turbo

Try Shan ChaisarinPublic Law & Accounting OfficeI

The lastest law office I'm dealing with was recommended by the Am. Embassy and the woman seems quite resonable. Thai Int Law Consultants tel. 038-421-725. katrena

Anything worth spelling out once; is worth spelling out twice. 

It's a bulls.hit story. 

He was their whipping boy; they got something out of it. And now he's back.

They just didn't figure that anyone would bother reporting the guy after he he was back on the scene.

They're Thais for Chrissakes; stringing people up isnt't rocket science to them.

Doing it successfully is. 

IA

PS. People can be banned from Thailand no problem; read between the lines.

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It is an interesting story. A lot of people seem to be implying the story is not as is being reported. Is all this conjecture, or does anyone have any real insight?? Obviously the story does seem a bit far fetched as stated...... Is it all just made up by the media??

Is it legal for one to do construction repairs and or upgrades to ones own house (leased) without a work permit? Example, replacing a door, pouring a concrete patio, adding a large outdoor planter, building a outdoor barbque enclosure etc. This is a discussion some friends have been having, the common thinking is that it is normally not a problem, but is it actually exempted in the work permit regs......

Another interesting point I don't think anyone has pointed out.... the guy has until 31 August to build out the rest of the complex. That is 17 more units. Sure if you put 15 people on each unit and just multiply you can get in 255 people and try to do it that way, but I just don't see it happening. Not only that these are complex units, basements, glass view to bottom of swimming pool. Just the sheer number makes me think it won't all come together.

Drove by there today and nothing is happening. Time will tell.....

A relative just got back from doing a work project in Hua Hin. He has done projects in Hua Hin and in Pattaya - which is where I live. He says the property market in Hua Hin is just on fire. Properties booked fully up before development is complete, price 3/4 times higher than similar house in Pattaya, etc. etc. etc. Anyone with personal knowledge of the property market there? What is going on? How does it compare with Pattaya, Phuket?

Thats what everybody wants to know - was it mentioned at the auction that people were buying land that had not been split or without a valid chanot?

On the back of the sales brocure in Thai only (as was stated by previous poster) developer is in the process of applying for 'jatsan' (pre-allocated village) - implication, the land will be split in to separate chanotes when this occurs on or before 31-August-05.

The sales note sheet has a payment schedule date: for payments of 30% by Jan 05, then 10% per month -- then 10% on the Transfer date of August 31st which is when you would get the chanote.

Nothing was said at the auction about not being able to do an immeadiate transfer - so this is a great point. If one didn't inquire they would assume the deed is ready for transfer.

The only thing that the auctioneer did say is that he had someone who 'wanted to know this and what about that and what about this?'. As if the person asking didn't trust (oh shame) the developer. The auctioneers advice to the 'doubting thomas' -- don't come (and bid)!

One of the worst ways to buy a property in Thailand (IMHO) is time payment scheme like this (for obvious reasons). If it was me actually buying one, I would insist on paying the 100% on the date when the chanote is actually ready (minus the 250,000 deposit to hold the land) so I can pay the money at the land office and get the deed. Unfortunately I don't think this would have been accepted as the term of payment is set forth in the Auction Day notes.

How old does a Thai citizen need to be in order to acquire land in his/her name? Interested in regards to my Thai child and land ownership.

I was at the auction. The houses went from 5.8 million to 12.1 m. The first 13 were auctioned off with no reserve the last 7 had reserves. The seller ended up selling the last 7 at the same prices as the first 13, ie. he said that he would sell the remaining houses at the market determined rate. I got a call two days after and there were still a few left. The largest house plan was 418 sq. meters, mamoth house on 271 sq wah - went for 12m.

I figure the land over near there would have a market price of about 6m per rai (15000 per wah). I would love to find some right next door for 5,500 per wah, anyone can point me in that direction with specifics please post (so I can go buy some). Once subdivided the land would have a value of about 20000 per wah I think.

The way the thing was presented was that the houses would be sold at about 1/2 market price since they hadn't been built yet. That being said, I think the houses went for about the market price. The prices on the largest units seemed reasonable with construction at about 17k per m2. I didn't notice anything selling at fire sale prices.

I posted some other notes on the auction here:

auction notes

I also noticed a lot of farang couples bidding. I wonder how they indend to take title of the land.

And do what...?? You need to check your facts Mr.Greg. The family have no rights whatsoever regarding this Limited Partnership. They are not on any paperwork and don't even know what our business does!

This would go with the email I received from you personally a few weeks ago where you claim I still need 2 million Baht if a work permit was required. Well, this week I have received my work permit and have a Grand Total of 95 Baht in my bank account until I get paid next week!

Though not an expert, as I don't see Mr. Greg around, let me comment IMHO as follows:

1.) Family. Not a question of integrity of wife. Suppose all is well and she dies in a car accident suddenly. Her 51% of the business must pass on to a person of Thai nationality. If the company has assets this is where problems could arise. In the very least, you know you won't be the one that gets her 51% ownership (being a farang and all).

2.) 2 million bhat. This doesn't refer to the amount in the bank account but the amout of registered share capital.

cheers!

As a reply to Digger's point, from what I've seen a work permit is a good way to go if:

You really have a real office where you do business.

You really have an income from which you can pay yourself 60000 bhat a month.

You really have 4 Thai employees.

You really work in the company.

Bogusing up a work permit from what I've heard is costly and can leave you open to unexpected problems.

As far as the hard to opt out comment, I wasn't talking about costs of closing out the business, I meant you would get special scrutiny after canceling the work permit by the authorities. They would want to ensure that what you were doing before that made you require the work permit you are not longer doing.

Basically what I'm saying is that the only people I've seen go the work permit route were either big company sponsored or doing a real business, such as a gem stone cutter in Bangkok.

Not only is it possible to set up a company with no work permit, it is commonly done.

I think you may be right on the Non B visa, they are cracking down. You need to get the first Non B on the company prior to getting the work permit anyway. They need to scrutinize the company to find out if it is suitable to grant a work permit, another gray area.

The reason for people setting up companies is asset control, whether it be a house, property or small trading business. Normally these people do have a trusted Thai (eg. wife) who can act as a director.

My only recommendation is before getting a work permit, unless you have someone doing it for you, check out what is involved by talking to someone who has one (not done for him by a large company). Once you opt in, it is a hard club to get out of.

expat builders' guide and stories

expat builders' blog

For a different take on building your dream house in Thailand and what you might be up against.

A few years ago I read the book 4000 days by Warren Fellows, or something like that. My 16 year ol daughter read it also. It was quite disturbing first hand account of 10 years spent in a bangkok prison. After doing a seach on the internet (4 years ago) and seeing the prisoners wanted visitors, we did after that go visit two prisoners there. The ones wanting visitors sign up and you can get the names from your embassy.

Whether or not it is on the backpacker circuit, if the people in there want visitors -- by all means go and visit. There are also groups of missionaries that go daily and hold prayer sessions. I think it would be nice if the visitors had read about the prison before so they have a little empathy and don't start out by grilling the prisoner as to if they did it or not.

You have to understand that in the case of many of the drug smugglers, and I'm talking about he ones who did it, they were set up. It is basically a 'tax' that the money men give up these carriers to the police/ so many a year. The police aren't doing brilliant investigation to ferret out these people, a phone call is made to the right person and that is how it goes down. The biggies are fat dumb and happy. Drug smuggling is wrong, the point is that a lot of time the small fries end up doing the most time and the biggies go laregly unscathed.

The prison my daughter visited had been in since he was 20 and he was almost 30. The prisoner I visited had been in about 7 years.

turbo

My Webpage

Btw: from my own personal experience. Being found in an office during office hours can be construed as working.

Now, I would not use this for a visitor, however, for a foreigner who applied for but was not granted, yet, the WP.

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I know it is a grey area, but are there actually cases where people haven't been doing any physical work, ie. just sitting in an office, and got busted?

From my experience, I've heard of bar owners getting busted for hanging a photo (with a ladder, hammer and nails), a guy who had a tour company with about 6 vehicles and some Thai employees was busted for doing some of the driving himself.

What about cases of someone not physically doing any work, but just being on premises.

How would it apply to bar owners for example? I've heard they are fine as long as they don't clear tables or pour beer. Is this correct?

I think this may be a grey area, but I would love to hear any stories about perons being busted for 'non physical' work, ie. sitting in an office.

You might check out my house and surroundings here at expat builders' guide and stories . We've lived in a number of places in Thailand, never in a gated community. The only trouble I've ever had is in this development there were some teenagers who were trying to get into the house next door at 2 AM while the neighbors were still in the house. They were at it for an hour and then the neighbors got up and shooed them away. We basically have a pretty good idea which group it is...

This house is in a moo baan kind of off by itself in a country setting. Now everyone looks out for each other, and we got a dog.

The way I look at it is this: the most dangerous place here in Thailand is probably safer than the safest place back in the states. A gated community isn't necessary if you have a proper permiter wall and a dog. That being said, crime is definitely on the rise in places like Pattaya.

One other note; Thai wife's tend to be very sensitive to crime because up country there is so little. We moved here from a low crime area and the wife was real concerned about crime. We were listing to the Pattaya radio news and there was a story about someone stealing a motorcycle. She said 'see what I mean there'. I thought 'thank god we don't live in Los Angeles'.

Although the penalty for working without a work permit is brutal (ie. don't do it), you need to ask the question about if you will be doing any physical work. Remember you can own a business in the LOL with no problems.

People that I know of that have got busted, a long haul taxi service where the farang was actually doing some of the shuttling himself. A bar owner who hung a picture by himself in his bar using a ladder, hammer and nails.

If your company owns a pizza parlor for example, and you go in to the pizza parlor and sit at the bar and read a newspaper -- everything is fine. You can't clear tables or take money from customers. You also are free to say anything you want to any of the employees, it is physical activity they are looking for.

Normally none of this stuff comes up unless there is a complaint (ie. the pizza parlor across the road). One other thing that is a no no in the case of a complaint is if you are the only director in your company with signatory power. Then at least on paper anyway you must be doing some physical work like signing checks.

If you do need a work permit it means you have to pay a minimum in salaries of about 40,000 bhat per month = about 5,000 bhat/month in taxes + lots of paperwork.

I've also heard this: Once you opt in (for a work permit) it will later be hard to opt out. They will check you extra carefully.

Can you get someone else to do your the physical work part of the duties?

On the expenses of a company, acct = 15,000 + per year for a good one if the company has some assets. I don't know about a virtual office.

One other real nasty is if you need to register for VAT tax. They hit you with this if you have turn over (on paper at least) of > 1.2 m bhat per year. It means doing returns every month and there are a lot of other incremental expenses.

Depending on your situation, if doing a minimal business here I would just recommend avoiding VAT registration and work permit if at all possible.

I know this isn't exactly what you were asking, but I wanted to give my opinion about work permits as it sounds like you are going down that road.