KennetMan

rufanuf

You have met met, i don't lie about stuff like this. I would never put someone down if i did not have reasons. As i run no fishing company myself or sell tours i have no stake in putting this lake down.

If i ask for a bucket of lam and i get charged for a bag with the excuse that they had to "order" if for me then i feel cheated. In the end i could sell it back (only used 1 bucket from the bag) for half the price they sold it to me. That is a RIP OFF. Fisheries are able to stock lam its not like they have to special order it and its a non perishable.

I would never have started something negative about it if i did not have that feeling. Also the stunt with the fishes (small to start and later big and drawing straws) made me feel that way. I don't mind paying extra but the feeling of being fleeced just makes me angry. Its one of the few things that makes my blood boiling.

Sure they might have just started it but does that excuse bad behavior ?

The owner (think the guy who posted here) never went into the complaints that shows me how much he respects his customers. I will try to do my best to make stuff like this known so people know what kind of a place it is.

Your experiences might be better because if they rip you off they rip a repeat customer off.

I can accept not catching much as its what happens with angling at times. I cant accept being treated as someone you can rip off.

About weighing... if you use a proper sling there is not much stress for the fish. I have brought 2 slings back from Holland and they do a great job (after being a bit re enforced) at weighing carp and Mekong. All the times the Thai seem to be way off estimating fish, almost everyone including myself thinks fishes are heavier then they really are.

Prices of venue's you might know that better as me, i still think they are much to high and have seen Thai places that do it cheaper. (also airipaima and redtail). Your clearly out there to protect your business and we are the customers who don't want to spend our money that easy. So let say the truth is in the middle.

As for the size of the lake, i find it small. Others might say there are plenty of big fish there (and i believe that). But i like bigger lakes a bit more, its just the feeling.

Because of these experiences i will give this lake a miss when i take my dad and some others to some of the more expensive lakes. I also post at Dutch fishing websites at times and help people find their way in the Thai fishing scene. This lake wont get my support (not that its known there or that i mention it there).

They probably wont loose a nights sleep over it and neither do i, but I'm like a pitbull with the memory of an elephant when i feel wronged.

All these sorts of problems start with misunderstandings. Believe me I am not trying to protect anyone really, i get tired of the misunderstandings too. If I could run my business without having to try and figure out the actions and decisions of venue owners at times I most certainly would (yes they drive me nuts too!), its one of the biggest headaches I have to deal with on behalf of customers, but to solve that problem would involve me spending some 20 million baht or so to get a fishery of my own functioning to western standards with western standards of management.

I read somewhere that the lum was ordered in advance for you by zoso? If that's so how can you expect the fishery owner to then reimburse you for it? I regularly have a half bag or even a full bag of lum left after a session at Bungsamran, I certainly don't expect them to give me a refund for whats left, and I know what their answer would be if I asked. Turning the situation on its head for a moment...IF (and only if) lets say for example Palm Tree DO NOT stock large amounts of lum as a matter of course (perhaps they dont have the customers carp fishing to use it quickly enough before it gets weavel?), you could argue that it was actually a credit to their level of service that they was prepared to go and get 4 bags for you prior to your arrival without payment up front? Just a different way of looking at it Robblok. The issue with a lack of livebaits? Similarly, I know for fact theres misunderstandings there because the best bait for Arapaima is and always has been chicken at Palm Tree LOL. Big livebaits work well for Chao Praya Catfish.

Just to illustrate the point further, I used to have a lot of misunderstandings with lake Monsters(actually still do). It was AND STILL IS NOT clear what is included in their high ticket prices, its also not clear what the rules of the venue actually are because it seems to be a different rule for everyone! To a lesser degree this is true even on Bungsamran.

Because I am aware of this I have learnt how to smooth over those misunderstandings between visiting anglers and the venue. At times it is not easy, and I am left only with a simple observation to pass onto visiting anglers "This is Thailand" or "TIT", to explain Thai logic (or lack of it) but at least they have a frame of reference to take away with them, that does not leave them with a bad taste in their mouth,(I get the bad taste instead and go home to my wife swearing and cursing about the inconsistencies of Thai fishing venue owners, and often those inconsistencies end up costing me money, a days wages) which is what I would have wished for you also, because Palm Tree has some great fish to be caught, if you can get past your dissatisfaction.

The fact of the matter is as you rightly say there are loads of places to fish, prices are all over the place, and in time they will only come down thankfully as Thai venue owners start to understand how to grow their fish quickly to decent sizes inexpensively, its happening everywhere. Just a few years ago a 50kg Arapaima would of cost 30,000BHT or so, now you can get them from 12,000 to 17,000BHT....even so they are so fragile that a 500BHT a day fishery will soon not have any Arapaima in it, becuase the owner would not be able to afford to replace lost fish at those ticket prices (why do you think Bungsamran charge 20,000BHT for one fish?) so take advantage of those low cost tickets, the fish wont be there long. Redtails yes, Arapaima no. Again really its just an indication of the lack of understanding the managers have of their fisheries, and the fish they stock, and why western anglers are prepared to pay to catch them. Mekongs are great as they are as tough as old boots. Carp...yes you can wiegh them, but if you catch a really big old fish (40kg up) and weigh her after a long fight you might be very stressed out yourself to see how much difficulty they sometimes have recovering from that, and be able to swim away from you strongly when released. I know I am. Is it worth the risk for a fish that took maybe 40 years to attain that weight?

I accept in advance I will probably be chastised as a newbie making by fist post but 'cest la vie'

I have been coming to Thailand fishing regularly for over ten years mainly with Francois of Angling Thailand.

I fished Palm Tree Lagoon last month for a few days. I must say Benny and her team went out of their way to try and catch be my target species, and were great fun to be around even if I didn't understand half of what they were saying.

I particularly wanted to catch a 50kg+ chao phraya, 50kg+ siamese carp, 100kg+ arapaima and a juliens golden price carp of any size, all of which have eluded me over the years.

Under Benny's guidance I managed to achieve all of my goals breaking a number of my previous PB's in the process, and catching 6 new species for me.

I have already booked up for another trip later on in the year, and can't wait.

I have to agree with rafanuf on two accounts. Firstly I can not imagine Benny intentionally ripping anyone off so I think it must have been a misunderstanding which in my experience in Thailand over the years is commonplace,

due to both language and cultural differences.

Secondly, I am also now convinced the chicken seems to be the best bait for arapaima. The first couple of days I concentrated on using livebait because I believed it would be the best bait despite 'Benny', 'Hong', 'Bay' and 'Bung'

telling me chicken was the way to go. The livebait did catch me a lot of gar including an 8kg black gar, but not much else.

On the predator species front:

My chao phraya came out as already mentioned in this thread and much to my amazement on a piece of banana.

The chicken accounted for five huge pacu all over 10kg, several featherback to 5 kg, a 22kg alligator gar, and on the last day a huge arapaima which 'Hong' informed me was the second biggest in the lake and that when it was last weighed was 180kg. Four of us struggled to lift it for the photo...

On the carp front I had 9 siamese carp to 55kg and lost a bigger one at the net, many catla carp to 21kg, a 5kg black carp, and at last a juliens golden price carp.