beautifulthailand99

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Thanks for posting that it is crystal clear if you are caught they will take action. Also looks like if they suspect you of not being truthful which multiple repeated false declarations would confirm, then they are going to go after the overpayment. Wise counsel would suggest that members who flout the rules should probably be circumspect about boasting the fact on an open forum, and should refrain from encouraging others that they won't be caught. Secondly, they should make provision by saving these overpayments just in case they are caught and need to repay them. Lastly, I would never talk about this to fellow expats at the bar, who could ultimately be the ones to whistle blow and dob you in. There are a lot of toxic farang in the LoS who would relish such a thing. Finally, in the absence of new tech that will be impossible to circumvent if you must do it take especial care to cover your tracks, that said I guess in the near future it will be impossible to game the system so you will be caught and will need to pay it back probably through pension deduction at source.

As others have pointed out, the timescale for the tech to bust offenders is a few years away but the tax situation that I have highlighted looks like it could potentially impact much earlier. I'm not up on that process so maybe others can advise.

The two things are linked in order to avoid the Thai authorities taxing your pension you will have to fill in both a Thai tax form and claim exemption under the UK double taxation agreement which will then require the Thai authorities contacting HMRC in the Uk to determine your tax situation. Bingo they then know where you live.

ChatGPT Enforcing monitoring of the frozen pension uplift for UK pensioners living in applicable countries and determining fraudulent claims involves a combination of administrative processes, data management, international cooperation, and anti-fraud measures. Here are steps the UK government's Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) can take: Administrative Measures: Data Collection: Ensure accurate and up-to-date records of all pensioners receiving the UK State Pension, including their country of residence. Regular Reporting: Require pensioners to regularly report any changes in their circumstances, including changes in their residency or citizenship status. Communication: Maintain clear communication channels with pensioners, informing them of their reporting responsibilities and the consequences of fraudulent claims. Documentation: Require pensioners to provide necessary documentation to support their eligibility for the frozen pension uplift. Verification Processes: Implement robust verification processes for pensioners, including cross-checking with other government agencies and international databases. International Cooperation: Bilateral Agreements: Collaborate with countries where UK pensioners reside to share information and verify pensioner status. Data Sharing: Establish agreements for the exchange of information relevant to pensioner status and eligibility. International Task Forces: Work with international organizations to create task forces dedicated to monitoring and preventing pension fraud across borders. Anti-Fraud Measures: Data Analytics: Use data analytics and AI tools to detect unusual patterns or inconsistencies in pension claims. Fraud Detection Units: Establish specialized units within the DWP focused on detecting and investigating fraudulent pension claims. Random Audits: Conduct random audits of pensioners to ensure compliance and detect potential fraud. Whistleblower Hotline: Establish a confidential hotline where individuals can report suspected fraudulent activity related to pension claims. Penalties: Implement strict penalties for those found guilty of fraudulent claims, including fines, repayment of benefits, and legal action. Public Awareness Campaigns: Educate the public, including pensioners and their families, about the consequences of making fraudulent claims and the importance of honest reporting. Technology and Automation: Digital Platforms: Utilize online platforms for pensioners to report changes in circumstances and submit necessary documentation. Biometric Verification: Explore biometric technologies for identity verification to prevent impersonation and identity theft. Machine Learning Algorithms: Implement algorithms that can learn from historical data to identify potential fraud indicators. Periodic Reviews: Regular Assessments: Conduct regular reviews of the frozen pension policy and its implementation to identify areas for improvement. Policy Adjustments: Make adjustments to the policy as needed based on the results of reviews and feedback from stakeholders. Training and Resources: Staff Training: Provide training to DWP staff involved in monitoring pension claims to enhance their ability to detect fraudulent activity. Resource Allocation: Ensure adequate resources, both financial and human, are allocated to the monitoring and enforcement efforts. Legal Framework: Legislation: Strengthen legislation related to pension fraud, including increasing penalties for offenders. Cross-Border Legal Cooperation: Work with international partners to facilitate legal cooperation in cases of cross-border pension fraud. Reporting Mechanisms: Transparency: Maintain transparency in the monitoring process, allowing pensioners to understand how their claims are assessed. Feedback Channels: Establish feedback channels where pensioners can raise concerns or report potential issues with the process. By combining these measures, the DWP can improve its ability to monitor the frozen pension uplift, detect fraudulent claims, and ensure that UK pensioners living abroad receive their entitlements fairly and securely.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/report-a-change-in-your-circumstances No one has addressed the issue re the new Thai taxation of remittances into the country. These thought to be apparently covered by bilateral tax arrangements, so you shouldn't pay twice if you are taxed (or are tax-free if under the limit in the UK) . However for that to apply the Thai tax authorities will need to contact the UK which will then reveal your residency, this leading to freezing of the uplift. Role of Competent Authorities: The tax authorities of the UK and Thailand work together to ensure the agreement is properly applied. They may exchange information and cooperate to prevent tax evasion and ensure the agreement's effectiveness. Benefits: Encourages Trade and Investment: By providing clarity and predictability on tax matters, the DTA encourages cross-border trade and investment. Reduces Compliance Burden: Taxpayers do not have to navigate complex tax systems in two countries, reducing administrative burdens. Prevents Double Taxation: The primary goal is to ensure income is not taxed twice, which would otherwise discourage international business activities. Consultation: Individuals and companies with cross-border activities between the UK and Thailand should consult with tax professionals or advisors familiar with the specifics of the DTA to ensure they are compliant and taking full advantage of any benefits provided.

It isn't hard to figure who is defrauding the DWP on this thread. You will probably get away with it unless you get gobby in the bar and give it away to somebody who knows the score.

For the record I would try and avoid it if I could and the penalties if found would only equal what I had been overpaid anyway. That said, the old wing and a prayer system is giving way to an all seeing IT monolith, which will make that approach impossible sometime in the near future. And that's without adding the Thai taxation system that might require you to register with Thailand for tax purposes data that would be shared with the UK to avoid double taxation. Now that's a real kicker !

I didn't say that - information can be exchanged via the sharing of bespoke files on an ad hoc basis. The Bill now at the Lords stage gives the required legal authority to enact that.Government systems have long had common data sets such as name, NI Number and date of birth to match up data.

Here's the progress of the enabling Bill, it's in the Lords now at Committee stage. https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3430 I was right about Statutory Instruments https://publiclawproject.org.uk/resources/how-the-new-data-bill-waters-down-protections/ Automation and AI are playing a more and more significant role in how government makes decisions and carries out its functions, from education to healthcare, to immigration and welfare. Data protection laws are currently some of the most powerful tools available to protect individuals against unfair uses of data and technology, and to enable people to find out how their data is being used and how decisions about them are made. This Bill will weaken some of those vital data protection laws The Bill gives the Secretary of State broad powers to amend our data protection laws via statutory instrument, without adequate scrutiny by Parliament. The wide powers given to the Secretary of State in Clauses 5, 6, 12 and 114 should be removed or narrowed.

I wouldn't worry about this - what will be will be and is in the future anyway. No one will be going to prison, but being aware this will probably happen at some point in the near future is no bad thing.

I have never said that I have always be clear that this is work in progress.

Read my links in detail. It's all there I worked in designing computer system for government and was involved in senior level meetings at the design and build phases of such systems so have a detailed knowledge of the process and ministerial initiatives and drivers.

Just cause would be that they are suspected (subject to additional checks of proof required from the claimant) of overpayment of monies. All of these issues will be addressed and sorted out at the design phase of the system. A Statutory Instruments or instruments can be used to amend current legislation to deal with any legal anomalies and will no doubt be part of that process.

I think we can fairly assume from the evidence presented to date that ; 1) The technology and the political will exist to implement such a system. 2) Work is underway to create such a system. 3) That as a minimum from the date of implementation, frozen pensions will be applied automatically from that date subject to verification by the claimant. 4) Past over payments may or may not come into scope.

UK Border Force work with the airlines to gather that data for their Semaphore system - it's all there. Big Brother really is watching you. Passengers on flights entering and leaving the UK are screened by the NBTC.[citation needed] The airlines pass data (passenger name record, or PNR) on each passenger to the NBTC, including date of birth. The NBTC tracks former flights taken by each individual going back up to a decade, and determines whether an individual's flight history could be suspicious. Each individual is checked against criminal record databases. Exit checks are conducted at ferry ports connecting to European ports by the ferry operators.[4] It looks at the e-Borders Semaphore system for suspects. It tracks around 250 million passenger movements per year. It operates the Pre-Departure Checks Scheme. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5abb708440f0b67d67479bb5/An_inspection_of_exit_checks.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Border_Targeting_Centre

It would be done in batch runs Border Force would run a program to produce a file of targets that would then be taken to the DWP for the cross checking. The Border Force query would be to produce a list of British Citizens over the age of 65 who have left the country for a period of more than 6 months without returning. With that file DWP will run that against UK Pension Claimants who are receiving full benefits. Frozen benefit claimants will have flag already, so are easily excluded from the trawl. Then send a letter to their registered address asking them to provide proof of residency and reply within 28 day or some such time or the account will be assumed to not be entitled to the uplift. GDPR can be covered off with a Statutory Instrument rather than requiring new legislation. https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons-information-office/l07.pdf Job done.

Most IT work is outsourced. The minister gets a report on their desk outlining savings and costs to implement. With £100 million quid on the table for a modest small project in the scheme of things, they will bite the companies hands off for it.

Ok you get the letter, and then you are required to submit proof that you are living in the country entitled to the uplift. Bank statements, residency permits or whatever. Failure to do so within a time frame is taken to be indicative that you are in a country where frozen pensions apply. That said, it looks like it will take quite a time to implement. https://www.joe.co.uk/news/government-confirms-dates-it-will-start-monitoring-bank-accounts-423419 It means the country’s top 15 banks, who deal with the vast majority of DWP payments, are going to implement systems that automatically track claimants’ accounts to see if there has been any change of circumstance, such as large cash deposits. The DWP has confirmed that they will begin testing the system from 2025, with a wider roll-out from 2027, and the aim of full implementation by 2031. “The policy has been designed in collaboration with operational colleagues, whereby a period of ‘test and learn’ will begin in 2025 with a limited number of banks and building societies,” the DWP said. “The purpose of this approach is to get the data sharing agreement between DWP and third-party data holders right, before implementing the policy on a larger scale. After the focused test and learn, the policy will begin gradual roll-out (from 2027/28), with it reaching full scale by 2030/31.”

Because it is being worked on and hasn't been implemented yet. But it will be because it is a very simple and cheap project to execute against a constituency that has no representation back home in any meaningful sense. The issue as to where it is fair or just is a completely different argument.

Read the Telegraph article above, they specifically mention overpayments for frozen pensions.

Border Force passport control, of course they know that you have left the UK and for how long. DWP know your pension payments history it is very easy to tie that to a Border Force file and identify suspicious payments and do a run to produce a file of potential suspects. You then get a letter to your UK address saying you have been potentially identified as receiving overpayments. You have 28 days to explain your situation and sign a statement under threat of prosecution. If they don't accept your reasons, or you don't reply, then they automatically stop the uplift as a minimum. If they are feeling vindictive they can do historical analysis and demand overpayment back possibly by withholding future payments. I used to do batch processing data runs on big computer systems - this is a relatively easy small project to execute with a very high return on investment. To poo poo this is either naivety or wishful thinking.

It's true they are coming for you if you have committed fraud. It was an obvious fix now they have the tech and data to police it. No minster is going to tun their nose up at an easy £100 million pound saving for peanuts in tech investment. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/banking/millions-pensioners-face-bank-account-inspections-fraud/ While no overpayments of the state pension have been linked to fraud, £100m was overpaid in the state pension partly due to people claiming who live abroad and are not entitled to payment increases under the pensions triple lock. Only those who live in the European Economic Area, Gibraltar, Switzerland and countries with a social security agreement with Britain can receive pension increases. A DWP spokesman said: “This is not a surveillance power, and it does not allow DWP to access bank accounts or see how claimants or pensioners are spending their money. “Despite State Pension overpayments due to fraud currently sitting at 0.0 per cent, it is important to ensure that if fraud and error does arise in the future we have the tools to address it.”

As if I care please ban me mods so I'm not tempted to slink back and waste my time.

Then off to Redditt I go and leave you to it.