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Posts posted by andid
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Mr PM (or anyone here),
What is it about the AEC next year that means Thais will need better English?
Mr Macanello (and anyone else here),
What change in the AEC will means that Thais get a shock? In what way will this happen and what specific rule or change will create the shock?
FYI - I have heard that the PM speaks English very well - but as a cautious individual, he does not want to make a mistake in public so chooses to use translators. Many of us do the same in business meetings where Thai is spoken I guess.
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Ummm - this doesnt make sense. It could be the reporter (again - since there are many examples of mis-information about the AEC)...
"The Thai Chamber of Commerce (TCC) says that 12 Thai industries need to further improve before ASEAN fellow members snatch away their customers. ...
..the most serious problem being a shortage of skilled workers in these fields...
..Other problems include high production costs and dependency on imported raw materials, he said...
For example, automobile production industry in which Thailand ranks first among the 10 members of ASEAN, said Mr Chatchai. Manufacturers in the kingdom must maintain quality while the producers must simultaneously set up production in other ASEAN member countries."
First, the aim of the AEC in terms of Goods, is that they can be shipped with low (or 0) duties within ASEAN so long as they are manufactured in one of the ASEAN countries.....why would Thai manufacturers need to simultaneously set up production in other ASEAN member countries"? The whole logic is that they don't need to do this now. Each country can make what they make best and for the lowest prices, and all (ASEAN) consumers will benefit by access to better quality goods at lower prices.Second, there is no logic presented about why Thai industry needs to improve in the industries mentioned. There is a reference to not enough skilled workers, but all this means is that the structure of the Thai economy (including immigration and labour policies) does not match the demographics. The only thing Thai companies can do about this would be to invest in technology (IT and Automation) to replace the need for the skilled labour. They can do this today if they wish. If they do not do this, then they choose not to be competitive with others in other parts of ASEAN, and this means that the consumer in Thailand is paying more or getting lower quality than they should be. This is surely the same issue in other ASEAN countries, and has existed as a problem for a number of years, and is not being caused by the AEC Implementation. The other solution is easy, but it is a government issue, not that of Industry - allow additional foreign workers entry to Thailand now.
Thirdly, "snatching away their customers" is a clear scare campaign aimed at making many Thai business operators fear competition. There is nothing in this article that says that other ASEAN companies in the listed industries are actually better than Thailand and will immediately cause consumers to switch their allegiances en masse. How do I know this? The actual "Free Movement of Goods" part of the AEC to which this article refers has already been implemented in most of the 10 countries. Goods made in other ASEAN countries already benefit from the lower import duties....and there is no evidence that Thai manufacturers are losing out in these industries (and certainly none presented in the article). There also remain a number of Non-Tariff Barriers in relation to some of the industries listed, and there are no short term plans for these NTB's to be dropped. This is part of the unresolved and ongoing AEC discussions between the governments.
The headline and article is yet another attempt to scare the average Thai citizen into thinking that overall the AEC implementation will be bad for Thailand, when actually the opposite should be the case. Protectionist economies get short term gains, but rarely prove to be the best in the long run. Open economies drive higher wages and lower costs for goods and services over time (in relation to living costs and wages), and the AEC will benefit Thailand more than it will damage it.
I really wish reporters would do their homework on this issue.
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So - how to make sure this doesn't happen again?? We all know it will happen again - so what should we do about it?
Nothing??
Or ...... maybe we can put together some ideas on how to stop this sort of action ......
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How is this act going to square with membership of the AEC ?
It shouldn't change it. Thai companies still need to be Thai majority owned, BUT foreign (ASEAN) companies will be able to operate in Thailand (possibly just particular sectors though).
Wrong, at 2015 when ASEAN will be in full power, it will start with 70% ownership.
Kamala Rider, and Chao Lao Beach,
The AEC deal actually states that each of the ASEAN countries will allow up to 70% (they can go higher as is the case in SG already for example) ownership by ASEAN citizens and ASEAN companies for SERVICES companies.
The scheduled date for this to commence was in 2008, with a progressive roll out to various service type companies between then and 2015. There was supposed to be a 51% step and then 70% step.
Kamala Rider - Currently the Thai government has not yet implemented any changes to the FBA and therefore we think that Thailand will therefore not be ready to allow the 70% ownership option by then (despite them signing an agreement to do this back in 2007). Actually Jan 1st 2015 was when all changes were planned to be completed, so many things should have been in "full force" well before today. Unfortunately many things have not been completed, and a number of countries have now said they will complete things by Dec 31st 2015 .... but we fear this may mean "sort of completed, or getting started - trust us".
Chao Lao Beach - there is another problem, which is that there is currently no agreed way for an ASEAN Citizen or Company to fill out a form or make an application to establish or purchase such a company which has a box that says "I want to claim my right as an ASEAN" (or anything similar). The government workers who need to administer these things just have not been told what to do yet.
The AEC does not provide any opportunity for anyone other than ASEAN Citizens or ASEAN registered companies.
Some others here have been saying that nominee structures work or preference shares etc.
The FBA has a clear intent - Foreigners (of all types currently) are not permitted to own or control Thai companies unless they either have BOI approval or fall into some exemption category (eg Treaty of Amity for US citizens, and TAFTA for Aussies - although this is not actually the case as others have pointed out). Whenever a case has gone in front of a judge in Thailand, all preference shares deals or pre-signed sale of share certificates or other similar "controls" have been presented to a judge - they have been thrown out as they do not comply with the intent of the law. This is what is known as Foreign Dominance and there are many in the Thai government and business who would love to open this can of worms. So far the JFCCT has been able to keep it closed.
I am not saying this is right or wrong - just the facts about the AEC and about company ownership here.
Again - please ask your chamber of commerce these questions and if you want a change, please ask them to lobby on your behalf, with the best approach being to channel this through the various JFCCT committees. If you are not a member of a chamber, I recommend you to join, but make sure you join one that is part of the JFCCT (some are not currently). There are many volunteer business operators working on your behalf here trying to get some changes implemented to allow our investments, relationships and contribution to Thailand recognised. Every time someone tries to set something up that gets around the rules, it is easy for the Thai authorities to use this as ammunition against foreign investors and makes it harder for everyone in the long term.
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In answer to some earlier questions..
There is no special allowance in TAFTA for 100% ownership of Thai companies by Aussies other than that this can be done now under the Ministry of Commerce system. The MOC system is difficult and despite claims that they approve 90%+, the truth is most applications drop out in the early stages.
Treaty of Amity still operates (based currently on an extension to the TOA arrangement which expired a few years back.
Under the AEC deals which are due to "start" on Dec 31st 2015, but if you read the agreements they actually should have started in 2008... there are two types of changes of interest here:
1. Services companies can be owned up to 70% by ASEAN citizens - their are so far 8 lists of these types of companies for Thailand, with list 9 and list 10 coming soon.
2. ASEAN citizens can invest 100% in Manufacturing (already the case if you go through BOI, so we are not sure what this change means), Fisheries, Agriculture and Mining.
The problem with the last 3 is that they are currently protected under the Foreign Business Act - this law requires a change before this change can be implemented - we currently have no functioning government that can make this change ..........some of us are discussing these changes with the Thai government to see what can be done....
FYI - Many chambers of Commerce should have all of this information. People interested in doing business here should address questions like these to their chamber. If you are not a member of a chamber I recommend joining. Note - there are some chambers that dont have this information because they dont want to be part of the JFCCT (which is where this information is obtained) ... join the others .......
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Robby,
I understand your point.
My point was that the permanent secretaries and permanent civil servants can't focus on specific areas unless their boss (Minister or MP) tell them to. The Ministry of Commerce manages the AEC but needs the agreement of other ministries to get the work done. The MOC cant set the rules for how the procedures for labour will operate. This needs the agreement of the other MP's to tell their ministries to focus on x instead of y. Even within the MOC, they deal with all FTA's, the Rice Pledge system and so on. They need the Minister of Commerce to allow them to focus on AEC, and at the same time the Minster for Labour also needs to agree to tell the Labour people to focus on AEC. And both of them need to be able to get into their offices - which for a few weeks there, they were unable to do.
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Why hasn't this all been already done ?
How long have the PT Govt known about the AEC and the 2015 date ?
Surly it should have been a priority as it is something, as the gent says, that will have a big impact on the country.
All the ministries are still in place and the same, there are supposed to be caretaker ministers, so why cant the individual ministries go ahead and prepare the detailed plans to be forward to a parliament once one is in place ?
In reality what would MP's add to the process except rubber stamping the plans and law changes put forward by those in the ministries who have the real knowledge of what is needed.
MP's are after all, with a few exceptions, a bunch of know nothings elected on promises and big talk.
Various parties have had other interests or objections, or false fears have been raised (such as invasion of drugs, criminals or just too many foreign workers and Thais will lose their jobs.
Thailand signed the various agreements in 2007 (so its not only PT) and some parts were signed before then.
Agreed.
Most ministries dont yet understand the policy level details and concepts so this is not so easy yet.
Many changes involve cross ministry details. Example the skilled labour changes would allow an ASEAN Engineer to work here in Thailand, but this needs a change to the labour law, a change to immigration (visa) procedures, and even possibly building codes (to allow the ASEAN engineer to sign documents). Services changes also need cross ministry changes. Harmonisation of definitions have cross ministry impacts also.
MP's are needed because of the law changes required, and these mean policy decisions need to be made, which the ministry level people can't or wont do. For example in Services there is a concept that any ASEAN registered company can enter Thailand, but there is a fear that a non-ASEAN owned, but reigistered in ASEAN company tries to come in. Some test needs to be applied to stop this happening. This is called the "Substantive Business Operation" test. What will Thailand use as the test and how will it work on an application form, or in day to day Thai form filling, and how would the Thai ministries verify the test from BKK?
There is still a lot to be done, and it needs significant focus.......
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Tara,
I have asked on Facebook and also via a message to Megan.....can someone provide us with the name of Nathans wife and where in Thailand she is from? This would narrow down any search. It would also make people who may know the area or someone in the lady's family pay attention. Social media may be more useful then also.....
Is his wife also missing? The newspaper in Australia did not mention this at all (just that he is married to a Thai).
Was there any fight within the family back in Australia that may have lead Nathan to make no contact for any reason for this period of time? (Most likely not, but if someone was to find him and this was the case, it may make a difference to how they approached him/discussed with him).
The Australian Chamber of Commerce has issued a note to their members, as have Australians in Thailand, and also now here on Thai Visa - if he is not deliberately in hiding then I would think there is a fair chance one of the connections here can locate him - just may be useful to have some more information...
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It may help if some of the commentors and readers here also educated themselves about what the AEC is and is not ..... its not only the Thais who don't understand.
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Dear Lomatopo,
For a Titanic member thats a bit harsh ........
A week ago I left for international trip ... used the check in and bag drop at Makassan - then didnt need to drag my bag all the way through the train systems.
Just today I returned .... came home on the train, and then walked over the bridge that was highlighted earlier, across Asoke, down into the MRT, then back up the other side at Asoke/Petchaburi intersection ........
Clueless indeed was I ...... Infernalman7 .... not clueless at all ......... perhaps you should ............nah ... not worth it....
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No no no folks .... what does the AEC change about transport that Thailand is 70% (egro 30% not) ready for?
There is nothing that says there will be more trucks at some future date crossing the border than there are today.....
Can someone please ask all the news reporters to actually understand what the AEC means .... so they can ask a meaningful question to these government guys that make these announcements.
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Ummmmm..............70% of what?
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While I agree with the general sentiment that having people with more language skills is better for communicating and creating harmony ..... can the Nation reporter (or someone online here) please tell me what the evidence is for these claims (as this is the basis for writing an article scaring people into taking an action):
"when more investments flow into the region, for instance an opportunity to be employed in a good position in a company in Asean", and "if they wait until the AEC comes into effect and they are affected by changes, it will be too late for them", and "This is a crisis as more people are expected to cross the border for jobs and businesses".........
No really ... can someone explain it ....
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Agree with the posters re what the article is about - if he qualifies he is qualified - this is not a discussion about if he should get paid or not.
I have discussed this issue with Aussie government people, arguing that the actual costs that the government must pay under the Australian system (and being drawn from the over taxed tax payers money). I would be happy to have my mother over here for more time each year, and she would be happy to spend time here with me. She is not free to choose where she spends her time now because she has been told that part or all of her pension will be cut, which also means her access to health care and lower cost travel in Australia will be lost, if she spends too long outside of Australia.
She paid tax for many many years before retiring to care for my stepfather before he passed away.
Now, the next challenges are how to ensure this ruling is extended to all pensioners in a way that the Aussie government saves money, and how to allow private health insurance payments (from Aussie Insurers) to be made to appropriately qualified medical establishments here. Imagine how much the government would save, and thus lower taxes required!!!
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There is a far more serious issue at hand here.
The various media reports have highlighted that the AEC will be with us in 2015. There are 5 key parts to the AEC - goods, services, investments, labour and capital. Various reports over the last few years have told us of the many changes we can expect. These include, wrongly, that labour (people) will be able to travel freely, companies will be able to easily own and operate businesses in other ASEAN countries (also wrong), investments will be protected (also mainly wrong) and so on.
Some of the changes are already in place (eg lower tariffs on ASEAN goods moving from one ASEAN country to another), while others are supposed to be in place but are not yet (Mutual Recognition Agreements within the Free Movement of Skilled Labour category, and ASEAN ownership of services companies of at least 51 and then 70%). Despite this, various media outlets and government officials have been suggesting Jan 1st 2015 was to start a whole new era.
Business people have been making investment and planning decisions based on what they have been told by the media, government officials, and even some elected ministers (of both sides) for the last 3 years or more. They have made assumptions on how the business environment would operate at a certain point in time. To highlight an example, some factory operators have chosen to establish operations in Thailand or in Cambodia or in Indonesia based on what they have been told the ASEAN and various countries rules would be.
Now we have been told there will be a delay of at least 1 year. This may create serious problems for investors. It will be even worse if some of the countries delay the changes further, or even worse, if the changes are not made in the way they have been portrayed. A clear example of this is that most people think Filippina nurses will be able to move and work in the Medical (Tourism) Industry in Thailand as nursing is one of the 8 professions covered under the Mutual Recognition Agreements, and some providers have made investments in new buildings, equipment and marketing based on this information. The real detail within the Nursing MRA, says only that nurses can travel to other ASEAN countries for the purposes of studying best practices. There is not even any detail within the agreements if such a study tour will require work permits or under what visas.
Some, if not many investors, will be losing considerable amounts of money, and this delay, and lack of certainty, is likely to damage the reputation of Thailand and other ASEAN countries.
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Another mistaken interpretation of the AEC changes.
1. Thailand is already part of the AEC
2. ASEAN citizens can all already travel as tourists without the need for visas
3. The agreement on movement on Goods is already 99% implemented.
This means that there will be no increase to the need for Thai police to speak English in 2015 that are attributable to the AEC.
The articles mistaken assumptions are making people believe something that is not being planned for by any of the ASEAN governments, and thus making people make bad or incorrect decisions for their futures.
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I have been asked to reply to this post by others here to correct some factual errors, and it seems many readers and replies show the same uncertainty about what the AEC will do and what it won't do as the original article writer and the Immigration Bureau.
The Immigration Bureau is preparing to launch a pre-screening system for visitors to Thailand before the end of this year. This crucial step, in addition to equipping immigration officials with foreign-language skills, is part of preparation for the Asean Economic Community (AEC), which will kick off in 2015. .... He said that in order to prepare for the AEC, fluency in English would be a necessary qualification for immigration officers....We will also consider getting officials to learn a third language such as Lao, Cambodia, Mandarin or Japanese depending on the number of visitors from that country," Panu said........
1. The AEC does not start (or kick-off) on any date in 2015 ... many of the sub agreements (such as goods tariff changes and some of the labour Mutual Recognition Agreements) are already in effect (or should be). 2015 is actually the end date by which all changes are supposed to be completed and implemented. Some changes were implemented in 2008.
2. There is no open border concept (like Europe for example) within the AEC plans, so therefore no more or less tourists (or terrorists or criminals) can be expected to visit Thailand starting on Jan 1st 2015 than there is today based on the AEC changes.
3. English is the agreed language of ASEAN, and China and Japan are not in ASEAN, therefore none of the AEC changes will impact the need for Immigration officers to speak more or less of these languages as of 2015.
4. The changes (improvements?) mentioned in the article are needed today to benefit the Thai economy and to do away with corruption - not in 2015 (that is my humble opinion).
5. The benefits and changes within the AEC Concept are mainly provided only to citizens (or juristic persons) of ASEAN countries only.
6. The writer of the article should understand the AEC arrangements better, which would benefit all readers by explaining what the AEC is actually all about. The AEC nowhere talks about open borders, or allowing people to come to Thailand to live or work without the appropriate visas in place.
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PM Prayut reiterates importance of English skills ahead of AEC
in Thailand News
Posted
Dear Nakajima,
I heard ... i heard.....i heard ..............oh dear, ............
I know people that know him and have met with him.
Oh dear oh dear.
The PM is not a stupid guy, and he can speak English for sure.
Oh dear Oh dear - and u think i make this up ........ Abhisit (whom I did meet in person multiple time) was educated in the UK, and everyone knows that, so everyone knew he could speak English very well ... so he did in public because he was confident and sure of what he heard and said.
The PM is just being cautious in the same way I am by not having a meeting in Thai language - I am not 100% sure of what is being said, so better not make any mistakes - i think that is a wise strategy when you are the PM of a country that the whole world is looking at. Putin and others also take this option when on the world stage.
Why would you think I am wasting your time on this....thats insulting, Especially when the part about English was written as an add-on - "fyi" .... the main point was about the AEC changes.
Oh dear oh dear....
Maybe i should just stop using Thai Visa if thats all i get for trying.