ultramarine

This is similar to my situation and probably fairly common As snowbirds, we felt getting a retirement visa was unnecessary and too much trouble since we didn't want to stay the whole year. So how to stay for 4 winter months -- aye, that is the question! Getting a 60 day SETV and then extending it once gets you 90 days. Not bad, but you're flying back home in February. Not an appealing prospect.

Wow. So safe entry services won't touch people flying in from Cambodia? Too bad for me because that's where I'm going in January. I guess I'll just cross my fingers instead. Since it's only my 2nd consecutive entry, I may get off with a formal warning.

Can you apply for a non O retirement visa in a 3rd country like Vietnam? Sounds complicated.

interesting. Maybe different IOs give different suggestions. If you're staying longer than 3 months, then what is the METV for? I don't get it. DTVs are appealing on the surface, but if they reject you for any reason, you lose your money. Not a good deal since they cost a lot. I am of retirement age so I could go that route, but it seems like overkill since I don't want to live in Thailand full time. But 3 consecutive VE60s -- you're in another category. The big leagues!

Lucky you. Well, that's a good reason to spend time in Vietnam. If it weren't for my Thai gf, I likely wouldn't come here anymore. That's the thing. Who else would put up with this nonsense? I wonder if Thailand's unstable political and economic situation is creating an environment where bad decisions are being made that will only hurt the country further. Or maybe it's part of the wave of nationalism that is sweeping the world after covid.

They always find a way to outdo themselves it seems. The e-visa system has made it worse because there is no appeal process and no refunds and embassies can be late in issuing the visa. I had this happen to me with an METV three years ago. They promised a visa turnaround time of 20 business days. I applied 30 days before just to be on the safe side. They issued my visa on Day 28 or something. They failed to deliver on their promise. My flight was leaving on the Monday, and the prior Thursday I had no visa. It just made me despise the whole bloody system.

No. Actually, she never asked me about my plans and how long I wanted to stay. She just checked her computer and saw that my previous entry was part of back to back VE entries. I wonder if it is highlighted in their software to make it easier to spot. The IO seemed inexperienced and maybe not too well trained in the finer points of visas. Some newer software could highlight travelers who have done back to back entries in the recent past.

She looked at my record on her computer (I had a new passport) and said that I had two back to back VE entries in Nov 2024 and Jan 2025 (last winter). This was unacceptable and warned me that in future it would be a problem. She then suggested getting a longer visa such as SETV (!) or the METV. Its as if they have been briefed to look out for back to back VE entries and warn the traveler that this is an inappropriate use of the VE entry.

I just arrived in Thailand this week for my usual 4 month winter stay. I intended to use two 60-day visa exemption entries separated by a week in another SE Asia country. But on arrival at BKK, the IO told me I couldn't use two V-E entries for a 4 month stay as I had done last year. I had to get another visa. When I asked which one, she said the tourist visa. When I told her that would only permit a 60 day stay, she got flustered. I suggested she may have meant the METV visa which allows for 180 days and she nodded her approval. It's all part of the new normal I guess. She wasn't hostile but she was insistent that the V-E was not acceptable for anything longer than 60 days. She did not give me any official warning with the stamp. I suppose my next V-E entry in January I could run into bigger trouble with a formal warning of no more V-E entries or even outright refusal. If this trend continues, it may be time to consider a safe entry service for the second entry. In future, I will consider an METV although I'm no fan of the e-visa procedure. To be honest, I have preferred going with the visa exemption approach in order to avoid dealing with the cumbersome e-visa website and my local Thai embassy. Either way, travel to Thailand will cost more. Like everything else!

Yes, I got the pick-up service in Pattaya. Nice, although it adds an extra hour to the trip once they're done picking up everyone in the van. I stayed in Naklua and was the last to be picked up before hitting the highway so that was better for me -- less time in the van. Agree with the split time approach between two countries to extend the stay without visa hassles. But sometimes you just want to stay put and not have to travel all over God's green acre. Air travel definitely more comfortable than bus or van though.

Yes, I'm getting too old to handle the long minivan trip to the border. Did it last year to Cambo from Pattaya. It was OK and the visa service was good but I'd rather fly someplace esp now that Cambo is off the table. I won't do any 30-day extension this time around to keep things simple. I have previously used the METV a few times for my snowbird winter stays in Thailand but it is getting more expensive (325 CAD/7500 THB) and its harder to justify the cost when you get 60 days for free. With the METV, you still have to pay to go to a border after 60 days anyway. In that sense, even if I had to use safe entry for 4000 thb with two free visa exempt entries, it would still be cheaper than an METV.

OK thanks for clarifying Dr Jack. So it sounds like you haven't changed your basic view. As long as a person spends most of the year outside of Thailand, there should be no problem getting a second visa exemption after a short one week stay (approx) in a neighbouring country. So no safe entry is necessary for someone who only spends a total of 4 months a year in Thailand. And yet Tod Daniels seems to suggest that safe entry IS necessary for near back-to-back visa exemption entries. But maybe I'm reading him wrong. Appreciate your input as always. You and Ubonjoe have been reliable sources of info over the years. I owe you a beer or two.

You sound more cautious these days about the border run via air and the 2nd visa exemption. A couple of months ago, I mentioned that I would enter on a 60 day visa exemption in November and then leave Thailand and go to somewhere like Saigon in January for a week. You thought that would be OK and would not require a safe entry service. Typically only stay in Thailand about 4 or 5 months every winter and have never overstayed. Are you now recommending the use of a safe entry service for those wishing to get a 2nd visa exemption even if being out of country for a week? Thanks.

This makes sense whether I end up staying for 4 months or 5 months. Thanks.

Yes, I guess I was thinking it through with the help of other board members including yourself. Thanks.

Right. If they reduce the 60 day VE to a 30 day VE (unlikely but possible), I can still get the 30-day VE and then extend it for another 30 days. Again, it doesn't make sense to extend the first 60-day VE if only staying in Thailand for 4 months total.

A lot depends on just how long I want to stay -- 4 months or 5 months. If only staying 4 months, then 60-day VE + exit to Laos/Vietnam for at least several days + re-enter on another 60-day VE makes the most sense as it avoids the trip to immigration for the 30-day extension as I would still need to exit the country after the 90 days are up. The 30-day extension only makes sense if I need to stay for 5 months. There's not much difference between 4 and 5 months, so I will likely limit my time to 4 months in Thailand and a week or two in another SE Asian country. The other benefit to a second consecutive 60-day VE is that I won't need to buy a separate disposable onward ticket to present on re-entry as I will already have a return ticket to Canada for March. I will have to have a short-dated onward ticket for the first entry, however. And I will hold the hotel reservation and 20K in cash just to be safe.

OK cheers. "No stated limit" which means take your chances at the border with a grumpy I/O officer who doesn't like the looks of you. Thailand visa policy is a reflection of the concept of impermanence and constant change. I guess we Westerners would do well to embrace it. And be frequent readers of this forum. An Agoda reservation it is then.

OK great. On the accommodation requirement, would this be proof of a paid hotel reservation or would a rental agreement in an apartment suffice? So it seems the informal rule of 2 visa exempt entries per calendar year is still OK and won't raise any suspicions.

Is that a typo "can imagine"? You meant "can't", no? Yes, proof of onward flight. How about 20,000 THB in cash too? Seems they are tightening the screws these days and finding ways to refuse people. Yes, I have stayed between 4 and 6 months every year except during Covid. Hopefully that is still considered OK. I'm just trying to understand the conditions where using border bounce and safe entry companies becomes advisable. Of course, if you've been here for a long time (more than 6 months) with many consecutive visa exempt entries. And they would also facilitate same day re-entry for VE on land borders. If you stay 2 or more days in Laos, then that makes the border bounce minivan companies unnecessary? Thanks again for your advice. You're an all-star.

Thanks. I'm assuming a similar flight to Nakhon Phanom and a couple of nights in Thakhek would also work. I'm not really a fan of Vientiane. If I opted for Saigon, how long a stay would suffice before attempting to re-enter at DMK for another VE stamp?

Wow. I didn't realize they could write a letter in this situation as just an out patient as opposed to something more serious or life-changing. Alas that option isn't open to me. I suppose I am a bit of a digital nomad but don't derive enough of an income from my websites to meet the DTV criteria.

I think Vancouver is more responsive than Ottawa, tbh. Ottawa seems overworked and have missed their own deadlines more than once with me. It's one reason why I'd prefer the VE stamp. But how did you get Bumrungrad to write you a letter? Are you an out patient there?

While I have 800K, I would rather not have to leave it in a Thai bank. Especially since I don't have a Thai bank account and it seems its getting harder to get one. How did you get a DTV? I have heard they have a high rejection rate?

Thanks for the ideas. Canadian winters are best enjoyed while still young. I'm not anymore. It seems that the longer you stay outside of Thailand in between VE stamps, the less likely you are going to run into problems the second time around. A direct correlation maybe. So if I stayed 2-4 weeks in Vietnam or Cambodia, then there would be less need to hire a safe entry company for the second entry. I'm not sure if my gf will go for that, however, Unless I take her along to VN of KH, Wasn't planning on it though. How will you be arranging your visas this winter?