rayongchelsea

I think anyone who lives here for any significant amount of time, wherever, will get the blues, to the d..ckheads that say Pattaya is not Thailand, yes it is, just a different shade..

I don't mean to be rude or critical but here it is.

I was originally born and lived for my first 18 years in the U.S.

I worked for nearly 45 years in almost a dozen various countries around the world. None were perfect but I enjoyed them all by learning to adjust to where I was and I learned to live with myself.

Here is the truth, if you can not live with yourself wherever you happen to be in the world you will not be happy anywhere.

Thinking there is place that will make you happy if you can't live with yourself is an illusion.

If you can't learn to be your own person and not depend on where you are to be happy you are not going to be happy.

It took me over 60 years of life to learn that..... I'm retired and pushing 69 years later this year.

Just try to remember, every day you wake up and see the sun is still shining, is a good day.

Excellent post.

Sure, Thai students don't do as well as their neighbors in scoring exams .. so what? How much do words on a piece of paper really mean? I'm sure they'd fail a Western-baised IQ test too. A stupid Thai has a much greater chance of serviving in Thai society than a well-educated farang. They were raised in Thailand, they know more than you ever will. All the subtilties of spoken and body gestures they've ingested over a life time trump all of our colored perceptions.

If anyone has hopes a culture with convert over to something more of your liking has a long wait. Like generations.

Oh brother; I only hope English is your 2nd language.

You have some serious spelling and grammatical limitations.

Firstly, we are not talking specifically about exams.

It's the new world mate; globalisation and competitiveness.

Get with the program bud.

I suggest you read and digest the entire thread before making further comments.

Agree. These foreigners who don't want the Thais to progress, especially if they have families are the worse sort.

The Thai may not be so "stupid" if they had access to better more equal opportunity education system.

Change isn't necessary western..Thailand has changed massively over the last 25 years..partly because there are too many foreigners here..so you part of the change. They did well without you here..

If you don't think English is important you are mistaken, but then again I doubt you have ever worked here....

You infer that you work in Thailand, but, consider that there are too many foreigners here.

That loud whooshing noise you hear, is a shed-full of irony whizzing over your head........

Stopped working in Thailand a decade ago, having worked here for years prior..but I like the reply..

Turning Thailand into the West is the only thing that will ruin Thailand. They've done fine without the West for a few thousand years.

And, what would you call failure? What do you call smart? What is the standard for success? Look how many products are imported from Thailand. Back in the States, I didn't see many things with made in England on them, or Australia, or even "Made in USA."

And, as far as speaking English? Why? People want diversity so they can go to McDonalds' in Russia? English is a very clumsy language. (Not that many others are better.) Let's not put your own laziness for not learning a foreign language as a noose around anothers' neck.

Another comment..that's it suits me fine , why change it. Patronizing..

Change isn't necessary western..Thailand has changed massively over the last 25 years..partly because there are too many foreigners here..so you part of the change. They did well without you here..

If you don't think English is important you are mistaken, but then again I doubt you have ever worked here....

" As of 2012, the Thailand automotive industry was the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World. The Thailand industry has an annual output of near 1.5 million vehicles (mostly commercial vehicles), more than countries such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, Czech Republic, and Turkey"

There is no Thai automotive industry.

There are no Thai cars.. ( except maybe tuk tuks?)

Automotive industries from developed countries are taking advantage of Thailand's cheap uneducated labor to assemble their products for a fraction of the cost of assempl in their home countries.

Most motorcycles are produced here for the same reason..

.exploiting the cheap uneducated labor available here in Thailand.

I read recently that many Thais believe that FORD is a Thai car company! ( they are assembled here, right?)

Does Singapore have an auto industry? Hong Kong? How about most Euro countries, do they all have internationally recognized autos? Is there an Aussie brand auto? You're nit-picking. Would you rather Thailand not manufacture cars at all?

It's not just about cheap labor, otherwise manufacturers would be building cars in Somalia. Thailand has the infrastructure and workforce to support major manufacturing. But I'm sure anything positive about Thailand offends you.

Your argument is a good one, but because you always so one sided when discussing anything they loose credibility..why add the last sentence..

People must see your name and just switch off, the same with that other guy " something 69", you need to be more balanced..

There is a great manufacturing base here in Thailand, although primarily low skilled.

There are many positives about Thailand, but this topic ain't one of them.

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

Okay, so let me understand this... You think it is good for Thailand and Thai-people that their education system way is behind most other countries? Do you think it is good that a large part of the population can not read and write? Is it good parenting to just accept a bad educational system, that gives your child no real options in life?

Yes, Thailand has a nearly full employment rate. And what does most of the jobs really consist of? Sitting on a chair sleeping or playing Candy Crush all day. Do you really think education is something unimportant in todays world? You sound like you believe education is something only White-persons value... Are you serious?

And by the way... Not all Thai people are happy. I know many Thai-people who are sad and frustrated, that they are forced to work shitty jobs for the rest of their life, because they never had access to a good educational system. Just because they smile when you pay them, does not mean they are happy.

You wrote, "Yes, Thailand has a nearly full employment rate. And what does most of the jobs really consist of? Sitting on a chair sleeping or playing Candy Crush all day."

Based on that statement I have arrived at two conclusions. 1. You don't know much about Thailand and 2. Your purpose in this thread was to denigrate Thailand and really has nothing to do with education.

​I think I can show indubitably that you know almost nothing about the Thai economy. 1. 40% of the hard drives in the world are made in Thailand. 2. As of 2012, the Thailand automotive industry was the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World. The Thailand industry has an annual output of near 1.5 million vehicles (mostly commercial vehicles), more than countries such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, Czech Republic, and Turkey.

Those millions of cars and hard drives can not be made while sleeping or playing candy crush.

Lets take a look at a country close by, Malaysia. Tourists' naked photo shoot atop Malaysian peak blamed for major earthquake as locals claim nudity angered 'mountain spirits. Now that is dead dumb.

Try googling the ten most worthless currencies in the world and what countries come up? Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia and Vietnam. 19,327 Dong to the Dollar.

I can tell you without a doubt that the Thai education system is better than Detroit or DC (I was in a D mood).

I think there should be a rule that before you are allowed to comment on the Thai education system that you should know something about it; like teaching in a Thai college for a few years.

And before you comment on Thailand's economy that you should realize that there are about 100 countries in the world that have a GDP per capita less than Thailand. That means that more than half the countries in the world play candy crush and sleep on the job more than Thailand,

Just to make some things clear... I am NOT trying to say something bad about Thailand or Thai-people. If I hated Thailand, I would not live here and I would properly never had married a Thai-woman and have had a child with her. Furthermore, I would for sure never had been coming to Thailand for more than 20 years, if I hated the place or the people.

The fact is, that the Thai-educational system is very bad and since education a very important part of a countries development, then that is not good for Thailand. So the reason why I am worried about the educational system here, is actually because I worry and feel sorry for Thailand, because it will effect many people here. In other words I worry, because I like Thailand.

Why is it that so many Farangs here in Thailand start thinking like Thais after a while living here? All of a sudden it is not allowed to face the simple facts or criticises anything that is related to Thailand or Thai-people. If some Farang says something "wrong" or "bad", then the typical response is "Then why don't you just leave, if you do not like it here?"... I will never understand why some people can not see, that the only way for something to improve, like e.g. the educational system here, is to FACE THE FACTS and not just try to find excuses. Because that is exactly the Thai way of reacting and it just does not solve problems or provide progress for neither the country or the people.

Yes, there are worse countries than Thailand in the world, but if Thailand does not face reality then at some point in the future, there will not be many countries worse than Thailand. And that is exactly my point. Thailand is moving backwards while other surrounding countries are moving forward. Hiding from the facts (Thai-Style), does not solve the problems or make them go away.

If you really cared and knew something about Thailand, then you would worry too. Especially, if you had children here.

Oh... and by the way... I actually have a teachers degree, have been guest teacher at many universities here and my wife also has a teenage son in the Thai-school system. I think I know just a bit about the educational system here or at least the level of it.

Foreigners who have a vested interest here, family children etc..and recognize that the education system is poor have every right and duty to criticize, it is not Thai bashing..it is a country they care about

Those foreigners who just ignore the facts and plonk there kids in school because they like it here are the ones who should be ashamed. They know the system is poor, that maybe being in their own country would be better for their children but just ignore the fact because it rocks their boat..I met a foreigner who had his child in the local private school but was fully engaged with part home schooling knowing that the school has limitations..he is to be admired..

Also the whole setup just benefits the richer Thais etc...

Overall couldn't agree more.

^^^ not on their fishing vessels, not in their chemical factories employing Cambodians etc..when did anything that was legislated for in Thailand mean it would be enforced. Slavery is in practice the world over..

The political structure and history has a lot do with the progress of Vietnam and Burma up to the present day.

Silly to say if you like Thailand not to change it. I would like the the education system for my future grandchildren etc...even though my child went to international school.

Thailand has changed enormously just since the Asian crisis..no country is static..you simply have no idea.

You wrote, "Yes, Thailand has a nearly full employment rate. And what does most of the jobs really consist of? Sitting on a chair sleeping or playing Candy Crush all day."

Based on that statement I have arrived at two conclusions. 1. You don't know much about Thailand and 2. Your purpose in this thread was to denigrate Thailand and really has nothing to do with education.

​I think I can show indubitably that you know almost nothing about the Thai economy. 1. 40% of the hard drives in the world are made in Thailand. 2. As of 2012, the Thailand automotive industry was the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World. The Thailand industry has an annual output of near 1.5 million vehicles (mostly commercial vehicles), more than countries such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, Czech Republic, and Turkey.

Those millions of cars and hard drives can not be made while sleeping or playing candy crush.

Lets take a look at a country close by, Malaysia. Tourists' naked photo shoot atop Malaysian peak blamed for major earthquake as locals claim nudity angered 'mountain spirits. Now that is dead dumb.

Try googling the ten most worthless currencies in the world and what countries come up? Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia and Vietnam. 19,327 Dong to the Dollar.

I can tell you without a doubt that the Thai education system is better than Detroit or DC (I was in a D mood).

I think there should be a rule that before you are allowed to comment on the Thai education system that you should know something about it; like teaching in a Thai college for a few years.

And before you comment on Thailand's economy that you should realize that there are about 100 countries in the world that have a GDP per capita less than Thailand. That means that more than half the countries in the world play candy crush and sleep on the job more than Thailand,

Did Thailand design the Ferrari?

Did Thailand design the Ducati?

Did Thailand design any of the crap being produced in the automotive or computer sector ?etc,,,,,,,,,

Simple answers NO!

If most of said factorys where to pack up and move to greener paistures i wonder what the Thai economy would look like?The only reason they are there is because of cheap labour.

You don't have a clue how the world works in the age of the global economy. There are a 100 countries with lower costs of labor than Thailand. There are many reasons for auto and computer hard drive manufacture in Thailand. According to MIT the cost of labor in new car production is only 6.5% anyway. Raw materiel is 47%. Truth is Thailand has the 94th largest GDP per capita out of 180 countries in the world. There are about 30,000 parts in a car and they all have to be designed. Who does it? More than a 100 different countries.

Yes all this is very true..but the education system here is terrible, when I realized this I took my daughter out immediately.

Thailand has a stronger economic base than many realize, I would have thought the flooding a couple of years ago and the effect it had on supply chains globally would have taught the casual observe that.

But if there is one irrefutable truth, the Thai education system does not do justice to its children who have no wealth, no advantage, live outside Bangkok etc..

The leaders / politicians etc/ rich families didn't prevail themselves of the temple school, local catholic school etc..no they prevail themselves of the very good schools in Bangkok, international schools or educate their children overseas..

Well I just read the article. Not a very good article to get his point over. All he could refer to was the result of past education or lack of. Beginning back when Yingluck was in the Education minister knocked the system Yingluck then appointed another one who also said the system had to change.

The current administration is working on it. It like so many other problems with the government is so deep in corruption that it will take time to root it out but progress is slowly being made. I recently purchased a computer for my 10 and 15 year old granddaughters to use in school. This is some thing that never would have been needed 5 years ago.

Yes the school system compared to other countries may be lacking in it's growth. But remember some of them have a long way to go to even catch up to Thailand's. I also noticed that he was beating that old can't speak English drum. It does not take a large percentage of the population to speak English. It is not needed to plant rice the backbone of the country. It is needed in International business and the air flight industry also tourism but that is not a big percentage of the population involved in it.

If you want your children to advance themselves as most parents do..I think English is almost a pre- requisite today. Just a fact, not beating the English drum..

Although it is 5 years it still would be cancelled if you did not get a re- entry visa..

^^^ even if you speak Thai I would suggest you speak in English, some explanations can be complex and need explaining..most foreigners who speak Thai just aren't that fluent. Same goes for business meetings.

Yep. Pattaya is very much "Us and Them"

Thai Culture and Western Cultures are so far apart. And will drift further apart with time.

There is one thing in common - desperate people from all over Thailand meet desperate people from the rest of the world. Pattaya is the city of deseration. Old men fooling themselves that young sexy farmgirls enjoy being with them.

The problem is that the foreigners have absolutely no interest in integrating into Thai society and the Thais hate them. Not only have they hit the bottom of the road but they must pretend that they actually like foreigners.

The only way to get rid of this "us and them" is to integrate - learn the language for starters and stand up for ourselves when discriminated against.

Nothing to do with the thousands that go to pattaya. I find them more authentic in what they are doing than some who try to integrate, act "thaier than Thais.

There has always been a " barrier" the perception of the foreigner has always been there, just exacerbated and probably re- enforced by the fact that there are a lot more foreigners here now, some of dubious qualities.

I agree on the language and the self assertion, both of which I possess..I am less integrated now than I was 25 years ago..and I am very comfortable with that. I like Thailand, Thai wife, children etc..but I am a foreigner, just one who tries to be cultural sensitive and respectful..I will always be one of "us" as the Thais really will never see us as one of them..the exercise is therefore futile..just don't get frustrated by things..and having a lot of money helps...some just try to make a big deal of it and go as far to say they hate us..or don't like the word farang..the list is endless..which only re- enforces the divide..

The system only really benefits the well off and those with advantage. Education will not be the downfall of them only those who are neither.

Who do you all think you are? You move to a country and expect them to change everything because you said so?? The arrogance of Westerners(in general) is baffling! The Thai educational system is preparing Thai children to survive in Thai society. The majority of Thai kids will be unaffected by Thailand's entry into ASEAN. There will never be any freedom of movement between these countries other than for tourism.The movement of labour will be highly restricted, as it should be. Thailand has almost full employment and little or no welfare state. The education system here is not trying to prepare students to be statesmen or women.Its giving them the tools to be successful...in Thailand! And it des exactly what it sayd on the tin...

Westerners need to realise that this is not Europe of the US. Things are different here.That doesn't mean that things are bad. Look at how happy Thai people are. Compare that to people from Nanny states in Europe who are miserable and do nothing but complain and pay their taxes and bills. Look at the respect that Thai people have for elders.Look at how they take care of their families.. Look at the positives instead of attempting to impose Western ideas and values upon the world. The most evil race of people to ever walk the Earth were White people! Realise this and open your narrow minded perceptions of Asian civilisation.

What nonsense. This is a ridiculous post. Have you got any children ?

Have you been exposed to the Thai system? Have you sat in classes where your child is being taught? No of course not.

Plus you seem to have no idea about the freedom of movement in asean.

I have lived and worked here most of my life, I don't expect them to change for me, but you expect progress over 30 years!!

What's all this white bullshit, what about luk kyung..where do they fit in?

Have you worked in a Thai company, not a great experience where meritocracy hardly exists.

You are clearly old, yes respect for elders is here, on the wane, and you should have respect for a multitude of things not simply because you are old..some old people are the biggest a..holes on earth ..yet should get automatic respect..

i dont consider thailand 3rd world,

It's institutions are. The police, the courts, the education system, health ( non private), contract law, the way company employees are treated.

It maybe classed as developing in other areas.

These discussions almost always seem to divert to a discussion where the poster moved to Thailand primarily, if not purely, for economic reasons. While economics are a fact of life for virtually all of us, and the world is certainly not my oyster, my wife and I do enjoy our time in Thailand, and I must admit that I would find it a bit depressing if that was the predominate driver for living in Thailand vs. where we would really prefer to live.

As we seeking a wife...it can only end in failure or disillusion.

You should come here because you actually like the place.

"You can't legally own land in Thailand, but ..."

A foreigner "can" legally own land here...........but you need to find out for yourself "HOW"

A hint.........do you honestly think the Hiltons take risks?

No -- Hilton manages the property and lets someone else own it.

I used Hilton as an example

There "Is" a way........but you will have to find it for yourself

Don't bother challenging me on it .........take a Course in Thai Law

I will now "Sign out" for a few months.......as I did the last time this subject "reared its head"

Well, why don't you just tell people instead of being a pompous <deleted>

The real way is not for the average buyer of property.

I think it's foolish to come here and expect to buy a home and a car and carry on just like back in the old country. By doing so you expose yourself to risks that are peculiar to Thailand, including the corrupt police. More realistic to rent a place to live and install Uber on your phone. If ownership is important to you, Thailand is not the right country.

Some of us have families and children and a good lawyer.

You over estimate the risk.

Condo in my name. House in child's name. Car in my name..bought at 45 to the dollar..

It is the right country if you know the rules etc..

I was here 15 years before I bought...I have met people who fall in love in 15mins and are talking of buying...

The real risk in ownership is buying too soon, in a country you don't know, in a village, listen to the bs some of these gf/ wives come out with do Not have lawyer ( who you can trust), and finally ignore advice.

A lot of bs is written on this forum but some tell their experiences and offer advice which seem sometimes to irritate those looking to justify buying, not buying, my girlfriend is different etc..

I simply do not accept that it is wrong to buy given certain circumstances.

Thais cheat Thais as well. Foreigners just make it easier..my conclusion on this is that they come here ignore past experiences of other foreigners and think they know better.

Btw, my experience of the Thai laws and courts is that it's not prejudiced against foreigners but against Thais also who do not have connections , wealth etc..or a good lawyer.

Rich Thais think they are special.

"I started this as I expected the family would pay for everything to prove their position.

Thanks for your help."

No, by Thai custom the groom is suppose to pay for everything. Having a large Sinsod isn't uncommon also, but unless they are greedy or poor, they wouldn't keep it.

Many younger couples with affluent families combine money on the table to show off. 2 million baht isn't a lot for a wedding, I've been to some middle class weddings where the couples only earned about 20kbaht a month each and they had 1.5 million on the table.

I think that you are confusing things. They don't have to prove their position, you do. Your son is the unknown.

Which school did she attend, which university ? Overseas? Where do they live, what is the family business ?

Toni Morrison the Nobel prize winner wrote an essay on how " color, and how people see it "was very much discriminatory within the black community at her university..the lighter the more superior....the conclusion was that everybody wasn't to differentiate themselves one way or another, color just being one method...it's just innate..