Most of the workers are Burmese and somebody at the labour department must be grifting a fortune off these illegal workers.

I mean you price a job quoting Thai labour costs then employ illegals at half the price. I think it's called....oh yeah racketeering

All the beach paving in Patong was done by Burmese. No wonder the Mayor can afford to build a 700 room resort.

Attached photo of C and N bungalows in 1980's.

It would have to be.. But I would say theres a lot more risk of a 'bad buy' as theres so little zoning and so much luck in what happens around you.

Exactly. My places are near Jung Ceylon but they built the Otop market in front and the bloody water treatment place at the side and back. Trying to offload them for 13 million for both. I'd take 10 and run if an offer came.

Just on land position I'll get an earn out of it sooner or later. Buy something in Bang Jo or up around Cherng Talay perhaps.

I'm still dirty on the wife as we could of swapped one for a nice house up on the hill beside the temple. In those days it was considered a bit out of town so the ball and chain said no. A few years ago I went past my places and some guy from Isarn was raising chickens in the place

They have been rented for 20 years but the missus wisely keeps the rent money out of my grasp.....

But is that because they in particular were a bad buy - which you could have equally have made in Australia?

Well my story has been told here so many times I thought most would know it. I had the choice of Paradise complex which were going for 1.3 million baht. They wanted big upfront deposits so I said no. I bought two places of the plan for 600,000 each and put down 60,000 baht. Two storey shophouse style places.

The Chinese dude was named Paisarn and he didn't have the funds to finish the project so sold it to a Chinese Haw from Phuket who was the shithouse rat. This guy just says f### you they are all now my properties and land.

We fought him in court for over 10 years and he tried to pay off the judge then pay of the appeals judge etc but nobody liked him as he had cheated many people. He got poisoned and died a painful death in hospital.

His brother flew back from America but was shot dead soon after he arrived. His son was at Uni in London and also got shot dead after he came back so the whole male side of the family was wiped out. The wife and daughter gave everything back and even paid court costs.

We had only paid a deposit so had to finish the building ourselves. Did we lose anything? Not really, but if we had of bought in the Paradise we would have made a fortune. However if my granny had balls she would have been my grandfather.

That's probably why I know so much about the system etc and how it all functions. We locked our lawyer into a contract of 150,000 baht so he worked for 10 years for that. We all felt sorry for him so all gave him a sling as he was so determined to not let this Kaew guy win.

I did little as my late brother in law from Phang-nga was our front man at court. Paisarn turned up after hiding out in Bangkok, he was terrified and trembling. All he did was blame the other guy.

I won't do businees with Chinese people because you cannot cannot trust them, if you turn your back or forget to check something they will burn you. Seen if for 25 years now.

This is why you just don't buy into these projects you see as you are effectively a renter even if your name is on some 30 year lease. What happens if the project gets sold like Villa Santi which has been sold countless times. You gotta trust the new owner aint gunna ramp up all the charges etc.

Half these places are owned by shelf companies set up in Hong Kong or Singapore anyway and your on a hiding to nothing if it all turns pear shaped.

The Chinese are the masters of the "switch the materials game" as it is an old strategy of theirs. You set up a show room or condo built to really high specs but when take all the deposits you build with a lower grade of tiles, wood, fittings etc. Many people are clueless to this until a few months after moving in when tiles fall off walls and cracks appear in the mortar in hot season etc. Then in rainy season wood rot sets in in your brand new fascia on the roof etc etc.

Personally I'd rather buy here in Oz where you get a 7 years H.I.A guarantee and actually own the land your home sits on. My nephew is a high ranking official in the Or Bor Tor in Phuket as is his wife, his daughter studies in Australia and live at my house here. I could do business with him but it aint worth getting involved in all the dramas and bullshit doing business in Thailand requires.

People on here think it is only Farangs who have to deal with all the crap. Thais have exactly the same problems with officials, police and crime. They have to deal with exactly the same things about Phuket as we all do.

I'll try to attach a picture of Soi Paradise as it was getting built.

As above, just park in the car park on the left as you pass the kiosk on entry. That's where the staff park, it's free and nobody will bother your bike unless your real unlucky.

Just buy a chain if your worried about it getting nicked. Chain it up like the filth do in Patong.

Houses are being sold now at a record low. A very close friend of mine sold his house. two years ago he was asking 24 mil ( its big and on the golf course) just took 12.5 as he needed the $$

RENT is best deal here.

condos are being overbult

most condos easily sell their 49% share to Farangs but have a hard time selling the remanider 51% so after 3 years when the whole are needs work ( painting, upkeep) its only the Farangs that are around that will pony up the cash or pay their condo fees for upkeep and 49% is not enough to do what needs doing.

So after 5-6 years the condos look like ther 20 years old and no resale value.

Plus with all the new condos being built why buy a used one??

The list of cons against buying is long

The list of pros for renting is long

livinLos is correct, if you crunch the numbers buying is not a sound investment.

We bought two places in Patong in 1987, they have been a total headache and if we'd sunk that money into something in Australia we'd have made a fortune. We now can't get rid of them

I agree totally with the ice-man, why the hell would you bring your life long hard earned dosh into a feudal and lawless country like Thailand?

Especially when sooner or later the powder keg of social injustice is going to blow big time........

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Highly recommended.

And it is only 25% because the number of mainly Chinese tourists is increasing. And besides paying extremely reduced hotel prices, they are spending nothing outside of the hotels.

Frugal Chinese? Who would of ever thought............

Also papaya cream for hard skin or skin tags. In Oz it is called paw paw cream and it is famous for removing hard skin tags etc.

You can also use the "makrut" fruit in Thailand. You prick it with a pin and rub the juice on the hard skin spots.

The Aborigines use urine. You rub urine on hard skin and the acid exfoliates the skin. It works well too.....

Thank you all. I am getting a rather bleak picture. My problem stems from something called a Keratoses. They are small lumps of dry dead skin which afflict people in their 50s and 60s. I have used a gel from the UK called Solaraze. Excellent. But one of the little blighters is looking a little fragile. Did I pick it in my sleep? I need a dermo. Someone else has said the lady in BKK HKT Hospital is good but a butcher. There is also a new clinic that has opened in Royal Marina. It has a dermo there I believe. The search continues.....thanks and keep em coming.

I know your problem well as I have suffered from skin cancers and keratoses for 20 years. I'll explain how you can self treat and you can save some money. My GP in Australia is a dermotologist and laser therapist as well so it will be straight from him via me.

Firstly the kerotosis and surface skin cancers can be fixed extremely well by creams called Efudix or Aldhara. You can buy Aldhara in Patong in seperate little packets for 250 baht. It was originally used as a cure for herpes and works well on that as well. A tube of Efudix cost 45 bucks here but the results are worth every dollar.

I use efudix and what happens is after a few days the area goes red as it searches out cancerous and damaged cells. After a week you look a mess as they all go red and turn in sores that even bleed at times. I call it the leper effect. However you must keep applying the cream lightly for 3 weeks.

After that it takes a week or so but you'll see new skin growing free of all the scaly keotoses's. It is bloody miraculous and I have had great results. Ideally you do need a good dermo as certain cancers need to be cut out.

I'll never need a facelift as I've had about 3 square inches removed from my face and forehead due to skin cancers being cut off.

The pimples on the nut sack are usually only enlarged hair follicle roots. Aldhara is an excellent cream for herpes blisters. The 250 baht satchel lasts about a week used twice daily.

A tube of efudix can last a long time. Aldhara is expensive and comes in the small satchels at about 2500 baht a box of ten. Ten is way too much, that's why a tube of efudix is better.

Solaraze is good but my Dr gave me efudix as it is the best value etc. They all work the same way in destroying skin lesions. Solaraze is a gell isn't it?

Daily treatment after the leper days finish are a good cream with glycolic acid of about 10 to 15%. The best lotion is a brand called "Neo Strata" smoothing cream as it works like cut and polish for the old dial. A 200 mil bottle lasts me 3 months or more.

They also have a cream called "bionic face lotion" but it is expensive for a small bottle. Lastly take some good supplements and fish oils.

I shave my head now and constant shaving also defoliates the skin and eventually removes certain hard pieces of skin. I figure I was born ugly enough so don't need extra hits from the ugly stick.

My old mate used to say to me, loggers your not pretty and your not ugly but you are pretty oooogleeeeeeeeeeeee.

THAT would be great news, to find GOOD ENGLISH food.

Somewhat of an oxymoron the words Good English Food all in the same sentence.

## I wanted to say that too but kept laughing when nobody posted a reply to 'Good English Breakfast' Your average pom would eat shit on a stick and rave about how good it is.

..."seeing older, foreign men with young Thai girls quite distasteful."

Careful, my wife might find that offensive

Just what is the world coming to? Older men being attracted to younger prettier women!! When did this start? Men seeing pretty woman as sex objects, how unnatural.

I think we're in real trouble when a man seeing a woman as sex object is seen as something abnormal or unnatural. I mean it's probably only been going on for a few million years........

and usually dressed in thongs, singled & stubbies

## I'd be careful about slandering people who wear thongs, wife beater singlets and shorts. What do you want people to wear at a beach resort?

I've seen everyone from Gerry Harvey (one of Australias richest businessmen) to Ian "Molly" Meldrum wandering around dressed like that in Bang Tao. You are applying old style class prejudice that doesn't apply anymore.

I was just talking to a mate about this on the phone. He and his mates travelled with me to Thailand in 2004 before the tsunami. He went back last year and thought similar to the OP. I think he even met "Patong Bob" as he was telling him wanted me to meet him.

My friend said none of his mates have been back and probably won't as they like clubs and found them to be too expensive for what you get. I mentioned 3 other guys already, they got pinched three days in a row by the cops for 300 baht a pop. They spat the dummy and have never been back either.

I think if I didn't have the friends I have there I perhaps wouldn't bother myself but after 25 years it is a bit like home for me no matter how bad it gets. I never go out much anyway anymore so I avoid all the nightime dramas.

It's high time the Thais got their shit together to clean up the corruption etc. I won't hold my breath though. My mate summed it nicely.

He said "Sometimes you just get sick of people trying to rip you off all the time"

"talking to you like your some sucker who actually believes their lies"

He said Thais think we're so stupid but if we stopped coming for even one month they would be crying for us to come back. If we're so stupid why is it us who has the money to spend on overseas holidays?

barka...thanks for your reply to OP, but i will forward also your info to my mate....do you have any recent info or sites to find such....google it but no relevant info...

A few years back somebody asked about this place on here. I mentioned about the condos being sold to multiple buyers. Somebody came on very upset I'd mentioned it. Maybe you can find those posts I dunno. They were obviously involved in running the place.

I do know people were turning up to their units to find "other owners" happily living there. I think they said some units had up to 5 owners but that sounds exaggerated. In Thailand anything is possible so who knows?

Buying a cheap crash pad is not a bad idea if your flush and a regular. However, there are plenty of places you can rent very cheap and not have any hassles at all. You then have more options. In a place as unstable as Thailand and Patong it is best to have an escape plan

There has been legalities in the courts in the last few years between the condo owners and the hotel rental leaseholders...major problems...i dont know wether this has been finally sorted or not..i would check this out before purchasing...remember ..BUYER BEWARE..

Indeed, if you see empty land in Patong it's odds on it's in court being fought over. Half these developments get built, half sold, the owners sell the project and the prices and charges change with the new owners etc.

The empty land opposite P.S 2 Bungalows has apparently been in court for over 10 years.

They were going for 3 million or so when first built.

Incorrect.

When they were first built they were advertised for 1,000,000 Bt and in brackets US$40,000 as at the time there was 25 Bt to the US dollar.

I believe it was built by an Irishman and it is true that he oversold many of the units.

These type of places have different prices per floor etc. I know some Aussies paid 90 grand which is over 3 million. I dunno if they are all the same square metre wise.

You need to find out what the title is and if the building is mortgaged or under caveat etc. If people are flogging them off cheap beware as maybe they know something they're not telling you.

Otherwise it's as good as anywhere to crash in Patong.

It is culture in Thailand for the rich party of an accident to cover damages for both parties, as the poor motocy rider cant pay

## This is correct. It is not law it is cultural. Thais have to pay too. This again is not a farang/Thai thing. My nieces son hit a car load of people. She has had to pay over 1 million baht in damages and hosptital bills.

Obviously as a farang people will try it on. I've stopped many times to help people ranging from seriously injured to mildly injured and never been dragged into being blamed.

Also you should not be in the right hand lane on a motorbike. You must be on the left unless moving over to turn right or U turn. You'll never be innocent if your riding in the right lane on a motorbike. Never. I know everyone does and I recently tried to run a checkpoint hidden behind a fortuner in the right lane. The coppers spotted me and I had no helmet on.

The village scout manning the right lane smiled and said quick quick and let me past. The cop yelled out "Police see everything" as I rode off laughing.

Phuket Palace originally got into trouble as they sold the same units to multiple buyers. Has been sold since that. They also advertised like they were right on the beach with great views etc. Total crap of course and pretty normal for Patong. They were going for 3 million or so when first built.

Last time I mentioned this someone came on saying it had been all settled but I never heard what happened. Maybe someone else knows. It was on TV in Australia so wasn't a small story when it broke.

Reasons not to buy.

Lousy position, heavy traffic, long walk to beach, area over developed, ugly building, bad drainage area, road in front pot hole riddled.

Reasons to buy.

??? Can't think of one. Cheap perhaps but you may come home to find someone in your bed.

I was told that too. Was told both Sheraton and Dusit are both full until April. There's a couple of places at the mouth of Laguna that are doing real well. I get very mixed messages, the girl I spoke to was right on the beach in front of the Sheraton and she said it was very quiet.

The jist of the post was firstly the article stating the perceived political instability and the fact I hear and see otherwise to what the T.A.T often says. I think the package tour sector is always ok, it's all the inbetween places that battle.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Hotels claim to be booked out because they have allocated all their rooms to tour companies. This year in particular, the tour companies are not selling all their Thailand packages, meaning empty rooms being reallocate and advertised on the late booking sites and if they are not booked there, they remain empty.

You only have to use your eyes to see how much quieter Phuket is this year. Can you imagine how it would be without the Russians?

Well I'm not rainman myself. I've been in hospitality since 1985 and I always have a good look whilst moving around Phuket. I mentioned to some Thai friends lately it was lucky the Russians were coming and they said they are keeping a lot of places going at present.

I saw an add on TV last night by Flight Centre advertising 8 nights all inclusive on Phuket for $1280. That's cheaper than I normally pay for a 3 month plane ticket. This shows there must be rooms available. Hotels talking up their bookings is a two edged sword. Many people don't go if they think it's going to be too crowded.

The baht is too strong, 29 baht for a USD? It was 36 or so and I remember the pound was 66 or something a few years back. This has a huge effect on spending. The Russians may be flush but many other European are not.

This constant talk of attracting "high end" tourists is tedious. Phuket has guest houses and low end places as well as the big expensive boutique hotels. It is the working class man that keeps places like Patong going.

Then there is the fact Patong is becoming just like any western city with malls and shopping centres taking over with all the western franchises like McDonalds, KFC etc. If things are much cheaper than home people will go, but if everything starts being equal in price or similar, why waste your money on a plane ticket?

If you think the exchange rate doesn't effect peoples spending patterns your deluded.

I was told that too. Was told both Sheraton and Dusit are both full until April. There's a couple of places at the mouth of Laguna that are doing real well. I get very mixed messages, the girl I spoke to was right on the beach in front of the Sheraton and she said it was very quiet.

The jist of the post was firstly the article stating the perceived political instability and the fact I hear and see otherwise to what the T.A.T often says. I think the package tour sector is always ok, it's all the inbetween places that battle.

I wonder if the same persective is held in Europe. Just spoke to a friend at Laguna and she said tourists were thin. The big rush is from the Scandanavians who usually arive Dec 26th onwards. The Russians might well be the saviours of this years high season. Got an email from a Swede last night and he is not coming over as he thought it was all booked out. When I left on the 8th there was empty rooms everywhere. Just who is telling the truth? The T.A.T keep inflating the figures it seems, this is stupid as people hear that and think it is too crowded or fully booked so don't come or go elsewhere. I've seen this twice this week alone.

BRAZIL, India and the Philippines are among the list of must-see destination in 2011, travel exports have revealed.

Using travel trends and statistics, Travel.com.au has released a list of destinations, travel tips and airlines for the new year.

While affordable airfares and its rich culture were the key factors for Brazil’s selection, interest in India continues to rise as well as the Philippines, which is becoming increasingly popular due to the political unrest in Thailand and its untapped beaches.

Old favourites such as the US and New Zealand also made the cut.

Los Angeles was singled out due to the strong Australian dollar and airfares than can be scored for under $1000. Travel.com.au has predicted that travellers will utilise LA as a port of travel and will head down to the south of the US on road trips.

Meanwhile New Zealand has become one of the most sought-after destinations for 2011 with more Australians expected to take shorter breaks to our neighbouring country due to heavily discount airfares.

Holiday patterns will also change next year. Gone are the days where Australian travellers would save up their annual leave over a few years and spend months overseas - holidaymakers will now book their travel two or three months in advance to score a cheap seat.

Adventure tours and cruises will remain popular holiday options, while stopovers will become increasingly popular next year with most airlines allowing a free stopover on most fares.

Australians will holiday for an average of three weeks in Europe, ten days in the US, four-five days in New Zealand and seven days in Asia, Travel.com.au’s research shows.

In Thailand if the cops are too soft crime flourishes. If they go hard they are condemned. What about the two young drug dealers who opened fire with a roscoe just because they thought the guy had cut them off. They shot and killed a young kid.

They would of known the heavy mob was after them and they would be killed. It is understood in Thailand that if you intentionally kill innocents or bystanders your going to get killed unless you arrange to surrender.

The problem is low police salaries have all the police needing to be corrupt just to survive in the system of patronage. Half of them moonlight as bouncers or bodyguards for politicions protecting their empires.

However I keep it all in perspective. Near my house last night some innocent riding his bike was jacked by a gang of young Africans who kicked his head in for a mobile phone. This is common here but uncommon in Thailand.

I'd like the police here to be able to take off the gloves and crack some heads like in Thailand. Here all the crims would be screaming for compo if the police swore at them. That or play the race card.